Songs that should have been folk songs

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Alexander
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 08:58 AM

flamenco ted? Allah will not permit the name of Cat Stevens to be mentioned here. However, please feel free to mention Yusuf Islam. Allahu Akhbar!!!

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Alexander
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 08:58 AM

Oops!! I did mention that infamous name!!! One thousand pardons Effendi!!! LOL

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 12:38 PM

One that's been running through my head for ages, just a snippet but I just couldn't pin it down is this one- then I traced today when I suddenly remembered it was Mike Oldfield who wrote it, is "Moon Shadow", which was a great record, and a monster hit, when sung by Maggie Reilly back in 1983. That's a long time ago, and I think it deserves singing in the odd session or club.

So here are the words (from here) - and here is a pretty good midi version of the tune and arrangement.

The last that ever she saw him
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
He passed on worried and warning
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
Lost in a riddle that Saturday night
Far away on the other side
He was caught in the middle of a desperate fight
And she couldn't find how to push through

The trees that whisper in the evening
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
Sing a song of sorrow and grieving
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
All she saw was a silhouette of a gun
Far away on the other side
He was shot six times by a man on the run
And she couldn't find how to push through

I stay, I pray, see you in heaven far away
I stay, I pray, see you in heaven one day

Four AM in the morning
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
I watched your vision forming
Carried away by a moonlight shadow
Stars move slowly in a silvery night
Far away on the other side
Will you come to talk to me this night
But she couldn't find how to push through

I stay, I pray, see you in heaven far away
I stay, I pray, see you in heaven one day

Far away on the other side

Caught in the middle of a hundred and five
The night was heavy and the air was alive
But she couldn't find how to push through

Carried away by a moonlight shadow
Far away on the other side

I wonder if there's a real story behind it?

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: John Hardly
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 02:21 PM

Lonesome Road -- James Taylor
Lean On Me -- Bill Withers

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 02:44 PM

Just casually looking over the lyric of Moonlight Shadow, I wondered in passing if it might not be a veiled reference to the killing of John Lennon, who was shot six times. At any rate, it certainly does sound like a folk song.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Severn
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 04:09 PM

"Somewhere Over The Rainbow" is another one that can turn folk for all the different uses we all put it to (and 'cause we all know it by heart).


"Brother Can You Spare A Dime" was not written as a folksong as such, but has been used by countless folksingers as not only thr ultimate period piece, but as a constant reminder it could become current again at some future time or two and still not sound too dated. A once and future period piece? Hmmmmmm.........


But on a happier note, most of us could get through "Accentuate The Positive" if asked to, and many have in public.


Even stuff from TV (however much we post denials to threads, we somehow all get the Shatner jokes, don't we), but we all know the Robin Hood (see another current thread) or Popeye songs, to name two.
Hell, the four boys walking down the tracks and singing "Have Gun- Will Travel" in "Stand By Me could have an argument for having used it in a folk context, if kids ever consciously thought about that.
Of course it's the fact that they don't that puts it in or near the context anyway.

Severn


Folkness, much like the act of being wonderful, when one achieves it, is sometimes done best when not consciously trying.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 04:25 PM

That's an idea, alanabit. Mind, December 8th 1980, when John was shot, was a Monday, but "Lost in a riddle that Monday night" wouldn't scan properly, and that kind of thing is maybe more important for a song than historical accuracy. (NB I mistyped the song title as "Moon Shadow" which is a different song entirely, by the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens - goo dsong, but I like "Moonlight Shadow" is better.)
........................................

"Somewhere over the rainbow" - Lonnie Donegan used to sing that. So did Alex Campbell, but I don't know if he ever got it on record, it'd be worth hearing.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 05:17 PM

I found this about Moonlight Shadow on this interesting enough looking site:

4.2 Is Moonlight Shadow about the murder of John Lennon?

Maybe Mike was influenced by the murder of John Lennon, which might have found a way into the song, but it was not specifically written about it. Mike himself said he doesn't know exactly, it should be taken without a deep meaning. When Mike was interviewed for the mailing list (see http://tubular.net/articles/95_06.html), this question was asked too. He replied that the song was originally inspired by a very old film called 'Houdini', a Paramount picture filmed in 1953, directed by George Marshall with Tony Curtis in the title role. Additional information is available from:
http://uk.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Houdini%20%281953% 29.

Myself, I remember at the time I took it as being maybe related to the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Wrinkles
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 06:13 PM

I'm kinda surprised that in the context of story-songs no one has mentioned Harry Chapin, although his tunes could hardly be called "folk" his theames certainly were.

