BS: How do you Convince a Moron...

Subject: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:30 PM

Okay Catters,You have one or two minutes only. How do you convince A Bush Baby Moron that he's wrong to vote for his reelection? Just one or two salient points please.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:34 PM

How about convincing a moron that it doesn't matter a good godamn what idiot 'runs' the country...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:43 PM

If you/we can come up with salient points, Mickey, I hope to learn them! I'm going south to visit my birth family soon, and I don't relish not being understood or just biting my tongue.

(I'm not answering Clinton Hammond because he knows he is wrong.)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:48 PM

Point out what freedoms have been lost, and that the impetus seems to just be beginning. Ask him/her what benefits were received from the Bush tax cuts. Ask how many soldiers have died, and if s/he doesn't know, have the figures. Ask why his/her grandchildren will have to pay for an unjustified war. Make a list of the proven Bush lies.

Make a written list before you go, so you don't get sidetracked in conversation.

(pant, pant!)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:56 PM

I disagree Ebbie ...Clinton is perfectly correct..All this "bad mouthing " of Bush is purely a sideshow ...You Americans should take a really good look at the people who run your country ...Your too trusting by half...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:58 PM

Make a list of falsehoods -- there are a couple of web sites on Bushisms and Bush lies.

Make a list of erosions such as those in Patriot Act 1 and 2.

Analyze the difference between the Constitutional contract for this society and Bush's actions, including the use of religious opinions as a basis of governmental influence.

If you have time, work up a list of the degrees in which state's rights have been sanded away by the current administration, particularly the 2000 election.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:10 PM

Clinton Hammond said: How about convincing a moron that it doesn't matter a good godamn what idiot 'runs' the country...

Akenetan agrees and says: All this "bad mouthing " of Bush is purely a sideshow ...You Americans should take a really good look at the people who run your country ...Your too trusting by half...

Discuss and clarify, please?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:20 PM

Ask him this question, "Name one thing the republican paRTy ever did for the benefit of the common working man/woman." If he asks what then Democrats ever did, tell him this.
1 Social security under FDR. the repubs fought it tooth and nail.
2 Minimum wage
3 women's right to vote (Woodrow Wilson)
4 the right to collective bargaining
5 Medicare
6 Overtime
7 Safer working conditions (John L. Lewis)
To name a few. of course, if the moron is rich, he will say every one of these things is bad for business.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:25 PM

The attacks of 09/11/01 were an assault upon all the people of the World. They presented Bush with an opportunity to reach out to the entire world and work together with other leaders to not just try to eliminate terrorism, but to solve the problems to which terrorism is a response. Instead, he took the attitude that the attack was strictly an attack against the US and that the US is justified in doing whatever it wants to do as long as "fighting terrorism" is the goal. As a result, worldwide opinion of the US is at the lowest point it has ever been.

We live in a truly global society and George W. Bush is simply not a person who thinks in global terms. He ignores the opinions of other world leaders and citizens and does whatever he wants. His arrogant actions will turn around and bite him on the ass sooner or later. Unfortunately, when the bite comes he'll be safe inside a bunker under a mountain somewhere while you and I bleed.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:34 PM

Well Ebbie ..Its getting late and Im getting tired ,but I find it naive in the extreme to trivialise the actions of the American Government,by blaming them exclusively on George Bush.Its clear that he is simply a mouthpiece for "business interests".
To people on the left in Britain the American political system seems very corrupt,and Im afraid you respect your politicians far too much.
In Britain a politician is last person we think trustworthy...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:53 PM

This sounds a little like how do you convince a moron about being a Lutheran, or Gay or A Jew or any other thing.   It seems to me that it is always best to let people do what they want, think what they want and be what they want. I try to respect all people regardless of their politics, race, religion or sexual preferences. What about this is difficult for people who try to be called "liberals?" I will readily agree that there are good points about your politics, and there are definately good things that you as a party have brought to the table. Can you or will you do likewise?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Padre
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:10 PM

Not by ad hominem attacks - most people don't cotton to being insulted. That's why the only Democratic candidate that I can support is Joe Lieberman.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:12 PM

amen, padre I can respect that, o m,ay not totally agree but I think he is a fine man

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:13 PM

should be I May... too much Wine At least I am a liberal drinker!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:57 PM

I thought Lieberman was a good man--however, he did not appear for the most important vote on Medicare today. Bad Move.

