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MIDI Volunteer Sought
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:18 PM Mark, if you have not already done 27, I think the best thing to do would be to make one longish MIDI showing the variations as they would be sung... as if you were doing several verses adding variations where you think they might feel right. If you can lyric-match, you can be the boat man! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:41 PM Two copies of #27 left here at 5:31 PM CST, one to each of your email addresses as requested. Your post (9:18) was nearly three hours later. I'm surprised you haven't seen it. When you do see it, you'll find that all variations are in a single MIDI file and with synced lyrics as usual. I put four measures of rest in between the variations as separators. I also sent a PDF of the score so you could see what I was doing. One question I haven't asked though… I've only been lyric-matching the first verse of the songs. The remaining verses have been set below the score. Would you prefer each verse lyric-matched in between the staffs like a church hymnal? Another question has to do with MIDI's representation of key signatures. Some of the songs are in Mixolydian mode and I've been entering them that way. When you process the MIDI files, is the mode retained in any way except to note the sharps and flats? Some of the songs use the fermata (bird's eye) and I've been carefully entering those as well. What I don't know is how the fermata is expressed in the MIDI file. Hopefully they come through properly. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:00 AM Yes I know you have been putting lyrics in, I just thought it would be a challenge on that particular song because the music they show is so vague. (I had posted before checking email-- Mudcat always comes up first, then mail.) At first I thought I only got the PDF for 27, and saw no MIDI attached, but I just looked again and it is there. Something about the way the message displayed only showed the one attachment-- I dunno what's up with that! Not counting multiple/reworked submissions, PDFs and NWCs duplicating the MIDIs, we have 57 of these things done! I ought to count up who has done how many, but I have not kept track that way. This is great work you are doing. I feel so lucky to be working with you all. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:27 AM Marl-- Sorry-- I AM tired!-- you asked: One question I haven't asked though… I've only been lyric-matching the first verse of the songs. The remaining verses have been set below the score. Would you prefer each verse lyric-matched in between the staffs like a church hymnal? Lord no! We're all getting old too fast to take THAT much time! Just the first verse so it's easy to see how the tune falls on the text. I'm not having any trouble transferring the learned tune to the succeeding verses, even just on first read/hear of the MIDI and lyric. In fact, you do not really need to add the rest of the verses below the score. It might be a help to someone who wants to play from the printout of the MIDI, but IMO anyone wanting to perfrom these is going to have their work cut out for them unless they stick with unaccompanied singing from a word-sheet, and they will have to customize the songs with a lot of lyric adaptations. They should do that work themselves-- I know I will have to! Also, including more than the verse printed in the page image might verge on an uncomfortable copyright problem-- Dover does still have the book in print I believe, unless those were remaindered copies I saw at Elderly for about 8 bucks! The folks at DocSouth (the site with the collection posted) are very nervous about anything appearing to suggest copyright trespasses. What I am hoping they will decide to run is just a single page of links as an appendix to their existing book material, a menu by song number that you could open in a separate window while looking at the page itself, and click to play the tune. Remember, for a lot of people, they will never see the MIDI itself, because it will tend to open itself in Windows Media Player or WinAMp. If the user is sophisticated enough to open it in a notation program, IMO they will be sophisticated enough to modify it for their own use. Thus they will have made "fair use" (IMO) of the material-- personal study and their own lyric and arrangement, so no trespass on the print version or the now-out-of-print Jerry Silverman arrangements. Anyway that's how I hope the DocSouth people will see it. