Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'

Subject: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 04:00 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4603886.stm

I apologise for not being able to turn the above into a blue clicky thing. It's a report from the BBC website about another attempt to put a stop to a long-standing black-face tradition in Padstow, Cornwall, on the basis that it may offend black people. Any thoughts?

(Apart from my inability to blue clicky - I'd be grateful if someone more complit could assist)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,cats
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 04:24 AM

There was a thread about this last year when it was going to the CPS. Have a look. It was found, for the second time, to have no case to answer. Even so, this year, the Merrymakers have changed the name to Mummers Day and scrupulously gone through all the words of all the songs they sing, to make sure they can be offensive to nobody. It's one of the many black faced guising traditions that are found all over the country.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 04:43 AM

Yes - but under threat once more. Where will this end?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: breezy
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 05:30 AM

'nigger balls and licquorice' to the lot of em.

'It was a dark black, black dark night,' or words to that affect.

Please discuss

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 05:46 AM

GUESTs ... perhaps we could continue this discussion in The Previous Thread.

;-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: jellybean
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 06:08 PM

Just out of interest has anyone that is passing comment on darkie day actually seen it? Once again the politically correct brigade have got hold of something and has blown it out of all proportion

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:24 AM

I have.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:25 AM

Sorry, pressed the wrong button.
Dianne Abbott MP has publicly said she has never seen it. She is only going on what others have told her.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:18 AM

She doesn't need to have seen it - it's all part of Labour's plan to suppress any independent culture the English, or in this case the Cornish, might have.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: jellybean
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 05:28 PM

I have seen it too many a time and i think its a shame that a harmless tradition maybe forced to stop because certain people are going on hearsay

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:22 PM

I actually believe it is unlikley to close. They have emphasised the mumming aspect, taken out any possibly offensive words and been filmed for hours by the Police and the material sent to the CPS - who decided not to prosecute.

Just 'cos Diane Abbott - who of course as a good socialist sends her son to public school

http://education.guardian.co.uk/publicschools/story/0,12505,1076207,00.html

says it is so doesn't mean it is so.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Little Robyn
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 02:51 PM

Is she the sort of person who would try to ban di-hydrogen monoxide because it is so dangerous? It can kill you in a few seconds!
Some people don't know what they're talking about!
OSS OSS!
Robyn

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Cllr
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:20 PM

wee Oss

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:26 PM

Why are we so sensitive in the uk.

Lets say bollocks to the lot and do things that are not offensive and cobblers to the silly tossers that think it is offensive.

I get so tired of hearing people say that this is offensive that is offensive when they do not know what the kinell they are dealing with.

If they don't like it stay away, otherwise shut up.

grrr my bloood boileth over

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,kim
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:48 AM

i haven't seen one of these parades but they sound like they could offend i would love to know if any Black people in the parade black up their faces (if there are actually any) there is no way that this parade could happen in a multi cultural society like Birmingham where i come from!! Cornwall is predominantly white which is why no one thinks it is offensive

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,Watchdog
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:52 AM

Blacking up isn't necessarily connected with skin colour. There are many cultures where black skinned people 'white up'. It's just a disguise, usually using readily available materials. Apparently, Aborigines in Australia use ash. Caribbean dancers and mummers also white up. White skinned people have variously used soot, coal dust, burnt cork, etc.

It might be that the Padstow tradition is one of the few that is actually based on skin colour, but it seems that the participants have taken steps to minimise any offence and they should probably be left to enjoy their tradition.

Dianne Abbott needs to concentrate on real discrimination.

And she needs to learn something about her British culture.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:54 AM

If you find these parades offensive, then you have a VERY thin skin indeed. Particularly since you have taken the position of anticipating offence without ever having seen one!! Long may they continue, they are hilarious.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 12:30 PM

Just because Diane Abbott is against it doesn't mean it is right.

This is a thread we all whip each other with every year - almost as traditional as Morris Dancing.

The issue revolves around two factors:

1. Some white people have been blacking up for a long time for reasons they claim are "traditional".
2. Some other people feel uneasy about this and some are offended, because white people blacking up has sometimes been used to mock black people.

How many people does the event have to offend before people stop doing it? If it was the entire population of Cornwall I guess it would stop. If it was just me, I guess they wouldn't. If the offended live a long way off, would anybody care?

So, if it is about anonimity, as is often claimed, wouldn't they look just about as anonomous if they blued, greened or rainbowed up?

