Help! Open Stage and C**p performers

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:36 PM

Hi started singing and playing about three years ago here in the UK
I was lucky enough to find a local pub The Tap and Spile in Grimsby.
Here there is a monthly open mike and the landlord pays for avery proffesional sound guy to make us all sound the best we can.
I have sat through some prety rough performances and I have given worse ones.
I have seen some of the best players/singers around here crash and burn.
But this is one of the finest most helpful and encouraging bunch of people you could ever hope to meet.
I have also been lucky enough to be allowed to play at the recently renamed Faldingworth LIve.
Again great bunch of supportive and generous folks.
But the people at Faldingworth pay to get in.
It is a concert style club. most of the people attending travel a fair old way to get there(For the UK).
So the guy that runs it has to maintain a higher standard and (apart from me) he does that very well.
Think you gotta decide which you want your event to be and what you need to acheive.
Then take the plunge and go for the one or the other.
I do realise how lucky I have been falling in with peopel who care enough about music and their fellow human beings to give generously of their time and experience.
I hope that it is the same all over the world because it is a great way to make sure we keep music live.
Cheers Tim

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM

Just put up a sign that says you don't take no fish of any sort, carp or otherwise. That oughta' do it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM

Tim theTwangler: Excellent post. I cut my teeth on the coffee house scene. People were very good to me and I'll never forget that.
Most clubs I've attended start the night with an open stage and the "Feature" takes over after the break. I've gone home after the third song of some feature performers but have never walked out during the opening acts unless it was time to tune up.
I just love to watch people, early in their careers and track their progress through the years. There will always be some who disappoint me but I don't think they should be besmirched for not living up to my expectations. As for thinking they're better than they are .... hmmm!
Guilty, Your Honour. (aren't we all?)

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:39 PM

I have problems with stage fright if I'm in front of someone that's hearing me for the first time. I've been called above average, but I can't get over thinking that I'm just...crap. Then again, I have low self-esteem when it comes to music. :/

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM

Oh, I think we'd have guessed that.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,dax
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:19 PM

I can't believe some of the postings on this thread! We all have to start somewhere and most are scared shitless at the time. We can't help but sound like crap at first. With encouragement most will improve as they gain confidence, but if some asshole shoots them down they will probably just give up. Folksongs by their very name are songs of the people and the roots of the music is neither professional nor polished. Much traditional music has been preserved over the years by people singing for the love of song. Today it seems more motivated by greed and and over inflated egos.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Janie
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:40 PM

Glad I saw this. I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback. After reading through the majority of these posts, I now know not to do it.

Sheesh.

Janie

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:05 PM

Janie - I don't know where you are, but I don't think you should give up on open mics, not yet at least. Victory Music, a non-profit acoustic musician's association in the Seattle/Tacoma area of Washington State runs several open mics in the area. As the term implies, they are open to anyone. One of the most satisfying things is to see people improve through this experience, from very scared amateurs to become very professional level performers. This is the way to do it.

We are a very friendly and encouraging group of musicians, and our open mics are characterized by having good listening audiences. In addition, the contacts with other musicians can be very helpful in developing performance skills and later in getting gigs.

Oh yes, we have had our share of truely awful performers, but they don't usually stay around, even though we try to treat everyone well. We have a good community of people who are very encouraging and helpful.

So give it a try.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM

Well said, Stewart:
                   People have a tendency to say things here that they wouldn't dare say at a performance. They're just venting and I'm sure even the scariest folks here would be ever so polite at an open mike. Particularly if you appeared nervous. I really like the idea of folks learning how to use a P.A. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

The only 'good' thing about crap performers getting spots is that it CAN encourage some one else to 'Have a Go' !

For a moment there I thought you were talking about teenagers with acne, Leadfingers :-)

But actually, you make a valid point. Usually the first time I go anywhere new (session, etc.) I feel a bit apprehensive about what sort of standard the 'regulars' are, in case they're all brilliant and much better than me. If they were, I might be a bit scared of performing in front of them.

But usually what happens is that there are some people who aren't really that good, which gives me confidence that I'll be accepted OK.

From that point of view, I guess it's good that there are people around who aren't very good but don't realise it, or maybe they just don't care what other people think.

But letting these people perform a floor spot is a different issue - they shouldn't, IMO.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM

Dax is right about newcomers starting out who should be encouraged and nurtured but there are people around who have been c**p for forty years and never seem to get any better. The heart sinks when you see them walk in!

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:29 AM

Glad I saw this. I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback. After reading through the majority of these posts, I now know not to do it.

Sheesh.

Janie
Dont you dare give up without trying.
If is your first time prepare well as you can.
When you get on the stage dont be rushed but be tuned up and ready to roll.
Say hello and see how it goes.
Even the experts on hear wouldnt lynch a girl on her forst attemt.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,HW
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:34 AM

OK - a few points that I'd like to make about my view on the subject. They are only my views, of course and I'm not trying to criticise anyone else's perspective but ...

1. 'Open mike' (or 'singers night' as it would more usually be known amongst the British folk venues) means anyone can have a go. People attending know that, or if they don't, then they should be informed. Therefore as audience members they are expecting to take the good with the bad.

