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BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? |
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Subject: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: pavane Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:15 AM Does anyone know when 'the blues' first came to have its present meaning, in terms of emotion, which was (subsequently?) applied to the music? |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: The Walrus at work Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:23 AM Pavane, I seem to recall that the term "to have the blue devils", meaning melencholia dates back to at least the Regency period (I think it's in Grosse's Dictionary, but I can't find my copy, so I'm afraid I can't confirm that. regards Walrus |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: pavane Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:27 AM Anyone with a subscription to the online OED? Maybe that would tell us. Just curious because I found a reference to the blues (and the browns) in a song c1840 |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Fiolar Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:46 AM According to The Cassell Dictionary of Slang and I quote "The OED's first citation is from a letter by the actor David Garrick (11th July 1741): 'I am far from being quite well, tho not troubled with ye Blews as I have been.'" Unquote. So tomorrow July 11th is an anniversary of sorts. Obviously the word must have been in use before that in order for Garrick and the person he was writing to, to be familiar with it. As Garrick was an actor I wonder if it had a theatre connection? |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Pene Azul Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:49 AM According to this FAQ:
The word 'blue' has been associated with the idea of melancholia or depression since the Elizabethan era. The American writer, Washington Irving is credited with coining the term 'the blues,' as it is now defined, in 1807. (Tanner 40) The earlier (almost entirely Negro) history of the blues musical tradition is traced through oral tradition as far back as the 1860s. (Kennedy 79) Jeff |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Brían Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:19 AM I think there might be a connection with the 4 Cardinal Humors: Blood(Red), Phlegm(Green, Yellow),Melancholy(Black bile). People's body fluids were thought to govern their emotions. Brían. |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Kim C Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:50 AM I have read a reference in a Civil War diary - the girl's brother wrote to her and said, what have you given Mr. Magner the blues about? (Mr. Magner was her sweetheart, but as it turned out, she didn't marry him. Oh well.) |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:27 PM Pene Azul is correct according to the Oxford English Dictionary. It is supposed to have been derived from "blue devils." |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Burke Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:00 PM Did someone say OED? "the blues" is older than Irving.
blue a 3. fig. a. Affected with fear, discomfort, anxiety, etc.; dismayed, perturbed, discomfited; depressed, miserable, low-spirited; esp. in phr. to look blue. blue funk (slang): extreme nervousness, tremulous dread; also blue-funk school, a jocular perversion of 'blue-water school'; blue fear, a variant of blue funk.
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Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Mrrzy Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:10 PM Maybe it comes then from observing the cyanosity of corpses or something? Seems a lot older than the "usually credited" date, who's gonna tell'm? As an interesting aside, "les bleus" (the blues) in French would refer to a bunch of newbies, raw recruits - who'd be called green in English... |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Jul 01 - 12:26 AM Interesting coincidence. Just today I read this: "Lecturing is gymnastics, chest-expander, medicine, mind healer, blues destroyer, all in one." -- Mark Twain, in a letter to Sammy Moffett, 15 Aug 1895, quoted by Andrew Hoffman, in "Inventing Mark Twain: The Lives of Samuel Langhorne Clemens," 1997. |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: pavane Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:21 AM Thanks for the OED entry, that must be the definitive word (Unless anyone knows better...) |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: GUEST,petr Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:38 PM along with green recruit, theres green with envy red with rage, yellow with cowardice, theres also black humour my favorite Nabokov quote, " it wasnt blackmail it was more like mauvemail" |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: GUEST,petr Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:39 PM I should say that in Czech if someone looks green, they look quite sick (about to throw up) |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: MMario Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:52 PM they are described that way in English too, petr; but also figurativly "green" for jealousy or envy. |
Subject: RE: BS: How old is 'the blues' meaning sadness? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jul 01 - 05:36 PM My edition of the OED is old (1920s), and lacked the reference to Garrick. Thanks, Burke. I would like to get the online version, but I can't justify it on retirement income. |