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:59 AM Mark, the references I have found on MIDI seem to suggest meta event hex 59 for key signatures. It appears to have "sf" in a range of -7 to + 7 to indicate the no of sharps and flats and "mi" in range 0 to 1 to indicate whether a tune is minor or major. My version of Cakewalk appears to only consider major keys, at least for purposes of entry. The only one I looked at with that was the Blacksmith from our site where it is given as DDor - if I go to the Cakewalk thing to change key, the existing entry is C major. I could be wrong but I would guess for example that DMix simply gets converted to G, etc. Again, I'm not sure but I suspect abc is pretty unusual in its recognition of the modes. Phil Taylor once sorted us out at folkinfo on getting all our abcs showing correctly using Barfly which is able to suggest the most likely mode for a tune but I'm not sure where we stand now - I know I for one am not capable of recognising most of them. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:26 AM Thanks, Jon. I'm pretty shakey on mode recognition myself. But when a tune has a single F# as a key signature (key of G major) but the melody always resolves on a D, I figure it's Dmix even without trying to sing or play the tune. Of course a musician sight reading the lead sheet probably wouldn't care, they'd just think of it as one sharp and let it go at that. But perhaps programs like Neil Jennings' HARMONY would generate different chords and harmonies for Dmix and Gmaj. Susan, I'm no expert on copyright but I think anything copyrighted in 1867 is now safely in the public domain. That doesn't mean that more recent dirivative works aren't protected but the original work has surely passed all copyright expiration criteria. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: pavane Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:36 AM Yes, HARMONY does generate different chords for modes, but you need to tell it the tune is modal, by the key (K:) command. Harmony also does do a check when generating chords, and puts up a warning if the key signature appears to be incorrect, based on start and end notes. If possible, it suggests a possible key or mode. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: pavane Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:41 AM And yes, you are right. MIDI does not have any separate way of representing modes. The analysis of code (hex)59 is correct. This is a 'meta-event' and is just documentary, it has no effect on the sound produced. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:40 AM Mark, since Dover republished the book, I would bet there's a new copyright from that date..... but so much of what Dover publishes, they OK for additional non-commercial use, so I'd want to see the book and what they say on it about copyright. Joe Offer has it; maybe he'll wander in. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM List update: I now have: 19 Go in the wilderness 20 Tell my Jesus "Morning" 20b Tell my Jesus "Morning" variation 27 Heaven bell a-ring 31 Michael row the boat ashore 32 Sail, O believer 33 Rock o' Jubilee It would be helpful to get a clone note inserted in my update messages when the updates are done, or a date of update in the updated list. Mmario's initial note was that the title would be removed when proofing and editing was done on any tune. I'd prefer a separate list for that process-- I'd like to leave the list itself intact. OK? Thanks, all! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:59 PM I just finished 31 thru 40. I'll do 41 thru 50 next. So far: (not finished, but working on...) 1-20 Mary 21-30 Mark 31-40 Mary 41-50 Mary 51-73 Mark 74-82 MMario 129-136 MMario |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:17 PM TEAM: And what is Miss Susan doing????? I'm going through the text notes, annotating each song with my little pencil, according to the introductory notes. This will give me some guidance as I listen and critique (cringe) the MIDIs. When I get into the song-by-song review, do y'all want me to do alterations, or do you want us to discuss them first song by song, or do you want to do them yerselves with just general guidance/suggestions from me? In other words, how shall we continue this happy, cooperative anarchy once the raw inputting is done? Do you want to proof each other's inputs before I go through them? However, is fine with me! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM Susan, I meant to tell you that I've left all the tempos at the Cakewalk default, which in 2/4 time is IMO a little fast. But I haven't read many of the notes. On "Michael Row the Boat Ashore, #31" I think I read where there were typically a certain number of rows when working against the current ;-) I'll defer to your judgment! I would like to somehow proof them though, since I can't easily see my own typos. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:53 PM I've been setting all tempos at 90 crotchets per minute. This is rather like the Mad Hatter's watch, when you hear one that sounds exactly right, it's supposed be sung at 90 crotchets per minute. I'll be happy to make changes and corrections if you'd like. That way I'll have corrected ABC files which I regard as more valuable than the MIDIs. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:14 PM OK. I'm finding about 80 is the max for tempo on most. I'm going to check out some shanty tempos too, for the rowing songs/shouts. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:41 PM I finished 41 thru 50. I'll probably be away for a few days... I'll see what needs to be done later. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: MMario Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:47 PM WOW! you guys have done a lot! |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:59 PM My hard drive runneth over! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:31 PM Should be: 74-83 MMario Let's see, Mark's working on 51-73... That leaves: 1-50 done 51-73 under way 74-83 done 84-128 not yet claimed 129-135 done I have undertaken a new filenaming convention on my end only. As I get them and save them, I add your intials to the filename-- ss001mk was done by Mary in Kentucky, the mm's are done by Mmario, the mc's by Mark. (The M-Squad!) This means that if you get one back from me, you will know who did it, you will know I have at least listened to it and found no glaring weirdnesses in it, and you will know that it may have been altered by me as to tempo, repeats, lyrics corrected/added. You will know you can save it without losing your original version, and it will make it easier for me to send you each others' inputs for a quick proof check. Then as you resend them to me you can add to the filename-- add The order in which I review them more carefully (my immediately-next round, starting tomorrow) will be according to the groupings in the intro, where the songs are given some description as to the type they were-- shouts, rowing songs, organized worship, secular, etc.-- or the origin, as in some that are marked as probably-all-original or probably-partially-derived from white music. Follow me? I need your ideas for naming a type-- the slow ones. Moans, Mourns? Laments? Groans? You know what I mean? Some of these only sound TRUE melodically if they go way slow, and the words for these are pretty dark. Whaddaya wanna christen them? (Later they founded the blues.) Slower than a shout, slower than a rowing song, really SLOW. Excruciants? We need a word to refer to these among ourselves. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST Date: 04 Jan 04 - 09:01 PM Mark, with sound being the issue for this project, this is off topic and I don't know your feelings on the subject but later versions of abcm2ps do allow "%%printtempo 0". This IMO can be useful if you want to suggest a tempo for a MIDI but do not want to presume or suggest that your Q: tempo suggestion is authorative or show it in print. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:50 AM Jon, Thanks for the tip. I can see that feature will be useful. Susan, I just sent you a few more. They should show up soon. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:07 AM dolefuls? |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:12 AM I'll be working backworkd from 129 |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:26 AM Mark's 51-54 with variations, received. Go MMario! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM OK, I am into the next layer of working on these, studying the text notes that precede the Table of COntents (TOC). I had to completely reorganize, enlarge, and refurnish my home office to be ready to work today! I've cross-referenced the notes into the song pages so that as I get to each song I can check back on the commentary.... there is some clear guidance on xliii &ff about fitting text to tune, refrain lines/choruses; I read this as congruent with my experience of the genre in general where what Allen is calling the refrain equates to the response part of a call/response pattern, where there may or may not also be a consistent chorus that includes or builds on the refrain (response). In addition to using the commentary hints, I anticipate that as I absorb each tune in my head it will arrange itself into the kind of pattern I know from working with other spirituals and hundreds of black gospel songs, extensions from the spirituals or founded in them.... my goal is to "catch" what the songs meant to the people, and the feelings that underlay the song structures, so that as I work on them I can let them move in their own way. I am so grateful to the Lomaxes for the LOC collection of authentically-sung spirituals! That's my main Berlitz school for the tune-language and structural expression-- it's all in my head. As far as the really slow ones, and naming that type, the Allen text has a word I just noticed: "strainfull"... for things in life and concepts that are deep, difficult, and troubling. Because, as quoted on xxii, "it can't be sung widout a full heart and a troubled sperrit." So, "strain"s? I'm going to start with the rowing/shouting songs: 5 8 14 17 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 36 46 47 52 INPUTTERS PLEASE NOTE I'm mindful of how these will actually be USED once they are made acccessible online. They need to approximate how a singer would actually SING them, as whole songs. Therefore-- For any new inputs, PLEASE copy/paste as needed to include the repeats indicated, and if it