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BS: Fireman's Strike UK
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Subject: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: clansfolk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 04:52 AM Can anybody explain to me why people take jobs - then decide because of the danger involved etc (which one would think they'd be aware of when they chose theie career) they threaten strike action for more money (will this make the danger less???) and not better safety equipment? Why do they always compare their wages to other group of workers like Police, Teachers Doctors etc...? If the job and wages someone else is getting is better than there's why don't they train and apply to be a policeman, teacher whatever - if it's just Money. The firemaen do a good job - likewise so do a lot of other people and starting a rush on wage rises won't do any good, it'll just mean everyone will demand more, prices go up and a lot of people will be inconvenienced and of course the people who can't threaten to withold their labour eg disabled and retired people become worse off. Was it just bad luck that the strike action rose its head just before "Bombfire Night" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Jock Morris Date: 21 Oct 02 - 05:18 AM The level of UK fireman's pay has not kept pace with inflation, let alone kept pace with police pay, so they are having to strike to get back to where they were in real terms many years ago. To suggest somebody should change careers just because their job has not been properly rewarded for years is stupid when the job they are doing is so essential to the well being of the nation. The fireman have made it very clear for many months now that they were unhappy about their level of pay and were considering strike action; the government has had plenty of time to take action to rectify the situation but has chosen not to. I do believe that the firemen's decision to start their strike action just before Guy Fawkes night (let's give it its proper name) is somewhat ill advised if they wish to keep public support for their pay claim. Scott |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: mooman Date: 21 Oct 02 - 05:24 AM From a personal point of view I think that firemen are woefully underpaid and do a superb and highly dangerous job. Teachers , nurses, probably policemen and other key workers are also massively underpaid. As are most scientists. The real problem is that there is a huge distortion in society as to what is really valuable hence the huge salaries within many of the "parasitic professions" and the huge bonuses awarded to top executives of failing businesses, both of which are an abomination. All IMHO of course! mooman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Teribus Date: 21 Oct 02 - 05:48 AM According to the local paper they are demanding a 40% increase in pay. The strike will reduce firefighting cover for the county from 220, well maintained, highly specialised vehicles, to 20 inferior Bedford trucks. The 40% bit is an opening gambit in the negotiation, the counter offer is 4% as an interim, the compromise, as compromise it must be, will give the firefighters better pay - the degree to which they are better off at the conclusion will depend on how many jobs they are prepared to lose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Julie B Date: 21 Oct 02 - 06:26 AM ...I don't blame them one bit! Even people with "good" jobs are paid wages on which they have no hope of ever buying a place to live. Without a salary of at least £30 it's impossible to buy any sort of home, let alone a decent one in a decent area, in most places in the UK. Of course, the irony is that the soldiers who will provide cover during any strike have far worse pay and conditions! But that doesn't make the firefighters wrong. Julie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Julie B Date: 21 Oct 02 - 06:28 AM ...okay, okay! I meant "salary of 30K"! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST,MC Fat Date: 21 Oct 02 - 06:53 AM I remember the great Scottish Folk Singer Dick Gaughan saying during the miner's strike that he and his dad were talking and they could not remember a single time where any government had said a strike was justified. Governments of any persuasion always trot out the line about any strike hurting the old folk, children etc but fail to realise that they couldn't give a monkeys about those groups at any other time. The firemen deserve all they've asked for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Bassic Date: 21 Oct 02 - 07:22 AM Surely Firefighters pay is a classic case for some kind of independant pay review body. I am sure that this has been used with some success with other essential workers in the past. Properly set up, this kind of body should remove the need for strike action by ensuring parity with other simmilar jobs and taking the process outside politics and short term economic "prudence". Has this been tried? Anyone better informed than me? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Ireland Date: 21 Oct 02 - 07:30 AM Now is the best time for the firemen to strike, it sort of gives us an idea of the trouble we would be in if we did not have them. £30k is not much to pay people who walk into a burning building to save others at the risk of their own life, haven't seen many teachers or doctors or nurse's face such risks when they go to work. Millions are paid to insurance companies every year with no return, why not let buildings burn to the ground and collect on insurance,the money firemen save in such instances alone make them worth £30k, and they cannot be paid enough when they pull a loved one out of burning buildings. They are worth it,take it off those who are non essential, like hospital managers and give it to those who do the hard work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Mrs.Duck Date: 21 Oct 02 - 08:06 AM Don't know many teachers or nurses who are paid salaries of £30k either! I'm with the fire fighters all the way and if blame is to levelled in the event of a catastrophe let it be at the government for not representing the very people who put them there! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Ireland Date: 21 Oct 02 - 08:38 AM Well put Mrs Duck, I'm not saying doctors and nurse's do not deserve more pay, they do deserve more than their managers do. We have a terrible habit of rewarding the wrong people with the high wages. I wonder how much nurse's and fire fighter's in America earn, and I'm sure their wages are not begrudged to them . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: InOBU Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:05 PM Hi Ireland, and others... Here in New York City, where we burried what could be found of three hundred and fourty three firefighters, from a single event, and where firefighters will run into the same danger with out a moments hesitation, our bisinessman Mayor, is shutting down firehouses and reducing the size of the force through attriction, and forcing some off the force in order for them to keep a decent pention. Don't worry about when these fellows strike, it is long overdue for your firefighteers to get a fare wage and fair treatment. Go stand with them and don't let what happened to your coal miners happen to them, or what is happening to our firefighters. In honnor of what these remarkable folks do, I hope the entire nation lines up in front of every fire brigage and stands with them as fast as they have always come to your aid. I am reminded that a Mudcatter lost her father to lung desease up in Manchester, where an entire generation of fire fighters who stood up to the fire storms of the blitz paid the price for fighting fires every night, with life long damage to their health. For pities sake, don't ask why they are striking when they are, ask why your government has taken them for granted for so long!!! In solidarity Larry Otway |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: clansfolk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:45 PM ummm - semms many feel the "Fire Fighters" should strike for more money and that 30k a year isn't a living wage? and a 35% pay rise is justified - to keep inline with inflation?? Couldn't agree more - let everyone have a 35% pay rise - that'll help - more taxes............... Can heigher wages counteract the danger and deaths suffered by the fire brigade? The power to withhold ones labour in mass is a powerful weapon and used carefully and for the right reasons..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Mrs.Duck Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:57 PM I don't object to paying a bit more on my tax bill. But more importantly I think those who do earn exhorbitant salaries should pay a lot more. Lets see a return to higher taxes for higher wages and let the rich pay for a change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:57 PM Tony Blair has warned giving in to firefighters' demands for a 40% pay rise would force up mortgage interest rates and create "havoc" across the public sector. Mr Blair said there is "no way" that any government could give in to such a demand. And he urged the Fire Brigades Union to call off a series of strikes due to be begin in eight days' time, and to take part in a review of firefighters' pay and conditions. Mr Blair said: "We hope, even now, that the unions can accept that if they have got a problem with wanting a new pay formula, we will look at that. "We have got an independent review carrying out its work, but they can't come to us and say 'We want a new formula, we're not going to co-operate with your review and in the meantime you have got to give us a 40% pay rise'. No government could yield to that without putting up people's interest rates and their mortgage rates and causing havoc across the public sector, because other people in the public sector would say 'If they are getting 40%, I want 40%'." Mr Blair acknowledged that the army Green Goddesses, on standby to provide emergency cover if firefighters do strike, would not be able to provide the same level of protection as that offered by fire brigades. He said: "We will do everything we possibly can to make sure that the public is properly protected, but of course, it is a situation where we are not able to provide the full service that we would be able to if the firefighters were carrying out their duties. "Let me make one thing very clear - we don't want a confrontation. We have done everything we possibly can to avoid it. "But in the meantime, they are saying that they are not going to talk to this independent review, but file a wage claim that is 40% or more. "We have tried everything we can to resolve this. We want to resolve it in an amicable way, but I think the public understands that we can't give in to demands that on no basis could any government give in to." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:14 PM Tony Blair is an arsehole, he knows exactly what i think of him. i wouldnt trust him one bit, he always looks a bit shifty if you ask me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST,T Blair Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:18 PM well I like u John - not sure about Hull (and hell or Halifax) TB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:24 PM The poor buggers manning the Green Goddesses deserve the 40% pay rise. They are the real Heroes! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:26 PM Mr Blair-Why do you waste money on shite like the millenium dome,(cost nearly a billion pound!) instead of paying nurses, teachers , firefighters etc a decent wage, and why dont you keep your nose out of other peoples business, and look after this country, instead of concentrating on your TWAT project 9The War Against Terrerism)? And before you bloody start & say the millenium was not built with taxpayers money, well it was still a waste, and why does lottery money not go to the NHS instead silly bullshit schemes.You wont give a good answer because you are full of shit.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:29 PM You can also pass messages on to santa via mudcat!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:35 PM And hers another thing you asshole- why when the UK is the highest taxed nation in Europe, do we have the longest waiting lists for operations? I reckon this wont bother you, as you earn around £250,000 a year! and can afford private treatment. And why does it suprise you that people go abroad to buy cigs, to save money,thats why. And Why when around 90% of the price of petrol are the roads in such a state, and you expect us to pay road tolls, you must be bloody joking! And why do we still have junior doctors working over 100 hours a week? If you did more than 48 in a facyory it would be illegal, but your government decided to exempt doctors from the Working Hours Directive! Your full of shit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:38 PM See, no answer, he is full of shit.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:39 PM Is Hull really that depressing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Ireland Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:41 PM I think this is typical of those who run our country,Labour or conservative, they let things fester until they pop, and then to solve the problems it hurts more than it would have if they had paid attention at the beginning. Blair is looking a gentlemanly approach to discussions,pity he did not think of it years ago and done the right thing with a decent pay rise each year instead of leaving people to strike to get their point across. Maybe if some bonfires are cancelled on safety grounds it will show some that the fire brigade play a more subtle role in society than just putting out fires and attending road accidents. They do a lot more than given credit for only problem is it is out of the publics view. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: katlaughing Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:46 PM John in Hull, you've just surpassed Spaw in coming up with the MOST outrageous acronym I've seen on Mudcat, that of TWAT for the The War On Terrorism! I don't know about over there, but over here in the States, "twat" is slang for a woman's private parts! LOL!! As to the wages, I believe a person has to be assertive in getting what they deserve. If it takes a strike so be it. I doubt anyone would want to go back to the old days, as they've mentioned on Antiques Roadshow, where the firefighters did not put out fires, unless a building had a plaque mounted on an outside wall showing what insurance company would cover the costs. If one didn't have a plaque, from what I understand, one was SOL (shit out of luck.) If only the insurance companies did have to contribute from their profits specifically for this! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:51 PM Kat-I reckon Mr Blairs well used acronym suits him very well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:55 PM Firemen are financially no worse off than other public service workers. There is no shortage of recruits to the fire service. Compare that with the chronic shortage of nurses in the UK. Nurses are propping up the NHS and a big pay rise would boost moral and applicantions to Nurse training. One thing the nurses won't do is put vulnerable people at risk and strike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: JudeL Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:03 PM It is not that firefighters don't deserve a pay ris ethey do - but please don't think they re the only ones who risk their health and their lives , others who work in the public sector do too. OFTEN FROM THOSE WHO THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP! and they do it with far less publicity or thanks |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: caz2ufolk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:05 PM Oh that was funny TWAT project I like that one. As for the strike I'm with you... but 40% a bit high. Fire fighters should be paid a rate for playing snooker! and a different rate for a call out. I heard this morning that the soldiers may be forced to cross the picket line for specialist equipment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: katlaughing Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:28 PM I wonder that no one's told Blair about TWAT? :-) Sorry, no more drift... This thread reminds me that those of service generally are never compensated enough for their work and it is not fair to any of them to compare them to one another as they are each of vital need, e.g. nurses, police, firefighters, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:29 PM I thought it was Bush's TWAT? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:38 PM aNd other thing-why is it that my frend called Paul the fireman, has to work doing electrician jobs to make more money? they dont get paid enough thats why! fireman arent supposed to have other jobs, so dont tell anyone.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:47 PM Firemen work at other jobs because their shift systems allow them to. If nurses spent all nightshift in their pits they would have two jobs. But seriously their shift patterns make it possible to do so. I know several firemen and they all have second jobs. Some even have their own businesses. If perhaps your mate Tony gave them a large settlement on the condition they changed their shift patterns and agreed to give up other work they would shit themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Ireland Date: 21 Oct 02 - 02:56 PM So the fire fighters are on strike for a pay rise for nurse's,doctor's,teachers,hospital workers,who ever else in the public sector. And at last for themselves, these previous workers have had their fights with the government did they ask about the fire fighters pay no. These men cannot fight everyone's fight what they are doing is highlighting their plight and in doing so it brings peoples attention to others plight. I do not begrudge the fire fighters playing whatever games they play,simply because they go towards what most off us run from, and if they get some relaxation after cleaning their units and clearing up after fires imo they are welcome to it. I watched fire fighters put out a blaze under the attack of scum who wanted the property to burn, they got their hoses chopped, viciously assaulted hit by bricks ,petrol bombed and rammed into by joy riders, they do deserve their pay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Shields Folk Date: 21 Oct 02 - 03:01 PM The firemen are after what they can get for themselves and sod the consequences. Who said they were fighting for others in the public sector? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: katlaughing Date: 21 Oct 02 - 03:57 PM A little more drift...my term for Bush's TWAT is TWOO or WOO (like an owl's hoot, not the number 2), The War of Obfuscation...pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! I guess it could also be WOOF using two letters from the last word.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Eric the Viking Date: 21 Oct 02 - 04:04 PM I had a close friend, many years ago, who died in London in a fire-he was a fireman) I couldn't agree more with most of what has been said here.(Though-many nurses, doctors and teachers, social workers etc are assulted, some very seriously, and some killed!) The public services in the UK have seen a massive erosion of their pay over the last 20+ odd years. To say, "you choose" a career, or job and then accept the pay structure is an over-simplification. If you choose the job, and then your job declines in status, respect, value and also take home wages, then you have every right to be peeved to say the least.Then to say let's all have a pay rise then taxes will go up-is a bit daft. When Executives get their big pay rises, what goes up? PRICES! Everyone (almost) praises the earning of huge profits, but moans when ordinary people want a decent wage. Take a supermarket chain taking £30,000,000.00 profit-don't forget you and I have been earning them that, by paying over the odd for their goods.Like most things in the UK, over priced, profit first, people last! Well I hope they go on strike until they win, I hope teachers, nurses, doctors and every other public service worker goes on strike until decent pay and conditions are part of their right,since they choose to do the job! Joh9n my friend, you are quite right-Tony Blair et al are a bunch of TWATS. Since Mrs B earns about half a million a year (geting very rich through figting for womens rights) and Tony about a quarter of a million-the hypocrisy of most MP's is amazing. Put it this way......... How much would you pay for someone to risk their life for yours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST Date: 21 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM Isn't that the whole point - HOW MUCH do you put on someone risking their life? Maybe we should go back to the days of the old "Fire plaques" on the wall and if a private fire service turned up at a fire insured by another company they wouldn't do anything, charge everyone for the insurance and pay the fire men more. The people who have died trying to save or saving someone from a fire (whether fire men. police or civilians)still would have died whatever their pay check was. Will the fire men be picketing fires during the strike?? or standing by on the other side of the road watching someone burn to death? I doubt it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST,out of it now Date: 21 Oct 02 - 07:31 PM I wouldn't be a fireman for a 100% pay rise .... but that's why I didn't apply for the job - I didn't like the looks of the job and no amount of money would have convinced me - however I do believe there is a waiting list for the job... even at its current rate of pay. I didn't stand for parliament either - why would it appear do these wonderful people that are voted in suddenly become "TWATS" when they make desisions we don't agree with a bit like when we were kids and couldn't get our own way with Mums and Dads ... everyone can do a better job than the person we ellect to do it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Teribus Date: 22 Oct 02 - 03:57 AM TWAT - The War