Jim Croce's story songs were quite folky/bluesy; "You Don't Mess Around With Jim" has been in my set for more years than I care to remenber ;-)

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 10:45 PM

Hi,

I seem to be reading a lot about Steve Earle recently? So being the discerning musicologist I am, I would put forward "Justice in Ontario" as a fine example of a folk song in the Rock idiom.

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 09:19 AM

Well, I keep mentioning Steve Earle a lot so that might be why.

And he also has a new(ish) album out and is on tour perpetually.

And he's very good.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:56 AM

I think that a lot of Jethro Tull stuff would qualify, especially Heavy Horse, great song.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:58 AM

A lot of the early stuff by Barclay James Harvest.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 12:35 PM

Jethro Tull - of course... "Songs from the wood", "Steel Monkey", "Jack in the green".....

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:15 PM

I remember the House Band at Sidmouth doing a great version of Bruce Springsteen's "No Surrender". Quite a lot of his songs would fit in a song session.

Then there's the Sawdoctors - I'd count them as a kind of folk anyway.

And how about Meatloaf's Bat out of Hell?

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 09:35 PM

Hardly. Meatloaf's material is overblown, pompous, sub-operatic stuff (though he did manage some adequate Gospel covers before he became famous, if memory serves).

I used to play Springsteen's My Home Town occasionally. people usually thought it was a Richard Thompson song they hadn't heard before. Might have been my accent, of course.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 09:56 PM

Some of Hendrixs' stuff could be interpreted in a folkie styling for example "Hey Joe", "The Wind Cries Mary","Little Wing" etc. And I hark back to my bugbear about The Beatles producing numerous folk songs that have all the hallmarks of greatness and will be performed in Folk Clubs around the world for eternity without a shadow of a doubt.You can make up your own lists on that one because we are all entitled to our own preferences and opinions, aren't we? I still think "Norwegian Wood" is one of the best folk songs of the 20th Century though!

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 04:46 PM

I remembered this thread when I came a cross a YouTube clip of a song I brought into the discussion - Maggie Reilly singing Mike Oldfield's Moonlight Shadow.

So I thought I'd refresh the old thread and put in the link. I've always liked this song.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,DriveForever
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 06:28 PM

'The Ballad of Spider John' by Willis Allan Ramsey,

or

'Texas Trilogy' by Stephen Fromholz

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Ragman
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:12 PM

Many years ago, I heard someone quoted as commenting "It's folks that sing songs, I've never heard horses singing songs, so every song is a folk song".

I've always wondered why people should feel they have to categorise songs as 'folk' or whatever. Audiences want to be entertained.

In most of the sessions and clubs I take part in, any type of song will work, so long as the audience like it.

We often have Eagles, Beatles, Richard Thompson,and occasionally we have had some jazz classics. In between, we may have singer-songwriters testing out their new material, and instrumentals with pipes, mandolins, fiddles, and penny whistles. Sometimes we will have visitors from other countries, and they will sing songs from their own culture. When performed well, the audience is content.

When exposed to a range of styles and music, performers and audience of all ages and experience can expect to hear sonething new, and something different.

We also like to encourage newcomers, so anyone can have a shot. Less experienced singers can often only sing a limited range of songs. If they clash with what the audience wants, then it will be harder for them to get another shot. It's as simple as that.

If it's a good song, it should work almost anywhere. Good performers will be able to 'read' the audience and know when a song will or will not work.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM

Circle Game by Joni Mitchell

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:21 PM

"Waltzing with Bears" (in *two* copyrighted versions) has passed into oral circulation and accreted many additional stanzas.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:31 PM

Enjoyed that video.

Whats the words to Moonlight Shadow? anybody know?

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:32 PM

Well I can think of a buch of original tunes by Great Big Sea that would fit the bill, even they do folk & trad also, perhaps they realy are folk to begin with but I nominate...

"Helmet Head", the loves and travels of a minor leauge hockey player.
"Boston & St Johns" just beautiful
"A Boat Like Giddeon Brown" about generations of a family dreaming of a nice fishing boat
"Barque In The Harbour" about a dalliance in a far off land
"French Perfume" smuggling in New Foundland.

I'm sure there are more from this band.

And I nominate Jefferson Airplain's version of Wooden Ships for everything!

