BS: Peace in Ireland?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:48 AM

Dunno how I came across this - I was looking for something completely different but - hey, these things happen!

Well, over a year later. What is going on in the region? Have any of the suggeted obstacles to peace reared their heads? Did the UVF, or anyone, not give peace a chance? I have heard nothing of guns and bombs for a long time but I am in England. What is it like for the people there?

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM

The past five months has seen neither side preferring to give way on policing, the DUP want a return to pre-peace policing, Sinn Fein won`t go with that, result stalemate.
As I said in an earlier Thread the seats are not warm yet, too early to say everything is running smoothly, not that it matters the assembly is only a talking shop with little powers, the landlords in England are the masters and if the assembly continues to play eyeball games, Westminster and Dublin will run the show.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 08:08 AM

Dissident Republican groups are said to be more active than they have been for years.
They keep trying to murder police, mainly using roadside IEDs.
It is only luck that no one has been killed.
Such devices are a real threat to local people as well as the intended victims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7719790.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM

Bummer :-( Hope the peace rides out the troubles. Ard is quite right of course, it is the landlords, or moneymen, that ae running the show. It is us poor buggers on the ground that pick up the pieces.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 09:32 AM

Not just dissident Republicans.

UDA statement vows to defend 'Britishness' :

"In a report released yesterday (Nov 10th) on paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland, the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) said the UDA was genuinely committed to a political path, but that it was hampered by a serious split within its ranks.

The southeast Antrim "brigade" of the UDA, which broke away from the main organisation, was now properly regarded as a separate organisation."

"Fire damage at GAA premises may be revenge for attacks on Orange halls"

Things could still go pear-shaped...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 10:08 AM

Thanks McGrath.
Your first link includes the statement that only "non violent" action will be taken by them.
The second link is about alleged arson in tit for tat response to the other side's alleged arson.

My link was about multiple attempted murders by bombing and shooting, and actual murders.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 11:02 AM

McGrath thanks for pushing Keith in another direction, has to be told first.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 01:52 PM

the man from belfast says no,

it's like the chours to the wild rover

and it's no nay never, no nay never no more.

but I can't wait until peace in N.I comes, but you can't have peace when the people out there are waving their flags- union jack/tricolour ones from their houses.

but until that day comes because it is illegal to do so, then peace will truely come to NI

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:51 PM

I don't think there is any reason to think that the breakaway UDA "now properly regarded as a separate organisation" will feel bound by any pledges of "non-violence" by th Official UDA, any more than breakaway Republicans feel bound by anything Sinn Fein or the IRA says.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 03:03 AM

I do not understand Ard's last post at all, but he is probably accusing me of partiality.
If so he is wrong. I have always had equal contempt and disgust for ALL the paramilitaries. Both sides.

In McGraths first link there is not even a THREAT of violence, not EVEN from the breakaway faction.
The second link is about two incidents of arson, but only in reprisal for the burning down of Orange halls.

The Idependent Monitorig Commission understandably singled out the Republican paramilitaries because they are planting bombs in the streets and killing by shooting.

Or have I missed something?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 05:53 AM

What a waste of time replying to KOH, in one of your Threads you were caught out impersonating I thought shame would have confined you to the lower regions, killing on the street?,reading todays Irish News it is reporting on a trial involving the death of a 15 yearold Catholic boy beaten to death by a Protestant mob in Paisley`s constituency of Ballymena.
The UDA instead of issuing statements on their loyalty to the crown should be addressing the drug culture, their main means of finance, and also the issue of their weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:04 AM

Re the impersonating,yes and I stand by it.
I made Oakville tell the truth, except that the real Oakville felt no shame for the lies he told.
When the victim of a lying attack by a Guest, why should I not fight back when the mods did nothing?
Presumably you support the lying Oakville.
Tell us why.

Re the violence you refer to, yes and I abhor it too.
But I abhor it from both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:15 AM

While people keep dredging up the past there is no hope of peace. Either in NI or here:-(

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:28 AM

But I abhor it from both sides.

Precisely.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 02:13 PM

don't argue with these people, I tried and got nowhere, and then you wonder why there is trouble in NI, when some people that live there and the south don't listen to reason

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:02 AM

I found that episode of Columbo that was troubling my memory earlier in the thread. It was called The Conspirator and featured a bravura performance by New Zealand actor Clive Revill as the Irish writer/IRA man.

The guy who wrote it - it says on the official Columbo fans website - it was his favourite episode.

