BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...

Subject: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:32 PM

Now and then one finds a Guest upset about an apparent feud on Mudcat between someone and someone else...but it isn't really a feud at all...it's a joke. Now and then longtime Mudcat members get upset about the same thing. This happens when people aren't in on the joke, I guess, or they don't know the combatants well enough to catch on.

The thing is, when you know people really well you sometimes pretend to fight with them about something (preferably something fairly ridiculous) just for fun. It's called "joshing".

The spectacle of other people getting bent out of shape by this because they take it all too seriously can sometimes come as a bit of a surprise.

Anyway, just to reassure those people, I have had big fake feuds in the past on Mudcat with:

flattop (a longtime good friend of mine in real life)

Raptor (another longtime friend whom I delight in sniping at on occasion...he's a real shit disturber sometimes, so why shouldn't I do the same to him now and then? For instance, he persecuted my stuffed frog, Kermit, so badly that I had to quit taking Kermit to my musical performances altogether. To put it simply, Raptor can be an A$$hole at times, and he enjoys it thoroughly! :-))

Clinton Hammond (a guy who disagrees with me about a lot of things, but sometimes surprises me by agreeing with me on something!)

Amos - A prince of a man. When I appear to insult Amos you should definitely KNOW it's a joke!

Spaw - I took up fake feuding with Spaw merely because he is a veritable icon on this forum (kind of like William Shatner), and it's far too tempting to snipe at an icon for me to be able to resist. It is all tongue in cheek. Spaw is a great guy.

Martin Gibson - Hell, everybody feuds with Martin! Still, I actually like him.

Doug R - Well, I don't really feud with Doug, we just disagree radically on politics. I like Doug R.

teribus & Wolfgang - Sort of similar to Doug R. I just naturally tend to disagree with them on a lot of subjects. This may appear like a feud, but it isn't, as far as I'm concerned.

So....the next time you see this sort of thing happening, consider that it may be just a joke...or the healthy give and take of alternate viewpoints.

Anyone else want to admit to their fake feuds on Mudcat so as to put people's worried minds to rest a bit?

Oh...and you real feuders can go and start your own flippin' thread!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:38 PM

Troll and his brother Skeptic had a hilarious "pretend" feud a few years ago. They had to stop because people who weren't in on it were getting upset. It's too bad, because they were very funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:42 PM

Yeah, I vaguely remember that, and it was truly hilarious all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM

Little Hawk, Chongo the Chimp, Amos, DougR, Bobert and everyone else. Except the ubiquitous GUEST. Not all GUESTs, just the one. You know who I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:11 PM

Is it only feuding if you attack the person and not the ideas? I have been sticking with attacking only the ideas. (Even if someone is a jackass, their ideas may still be pretty good, and even if they are the very model of a human being, if they spout crap, then that is all there is.) Perhaps I should branch out. Feuding, real or fake sounds like fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:02 PM

Well, no, I think you can attack the ideas too, but it helps to attack them in a really intemperate, unreasonable fashion, using convoluted and pompous language or else resorting to obviously crude forms of bluster and obfuscation. (love those big words...)

However, you are correct that petty criticism and personal abuse is the heart and soul of a really good fake feud, saul. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:07 PM

Some gems from Troll and Skeptic:

Skeptic-

ps: troll: I agree and endorse the first paragraph in your latest post. But then, I know where you got it from. Lobachevsky would be so proud.

Troll-

I only steal from the best. I'm happy that you FINALLY recognized one of my many sources of information.
Of course, even a blind pig will find an acorn if he roots long enough.

Skeptic-

troll, The Times? In response to something in the Forth Worth Star Telegraph? You are being less than lucid. Glad you're getting back to normal.

Skeptic-

The "blind pig" reference was to me. Not one of his better efforts (using 'effort' very liberally). I think it some sort of sad compulsion to try to be witty. Much like his delusions of competency. (Note to troll - an opening for a comeback - don't miss it).