In fact rainbowing up would be something a living tradition might consider?

No? No, I thought not.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM

No, it is NOT a thread where there is an annual rumble-- it WAS the ONE thread on the topic that stayed on topic, because the LAST thread that wandered into the PCness of the event pretty well described the actual historical significance of the event and its cultural meanings to the people whose culture HAS the event.

~S~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:01 PM

They have been told to stop wearing afro wigs - once some were photographed doing it. They agreed they would.

Rainbowing sounds a good idea. but we all know it won't happen.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM

"pretty well described the actual historical significance of the event and its cultural meanings to the people whose culture HAS the event".

I guess most people accept that what ever "Darkir days" looks like it has been going on for a while and people value it.

That doesn't make any difference. How many people does it have to offend?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM

Not everyone blacks up, Les. Leicester Morris "red up" on Plough Monday to become Red Leicester Border. It hearkens back to the use of reddle or ruddle to mark tups. The soil round Leicestershire and Rutland is clay-rich (Ruddle-land = Rutland).

I don't think this could be construed by anyone as any kind of racial slur, but these things are all about context, and many colours can offend providing the context is right: the children at my daughter's primary school were once face-painted yellow to represent Chinese people...

Does Darkie Day have racist roots? Well there was a really interesting piece in EDS magazine a while back, which concluded that although blacking up is attributed by many who do it now to the need for disguise, there are hardly any references to morris dancers blacking up before the advent of minstrelsy...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:38 PM

Thanks Ruth,

what ever the original reason is, dancers and such like, have to decide how many people they are prepared to offend. They could also join the living tradition!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:47 PM

How many people does it have to offend?
Too simple a question, I'm afraid. If an activity gives offence to a group, it's an important, but not the only, consideration.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 01:58 PM

Yeah, well, in Madagascar they 'white up' to scare off evil spirits. Sounds logical. And there's the tale of the Morris side + musicians who were blued up and went to a pub on the day of an Everton v Liverpool match and chose a Liverpool (i.e. 'red') pub for lunch. (Or maybe it was the other way round, I can't remember). Pins and dropping covered it.

More seriously, there's all the stuff about 'nigger' minstrels, It's what the musicians call themselves, for chrissake, simply as a musical distinction from white minstrelsy. It's as silly as the 'objections' to blackleg miners (which was a reference solely to their moleskin trousers). A little bit of research wouldn't go amiss . . .

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:02 PM

Yes, I think that is a fair point, but isn't it one starting point?

I think I tried to say above we have two colliding traditions. One is white people blacking up and mocking black people in theatres.

Another is white people blacking up to dance Morris and have Darkie Days. Do this second group really want to offend? It is hard to see why they would? But most of us can thoughtless and insensitive. Rainbow up and move on.

We live in a multicultural society that has much to share, celebrate and enjoy. I danced with Gorton Morrismen, who did not black up, in a school in Longsight, Manchester, where most of the children and parents in the audience were of Asian origin. It was very exciting and a joy to be there. Morris can be and should be dramitic, the drama could not be enhanced by some introduction on the origin of blacking up!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:05 PM

"More seriously, there's all the stuff about 'nigger' minstrels, It's what the musicians call themselves, for chrissake, simply as a musical distinction from white minstrelsy."

This offensive term is ever so much more significant than what some musicians choose to call themselves.

I am quite surprised that you can seek to dismiss this issue in the way you do.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

I am quite surprised that you can seek to dismiss this issue in the way you do

You are? Then I suggest you take it up with the black musicians themselves. As far as I'm concerned, they are entitled to refer to themselves in any way they damn well like without regard to pseudo-PC middle-class, middle-England white bleeding heart bollocks. It's their music, their culture and their right to describe it how they like.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:37 PM

But the n word is a much bigger issue, especially in the mouths of white people. I have discussd it at much length with black friends. Some are not bothered, some are passed caring but many are between uneasy and offended by white people blacking up.

I also understand that "Nigger Minstrels" were all kinds of people performing in a music industry in which they were expoloited largley by white people, in a culture that treated black people extremely badly.