As for the other business, if we both faced the facts, England and Ireland are changing so fast that I don't think whatever we end up with - either of us will be able to recognise our own countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:43 AM

tell that to people of Ireland (North/South).

but they don't listen

as you say there will no peace until the people forget about the past and just look towards the future

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:45 AM

andf about the ira

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:38 AM

What is there to understand ? It is simple, The party Arthur Griffiths started (Sinn Fein) for the removal of the British presence in Ireland became a British party. Salaries paid by Britain, they sit in a British assembly and they administer British law in a part of the United Kingdom.

The PIRA were once independent to Sinn Fein. Gerry Adams Sinn Fein's party leader worked his way into the role of commander- chef of the Provisional IRA and the tail began to wag the dog.

2005 saw the PIRA hand their weapons in and stand their volunteers down and apologise to the families who lost loved ones. In any conflict over the centuries those acts are seen as surrender,can it be called any other name ?

Sinn Fein now sit in Stormont, the home of their masters since the 1920's. They sit under 84 permanent memorials to Loyalists and Unionists. They sit on the Policing board. Yes the same force they accused of involvement in murder, collusion and torture.

The unionists/loyalist have always only wanted one thing. A return of Stormont, the Union Jack flying over it and British rule. They received all of that and a little bonus was the surrender of republican arms and their mandate for war.

None of the unionists in Stormont make requests for the loyalist paramilitaries to disarm. The following organisations are fully armed the UVF, UDA, RHC, RHD, UFF, LVF,PRF and ULF. In fact the loyalists have so many weapons they are exchanging them to drug dealers in Limerick and Dublin for drugs !

The unionists in government make no request to the loyalist groups for weapons because the state has always had an armed paramilitary force to call on. The B' Specials, RUC, UDR and RIR.

Regarding republican dissent groups, RIRA, CIRA and eirigi pose no threat. All this talk about going to whack a policemen, it will never happen because they know the force would wipe them out overnight. A 72 million pound MI5 interrogation centre building in Antrim lying empty. The new ruling of 42 day detention for suspects. All of this would kick in and they know it.

The ball is well and truly over the wall in the North of Ireland. Possibly if Britain stopped sending them handouts people might want to do something for themselves.

The British government have to be admired here, they played the oldest trick in the book and Gerry Adams accepted it, "DIVIDE and CONQUER".

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:44 AM

tso why don't the IRA   and the republican/loylist want this all on photograpghs then, and then the rest of the world will know that the wepoones have been haded in, I mean it's justhearsy, until we get real proof that thishas happens abouty the weapons then we can't beleive it, until the republicans/loyists terriosts groups say us edvidance that this has happened, it like a fart in the wind.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:30 AM

Goatfell, there can never be photographs of the weapons being destroyed. Understand it would be on the front of every loyalist Christmas sold on the Shankill Road in December.They sell Christmas cards with the five catholic men shot dead in Graham's bookmakers on the front. Two men of the cloth were there, they said they saw it along with two Americans, a Canadian and three Europeans. So the fact it occurred is not in question. Glad I am not downwind of your fart.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:39 AM

'The British government have to be admired here, they played the oldest trick in the book and Gerry Adams accepted it, "DIVIDE and CONQUER".'

You make it sound as though the English want something other than the Irish of every persuasion to sod off. Stop killing each other, and stop involving us.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Proud son of Armagh
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:36 PM

"What have I now? said the fine old woman.
What have I now? this proud old woman did say.
I have FOUR green fields; one of them's in bondage
In strangers' hands who tried to take it from me,
but my sons have sons as brave as were their fathers.
My fourth green field WILL bloom once again, said she."

- Well said, Tommy. Well said, indeed.

A NATION ONCE AGAIN!

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 03:58 AM

Fine words, sadly the days of several thousand supporters singing it loudly at a protest rally are over.

I often wonder, when Sinn Fein attend a cross border meeting of Dail Eireann and the British Northern Ireland Assembly, who do Sinn Fein speak for ? is it the Irish or the British.

Well Sinn Fein are a British political party now. Can anyone recall the last time they heard British Sinn Fein call for a united Ireland ?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 04:18 AM

'Can anyone recall the last time they heard British Sinn Fein call for a united Ireland ?'

I dunno about that, but God knows I've heard plenty of English people of every political persuasion saying, why don't the Irish sort themselves out?

The fact is that there ARE a lot of your countrymen who feel vehemently that Irish Republic that came out of 1916 and the civil war isn't what they want to be part of.

So if everybody is going to be kept happy - you HAVE to come up with something else - something that is inclusive of everybody's traditions and beliefs.