Troll-

I save them for those who can appreciate and -more importantly- understand them.

Far from being a "sad compulsion to try to be witty", I was merely trying to make YOU feel more a part of things. Sort of a "make jokes with him so he'll feel more like one of the guys". I realize that it was probably a wasted effort but I DID promise I'd try. I should have remembered," Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Oh. By the way. All things considered, you are the LAST person I would expect to hear talking about competency.

Skeptic-

Is there someone who appreciates your efforts? I mean aside from those abnormal psych grad students using you as a case study?

Troll-

Skeptic.
Ebbie likes my humor. She said so.
So THERE!

Skeptic-

Ebbie, In his own mind, troll is almost always serious. Couple that curious delusion with his severely dysfunctional personality and a view of reality that can best be characterized as, literally, unique and you capture a hint of the difficult in deciphering his cryptic attempts at communication. Let along dealing with him face to face.
I've always found that: 1. Ignoring him does no good. He can't take the hint. 2. Some people crave abuse and rejection. He requires it. 3. Don't take him at all seriously. Although he takes himself that way, those who know him have adopted a kind of benign contempt.

I hope his comments weren't meant as a compliment. Talk about ruining your whole day.....!!!!


...And on another thread (I think this is one of my favorites)...

Troll-

Amos, if Skeptic (John) HAD taken it personally, you would have known it in no uncertain terms. So far he has been extremely kind in his postings

Actually, he is a vicious little rat with a tongue like a razor-blade dipped in sulphuric acid.

And those are his GOOD points.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:07 PM

well I think you're all talking tosh - you wouldnt get me wasting my breath - or typing on a pretend fued I reckon they are all real!!!!!

bring back birching, stocks, hanging for anyone who has an alternate point of view

the duelling threads last year and this were a bit like the ones you've talked about - check out the names there - we're all mates too

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:15 PM

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Har! Har! Gasp!@ Oh, my...

Carol, that stuff is absolutely as good as it gets in fake feuding. My hat is off to Troll and Skeptic.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:55 PM

I mentioned on another thread that I used to be an avid fencer. The sport, of course, was derived from serious matters centuries ago, when sometimes one's life could depend upon one's skill in handling a rapier (16th and 17th centuries) or an elegant but deadly small-sword (18th century). Gentlemen would often spent half a day at the salle d'armes, taking a lesson from the maitre d'armes in offense and defence with the sword, then spending a couple of hours bouting with other gentlemen, partly in an effort to perfect their technique, but often just for the sport of it. It was this sort of thing from which modern art and sport of fencing was derived.

Although the term was never used in relation to fencing until a few decades ago, it is a martial art, and it demands the same sort of discipline, mental focus, and self control as the Asian martial arts.

Many hours I used to spend dressed in my fencing whites, peering intently through the wire mesh of a fencing mask, foil, épée, or saber in my gloved hand, going at it hammer and tongs with other fencers, invariably good friends because we shared the same passion for the sport. The click and slither of slender blades against each other, the stamping of feet, and the shouts of "Et la!" and "Touché!" are sheer music!

To the onlooker unacquainted with the art, it undoubtedly looked as if we were trying to kill each other. In fact, friend of my youth Alan Randall and I were fencing one afternoon in a nearby park (in our imaginations, recreating the days when gentlemen might settle an "affair of honor" in the Bois de Boulogne just outside of Paris) when a police car cruising through screeched to a halt and two policemen leaped out and dashed over to us, convinced that we were bent on doing murder to each other—fight with swords, ye gods! We let them examine our weapons (slender, flexible steel blades with points like nail-heads which we padded with a bit of adhesive tape) and our wire mesh masks and padded jackets, and assured them that we were good friends engaging in a perfectly safe sport. They stayed for awhile and watched us, rather fascinated as we thrusted, parried, lunged, et al, then eventually left us to our recreation.