has a chorus, two runs of the chorus (once and then a repeat) even if the repeat of the chorus is not indicated in the dots. (This is correct, per commentary.) Please continue to put whole-tune variations in separate (b) tune files. (These are really version-- variants-- not variations.) Please handle phrase-length variations by incorporating them in the tune-- a verse or two of the regular tune, then a verse with the variation, etc. There are some hints in the commentary that they tried this approach too, where you may find a song that has lots of lines but the text repeats within it? That's what they were doing-- giving a representative version of how and where a variation might be used, but making clear in the commentary that their placement of it is arbitrary and that the singer would vary when and where they were so moved. As I work though the submitted songs, I'll make these modifications if needed if they are simple copy/pastes; otherwise I'll bounce them back to the original inputter for a little restructuring. I don't think of any of the already-submitted songfiles as wrong, or as wasted effort; most of these structural changes are simple copy/paste edits. OK? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Jan 04 - 01:20 PM .... also, please use a double-bar-line to separate verses, repeats, etc. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Jan 04 - 01:25 PM 124 125 125b 126 127 128 ... received from Mmario. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:42 AM List update: I now have: 55 I can't stand the fire 123 Lean on the Lord's side ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 11:26 AM Regarding voicing-- a. What would have been the traditional instruments in Africa at the slaves' point of origin? b. What instruments would they have had at their disposal on the plantation? Banjo, harmonica, a few fiddles? Kalimba? MIDI banjo in the voice range given is awful. Xylo, vibes, marimba? Choir ooh/aah is awful.... ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 07 Jan 04 - 12:19 PM I suspect most would have been unaccompianied. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 02:03 PM Yes I KNOW that, but what instrument would we use now for the MIDI, if it could be one they HAD then. If we want to aim for anything close to inoffensively, possibly appropriate? I gotta tell y'all, I'm pretty freaked out. I have a half dozen or so I have worked on now, and to approximate how these would have been done back then, I think I am going to have to take some liberties with the admittedly-limited understanding Allen had. I'd rather not do it ALL my way, so if I could at least make a "good" decision on the voicing it would help! :~) Imagine, you;re opening the Allen site, and out comes blasting a distortion guitar! It sounds-- well, frankly, pretty cool! But---- ????!?!?!?!?!!!! See my predicament? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 07 Jan 04 - 02:07 PM well - I can see the point - but for learning how a melody SOUNDS - I've found the chorused piano to be the best. Now if we could actually do up wav files of instruments.... |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 03:25 PM As I work through these, I am noticing that the original collectors and/or the typographers did not observe modern notation convention as to indicating different endings. This means that a song may start on a pickup note (fragment of a measure) and end in a full measure, so that if one played or sang it exactly as typeset, one would throw the rhythm off completely as each verse began. This is equally frequent in their handling of internal repeats and in how the pieces moves from verse to chorus. Add to this the fact that these songs came to the authors from a variety of collectors, each with their own haboits in notation-- not unlike our own happy threesome trying to further distill it now! An example of how this would be handled now is the Fiddler's Fakebook, where there is no chunk of time left unclear and it all adds up in as few staff lines as possible, with first and second endings clearly marked among the repeat signs, etc. In order to let these play as actual WORK songs, I've adjusted the durations at endings so that it all fits. And you can hear, in the Lomax LOC collection of sound files, that the basic beat of a song was never the thing altered. There might be changes in TEMPO, but the beat was everything. So I am confident, because I also sing these, that the alterations are correct, being corrective more than interpretive liberties. In the commentary text, the authors invite improvements that flow from better understanding. I can't say I was THERE at the time these wre collected, but I do have one advantage the authors didn't have-- hundreds and hundreds of hours listening, as a learner who transmits them like the spirituals were transmitted-- in group singing; listening to the interpretations of people only a generation later than that of this collection, and the black gospel and blues that flowed forward. So again, I am confident