If you want a united Ireland - the best thing would be to unite. If you just want to go on whingeing because the world doesn't exist in quite the way you would like it ordered - you'd better teach the next generation the words of Four Green Fields and start digging up the rifles.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:36 AM

Unionists will NEVER fully accept nationalists in government. The term "I wouldn't have a catholic about the place" still holds firm in many places.

The armed struggle is over, that is fact. There are a lot of sore republicans out there who placed their faith in Sinn Fein only to see them do a complete U turn on just about everything they once stood for.

It won't go back to war, but the fear of republican facing republican in a fight is a reality.


It really is very fucked up.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:11 AM

'It won't go back to war, but the fear of republican facing republican in a fight is a reality.'

please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:22 AM

Sinn Fein, CIRA, RIRA and eirigi are brewing to face eachother down at street level. It's at a point were someone will either get whacked or die as a result of a street fight and then it will boil over.

Republicans cannot accept so-called republicans sitting on the policing board and working as British ministers. It is too bitter a pill for many to swallow.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:30 AM

yes there can, just take a photo of them being distroyed I mean, a pile of them and then another one being distroyed, I mean they can do it with cars and other things then why not weapens

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM

and who metioned anything about Christmas cards because I didn't

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:33 AM

or else you can make a film of them being destryed.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:44 AM

http://englishrussia.com/images/estonian_customs/1.jpg

this is the russians doing it, and I had a look for photos in the image part of Google and I put in the words IRA WEAPONS DESTROYED and there was none, just hearsay.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:07 AM

Goatfell, please use your energy into getting the loyalists to disarm.
It was me mentioned loyalists putting a picture of PIRA disarming on their Christmas card, no one said you did.

Are you saying the PIRA did not disarm ? are you saying they still hold arms ? Is the words of those respected individuals present at the destruction not enough for you ?

Better still, if you have nothing constructive to add, why not go and get ready for your tablets. Or have an early night in your straightjacket.
Bye bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:25 AM

Well the reply to that is I just hate Republican/loyist terroist groups, and please I'll wait for your strightjacket, at lest I have the guts to become a member why don't you, or you like the terroists groups just a coward.

ah but men can lie, God doesn't, and I hope for your sake the Loylist don't find out where you or your family live or find out if that is your real name or not, maybe it isn't.

but then who is to say that you're lying

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:26 AM

oh just one final thing, that there will never be peace in Ireland when you have dickheads like you

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:28 AM

still you haven't answered the question he the IRA destroyed their weapons, as I say all humans on this planet lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:57 AM

Hey people - How can we expect peace in the province if we can't achieve it here? No need for insults from either side of the debate please. If you cannot be civil then please say nothing!

Interesting points about Sinn Fein changing their stance. Now, where else have I seen that recently. Let me see, Hmmmm, Ah - New Labour! That's it. The trouble is with political parties is that is what they do. Anything to gain power. And whoever you vote for, the government always gets in:-(

I also think it is pretty much the case, as I said over a year ago, that no-one wants to take on these problems. Southern Ireland is basking in Euro culture, why would they want to take on these problems? England certainly don't want to rule a province that costs more to police than anywhere else. Maybe self governance is the answer?

As to encouraging the British government to get the Unionist parties to disarm - Many of us have already tried Comrac. I did not get a reply from my MP, but neither did I expect one. Where gangs of criminals from all parts of the UK can carry arms with impunity why do you think that Whitehall will teat the criminals in the north of Ireland any diferetly?

Now, do we have a picture of what the peace is like yet? Tentative to say the least? What is anyone doing about it?

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 12:21 PM

well I'll be civil and say thasme of the things that I said were wrong, but as I said that the IRA haven't any proof only hearsay, so why can't people not give a simple answer to that, I mean it doesn't take someone either with a camera or cine camera to take photies/flim of the procceddings does it, I mean until ALL terrorists groups in not only Ireland but all over the world we can't be certain that this really took place, I mean I can turn around a say that I jumped over the moon or I have swim the English channel, and just because some person says 'aye I was there went it happened. you just can't believe it.

I'm not saying that they didn't/did destory their weapons but until there is soild proof, I take that staement with a pinch of salt.

that's all

Tom Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 01:29 PM

'so-called republicans '

that's an unworthy smear. Gerry Adams and his like donated the best years of their youth to internmant camps like Long Kesh.

I am sorry to hear that they are not widely respected amongst Republicans. English people feel bitter about all the stuff that went down when he was whatever he was for the provisional IRA. so he would seem to be enjoying the worst of both worlds.