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,nick
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:40 PM

sorry realy should have spell checked that last post... too late now
Nick

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:46 PM

A couple of Norman Blake's originals, "Last Train From Poor Valley" and "Ginseng Sullivan", come to mind.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 01:12 AM

How about: "Sixteen Tons" and "Dark as a Dungeon" by Merle Travis, and Billy Edd Wheeler's "Coal Tattoo"

. . . and thanks for refreshing this thread.

michael

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 02:27 AM

Khe Sahn (Don Walker/Cold Chisel)

I left my heart to the sappers round Khe Sanh
And my soul was sold with my cigarettes to the blackmarket man
I've had the Vietnam cold turkey
From the ocean to the Silver City
And it's only other vets could understand

About the long forgotten dockside guarantees
How there were no V-dayheroes in 1973
How we sailed into Sydney Harbour
Saw an old friend but couldn't kiss her
She was lined, and I was home to the lucky land

And she was like so many more from that time on
Their lives were all so empty, till they found their chosen one
And their legs were often open
But their minds were always closed
And their hearts were held in fast suburban chains

And the legal pads were yellow, hours long, paypacket lean
And the telex writers clattered where the gunships once had been
But the car parks made me jumpy
And I never stopped the dreams
Or the growing need for speed and novacaine

So I worked across the country end to end
Tried to find a place to settle down, where my mixed up life could mend
Held a job on an oil-rig
Flying choppers when I could
But the nightlife nearly drove me round the bend

And I've travelled round the world from year to year
And each one found me aimless, one more year the more for wear
And I've been back to South East Asia
But the answer sure ain't there
But I'm drifting north, to check things out again

You know the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone
Only seven flying hours, and I'll be landing in Hong Kong
There ain't nothing like the kisses
From a jaded Chinese princess
I'm gonna hit some Hong Kong mattress all night long

Well the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone
Yeah the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone
And it's really got me worried
I'm goin' nowhere and I'm in a hurry
And the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:41 AM

There are plenty of songs not within the folk canon that work brilliantly well when 'folkified', & not just those from those songwriters or performers who were folk influenced (Mark Knopfler being a prime example of one who WAS).

I suppose it all hinges on the thorny old issue of 'what is/isnt Folk anyway', & the best definition I can come up with, & I've said it before on here is that folk can be 'anything that goes down well with a folkie audience...except for those things that do, but clearly arent!'

There is also the things that plainly are, but I have noticed a couple of posts in this thread that put forward stuff that is to my mind, beyond question, notably stuff thats not Trad. but without doubt (to my mind anyway) fits the folk idiom, & which, I would assume, most people would share my opinion that it does.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 05:20 AM

William Brown.not the [richmal crompton characterWilliam Brown[the description of the capitalist system].

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Scrump
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 06:29 AM

This is an interesting thread started by George, that I've only just seen thanks to it being refreshed by McGrath of Harlow.

It seems to me there is a bit of muddying of the water between contemporary singer-songwriters who are already regarded as being in the folk category, and others who definitely are not.

For example, many of Joni Mitchell's songs have been sung in folk clubs since the 1960s, and although there are always hardcore traddies who would say her songs are not folk music, I think I'm right in saying that most of us would regard a lot of her early output in particular as being in the folk domain. Likewise, Bob Dylan, Harvey Andrews and Suzanne Vega have been associated with the folk scene in their time (whether or not you agree that they should have been is another matter entirely, that I don't want to get into in this thread).

Whereas artists like Rod Stewart, Slade, Billy Joel, Cindi Lauper and Dire Straits would not normally be regarded as having anything to do with folk. Yet, as people have said in this thread, some individual songs by these artists can be imagined sung in a folk setting.

I'm not sure where you draw the line between 'people who are sort of folky already' and 'people who have nowt to do with folk music', but I guess as always this would be subjective.

By coincidence, last Saturday I had the radio on in the car and the DJ played Slade's "Far Far Away" and I remarked to Mrs Scrump that I could imagine singing a 'folky' version of it, something I hadn't thought of before, even though I'd heard the song before many times over the years.

I'm not sure what it is about a 'non-folk' song that gives it 'folk possibilities'. I think perhaps sometimes it's the lyrics, which may be dealing with something different than the usual 'lurve' subject matter - perhaps they tell an interesting story, or deal with topical issues; or maybe the tune has a 'folky' feel to it somehow. I think the Slade one I quoted above is probably in the latter category, but I'm not really sure why.

I have seen people do 'non-folk' songs in folk clubs (e.g. I saw someone do The Beatles' Eleanor Rigby, which raised a few eyebrows when the singer announced it, but it has a (sort of) story to it and it seemed to go down well with the audience in spite of the possible misgivings (he did give it a 'folky' arrangement on acoustic guitar which helped its 'folky' credentials).