The history of black musicians in the last 100 years shows that that exploitation has continued in many forms. Chuck Berry, for one was endlessly exploited such that other people were paid for the songs he wrote. Yes i know it happened to Buddy Holly aswell. In the end it is said that Chuck would only play for used readies in a bag.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:22 PM

So far I have never seen the word "nigger" described in a dictionary as being derogatory, only descriptive.
Besides, how do I change the colour in my paint box from "Nigger Brown"?
Colyn.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 11:13 PM

I'm sorry: Did you say "Darkie Days"? In the UK that's no different from using the "N" word and anyone from Britain knows that.
No matter what the tradition is supposed to be about, the title is offensive.
Choose another colour.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:24 AM

say nothing, do nothing, think no thoughts, write nothing, dance nowhere,sing no songs, draw nothing, practice no religion, drive nothing, don't walk on the grass 'cos you will offend someone somewhere for some reason. The desire to be offended is limitless

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:30 AM

GUEST,chris - find your suggestions deeply offensive

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:38 AM

(oops! the 'I' went AWOL in my last post. Shd be "I find...")

I was offended when Michael Jackson had his colour changed from 'black' to 'white'. Not because I'm white, but because I felt it was offensive to other black people. But do other black people find it offensive themselves?

(I put the terms 'black' and 'white' in quotes because I hate them - people are not literally black or white, but all shades in between. If I ever have to fill in a form with my ethnic origins, I never put 'White' - I always put 'Other' if there is such an option. I'd like to see more people do likewise, instead of playing into the hands of these PC bureaucrats. How will we ever get rid of racism if these brain-dead jobsworth d*ckheads insist on drawing attention to our differences? That's my 5p worth said. I'll get me coat now)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST,donald
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:14 AM

"I suggest you take it up with the black musicians themselves. As far as I'm concerned, they are entitled to refer to themselves in any way they damn well like without regard to pseudo-PC middle-class, middle-England white bleeding heart bollocks. It's their music, their culture and their right to describe it how they like. "

Quite right, Countess.

It irks me to have these misguided PC pricks constantly dictate what is offensive and what is not. I'm also with the sentiments expressed by The Villan and Fairy Princess above. By the way, I lived in South Africa for 16 years and enjoyed the annual Coon Carnival in Cape Town each year (with my mates of *all* backgrounds): I know them well enough to knaow they'd find the views expressed by the whinging PC's above simply laughable. As Countess says, "they are entitled to refer to themselves in any way they damn well like ".

Oh, and what have you to say about the fine chaps from Nelspruit (SA) who are proud to play good football under the name 'Dangerous Darkies'? again - "they are entitled to refer to themselves in any way they damn well like ".

Totsiens

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:26 AM

"It irks me to have these misguided PC pricks constantly dictate what is offensive and what is not."

We do not dictate, we simply say how feel.

Clearly you make an important point about how people choose to name themselves and why we should respect that. But we have a long history in Western Europe, North America and so on, of treating a number of groups very badly. It has been not uncommon for "white" people to mock and descriminate against "black" people. That is why we are offended by "white" people blacking up for reasons that are often unclear. Our comments here are a very small event, much smaller than people blacking up for what I think is called fun and entertaniment.

What ever reasons you have for supporting these events it is difficult to see the relevance of calling us "pseudo-PC middle-class, middle-England white bleeding heart bollocks." Especially since you have no real idea of who we are.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:26 AM

I haven't read through all of the screed posted this month, but was rather surprised to find this coming up above the parapet again under this title. As far as I understood it, the locals in Padstow have given way, and the event is no longer known as "Darkie Days" (or at least not in public, anyway) - at least that's what we were told by Eddie Upton when he came to our club a week ago. Anyone from the Cornwall contingent able to comment on that, and confirm or otherwise???

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM

"By the way, I lived in South Africa for 16 years and enjoyed the annual Coon Carnival in Cape Town each year (with my mates of *all* backgrounds)"

Well, that makes it all right, then. Since when are "blacks" one homogenous group who all react in the same way to issues which might cause offence? Cultural background, geography, class - all will be contributing factors.

A venue where I used to work once booked the Aka Pygmies for Black History Season - when we told the city's BHS committee, they went spare because Pygmy is apparently considered a pejorative and offensive term by black people in Europe, or at least in Britain. They were actually refusing to put it into the brochure. They even wanted us to pull the show. But the performers in question were a group who self-identified as Pygmies. So was the committee, made up largely of British-born and Caribbean-born black people, wrong to be offended or not? Who is going to define and tell them what they have a right to be offended over? Were the Aka Pygmies right to use this term in Europe, where it might have other connotations? Should someone have discussed this with them, or had they already taken the issue into consideration and decided that they were free to self-identify in whatever way they chose?