Akenaton,Last politician I really respected was Truman. The last honest president may have been Carter-but he was inept. Seems today "honest Politician" is an oxymoron.

jimmyt--who among us would try to convince a Jew, Lutheran, or a gay to switch? No one I know. Your analogy is bad. Apples & oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 10:12 PM

Mickey, point is, that regardless of how brilliant you feel your wording is, it is an inflammatory question. Who would be receptive to anyone who calls their opinions, beliefs or politics moronic. Liberal? seems more like narrow minded to me. Maybe not apples /oranges, but sour grapes to me

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 10:55 PM

I wish to defend Jimmy Carter to the ... well, not to the death, but perhaps to the minor injury? Carter wasn't inept -- he lacked the street smarts to play dirty in DC, and they ate him alive. He was, if anything, too nice, too honest, too sincere. On the other hand, he came out of his presidency into a position that suits him perfectly, at which he is extremely good, and to which he adds class.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:11 PM

Carter did at least two things for which I respect and admire him as a President.

1. He visited Three Mile Island after the disaster there. At the time there were lots of people who questioned just what the hell he could there -- a politician? Then it was pointed out to them that the man did have a degree in nuclear engineering.

2. (the big one) Following the debacle of the attempted rescue of the hostages in Iraq, Carter came on television and, as Commander In Chief and as a good ex-military officer, accepted the blame. He stated that he authorized the raid and that he took full responsibility for its failure.

Contrast number 2 to dear Ronnie Reagan, who, after the truck bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, effectively said, "We'll find out who dropped the ball and heads will roll!"

Sorry folks. I think Carter was the better leader.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:34 PM

You can't!!!!

Just wait... time will do it for you............

Welcome to America: The World's Latest Third World Country......

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:34 PM

My apologies to J. Carter & thanks to pdc & Rapaire
for pointing out my inept judgement. Haste makes waste.

jimmyt-I never think my wordage is brilliant. Case in point, I've just had to apologize for my verbiage.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:36 PM

Amen, Rapaire!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: SueB
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM

How do you keep a moron in suspense?

I'll tell you tomorrow....

No, seriously, all your questions and lists will accomplish nothing, except maybe to make your 'opponent' cling more tenaciously to his/her position.

The best you can hope to do is to find some thing, or things, no matter how small, that you can agree on, without having to necessarily agree on the cause or solution. Then you at least have a starting point for an actual discussion.

Happy Holidays.

PS I don't think Jimmy Carter was inept. He fought the good fight.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:24 AM

Quite aside from Bush, there are numerous ways of convincing a moron of just about anything you could care to name...

1. wave a whole bunch of money in front of said moron

2. make him think it (whatever "it" is) will improve his sex life

3. tell him it's free

4. tell him it's a "limited time, once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity

5. tell him "everybody else does it" or "has one" or...

6. use threats and/or brute force on the moron (armies have used this method on both morons and smart people since time immemorial)

7. blackmail the moron

8. bribe the moron (see section 1. above)

9. flatter the moron

10. convince the moron it's his idea

11. offer the moron a "tax cut" (ha! ha!)

12. play on the moron's fears and hatreds, and promise to "get tough" with serial murderers, rapists, criminals, and welfare cheats

13. tell the moron that the other guys are "liberals" (this only really works in the USA, however)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:32 AM

I'm a moron. Where do I sign to get my money?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:35 AM

Well I don't know about convincing "morons" about anything. Shouldn't that be "Perceptually Challenged" or some other newspeak buzz word?

I agree with "Guest" The republicans are not my friends, not the friends of the common man, no way!

This Medicare prescription drug junk is a good point.

Right now I pay $37.50 a month for my medicine. I understand that I will be charged $35 a month additional to my Medicare fee of $58 a month. I will then be able to get my medicine for only $30 a month. That's $65 a month I'll be paying for medicine I am currently paying $37.50 for! I hope the prescription drug plan is optional but I have a sinking feeling that it isn't.

Thanks boys, I really needed THAT sharp stick in the eye!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:37 AM

Meanwhile the economy is getting better.......................

