What's so wrong about Barbershop?

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 10:54 PM

Well, it's an old thread, so I'm sure they've all cooled down by now.

I really love barbershop harmony, but I have to say that the element of competition can sometimes be a bit too much, and that competition can make the singing just a bit too "slick" for me. But although I have misgivings about competition, I've heard some wicked good singing at barbershop competitions.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 11:11 PM

You are most welcome, Joe.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Saro
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM

Mr Ted writes "Harmony singing is a social activity, and, though it is a much loved one, it has gone by the wayside, and been forgotten by most folks. In the once-upon-a-time not-that-long-ago, there were Glee Clubs and Singing Societies and Community Choruses, as well as the barroom crooners of the Pious Friends variety. Families used to sing together, unabashedly and even enthusiastically--now, the only place people sing together is in church--"   

But surely not - what about the huge rise in the number of community choirs and singng workshops that seem to be springing up all over the country? I have felt for a long time that some of them are a secular replacement for church. Certainly at our community choir people meet regularly, sing lustily, go away feeling uplifted (well, mostly), dvlop social network etc. We just don't worship anything or anyone in the process.
Saro

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:08 PM

Saro ~

"All over the country"? We mudcatters are all over the world, and for many of us, community group singing unfortunately does seem to be largely a thing of the past. I guess it depends not only upon what country you live in, but what part of the country...

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Saro
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 06:26 PM

Quite right, and apologies PoppaGator! I was referring to the UK, forgetting the "worldwideness" of Mudcat.
Saro

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Keef
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:32 PM

It's American,(see footnote) It's Cheesy.
That's probably why nobody turned up when I put on a show featuring our own quartet and some other stuff.
I did barbershop for about a year, learned heaps.
Just the same as an Accapella concert, it is a passive thing for the audience, making up improvised harmonies is frowned on.
I much prefer the audience in a folk club that will join in and create glorious never to be repeated spontaneous harmony.
There is definitely such a thing as too much rehearsal.

In Australia It's sooo cool to be antiamerican, even though we wear baseball caps on backwards and call each other dude

That's my two bob's worth
Want fries with that?
Keef

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: GUEST,Terry Burns
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 10:53 AM

Barbershop singing should be renamed harmony singing. I started singing just over a year ago and since then have met many friends and enjoyed some great evenings and weekends.
If you haven't even tried it, how do you know if you don't like it? It's definitely musical, sometimes quite lyrical and always challenging.
If you fancy dipping your toe in the water come along to a new singing course in Clifford, starting on Sept 9th. Interested? email [e-mail].

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:29 AM

If you renamed Barbershop singing "Harmony Singing" then no one would know that it was Barbershop Singing, and you'd draw the Sacred Harp Singers, and the Doo-Wop Singers, and the Vocalese singers--all fine folks on their own, but mix them together and you're in trouble.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: GUEST,jim
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:49 PM

ref

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 03:07 PM

The term 'categories' is a very useful word. It allows us to structure our thoughts and activities in practical ways.

As I said WAY back up ↑ there, and M. Ted indicates, you can't fit everything under one roof. We NEEDS ways to refer to subsets of "music", so that folks can discuss 'Barbershop' separately from Scared Harp..etc.

(and yeah, that DOES mean we need to be ably to refer to 'traditional folk' without having 'singer/songwriter' get stuffed in by those who have no idea of historical perspective!)

Barbershop is a very narrow category with tightly controlled rules & competitions and musical content. And in MY narrow view..*grin*...it is nice, but it don't belong in a 'folk' forum at all!

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 06:29 PM

Why don't they ever seem to sing any songs with any meaningful content?

As people like Cooper Boyes and Simpson or Artisan, or the Voice Squad have demonstrated it is quite possible to have outstanding harmony singing while singing stuff that actually means something.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: GUEST,Will Lever
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:56 PM

Nothing wrong with it - it's pleasant enough but is very similar to cathedral choirs singing Christmas carols it's just musical wallpaper. It just doesn't get me emotionally and a few minutes later I can't remember what it was about nor the tunes - and I think that is part of why traditional folk singers and musicians are indifferent to it - it is not unpleasant - but the artifice involved is it's main purpose and the story and human emotional interaction with music and words is secondary, if there at all. As a genre a bit closer to classical music with a bit of blues/jazz scales. Which I know appeals to many people but is not my thing. Really what I am trying to say is why I personally prefer traditional folk song - which is more difficult without getting involved into what constitutes 'folk'.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:04 PM

If you have ever seen "The Music Man," on film or stage, the Buffalo Bills were a grand example of the possibilities inherent in the form. My two sons immediately liked the sound when they first heard it, at ages 5 and 7 - they still do.

For me, it has little to do with the get-up, which is obviously meant to evoke turn-of-the-century (19th/20th)spring and summer imagery, with the stripes, white linen pants and boaters, etc. I just like the sound of good harmony, whether in voice or in, for example, a brass choir or wind or string ensemble. The sound is more than the sum of its parts. It's not for everyone, and seems very dated and treacly for many, but I still like to listen, now and then.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:20 PM

You're being ironic, again, McGrath--

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:28 PM

Not so. An difvcourse that should have been Coope, Boyes and Simpson. Sound like a firm of lawyers. Or rather they don't sound like a firm of lawyers, but the name does.

Barbershop always sound to me like a musical instrument with very interersting possibilities being used to play music that doesn't even begin to open up those possibilities. A grand piano playing chopsticks.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 03:25 PM

I don't know--I'm not familiar with any of those artists, so, rather than doing something of value this afternoon, I googled them--checked the lyrics, listened to a couple tunes, and I'm not seeing any great depth of meaning--typical folkie stuff, which is fine for them that likes it, but don't kid yourself into thinking that it means much more than the usual barbershop repertoire-

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 04:04 PM

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "depth of meaning". Myself I'd think this qualifies: Coop Boyes and Simpson singing Lay Me Low.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:26 PM

What's "meaningful" mean, anyway?

To me, much of the purely-traditional folksong favored by many of our brethern hereabouts is pretty shallow in lyrical content, especially in comparison to much of the recently-written stuff (e.g., mid-20th-century acoustic "singer/songwriter" material) that they reject.

The "s/s" stuff I like most is, not surprisingly, the product of artists of my own approximate age (Dylan, Paxton, Hunter/Garcia, Jackson Browne, Randy Newman, Lucinda Williams, Smokey Robinson, our buddy Bruce, etc., etc.). No one of the younger generation(s) has really caught my fancy, but then I'm not listening to very much of their output.

I wonder if the appeal of much really old material has anything to do with "meaning," as much as the simple appeal of evoking an earlier age.

Barbership certainly evokes an earlier, and presumably "simpler," era...but maybe it's not earlier enough (far enough into the past) to have the same appeal as, say, a Child ballad.

And, to clarify things further, I have noting againt "meaningless" songs per se. There are songs I really love with nothing but nonsense lyrics; I do not fully understand why I like 'em so much, but whatever the reasons might be, they obviously must be purely musical.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:28 PM

The line "When the emptiness eats me" together with the rotting corpses reflect a kind of depth, but not the sort that the artists may have intended.

Subject: RE: What's so wrong about Barbershop?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:44 AM

I would assume that that was indeed one of the meanings intended to be understood.