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 06:49 AM

Much of Ian Dury's repertoire. "Billericay Dickie" in particular

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 10:45 AM

"Rain, Steam and Speed" by The Men They Couldn't Hang may be borderline as they're folk-rock anyway, but it is about building Brunel's stuff so fits in with the OP's interest in working songs. And it looks forward at the end to the channel tunnel.

But also a few less immediately obvious types --

Wishbone Ash, "Leaf and Stream", unusually acoustic for them:

"Alone I've walked this path for many years,
Listened to the wind that calls my name.
The weeping trees of yesterday look so sad,
Await your breath of spring again."

Crowded House, "Four Seasons in One Day":

"It doesn't pay to make predictions
Sleeping on an unmade bed
Finding out wherever there is comfort
There is pain only one step away
Like four seasons in one day"

Procol Harum's "A Salty Dog":

"Upon the seventh seasick day we made our port of call
A sand so white, and sea so blue, no mortal place at all"

Crash Test Dummies and "God Shuffled His Feet":

"And what with God there, they asked him questions
Like: do you have to eat, or get your hair cut in heaven?
And if your eye got poked out in this life
Would it be waiting up in heaven with your wife?
God shuffled his feet, and glanced around at them
The people cleared their throats, and stared right back at Him."

I've always had a soft spot for Pink Floyd's (Syd Barrett's) whimsical "Bike":

"I've got a bike.
You can ride it if you like.
It's got a basket, a bell that rings
And things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could
But I borrowed it."

And back to whaling, Mountain's "Nantucket Sleighride":

"Starbuck's sharpening his harpoon
The black man's playing his tune
An old salt's sleeping his watch away
He'll be drunk again before noon"

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Gwenzilla
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 11:45 AM

Several of Dougie Maclean's songs come to mind, including the ubiquitous "Caledonia," but I'd also give a nod to "Singing Land."

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:03 PM

Without arguing about what is and isn't folk, these at least are not traditional:

PeterA beat me to it but I was going to say Steve Earle. Almost anything by Steve Earle.

Second "Sixteen Tons", "Dark as a Dungeon", and "Coal Tattoo". Add Wheeler's "Red-Winged Bird", as well.

Norman Blake's "Billy Gray"
Lucinda Williams' "Concrete and Barbed Wire"
Gillian Welch "Everything is Free" and "One Morning", among many others
A lot of stuff by Slaid Cleaves
OCMS "Wagon Wheel"

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM

I have just watched "Moonlight Shadow" in 3 versions, and I have to say that, although it is an interesting and 'intense' song with several virtues, it just doesn't 'feel' like what I associate with 'folk'.
The rhythm, tune pattern, and evocation of images are a modern 'pop-rock', singer-songwriter combination. I am not good enough at dissecting these things to spell out every nuance, but the song just 'drives' in a way I don't associate with folk. As performed, it doesn't feel like a song I could sing, or that someone would just sit in their living room and sing with friends.
   Could it be done more simply, without all the added images and drums? Perhaps...but it just feels like a song to be performed, not shared.

As you see, (and many remember about me), I take a fairly narrow view of what ought to be called folk. I like many other songs, I just prefer my favorite category to not be diluted by everything that gets popular or is considered 'good'.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:52 PM

You know, Bill, and I hate to admit this, but you are finally winning me over. Especially that last post. I do many songs that are not folk songs, but are played in the folk style. I know of many songs that folkies love me to play (The Dutchman, The Rare Old Times, Hiring Fair, etc and on and on) that are not folk songs. I have come to agree that we need to keep what is folk a bit pure, but not react so angrily at folks that play folk styled music.

Mick

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 01:38 PM

"Dignity" Deakon Blue

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 02:58 PM

Road Rage by Catatonia has an earthy folky sound!   I bet Cerys Mathews started off singing folk.

Anything by the Kaiser Chiefs, their songs are so infectious.(no sarky comments please)
Their concerts remind me of the atmosphere at the big folk clubs way back then

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:03 PM

Why should any of these songs have been folk songs?
"Folk" isn't a value judgment, any more than "Pop" is.

There are good songs and bad songs in any genre, and I fail to see what is gained by continuing this water-muddying.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

Ok, Mick, thatnk you..*smile*...that's all I have tried to say for years. Sometimes I said it too much like a 'purist snob', but I just wanted to have a way to identify stuff with a basic 'feel' to them.

You (and I) sing many things which are clearly not strict or traditional folk, (and the "guilty pleasures" workshop at the Getaway clearly acknowledged the differences), and 'good' songs SHOULD be done, but "Songs that should have been folk songs" ought to be a pretty tight category...that is, they need to come close to fooling us about their origins.