I'm not pro Bush. Nor am I a Republican, a liberal. I am a moderate American with an open mind. But I don't claim to have all of the answers either. Nor do I relate to calling people with different politics morons just to start conversations.

To the ones who don't live in this country who bad mouth it, please kiss my ass on the corner State & Madison. I wouldn't trade it here for anything. Especially for a country with women with hairy armpits. I'm glad that I am raising my children here.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:54 AM

I'm not talking about Republicans here, Martin, I'm talking about morons in general... :-) I realize some of the other posters are talking about Republicans, though.

By the way, I was in Atlanta, Georgia, last weekend and absolutely loved the place, and all the wonderful, friendly people I met there. I can well understand you're glad to be raising your kids in the USA, given that recent experience.

I think your economy is getting better mainly because the US dollar has dropped in value 15% in the last few months, which has enormously improved your balance of trade. Who or what made that happen, I do not know, but it's very beneficial for Americans, cos now the whole world wants to buy more of your stuff.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:58 AM

Well, I hope some of your children have hairy armpits - but only your daughters.

You have to distinguish between "bad mouthing" and "criticizing." And the country you love so well permits free speech, remember?

The people who criticize their country love it in a healthy manner, and recognizing it's not perfect, seek to correct what is wrong. People who yell "love it or leave it," and things of that ilk, never have to actually think, which is often a great relief to them.

I believe it was G. K. Chesterton who said, "My country right or wrong is like my mother drunk or sober."

A sobering thought, if you can cope with it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:08 AM

Michael Moore, in his latest opus, "Dude Where's My Country?" Offers some advice on how to talk to your right wing brother in law. I think it would also work for morons.
I really don't think much of myself for saying this, but Howard Dean DOES have a number of supporters from the right. If your moron can read, you might send him to Dean's web site. The magic phrase, "Dean balanced the budget in the state of Vermont while cutting taxes twice," Works well on conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:45 AM

Q. How do you Convince a Moron...

A. Never try to trach a pig to sing. It just makes a terrible noise, upsets the teacher, and annoys the pig.

:-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:07 AM

Martin Gibson -- that comment about women with hairy armpits is offensive as well as stupid. Nowhere else but in the US are women brainwashed to the point that they believe body hair is unacceptable. Or that they need silicone tits and botox lips to be lovable, or weigh under 100 pounds, for that matter. If you have a daughter, you might give some long thought to what the American media are doing to her self-image, dad.

I live in this country, and I think it's moronic to respond to someone who's critical of its state of affairs "if you don't like it, why don't you go live in Russia". Was it Jefferson or Tom Paine who said, "There may come times when a patriot must be ready to defend his country from his government"?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:16 AM

This country???

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:32 AM

How many do you have?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 06:50 AM

Another thing I admire about Carter; after leaving the cellpool (DC) he went to work building houses for the needy while Reagan cut brush on his ranch and made speeches at a million dollars a pop.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:16 PM

This business of underarm hair reminds me of a conversation I had with a brother once. He said, You have to admit that the shape of a woman's leg is much prettier when she's wearing high heels. And after a bit of thought, I said, Then maybe we should change our ideas of beauty?

The old Chinese idea of a woman's foot being more beautiful when it was tiny, even though its size was achieved by folding and deforming it to the extent that the 'upper crust' woman was not physically able to walk comes to mind.

As a product of my time I too think a woman's underarm is prettier without hair but I'm willing to admit that maybe my standards should change.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:36 PM

Little Hawk. I am only 100 miles from Atlanta, and if I had known you were there, I would have been delighted to drive down and buy you a glass of your favorite, I think it is Reisling? Next time,buddy!

Rapiare I also was a big Jimmy Carter fan, couldn't wait for his presidency, but was very disappointed by his lack of effect, and I too think it is because he was such a clean, honest decent man. He has been an excellent ExPresident, and I believe one of the few politicians I would truly call a statesman. There, I said something nice about a Liberal! See how easy it is?

I feel like Martin Gibson has some strong points about this country, although I am not gonna encourage my wife to grow armpit hair out and braid it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:42 PM

Oh, drop the armpit hair stuff, fer cry-ii! IOs it in some way an index of the nation? A primary indicator of the culture's well-being? A datum of any goddamn importance at all?