An evening of swordplay at the YMCA or the Washington Athletic Club in Seattle or Hans Halberstadt's salle d'armes in San Francisco was almost invariably followed by adjourning to the nearest alehouse to replace the moisture we had sweated out and share convivial good-fellowship with the guys and gals we had spent the past couple of hours trying (in our imaginations) to shish-kabob on modern (blunted) replicas of the elegant, deadly weapons that the aristocracy of two or three centuries ago wore as an essential part of their wardrobe. A spirited, healthy, and enjoyable way to experience a bit of history.

Quite a bit of verbal fencing goes on here on Mudcat, and sometimes it gets vigorous to the point where an onlooker might misunderstand what is really going on. As long as one does it in the spirit of sport—and in the spirit (even if, because of distances, it is not actually possible) of following the discourse by lifting a tall and foamy with one's former adversaries, then one gets one's exercise, hones one's skills, and all is well.

My only real quarrel is with the kind of person who (to change the analogy from fencing) comes into a conference where dignified people are discussing serious issues, and whose only contribution to the discussion is to drop his pants and take a dump in the middle of the conference table.

You know the type.

Don Firth

". . . and as I end the refrain, thrust home!"
                               —Cyrano de Bergerac

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:31 PM

What can be annoying, in the Internet as in real life, is when someone starts blustering and bullying in dead earnest - and then backs off under pressure and moves into the mode "I was only joking, some people haven't got any no sense of humour".

But when well-intentioned peacemaker is trying to calm down a battle-royal which is in fact a friendly match - that can be quite entertaining to observe.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:38 PM

Darn right. :-) I remember one time when Spaw was engaged in some ridiculous thread that supposedly involved people maltreating parrots while playing music or something like that. It was started by some band looking for information, and Spaw siezed upon something in their band name and started raising hell about them encouraging cruelty to animals. He was doing it just for laughs, but they took him seriously. It got crazier and crazier. I think they finally realized he was joking, but he had to say some totally off-the-wall stuff before they finally caught on.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM

Hi again Don. I fear your last "Lunge" may be "Parried" by you know who but aint it all sort of fun anyway??. I suppose if we all took everything everyone said to us on a real personal level on here, we would become paranoid(paranoid schitzophrenics..those who are pretending not to be their real selves eh?)
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:55 PM

Idle curiosity drift - is "blessed" there intended as an adjective, with two syllables ("I can't find my blessed socks") or a verb with one syllable ("he blessed the bride")?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 07:04 PM

Don, the Presbyterian church here sponsors fencing. I'd like to get back to it -- foil, I think, since I gave away my epees and my saber is, well, a saber and sharp edges and blood give a whole new dimension to the sport.

It's excellent physical and mental exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:22 PM

"My only real quarrel is with the kind of person who (to change the analogy from fencing) comes into a conference where dignified people are discussing serious issues, and whose only contribution to the discussion is to drop his pants and take a dump in the middle of the conference table"

But that's the deal for me. The more dignified, the bigger the dump is going to be. Can't do it at the meeting room at work, but sure can here. I'm always watching for the good opportunities, Don.

And fencing is really a stupid sport! Why don't you play with your friends for real? Do you guys wear the same masks as bee keepers?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 10:40 PM

............This happens when people aren't in on the joke, I guess, or they don't know the combatants well enough to catch on..........

..................But when well-intentioned peacemaker is trying to calm down a battle-royal which is in fact a friendly match - that can be quite entertaining to observe..........

..................They had to stop because people who weren't in on it were getting upset..........

..................However, you are correct that petty criticism and personal abuse is the heart and soul of a really good fake feud,...........

I find the idea of people continuing in-jokes on a public forum, at best, rude. When the insiders start to find amusement in the actions of the "well-intentioned peacemaker" then it is akin to children whispering and giggling with the intention of upsetting others.