2. People's opinion of what is awful varies. Me - I can't stand flash guitarists who concentrate on their playing at the expense of the sense/words/projection of the song. But I can happily listen to any number of unaccompanied ballads sung by people who may not hold a tune great, or structure their breathing perfectly, but who can nonetheless convey the soul of the song and their love of it. (I'm in a minority, and I know it, but it makes a point!)

3. As has been pointed out, everyone has to learn. Doesn't matter how much you practice at home, it's fundamentally different performing to an audience, and No-one will get it right first (or third or twentieth) time. I can afford to look sympathetically on beginners cos I've been there myself. And so can almost everyone I talk to.

4. I've seen some of our most revered performers have a dreadful time. Sometimes it's caused by nerves that you spend a lifetime fighting, sometimes there are outside influences distracting you. Sometimes it's just plain goblins at work. If it can happen to them it can happen to us, too.

5. These evenings don't often occur in isolation. They are generally a regular event with at least a core of regular attendees. That means that a particular person's stage performance is only a part of what they contribute. I don't expect my friends to attain some pre-specified standard in any skill before they can be my friends. I like them for who they are. And any organisers who are worried about the standard of performers might remember that the other club members may not be expecting to be amazed ... they might just enjoy each others company.

6. Sometimes 'crap' perfomers astound you and come out with a real gem. I've seen it happen and it's given me more pleasure than yet another beautiful rendition from the best singer in the room every time!

7. If you don't like the prospect of potentially having to hear less than perfect performances, then don't go to an 'open mike'. Go to a concert instead. But don't deny the people who enjoy the format the opportunity to do so. And allow that the people who return to the 'Open Mike' may not share your aversion to the differing standards they find there.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM

I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback.

If you do get feedback, try moving the mic away from the speakers :-)

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM

There have been a lot of scathing comments in this thread about 'crap' performers.

This seems insulting - if someone who happened to be better than you described you as 'crap', I daresay you might be offended.

I would never dream of describing some of the poor performers at the sessions I go to as 'crap'. Even though some of them aren't very good, at least they have a go and can be entertaining in their own way.

Shouldn't we brilliant performers show them more tolerance?

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:02 PM

Erm... what's with this 'we' all of a sudden?!!

;o)

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

Why, is there only one of us then Bernard? :-)

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

Scrump: I think a few of us have tried breathing a little tolerance into this thread. Thanks for joining in.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

I only been doing this about three years.
All the people I hear who are great with the instruments they play
Seem to have at least twenty years of experience under their belts.
The majority of them are helpful and will find something kind to say after the latest disaster and are well worth listening too.
I do not however expect them to stop enjoying their evening out to wet nurse me through my trauma and if you do keep bothering someone who is initialy pleasent and helpful you may find that their attitude cools somewhat the more of their time you take up.
I have noticed that the more I play in public places the more I come to realise that the performers I look up to and admire make mistakes of their own.
I would hate to be one of those really good performers who have no time or patience with the begginers of this world who then step up to the mike and errrrrr are less than the perfection they believe themselves to be.
SOrry going of topic will bugger of now gotta singaround to go to.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Girl Friday
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM

I've read most of the postings on this thread. Yes, thank heavens the voice of reason has surfaced. May I come in on a few points here... My Club would not survive if everyone who plays didn't pay!
Not everyone is top quality - they'd be playing elsewhere if they were, and getting paid for it.
We have a guy- he's only allowed to sing on singer's nights. He's so bad he's become a cult figure.
My duo TDL are often thought c**p, but we too are a cult, and are constantly surprised when our songs go down well. We were interviewed on local radio today, because they had heard about us.
These open mic/ singers nights are just that. You never know who may turn up, and good, bad, or indifferent, they all deserve a hearing without the organiser's ego getting in the way.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Stewart
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:09 PM

This reminds me of an open mic several years ago. A young fellow was up flailing away at his guitar unmercifully and hollering at the top of his voice. It was BAD, and I moved to the back of the room to get as far away from the noise as possible. I then turned and rolled my eyes at my friend Jim, one of the long-time open mic regulars. Jim then said,"you know, this is an open mic and we have to give everyone a chance." With that remark, I knew he was right. Fortunately a string snapped and put the guitar player and everyone else out the their misery. I think another open mic regular talked to him in a nice way, suggesting how he might improve. But then he never came back. So that's how it goes sometimes.

We have another singer who's so bad that he's developed a sort of cult following, and always gets a big round of applause. But then we have some great performers and everything in between. That makes the open mic interesting. We have a great community of musicians that really care about the music and helping new performers. And a great listening audience. The only downside is that we're too popular and most times it's just a one-song night.

I can't think of a better way to get involved in the music. The more participants the better.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:37 PM

Any club where they give the emcee or bartender a small gong to use in case of true emergency?

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM

Thank you GUEST HW for your comments. They are both well stated and true.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:42 PM

What is all the fuss about? If you can't live with the quality of whoever shows up, don't hold open mics. Open mics do give new performers a chance to develop their skills, and give seasoned performers the chance to try out new material and new styles, and once in a while you find an unexpected gem at an open mic. So there are many good reasons to have them. But if you would rather not put up with the few really terrible performers and with the masses of mediocre performers, then don't have them. That's an easy solution to this problem.

Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM

Amen, HW. Thanks. Everybody has to start somewhere.