Against Terrorism - Love it, LOL!!! TWAT apart, a 40% pay rise, which practicaly everyone seems to support, in order to have the public sector workers adequately compensated for the work they do is fine and easily achievable - all the people supporting them have to do is pay for it - nothing could be simpler. Oh, the tax the rich scheme never really works, because the rich just move to more favourable locations. Pierre Trudeau once explained it very clearly to the opposition parties in Canada as follows (figures given are given merely to demonstrate the point and are not representative): You are rich, you have the choice of paying 30% tax in Canada or 35% tax in the USA. Where do you live? On the other hand you can pay 35% in the USA or 40% in Canada. Where do you live? So by increasing the tax burden on the rich by 10% to finance the schemes you want to see introduced, the rich move and the Canadian Treasury recovers less in revenue than before. But as the money has already been allocated the tax burden on the poor has to be increased to compensate or the schemes have to be cancelled. Please note it is easier to do this in Europe under EU Regulations. I also noted that in describing the "fat cats", corporations, companies and their executives are mentioned. What about top flight footballers, musicians and entertainers. Anybody reckon that kicking a football round a pitch for ninety minutes a week is worth £120,000? What about deciding what a top salary should be, then anything earned over the top goes to the government to pay for the public sector wage bill? Don't think you would get many takers - again, they'd move. Companies need profits to exist and grow. With that growth comes jobs, from those jobs comes tax revenue. Fact of life is that the bulk of tax collected will come from the masses, not the few, so if you want the public sector to be well paid - put your hands in your pockets and either pay up or shut up, there is no such thing as Government Money - It's yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: JudeL Date: 22 Oct 02 - 02:51 PM BTW - the starting offer to firemen was 4% the starting offer to those working in local govt was less than 2% and even after a one day strike and negotiations the final offer was still only 3% from April and another 1/2% from sept and 2/3 of those working in local govt earn less on full time pay than the average allowance paid to councillors. Oh and this is at least in part a gender thing as more than 70% of those who work in local govt are women |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Eric the Viking Date: 22 Oct 02 - 05:13 PM Well Teribus, quite right- I should have included the whole list of well overpaid people,from football players upwards to and including musicians etc Got nothing against people having lots of money. The rich don't always move on if they are taxed more (Take Richard Branson and quite a few others ( But I know what you mean)But, look at it this way, if you are really rich, you don't need MORE-it's a bit like reversing the argument "you take the job and know the pay". The same applies to the rich-you could take the job because you want to do it, are skilled at it, not because you'll become a millionaire several times over. It is a complex arguement I agree. Perhaps if profit and greed had never been the second most common trait of humans , but had been the least common trait, then life would be so much different, and people would argue about the rights of the individual to aquire wealth above the masses instead of the other way round as it is now. Secondly-again quite right, though I haven't fogotten it myself. The money government miss spends is ours. But please don't forget many of the rich (how ever they got their money) have got it by exploitation of the poor, primarily and historically by bullying, threatening,taking by force and coercion. Then by giving poor wages and making huge profits.(Don't start about profits-I agree re-investment is vital) Quite interesting that you say "comapanies need profits to invest and grow, from this comes tax revenue from the employed" -because as soon as there is the smallest amount of threat to profit-who suffers? The workforce, who are made redundant, and kicked out of jobs to become a tax burden via state support.How many executives (as a comparative figure) loose almost everything, as a factory worker does when they are made redundant? Sorry it doesn't wash with me. As for me personally, I do put my hands in my pocket, I do pay my taxes, I do support public sector workers getting more money, I support the underwaged geting more money. I don't need to shut up-I pay up willingly. I hope they win!!!!!! I mostly dislike most politicians, they change their minds and tunes as flies on a piece of dog mess.One minute they are "hear hearing" for the support of the underwaged and poor, the next they are telling us "It's totally wrong to try and gain a decent pay rise!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: alanabit Date: 22 Oct 02 - 05:50 PM Sorry to be the flamer here - and I only had time to read the first twenty or so posts, but here's my take on firemen's pay: In Germany, it is estimated that young people on average watch twenty eight and a half hours of television a week. We can confidently say (supported by viewing figures) that most of the TV which they watch is that which has a standard twenty-one minutes advertising per hour. That means that our kids are watching around ten hours of advertising a week. (Mine certainly do not come up to the national average). I am willing to argue at length that this advertising - highly skilled and calculated - does hideous damage to our society. Not one of the people whom I have met who works in that industry would be prepared to risk their neck for the same money as a fireman. Ultimately, we pay for both groups of workers. Which do you want to pay for? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Gareth Date: 22 Oct 02 - 06:51 PM I can't argue about the UK firemen being worth a basic of £30K per annum. I can say that with a no strings investigation revue and enquiry underway that this strike is unneccessary, and damaging. BTW What insurance company profits from underwriting - can any catter show where these are ? Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: breezy Date: 23 Oct 02 - 05:52 PM The timing coincides with Bon-fire nights. Sorry fire-fighters, but your credibility is called into question.It is you who could be said to put the public at risk at the most crucial time of the year. You're better off not rocking the boat that allows you to have 2 occupations, 5 days on 5 nights on, how about it? yes or no They are bringing in cheap staff for classrooms now, ready to have cheap support in the fire-brigade? If you want what someone else has then do that job If only 1 in 38 applicants become firemen then there's no shortage thus the pay must be O.K., not so in teaching, nor nursing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: alanabit Date: 23 Oct 02 - 05:58 PM Have you seen the unemployment figures lately Breezy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:59 PM I dont care about strike right or wrong but no one should have a firemans strike over the guy fawkes holiday period. I say put the firemen on the Nov.5 bonfire and let them burn for that. Culture comes before greed! Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST,GerMan Date: 24 Oct 02 - 06:38 AM To suggest that £20,000.00 per year isn't a living wage is ridiculous. Where I live I don't know anyone that earns much more than this (MOST EARN LESS) & no-one's complaining. Well no-one complaining apart from me that is. I would need a 35% pay rise to reach what Fireman are on now & I've got a good degree. Why is it only the public sector that express the "need" for higher pay. There must be thousands of hard working office staff around the country who are a damn sight worse off than the Fireman. We'd all like more pay but lets face it the country's in the brown stuff & until the global economy improves we'll have to stick with what we've got. Fireman deserve more cash maybe but so do a hell of a lot of others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: Nigel Parsons Date: 24 Oct 02 - 07:23 AM Following the above thread-drift. The was once a major airline. "Trans World Airways". One stewardess asked a passenger if he'd like some T.W.A. coffee. His response was somewhat coarse (and obvious!) Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Fireman's Strike UK From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 02 - 08:07 AM M husband was a young senior fire officer in London (1965 to 1991) during the last strike in 1977 and spent the entire period going to fires and advising the military in the West End of London and beyond. By the time the police had assessed the fire and the military had attended, the fires were often well out of control with the whole building involved when he arrived. Little was reported in the press for various reasons and the public at large had no conception of what was actually occurring; Ministers were well aware as indeed were insurance companies when claims were subsequently submitted. Based upon his experiences of that period, losses will be huge and eventually we will all pay through increased insurance premiums. It must also be noted that many Local Authorities carry the first £100 - £200k loss for each and every incident to reduce their overall insurance premium – again it is the public who will pay via the community charge. It would be interesting to see the figure by which business and domestic rates would have to rise to pay say, at least a 20% pay rise. I don't believe it is anything like the figures being put forward by the Government. My biggest concern is for road users. Fire crews attend road accidents within very short periods and together with paramedics preserve and save many lives that would otherwise be lost. Very limited numbers of specialist rescue crews will be positioned around the country by the military; they will be insufficient and lacking in experience, albeit they will gain it quickly and once committed to an incident will be unavailable elsewhere. Currently, every fire appliance in the UK has expertise and equipment to effect vehicle and similar types of extrication. Without that rapid intervention many people will die without any doubt whatsoever. Anybody who states otherwise is either a liar, ill advised or an utter fool. I would suggest that to reduce the inevitable deaths that will occur, a maximum speed limit of 50mph should be introduced during strike days and a minimum distance imposed between vehicles. Both of these measures should be rigidly enforced. There are many more deaths from road accidents on a daily basis than from fires. Having said all that, 'YES' I do beleive that these men deserve a descent wage to live on in London, most who have a familey receive Income support, what is our county coming too when we pay a Fireman 21K yet a train driver can get a salary of 30k + (no offence to any of you Mudcatter who drive trains) The same applies to doctors and nurses they too deserve a descent wage. Rock Chick |