   Interestingly, I just listened to a recording of "Shawnee Town" done by Johnny Collins & Jim Mageean (about moving a river boat with oars & poles) which was done 'right'...with the rhythm, meter and 'feel' of the job it was written about. Compared to some of the high-speed 'bouncy' versions I have heard the last few years, it really felt good. There are many characteristics which swing a song into or out of, the 'folk' mode, and sometimes the lines are blurry, but that shouldn't keep us from looking for the lines when we want to make certain kinds of lists.


(gee....there I go again...*grin*)

Subject: RE: Songs that could yet be folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:42 PM

Basically what determines it, for me, is when a song gets passed on by people who may have no idea who wrote it and recorded it, they just heard someone singing it and liked it enough to sing it themselves.

Once that happens a few time, it's into the oral tradition, which is what counts.

But I quite agree with dick greenhaus that "folk" shouldn't be used as a value judgement - plenty of great songs that aren't folk songs yet, and plenty of great songs that will never become folk songs; and a fair number of songs that are undeniably folk sings that aren't that good.

And I also agree that "should have been" is the wrong word - "could yet be" might be better, which is why I modified the heading in this post.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 05:24 PM

That's a very useful 'part' of a good test, Kevin, but as phrased, it would allow things like "Itsy-Bitsy, Teenie-Weenie, Yellow Polka-Dot Bikini", or "Ragg Mopp" to be called 'folk' if they are learned from the oral tradition, and I have a few "itsy-bitsy,teeny weenie" philosophical issues with that...*grin*

I just think that subject matter, melody style, age...and a few more ought to be considered IF it becomes an issue...like whether to included it in the Digital Tradition database. And, as a matter of fact, I'm sure Dick & Susan do subjectively use criteria like that when adding to the database, even if they don't consult some detailed list.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Stower
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 06:39 PM

A song with a story? Songs that lots of people have remembered and sung? Songs where people don't know / care who wrote it?

Two Little Boys
Ernie (The Fastest Milkman in the West)
Tie A Yellow Ribbon
Lola

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:05 PM

Another of the great singer-songwriters, writing about things that will still ring true centuries from now.

Leonard Cohen.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:32 PM

"Ragg Mopp"? Never heard of it.

"Itsy-Bitsy, Teenie-Weenie, Yellow Polka-Dot Bikini" I doubt if many people outside the generation that grew up with it will be likely to ever sing it. I should probably have included that in my rule of thumb. Out of the thousands of Victorian parlour songs and music hall songs, or only a relative handful have made it through in that way. And the same goes for other types of soings that were populat in their day.

If it does pass that test, I'd class it as a folk song - well, I did say that there are some folk songs that aren't much good.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: oldhippie
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 09:34 PM

"The Saints Who Have Never Been Caught" - Larry Jon Wilson

THE SAINTS WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN CAUGHT

by Aaron Allen and Lee Fry
Beacon Light Music (BMI)
recorded by Larry Jon Wilson on
"Sojourner"


If a man ever yields to temptation
And breaks some tradition or law
They look for no good in his makeup
And Lord, how they look for his flaws

Chorus:

I'm a sinner, Lord how I know it
I'm weak, and I've blundered, I've failed
And I've tossed around on life's ocean
Like a ship so lost in a gale

They don't ask how he was tempted,
Or allow for the battles he's fought
His name becomes food for the jackals
All the saints who have never been caught

Chorus

Temptation is a whispering mistress
Like others I've heard her sweet call
I've yielded to the fire of the moment
I've known the shame in the fall

Chorus

I'm willing to trust in the Lord's mercy
Do the best my conscience has taught
But deliver me, Lord, from the judgment
Of all the saints who have never been caught

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 03:57 AM

One of those coincidences that makes you wonder if they really are coincidences: after reading this thread for the first time yesterday, last night I saw Phil Beer sing Billy Joel's "Downeaster Alexa" (mentioned by George Papavgeris above). He did it in great style too - this was Phil's solo spot in the current Show of Hands tour. It took me by surprise because I've seen SOH twice before on this tour, and he did different songs on the previous two occasions - this one was by far the best of the three IMO.

Or maybe it isn't a coincidence after all, and Phil's a Mudcatter too? ;-) Unfortunately I didn't see Phil afterwards this time, or I would have asked him.

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: ossonflags
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 06:33 AM

"if I was a blackbird" by Ronnie Ronalde

Subject: RE: Songs that should have been folk songs
From: GUEST,JT
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM

" The Perfect Mark of Cain" Jeff Finlin.