Whilst I am sure that there are so called protestant Loyalists quite as intractable and unpleasant as you say, I have met several whilst running folk clubs and giving guitar lessons who have been really nice guys. the nice guys must be in there somewhere, on both sides - and they should make the agreements, then send the arseholes packing.

A United Ireland is something worth trying for. perhaps thats what they should call the new country, in remembrance of all the ones who never got to see it:-

United Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM

Or the "Irish Union"

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 04:47 PM

Just for a moment imagine you felt in your heart you were prepared to take uparms for what you believe in.

Everyone in the community you live supports this cause. You open the Republican News and Sinn Fein tells you what has been going on in every nationalist community in the North of Ireland and how British occupation is wrong and it's police force are responsible for murder in nationalist areas and the unionist stormont government must be smashed.

You are 22 years of age and become involved. You receive a prison sentence of 16 years. You join the dirty protest to obtain Political Status in the H blocks. You don't leave your cell for five years (you receive no visits from friends or family).

That was a long time ago, you gave your youth, your freedom and a relationship to that cause you believed in. Now Sinn Fein don't want to know you, they call you a dinosaur. They have become part of the very system you fought against and they admired you for, they now sit on a British policing board and tell nationalists to welcome these police officers into your life, even join them.

Yes the very same police officers that held you for seven days and tortured you into signing a confession for things you had nothing to do with, (the word of two senior officers was enough to give you seven years for membership.How can you support these very same officers who searched your home, Spat on your childs pillow, passed a happy 30 minutes together searching your daughters bedrooms while they were present and not allowed to leave, and called them and your wife whores.

Sinn Fein don't want ex-prisoners in the party,they want "clean skins", great to see young people with degrees doing well for themselves in the party, but they are not republicans, and have no idea of recent history.

Peace will come to Ireland, but it will come through a united Europe with token borders, not at the hands of the British, or their "puppets in power" British Sinn Fein.

The fight is not out of the Irish nation, it's like a long term relationship you have been in and just found out the person you thought you knew and trusted,turned out to be a lying, cheating bastard.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:27 PM

Comrac, do you want another generation going through what you suffered? Sinn Fein are not the British puppets in power, they are in fact distrusted and disliked by the English - apart from the very unelectable left wing elements of the English system.

I suspect SF is making the deals it feels it has to make - the best it can make. Exploring the situation and, wresting as much power as the interstices of the system offer. And there many such interstices in any democratic system.

In truth, was the armed struggle doing anything except screw up peoples lives?

The first time in England we knew that SF represented more than a small outlaw element (that's what the media told us) was when Bobby Sands won that election. There was no arguing with the results of the democratic process.

Democratic process proves the point much more potently than the bomb and the bullet.

Life is a disillusioning business. I gave most of my life to trying to find some small place in English folk music. Folk music rampant is stuff that people don't watch on BBC2, BBC4, or listen to very much. Dance tunes that people don't dance to. Songs with tunes that no one in the street knows, with choruses that bore more thoroughly than the bloody boring verses.

My struggle was a failure. It cost me much more than I can ever admit - moneywise, relationship wise, family wise, every bleeding which way.... at least you seem to have a movement with members you can relate to.

If you take up arms, theres no guarantee of winning. That's where bravery comes in.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:53 PM

Logic in your words WLD. At least our folk music won't let us down !

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:13 PM

Sorry to hear what you went through, Comrac. My Dad and his family came here from Poland after WW2. His parents were Zachary Polakow, from Kropotkin in Russia and Elizabeth Federow from Bialystok in Poland. They lived in Russia when my Dad and his younger sister were born. then, during one of Stalins purges, my grandad Zachary was interened in a prison camp for being a Russian Orthodox priest.

Grandma Elizabeth was evicted from the house and told, as a foreign national, to leave Russia with not a penny to her name, a young son and a baby daughter. She made her way back to Poland, living off what she could find and sleeping in hegerows at night. They were eventualy reunited when Zachary was freed and joined her in Bialystok.

Then came the Germans. They destroyed most of the city and turned where they lived into a gheto for Jews and dissidents. They somehow survived that until Rusia changed sides and threatened to annexe eastern Poland. Caught between two evils they could do nothing but leave their home, land and families to start a new life, first in Italy and then in England.

The war that cost them everything was as a result of politics. The stupidity of politicians. Maybe even the idea of a united Europe with token borders? Did they blame anyone? The Russians? The Germans? Funily enough, no. They made a good life here. Zachary died of a lung disiese, possibly brought on by conditions in the Soviet labour camp, in 1964. Elizabeth lived until she was well into her 80s and loved England as her home. My Dad is, thankfully, still with us at 85 and has the most optimistic attitude I have seen on anyone.