These issues are so much more complex than the simple, "but a black person I know thought it was fine..."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 10:31 AM

These issues are so much more complex than the simple, "but a black person I know thought it was fine..."

Good point well put Ruth.

It is upto us all tp be sensitive about causing offence, specially in public places. I cannot imagine that the people of Padstow want to offend anybody. Our country is changing rapidly and I for one think multi-cultural manchester is all the better for that.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Goose Gander
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 10:52 AM

"It is upto us all tp be sensitive about causing offence, specially in public places. I cannot imagine that the people of Padstow want to offend anybody. Our country is changing rapidly and I for one think multi-cultural manchester is all the better for that."

How far are you willing to go with this sort of 'tolerance'? If some people living in your town are offended by women dressed in short skirts or slacks, should the local women refrain so as not to offend anyone?

And shouldn't your open-mindedness also extend to the residents of Padstow? Or are local cultures in the UK disqualified from your special brand of 'tolerance'?

Just wondering, sorry for the thread drift.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Cats
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 10:53 AM

Last year the Merrymakers from Padstow, who have been celebrating 'Darkie days' for centuries, changed the name to Mummers Day. All over the West country you will still find lanes and roads called Darkie Lane or Darkie Road. These have not been changed as they, too, go back centuries. As for it being associated with slavery, there is no historical link with the slave ships and no evidence of a slave ship ever coming into Padstow. The so called afro wigs that are shown in photos, which tend to be from the 1970's, tended to be bright pink or blue, and have not been worn for years anyway, and there has been no singing of 'minstrel ' songs for many, many years. The 'minstrel' songs became part of the general pub singing culture in the 50's and 60's as they toured the pubs and that is what the general people in Padstow, not the Merrymaklers necessarily, were singing then. That was ordinary people joining in with the folk tradition. The people of Padstow black their faces,[when he was alive, the west indian postman in Padstow used to black up too] or black them with a white cross, which is our own Cornish St Pirans Flag, as they have done for centuries, as a form of Guising, which happens, not just in Cornwall but in many other parts of the country too. Guising comes from the term to disguise, and as in Cornwall the easist and most readily available thing to cover faces with was dust from the mine workings, black it is. As this was a form of begging from your neighbours and the people you worked for, people would go in disguise so they would not be recognised. Twice now, Padstow has been brought to the DPP and the CRE only for it to be found that it is not racist and there is no case to answer. This year a magazine contacted all the MP's in Cornwall asking for it, and all other black faced traditions in the country, to be banned. The MP for North Cornwall, Dan Rogerson, who lives in Bodmin and has been going to Padstow for May Day, Darkie/Mummers days and Carols, since he was old enough to bunk off school to go, wrote an excellent and authoritative reply, using examples and information from many eminent folklorists to explain to them exactly what it was all about and about other black faced traditions in the UK. I know. He phoned me from the House of Commons and I was taken out of my classroom to speak to him and I was able to put him in touch with people all over the country who had the sort of credentials required. Mummers Day was covered this year on local television and various catters who were here with me celebrating Christmas were able to see exactly what all the hot air is, or really isn't, about. As therre are so many black faced traditions in this country isn't it about time we stopped picking on Padstow. Until a few years go hardly anyone knew about it including many Padstow people. Not one of the MP's or peope who have 'reported' it to the police or CRE have actually ever been to see it. It has all been done on inaccurate hearsay. If you want to criticise it, then come and see it and find out exactly what it is all about before you make your decision. This year Mike O'Connor has amended the Wikipedia entry about it and added some sources you may wish to research.
And Surreysinger, I am in Cornwall. Think you might have guessed though!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 11:07 AM

"Guising comes from the term to disguise, and as in Cornwall the easist and most readily available thing to cover faces with was dust from the mine workings, black it is. As this was a form of begging from your neighbours and the people you worked for, people would go in disguise so they would not be recognised."

I know that this is one of the received wisdoms about blacking up, but how true is it? As I said earlier, the piece in EDS said that there were only a few documented cases of blacking up associated with morris before the advent of minstrelsy in Britain in the mid 19th century.

Can anyone clever illuminate, please? (And by clever, I mean I'd be grateful if you have attributable sources for your information.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 11:34 AM

No one has yet replied to Michael Morris - funny that.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:23 PM

Cats has made when of the clearest and most useful contributions to this thread.

