Shearing in the bar

Subject: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 11:19 PM

Hi all,

Does anyone have the background to Duke Triton's song Shearing in the Bar.

I seem to remember that it is sung to the tune "Wearing of the Green" is this correct?

If so, does anyone have the nitty gritty on the song "Wearing of the Green" and the origin of the tune?

Dont suppose there is a gaelic variant?

Seeya

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 12:11 AM

G'day Percustard,

When Duke Tritton started singing this song, he had When Irish Eyes are Smiling in mind ... but it doesn't seem to have stayed in fact. He said he "... had to chop down the high bits ...". I have never heard it sung to Wearing of the Green.

The tune used for Wearing of the Green is one of a number of Scottish tunes originally set to poems of Tannahill (other significant examples are Ye Bonny Wood of Craigielea, adapted for Waltzing Matilda and Braes of Balquither which was worn down, in Ulster, to Wild Mountain Thyme. Dion Buocicault (sp?...!...?), author of the (c.) 1848 play Arragh na Pogh (sp?...!...?) used the tune for Shaun the Post's song Wearing of the Green.

Does that sound Gaelic enough (in all aspects)?

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 12:17 AM

G'day again,

Oh yes ... I should have mentioned that Duke wrote the song on his first shearing job, probably up the Hunter Valley region of New South Wales, in 1905. This was his reaction to his first experience of drinking with a bunch of boastful workers. The final two verses were added later ... and updated, in respect of transport used, once or twice.

In respect of When Irish Eyes are Smiling, I have always assumed that this is an American sentimental ballad written for the Irish/American market ... but there is a Ned Kelly song: Farewell to Greta that was collected in the 1950s with a tune that appears to be the first part of When Irish Eyes are Smiling. Just when the words - and this tune - got together is not easily traced.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:31 PM

Hi Bob and all,

Hmmmm, this is sounding interesting. Perhaps we should chase up "Farewell to Greta" and "When Irish eyes are smiling". That sounds like a goer actually.

Dont suppose "Irish Eyes" has gaelic roots? The idea of a Gaelic rendition of "Irish Eyes" segueing(?) into Farewell to Greta.

I'll go looking and get back (if anyone's interested).

Seeya

Mark

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:40 PM

Dont suppose anyone has the MIDI for "Farewell to Greta"?

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:55 PM

Link the Farewall to Greta:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=7856#47561

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:18 PM

G'day Percustard,

I just posted this in the Ned Kelly's Farewell to Greta thread:

"Alan of Australia has a separate MIDI resource site that you can access from the box at the top of the Mudcat Forum front page. This should give you a MIDI file that will play in any computer media player (even one in a Mac!).

If this tune is not yet in Alan's stash, I can e-mail the MIDI directly to you."

I guess that, if the tune is Rossa's Farewell to Erin ... then When Irish Eyes are Smiling, which is an American composition by an Irish/American, must be 'based' on it. (Lots of interesting things that Tursacan might do with that!)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:35 PM

HMMM

Weaving a song out of "...Farewell to Greta", "Irish Eyes...", Rossa's Farewell... and "Shearing in the Bar".

It definitely has potential.

All I have to do is pull all the threads together.

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:38 AM

ER ... G'day Percustard,

As I (had in fact already) mentioned in the Ned Kelly's Farewell to Greta Thread ... there are two tunes to this song ... Rossa's Farewell ... was set to the collected words by Meredith because the Australian words were clearly based on the the Irish song. Subsequently, the song was collected with the other tune ... related to Irish Eyes ... but not to Rossa's Farewell .... ... oh well - it did sound like a good idea at the time!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:17 PM

Sorry Bob.

I thick as a brick sometimes.

So Rossa and Greta are not cousins?

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 11:10 PM

G'day mate ...

Well, I did not go back and check my own posting either! I could hear the other version in my mind and it did not occur to me that I should go and look at the dots ...

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:11 AM

We dinna pairmit sheep in ony o' the bars hereaboots. They cannae hold their whiskey and they canna play darts. If ye want tae fraternize wi' sheep, ye'd best be advised tae do it in the fields and the heather, and resairve the bars for when ye're needin' a wee drappie, lads.

- LH

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:15 AM

Dinna take oos Oarsees to literally laddie!

Many an activity take place at the pub down under. Exagerated stories are the norm.

A good story is as good as being there!

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 08:02 PM

Hi all,

It turns out that Duke Tritton said he modelled the tune for Shearing in the Bar on "...Irish Eyes..." but it turns out that it actually sounds more like "Wearin' o the Green" (from the book "Duke of the Outback").

So, I might start a new thread that looks at the origins etc of "Wearin" o the Green".

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:21 PM

G'day Mark/Percustard (= slow drummer ... ? ... ;-)

I think you just need to do a search on Wearing of the Green to find several discussions on the origing ... and a good few fights! (Sometimes started by me.)

BTW: I gather you got your book at Da Capo ... you were there about 10 minutes before I called by.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 12:42 AM

Great stuff! I am going to add this to the Song Origins Permathread. Thanks, guys!

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Percustard
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:20 AM

I am sorry to have missed you at the Dapo bookshop Bob.

Thanks again for you help in finding Therese Radic's book.

A mine of info but I think John Meredith's works on working folk are more thorough.

Nonetheless there are a few tunes in Radic's book that Meredith's works dont have in them.

Seeya

Mark

Subject: RE: Shearing in the bar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:14 AM

G'day again Mark,

That's the strength of Radic's collections ... she grabs all the good stuff - but she does tell you where she got it from - and comments intelligently on the social, historiacal and musical aspects.

I know that some fairly 'prickly' collectors (such as John Meredith and Alan Scott) were quite happy with her treatment of their collecting work. You can treat her books as a 'sampler', from which you get leads on good sources for more material.

Regards,

Bob Bolton