OK - The British did some awful things in Ireland. Don't forget it. You will never forget what happened to you. But until you can put it behind you, as millions before you have, and look to the future instead, what chance is there of peace? As for Sinn Fein. Well, they are politicians. A very easy scapegoat and one whom I suspect have done more good than you will ever admit to. Why replace the politicians who are local to you and did fight for your rights with a beurocratic and distant European model? Like I said before, whoever you vote for the government always gets in.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:35 PM

Interesting and well written account there David el Gnomo, thanks for sharing with us. After reading it the words of my old man came into my head, "There is always someone worse off than yourself".

It is hard to believe what those people went through during the European war, and even worse to think it happened in living memory.

Old men start them, young men die in them.

Good nght and have a great week.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

That is the differance between Scotland and Northern Ireland, I vote for a party that wants Scottish Freedom from Westminster, but unlike NI we theSNP don't want any weapons involoved, because we have seen the things that were going on in NI.

weapons out of politics

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:03 PM

Thank you, Comrac. Hope it helps to bring you peace. If everything else fails, rely on hope!

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:31 AM

A report from Queen's University, Belfast.
The author of the report, Professor Orla Muldoon, from the University of Limerick, said some things had remained the same.

"As you might expect, Catholics in Northern Ireland are more likely to describe themselves as being Irish, while Protestants are more likely to describe themselves as British," she said.

Almost two-thirds of those who responded to the survey identified themselves as either British Protestants or Irish Catholics, she said.

"There was, however, an increase in the number of people who identified themselves as being Northern Irish, with around one in four opting for this label, compared to around one fifth in previous surveys," she added.

Within the Northern Irish group, about a third described themselves as being equally British and Irish.

"They did not see Britishness or Irishness as being mutually exclusive and rejected the notion that these identities are opposites.

"That indicates a shift away from the traditional national and religious identities that underpinned the Troubles," she said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7760240.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Stu
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 05:22 AM

"Sinn Fein are not the British puppets in power, they are in fact distrusted and disliked by the English - apart from the very unelectable left wing elements of the English system."

I'm not so sure about this - Mo Mowlem certainly didn't distrust or dislike SF and I'm not sure everyone in England thinks like this (speaking as a member of the unelectable left). Truth is, here in England we've been on the arse end of a 30-year propaganda campaign and a large number of people don't see the other side of the story (and until I came here and met people like Divis neither did I).

What happened in the North was a war; I've known people from both sides of the conflict and there is no doubt that's how it was viewed. Building peace means talking to people whom you might not ordinarily have wanted to even look at, but there it is.

Comrac: Take some heart that I think your story is beginning to get through to the British public at large. Recent films and articles in the papers are beginning to tell a side of the story people have not been able to engage with before, and this process will continue as the years progress. Now is the time for a peaceful route to a united Ireland, best of luck in achieving it. It will happen eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 07:01 AM

Thanks stigweard.

There still remains a number of things that need addressed and are being ignored. This week we saw a number of primed bombs discovered in a loyalist area. The police said they belonged to a Loyalist paramilitary group.

The first minister is yet to put pressure on loyalist paramilitary groups to disarm. Unionists just put the boot into republicans. I think it is safe to say Sinn Fein are now out of the equation as republicans. No one can believe how they were so manipulated over the past few years.

Divide and conquer is what I call it. British Sinn Fein are being pressed at every corner and folding to every demand of unionism. Yes people are moving on, but to see Sinn Fein slap the backs of their buddies on the policing board is hard to watch. Policing is still an issue. The Special Branch and Special Powers act are still in place and the memory of their deeds towards the nationalist community are still fresh in the minds of many in this community.

The world is changing, Korea and China are becoming world powers and Europe will at some point have to stand as one to compete. When this happens borders will fall. If people believe British Sinn Fein will ever fight to achieve unity of the island, they are misguided.

At the Anglo- Irish meetings in Dublin and Belfast it is no longer Westminster that speaks on behalf of British interests in Ireland, it´s British Sinn Fein. Well after all they pay their wages and they sit in a British Assembly.

British Sinn Fein are now being taken to task at community level by a new group called Eirigi. This group is democratic and although small in number I feel they are the only voice of Republicanism in Ireland today.

To be honest, many have been sickened by the approach taken by British Sinn Fein and simply don´t care anymore. Just for a moment imagine the Labour Party in Britain turned it´s back on every principal it once stood for and implemented the policies of the BNP. That is what it amounts to.