that the alterations are correct and would be necessary to anyone trying to sing these as authentically created. I would bet that similar "changes" have been made for the most recent Dover edition, which I understand includes "clarifications" on timing and pitches. (We are doing our own, however, so that we do not infringe on Dover's copyright. Ours are unique arrangements.) I don't think I really understood till now that what we are doing amounts to a new edition. Plus, the lyrics-- the collectors got these from solo singers, but the songs would usually have been sung in group, and usually with the call/response pattern we know. Knowing this presents further opportunities to clarify what the authors indicate is a fuzzy sense of matching lyrics to tunes, as to how to structure them! I guess since it's most likely I'll be doing these for folks first, I'll have to tackle that issue as I arrive at it, and if I do them all, it will amount to a new edition of sorts. (Yikes!) A notation program issue, I think-- I'm working now mostly on pieces Mary and Mark did. A number of measures show up in NWC with quarter notes or rests where the page scan indicates an 8th. I'm restoring the 8ths except as noted, down below the bar, in my post. 31 - Back to Mary for some changes on handling the variations. 32 - Will also go back to Mary for changes on handling the variations. Several others are on hold till Mary and Mark and I agree on how to correct what started as ABCs so Mark can have his correct and still in ABC. ~Susan ================================================================== Updating the list of songs now in the proofing/revision process, first posted 05 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM: 005 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, internal repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working & rowing rhythm. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 008 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, internal repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working & rowing rhythm. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 014 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, internal repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working/rowing rhythm. I believe the words as matched to the tune in Allen are one of many ways of matching/structuring the tune with the verse/refrain/chorus, as Allen indicates is frequently the case, in the commentary. I've set it up so that the verse goes through one melody pattern, then another, then a chorus that repeats. The songs plays through twice in this pattern. I'm not done with this one yet-- 14b should also be included within 14 as one more verse variation, and I'll need to move the chorus so it plays between the verse variations. Saved as NWC only pending further work. 28 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working & rowing rhythm. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 29 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working & rowing rhythm. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 30 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Note durations altered as needed for fitting repeats within regularity of working & rowing rhythm. Saved as NWC and MIDI. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 05:40 PM A few more "completed" this afternoon. Moved along in the pipeline anyhow. :~) And hey, remember-- there's three of you but only one of me! :~) ~S~ ============================================================ 033 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, no internal repeats (none indicated in page scan), entire song plays twice. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 046 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, three sections with internal repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Saved as NWC and MIDI. 047 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, three sections with internal repeats as indicated in page scan, entire song plays twice. Saved as NWC and MIDI. I believe that the second of the three sections is actually just a repeat of the first section, with the third as a chorus, and this would make lyric matching simpler as well. 052 - tempo q72, voiced as vibraphone, no internal repeats (none indicated in page scan), changed final ending note to a half note. Entire song plays twice. Saved as NWC and MIDI. ============================================================= Except for those being re-worked by Mark and Mary, listed above, and my own work on those, I believe this completes the revision of the rowing songs. When Mary is back, and I have Mary and Mark's resubmissions, I'll send the lot around to the group to hear as MIDIs and if we agree they are "done" I'll ask Pene to post them in the Mudcat MIDIs for now. (I like them well enough to post them as they are now, but I want the group's feedback.) Or we may open an "Allen Slave Songs" thread for posting miditext, links to Mudcat MIDIs, and reworked lyrics. The next group will be the slow ones we're going to call "strains." I'll be voicing them in another instrument and we can post them as a group as well. I have no idea how many there may be that are best sung that way-- have to listen through all the MIDIs submitted and pick some. The "strains" will be those even slower than a "shout." The commentary indicates that many, many of the 136 songs can be used either for shouts or for work/worship, so I would expect that the bulk of the remainder, after the strains, will be shouts or faster. My proofing skills are speeding up from doing these slower rowing songs, so this is a good order to take them in! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:11 PM I sent #31 and #32 back to Susan. Both had what appeared to be harmony notes, but as she noted, they were indications of different variations. I made two separate midis for each song. Neither had repeats, so I'll have to see how to do that when I get another bounce back. Also the naming convention...I'll have to PM Susan until I get it right. These were real easy changes to make...it's just a little difficult to know how to handle the various questions on consistency until I do a few. One reason it's so easy is that I'm using the staff view in Cakewalk. I can't imagine trying to keep the ABC straight. (But then again, ABC is hard for me to read and hear.) I'll be able to proof them easily just by hearing them and following along in the staff view. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:17 PM Hi, Mary. I'll work #31 and its variation together in "repeats" so you can see what I am doing, and I can do 32 the same way unless you want to. I should have your two and Mark's resubmissions tomorrow and might get them done; that would complete the rowing songs before I strike out on a new batch Monday. (I'm pretty much non compos mentis for Fridays and weekends, with church involvements.) Glad you're "back!" ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:03 AM OK, I'll bring this one out into the open. Another query to the group-- hey, how about all those "titty"s in the song texts?? According to the commentary, "Titty" equates to "honored older female relative,"-- Auntie, Sister, Mother, etc. Titty and Brudder, as titles or generic names of sisters, brothers, aunties, uncles, etc. I do not think it denotes "wet-nurse".... rather a pronunciation thing. I could be wrong but I don't think a sister would be a wet-nurse, so.... Just so you know-- yes, input it just like the scnas have it, but I ain't gonna sing it that way! Hardi and I are discussiing options! I think it depends on the verse text, what word would give the best sound/context: Little Pretty Sister Sissy Sitty Any more ideas? :~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:07 AM Aunty? thus keeping the meaning,the scansion, and at least the last half of the rhyming sound. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 08 Jan 04 - 03:59 PM Just don't go and change Sister Mary! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:44 PM She's changeless! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:04 PM RE: Tempo & Mood Considerations Wow, it's amazing how different these sound at different speeds. I'm listening through all the non-rowing songs submitted, to estimate possible best tempo and take a quick look for any huge errors requiring I bounce them back to the inputters. I'm finally starting to understand (as a musician) a lot of the written commentary that has accompanied printed collections of spirituals--- "... songs .... expressing the deepest feelings...." A lot of that comes from the tempo choices.... and so many of these can sound so many different ways, just by changing the tempo! The same song that a weary mother uses to rock a baby to sleep late at night can rouse the field hands before first light, with simple tempo changes! As I listen, I'm mindful of interpretations by people such as the Lomax sources (LOC) and the Georgia Sea Islanders. In these, some songs are solos and some are leader/group; some are all-group. I think tempo would have a lot to do with mood and setting, but also whether solo or group. A number of them are so sprightly or so obviously calling-out/announcing, it's easy to see that they may have been used to gather people up for a meeting. Others are so mournful they make me picture someome weary and soulsick, very, very alone-- singing just to try to take the edge off the hurt. Tempo also depends on whether the piece mostly consists of quarter and eighth notes, or eighths and sixteenths. Some pieces have so many turns and trills and other ornaments indicated, there are certain speeds that would be unsafe to try! I'm working out some ideas about how to post the MIDIs, with Mmario, since he has had so much experience via the Tune Hunt and since he's worked with Joe & Pene and Dick & Susan for quite some time now. What I think our posted MIDIs can aim for is tempo varieties, such that a representative picture of the possibilities emerges... to set tempo