As members often use Mudcat handles rather than family names, how could I be expected to know that Troll and Skeptic were, in fact, brothers and their "feud" was only good old family joshing. One of the complaints against Mudcat is that it is run by an inner clique. I don't believe that to be true but leaving a large percentage of the contributors out of the loop in this way only re-enforces that feeling.

We have enough real feuds (or, at least, I think we do) to make Mudcat seem a very unpleasant place at times. Fake feuds, while being fun for the few, encourage the climate where intolerance seems the norm and is likely to drive sensible people to look elsewhere.


Doug C

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:10 PM

Well, they did stop (Troll and Skeptic). They even apologized for it in a thread started just for that reason. Feel any better?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM

Actually, Doug, all it usually takes is just not to react immediately, but to read between the lines a bit. When people are writing stuff tongue in cheek it usually becomes evident what they are up to fairly quickly, I think.

And we don't do it to mystify outsiders, we do it because it's funny for those directly involved. The same thing happens in ordinary conversations in real life. Have you not ever kidded around with a buddy about something? And did the people at the next table always know exactly what was going on? Does it really matter? Any club or meeting place forms groups of people who know each other well enough that they have something going that someone else may not fully comprehend. It's not just Mudcat where that happens.

Brucie's constant references to my supposed penchant for goats and blow-up dolls, for instance...how could a newcomer possibly know where that's coming from? Well, it's a joke. I am not going to give up making jokes because there may be someone in the room who doesn't get it.

In the immortal words of Mick Jagger, "F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke."

And I learned it all from Spaw, the beloved elder statesman of this forum, so if you're gonna get upset with someone, get upset with him.

Yes, he is a horrible example. Just horrible. He should probably be clapped in the stocks or keelhauled or something. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 01:15 AM

Aw shucks, LH, I'm blushing! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 01:49 AM

It would seriously hurt to get your stocks clapped. That happened to me once in a sparring match. Spaw, don't let him clap your stocks.

Someone on another thread made a very good observation: We never saw Ringo Starr and Arafat together in the same room. So, could they be the same person? That got me to wondering about Little Hawk and William Shatner. Naw, couldn't be, right?

When I castigate (I hope that means what I think it does) Little Hawk about the goat or the dolls, it is with the intent of having some fun. People--even all growed up people--occasionally get the giggles and absolutely EVERYthing seems funny. The whole world won't like it. Hey, that's life. If I though for a moment that LH took any of it seriously, I would apologize first in public and then in private. He is a 'catter, thinker and person for whom I have the utmost respect. (I don't trust him worth shit on the goat, but he understands that.)

Some fights do break out on the Mudcat. But fights don't break out over Willard Fillmore or beer (except amongst those who drink Guinness and those who don't). Fights break out over topics about which people feel very deeply, rightly or wrongly. That too is life.

After my brother's deat a while back, I got to thinking that with his body being sent to Montreal for autopsy, then being sent elsewhere for further testing (toxicology) and finally the trip to the crematorium and then the trip to the burial sit--he travelled more the first month after his death than he's travelled in the past twenty years. That appealed to my sense of humour and I ended up laughing for about ten minutes. It struck me as being extremely funny. I wouldn't expect many people to see the humour in it, but I know some from the 'cat who would. And I wouldn't be the least offended if they too laughed out loud about it. Hell, funny is funny, even if everyone doesn't 'see' it.

An understanding of context helps, but that isn't the only barometer for humour. Months ago I seriously offended someone who likes rugby. I implied that it wasn't a real game like North American football. (I know rugby is a tough game.) You'd a though I shit in the cornflakes. I tried to make amends--they weren't accepted. So, what's a guy to do? Everything can't be serious all the time, any more than everything can be a joke all the time. Is everyone's understanding of context always right on? Naw. Is everyone's humour or timing always right on? Naw. Will it matter in five years? Naw.