I would simply make the point again; Some people are uneasy and some people are offended when white people black up.

People may have blacked up for a long time for reasons we only have some undertsanding of. In this country, now, we spend less time thinking about how cultures can offend each other than I think we need to. I suggest no offence would be caused by rainbowing up.

Mike Morris also makes good points and yes it is a two way thing. Men of many faiths and cultures treat women badly and I presume we spaek out when we think it matters and we might have some effect. None of us think that rainbowing rather than blacking will change anything much but we choose to make this point amongst many others.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

Oh,I think that several of us have addressed Michael Morris's comments and been ignored. The prevalent attitude seems to be.
a) We're not offending anyone.
b) Those who are offended, have no right to be.
Kind of deteriorates into name calling after that.
Those who don't know any better, should.
Those who do know better and still continue this sort of behaviour are guilty of bigotry.
As for great Britain not taking part in the slave trade. Your joking, right? Britannia really did rule the waves and it is a very sad truth that we were the Slave Traders.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for coming back on that Cats - I was rather hoping you would, as I'm well aware that you're from that neck of the woods!! Very informative and useful.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Cats
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:59 PM

One of the most well documented cases of blacking up in Cornwall actually comes from the Britannia Coconut Dancers of Bacup. Their dances were, reputably, brought up from Cornwall by the Cornish miners who went all over the world in the 17 and early 18th centuries. That is why they black up and wear black trousers and tops and black their hands as well. Another form of guising, would have been to wear masks, but not in this part of the country. Some of the most amazing guise masks I have seen were in the mountains in Bulgaria. The tradition of guising is well documented in Cornwall and other towns, not only Padstow, have guising traditions still which take other forms. E.g. In the twin villages of Kingsand and Cawsand at New Year, just about every single person in the area dresses up and goes out into the streets. If you ask the older people why they do it you might get the answer, 'because my family have been doing this for centuries' and if you ask the teenagers they will tell you it is because 'it has always been done'.   Virtually the same thing but in their own words. If you google mummers in Cornwall you will come up with the words, in dialect, to the 1760 Cornish Mummers Play which has a character called Jambo, who is black faced. He calls for money, ie begging. The original of this is in the Public Records Office in Truro. As I suggested, you might like to look up the excellent references given by Mike on the Wikipedia site which will give you historic authenticity, although as you are still asking for it, I presume you have already looked at them? It also seems that people are confused as to what happens on Mummers day. There is no dancing nor is there a play. A small group of people, about 25 or so, black up and walk through the town playing and singing. The majority of songs they sing are regarded by folkies as 'Cornish' [ and that's a whole new topic]. They have with them collecting tins in which they collect money for local charities or to be given to local families in need, i.e. they walk the streets and go into the pubs, blacked up and guising. In other parts of Cornwall guising would mean dancing through the streets and there are collesctions of Guise dance tunes available from Merv Davey, and Cam Kernewek. Merv is the Piper who leads the Cornish Gorsedd and was honoured as a Bard for sevices to Cornish Music, as was Mike O'Connor. Both of these are eminemt folklorists who have a great in depth knowledge of the music and traditions of Cornwall.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 02:07 PM

"Darkie" is offensive. You know that and you continue to lend it your support.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Cats
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 02:07 PM

PS Jim Lad, I meant that there were no slave ships in Padstow as one of the things said about Mummers Day was that it came from when a slave ship landed in Padstow and the local people saw the slaves dancing on the quay and copied them. Now, no slave ship ever landed in Padstow, No slave ship would ever tie up in the harbour right in the middle of town, as that is where it is, and whoever heard of a slave ship letting the slaves up onto the quay to dance and relax? I am aware of the slave trade in the UK, I used to teach about it, but didn't mean that. Perhaps you didn't realise the Mummers Day / slave connection.. or rather non connection.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Padstow 'Darkie Days'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 02:12 PM

Thanks Cats, you bring much education to this thread.

I would simply make the point again and again and again; Some people are uneasy and some people are offended when white people black up.


I would go with Jim Lad:

"Those who don't know any better, should.
Those who do know better and still continue this sort of behaviour are guilty of bigotry."

If the "Darkies" have become "Mummers" why can't the rainbow up?

I think it is academically, in the true sense of the word, unsound to seek knowledge from the alledged history of most Morris.

I am glad that the ealier abuse has left this thread. It was begining to feel if some of those people were just simply abusive.