interpretively but making clear that people using these should adapt them as they see fit.... to provide a survey of moods but not, in any way, dictate interpretation, or suggest what is "right," or pretend to be "accurate." The genre itself defies these narrow limits, but now, so many years after their creation it can be easy (especially for notation-oriented folks) to see a piece and assume that how they encounter it is THE arrangement. So when we post these it will be important to clarify this point and encourage experimentation. Here's how I am hearing many of the songs: q32-44 Slow, mournful strain; prayer; exhortation. Real tearjerker; maybe sung when alone and weary, despairing. q50 Serious; prayer; maybe a very slow shout; maybe a lullabye. q56-60 Stately, dignified hymn; slow shout; some rowing tunes. q68 Hymn in a "real" church setting. q70-80 All-purpose; moderately fast shout; most rowing tunes. q90-110 Call to meeting or worship, sung at the meeting entry to gather folks or sung by those coming to the gathering to pick up stragglers and indicate direction. q130 Rousing hymn; celebratory. q144 Playtime; keeping the children occupied or at work. Of course tempo also would vary during the singing of a song. I know this because when I exercise in deep water, I have to start slow and easy and then come up to speed as I warm up and get loose. These work songs have the same effect. At worship, or when passing this song to others for the first time, same thing; I know this from my own songleading-- start slow to teach the tune, singing all the parts; go faster and let the parts fall into a call/response pattern as people catch it and start to move with it. Fiddle tune jams, the same-- play to the slowest common denominator to introduce the tune; and gain speed as people get some facility with the A and B parts and the switches between them; aim for the "groove" where most of the players are playing beyond their usual skill level and breaking a happy sweat in full communion with one another. Stay in the groove as long as it's working. These features don't just pertain to tempo. Phrasing, blue notes, all of the interpretative aspects vary as to use and situation. When you bring one of these songs to life, it can be done so many ways, it's more than one life! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 10 Jan 04 - 11:51 PM Very interesting, Susan. Do you have the ability to change the tempos of the MIDIs we're sending? If not, feel free to let me know how you'd like each one set. I notice at the bottom of page xliv, Allen says: As regards the tempo, most of the tunes are in 2-4 time, and in most of these [quarter note] = 100--(say)100-120. The spirit of the music will determine the tempo within these limits. The slower tunes are 1, 3, 9, 17, 21, etc. No. 2 is about [quarter note] = 160-180, and perhaps had better have been written in 3-8. So No. 13 would be better in 2-4; as it is, the [quarter note] = 160-170. No. 24 should be read as if divided in 2-4, with [quarter note] = 100. The tempo of the rowing tunes has been already indicated.Is your interpretation of tempos informed by Allen's advice here or are you relying on your experience with other music of this genre? Also, I interpret the last note as meaning Allen, et al., may not have published the scores in the same key in which they were heard. Do you make that interpretation as well? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 11 Jan 04 - 12:35 AM Yes, Mark, I think Allen means they were moved to the keys shown, and IMO they are way too high! There is something else about the Allen group's collection process that bothers me. I would bet, although they are tantalizingly incomplete in their remarks about this, that the people transcribing these would importune Old Joe or Titty Marta to sing to them so they could write down songs. As a solo. OK, but that ain't how they'd have really DONE them! When I teach a new one, I have to sing ALL the parts-- the call AND the response, the verse and the chorus, any ornamentation-- until the group has gotten the pattern and the tune and the feel of it. (Like all of what you see on a page in the Allen material.) But-- once the group gets it, my part becomes much more like the coxswain in a boat, or like the leader in an oldfashioned black gospel recording, or like the lead shouter probably led the shouts in slave times. The leader's part is clear, in every recorded spiritual I have ever heard, and distinctly separate from the rest of the piece, even if the leader sometimes sings parts of the response, too. Yet in the Allen collection, the notation gives almost no hint that some phrases are called out by the leader and the rest are responses.... and unless you know that this is a characteristic of the genre-- in MANY songs the most prominent characteristic-- you'd never know it from picking up an Allen piece, and IMO the commentary is not clear enough about this except for a few references to "basing." It's tempting to think the melodies are written down wrong, where