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:17 PM

Amos, sexism is still important even if it's no longer fashionable to criticize it. On the other forum I belong to, I've just had an enormous fight with a guy who casually refers to women as "bitches," as in "one of the bitches I work with..." etc.

Unless the previous poster was objecting to men with hairy armpits, as well as women, he was being crude.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:37 PM

Oh, PDC, I wasn't on about the sexist aspect. I think my armpits are probably hairier than yours, at a guess, but I don't care particularly. As for 'bitches' it is highly unfortunate that it is sometimes the only general term for females that people learn to use in somer neighborhoods. I would suggest replying in kind by referring ot the gentleman in question as a penis.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:40 PM

Darn! I should've let you know in advance, Jimmy. I'll do so next time (gotta go back to Atlanta).

The hairy armpit thing? Well, once I went to a Buffy Sainte-Marie concert in the summer, and I noticed that she had hairy armpits. Yowsa! Very sexy! (of course, it was Buffy...although not in "the buff")

I have no objection to hairy armpits on certain people.

Now look, Amos, don't get fractious! If you do, I will go on and on about my unrequited lust for Hillary Clinton. (heh! heh!)

I like Jimmy Carter too. He's a fine man.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 01:16 AM

Hi Amos -- you've got a daughter, haven't you? Surely you get my point about the false beauty ideal the media hold up to young girls in this country -- which contributes to a litany of physical and emotional disorders, both in those girls who think to conform to the false ideal, and those who don't.

If you're familiar with the concept, it's a toxic mimic of true beauty, and should be debunked by any responsible parent.

As to body hair, I have lots, and my wife has never demanded that I remove any of it. Instead, she accepts me as I am. Why shouldn't men do the same?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 01:27 AM

Then there are female guinea pigs...they look dreadful without their body hair. Trust me on this.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 03:45 AM

Women get to vote?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 07:32 PM

A positive post coming up, so sit down and get comfy.

I have a daughter who is 25, weighs over 200 pounds, has some skin problems which will probably clear up, and has the misfortune to be losing her hair, which is a pity, as it is thick, dark red hair.

She has to beat men off with a stick. Funny, bright, perceptive, witty to the point of making me laugh till I cry. A ton of friends, a busy social life, enjoys life and loves who she is.

As you can well imagine, the men she attracts are all first class guys: I would have any of them as a son-in-law, and I believe she is getting a ring for Christmas.

I'm fairly certain that when I was 25 (I'm 62 now), that couldn't have happened. There has been a terrific improvement in the relationship between the sexes, and most of the credit goes to men for changing with the times.

Good on ya, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 08:40 PM

Well, how about convincing said morons that every "good man" has simply mastered a few well-worn .... less-ons?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 09:04 PM

I go for the high IQ and a good sense of humor everytime.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 12:53 PM

Michael

If you were offended about my hairy armpit comment, you made my day! To the guy who finds hairy armpits sexy on Buffy, that's OK, some might find her shorts sexy after she had a burrito.

No one said hariy armpits are an index of a nation. They might be an index of a culture, as in clean. If you want your wife to be a hairball, I don't really care. It's not me who hangs out with her.

I love the sleek, American look. No, I do not have daughters. The guys I know who do, are usually freaked out when they see their daughters walking around in hip hugger jeans with their puppick(sic) hanging out.

Yep, I'm glad I live in a country where I can speak my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:38 AM

Wanker!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 09:40 AM

There are any number of countries where one can speak his mind, Martin...those where one cannot are, I think, in a minority.

The comment about the burrito, I don't quite get. Maybe that's a good thing. :-)

As for clean, I think Cubans are about the cleanest living and dressing people I've ever seen...but I can't remember whether or not their women shave their armpits. They told me that the one thing that could definitely bring down Castro's government by popular revolt is: if soap ever gets rationed or becomes unavailable!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 10:29 AM

That could very well be about Cubans. I don't know.

I won't explain the burrito remark.

The unidentified guest who simply posted "wanker" that ridiculously British term I believe for "jagoff" was obviously offended. He must not be much of a folksinger.