the intervals take an odd jump, not realizing there's a group of people about to chime in on the song, for whom that is THE phrase, THE interval to sing, exactly! OK, rant off.... Yes I can change tempo... right now I am just sifting through the ones submitted, and unless they need other wrok I'm just going to adjust the tempo as I do the repeats. But I would encourage you to have some fun on the next ones you work on-- try out some of the tempi I outlined and see how you think they should go. And yes, I have incorporated Allen's remarks into the increasing understanding I have of this genre; as I indicated in an earlier post, there have been several periods in the last 10 years when I was immersed in hearing the spirituals as performed by a number of people in a number of different time periods. (Love the Bahamian boat guys!) From all the stylistic creativity their recordings have captured, I've somehow gotten a pretty good ear for what they all have in common, such as the blue notes (where and when and why they occur), the pace and mood, the richness of the vocal quality.... When I play the MIDIs you three have created, there are several speeds at which, suddenly, I might as well be hearing a human voice sing them-- they come THAT alive. I can hardly do more than 8 or 9 quick listens, to 4 or 5 songs, before I feel like I have to sing along with these non-present people! It's kinda eerie, and very cool. I can't wait to do these in church with our highly-responsive Saturday Night crowd. I'll be doing them in the new way I discovered several months ago, and I guess maybe I'll say more about that later in the week. I would say, for now, pick a tempo you think feels right when you listen to the next ones you have input. Send it to me that way; who knows, maybe it'll stick! :~) BTW I have been looking at the Hampton collection. Drat! It's all harmonies! :~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 11 Jan 04 - 12:38 AM PS-- but I am leaving them in the key Allen chose, or this would all be useless. If and when I learn any given piece to present, I change it for my own use only, as I would any material we work up for church. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 14 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM Don't pay the ransom, I've escaped. Susan, I haven't abandoned you, I've just been really busy. I'm directing a local production of Paul Osborn's Morning's At Seven and this is the first week of rehearsals. So I'm spending a lot of time worrying about sets, blocking, character analysis and the like. Should be better next week. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jan 04 - 04:12 PM Thanks Mark. That's OK, I been slacking, myself. Too many tunes stuffed in my head, taking a few days off. Back to check out the ones you and Mary re-did, before anything else. While we slack off, BTW, Mmario and I are discussing ways to include them in Mudcat MIDIs. These are a bit unusual in that the lyrics will stay at the Allen site, not in threads here. We're talking how to make it simplest to see Allen and hear MIDI, basically, and how much detail we need to post about each one.... most likely in a thread that will index the lot of them. You know, tempo and other details, etc. Once we get that figgered out (and I finish the few that are pending from the rowing songs), as far as I know, we'll hang up the first batch. We can use it as a little test, see if we like how we set it up, refine it if necessary. So, time is NOT being wasted! Have fun! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 15 Jan 04 - 12:47 PM me bad! I've been off on another forum (forgive me!) "translating" knitting patterns from the late 1800's. But I just sent a few more off to WYSIWYG. #'s 119 - 122 |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jan 04 - 10:08 AM I'm on hold here-- had some health glitches plus the area I am working in needs some attention to make more room for this project. (Getting the long-awaited new glasses didn't hurt, either.) :~) I have help coming on both fronts and hope to be back on track next week to finish checking the corrected items. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: MMario Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:40 AM refreshing |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:51 AM Yeah, what kinda time do people have to get back to this? I think I'm the bottleneck. I have to fess up-- the ones I've done have lost their texts, accidentally, and I don't think we need text anyhow-- the text and dots to read are already online at the Allen site. My goal was simple-- just to be able to click to HEAR them while LOOKING at them. THEN we layered on how Mudcat MIDIs usually are done-- can we all agree to take my word for it that they don't have to be just like most Mudcat MIDIs? It would keep the project manageable, for me. I got kinda busy. Finally have the health to do more than one thing, took on a lot of new, exciting thngs.... ~Susan |
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