It's life, and life only.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:04 AM

Besides, I started by asking LH if I could borrow the goat because life was lonely in Alberta. In the only real lie LH has ever told on the Mudcat, he said he sent her--and I know he didn't. He barbequed the poor little thing and here I sit, waiting for Esmerelda who will never find true love. Death, where is thy STING!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:08 AM

So





Cookies all around?





;-D




..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: mooman
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:40 AM

But that's the deal for me. The more dignified, the bigger the dump is going to be. Can't do it at the meeting room at work, but sure can here. I'm always watching for the good opportunities, Don.

Pretty good statement MG that pretty well sums you up. Some of us do have the nerve to stick our neck out at the meeting room at work, where it can make a difference, week in week out in the interest of doing the right thing. And then we act like civilized human beings here. Your language and attitude is pretty much the worst I've seen in the five years or so I've been visiting this forum. I suppose you take great pride in that.

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:23 AM

... and the problem that you don't seem to understand MG, is that while people who meet you in real life first may think you are a great guy, those of us who have only experienced you first in this forum in all your glory of 'dumping' in this place, are only more likely to try to avoid you in real life, rather than willingly to seek out your company. And sadly, also probably discount your personal opinions on anything regarding music, even those areas in which you well be expert and well experienced.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:44 AM

Without naming names, I can remember a thread (now deleted) where two members where throwing the most vicious invective at each other. I happen to know that the antagonists where both alta egos of the same person. I of course did a similiar thing with my Avril Betts persona.

Many of the Mudcat feuds are on this sort of level - there are some exceptions though - Kampervan & I versus McFat & Baggyrash and of course The World versus Breezy - these are deadly serious !

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 09:59 AM

Mooman

So what! Maybe that's why you've bounced around from job to job or can't even hold one. If you offend so easily, you are probably wearing your wife's panties anyway. Go suck cow teat, Moo.

And "fool" stroupe, another BFD. I could care less if you don't seek me out. You can discount anything you want about me about what I post in the music threads. I COULD CARE LESS! As a music historian and pro for 40 years, it's your loss. I shake hands with my friends in real life. Welcome to cyberspace, pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM

I guess that's another thing that makes a certain amount of inside humor inevitable. Many of us who post here in the Mudcat have met or spent time with many other Mudcatters in "real life" (3D world). Some inside jokes are bound to arise out of these "real life" encounters.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:38 AM

And some prefer to remain private and keep it all in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:55 AM

Good point. I've noticed that in the past, people who have started out in the Mudcat with "personas" that centered around being abusive toward others did, eventually, become more accountable for their behavior once they started meeting other Mudcatters in "real life".

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, and I'm really sick of being accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:00 AM

That's what I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:26 AM

Should have been obvious.

What does it all really prove anyway, if one already has more self-esteem than they will ever need? Or if this whole place to them is just a whimsy that varies to certain degrees at any given time?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:52 AM

Just a matter of preferences, I guess. I find the friendships I've made with people here in the Mudcat very rewarding. More rewarding, in some ways, than many of the contacts I have with people I meet through other contexts. I guess that's because people from all over the world who have certain sensibilities in commone with me (sense of humor, musical tastes, etc.) are all concentrated here in this one place.

It would be extremely difficult for me to find as many kindred spirits in the "real world" as I find here in the Mudcat every day. And the friendships I make here become a means for me to get out and see much more of the world than I would otherwise be able to do, through the eyes of people who are local to that area. Best way to travel, in my opinion.

On the other hand, one of the best friends I've ever had in the Mudcat, I never even knew his name or what he looked like until after he died. I miss him a lot.

One thing I think some people don't understand about places like the Mudcat, is that mixed in amongst the every day regular people like you, who have very active and full 3D world lives, there are quite a few people who, because of illness or other physical limitations, aren't able to have a full and satisfying 3D life. The Mudcat helps them keep their sanity while they go through very difficult times of physical and social isolation.

I know everyone's behavior here is their own choice, but personally, I think the people who are going through difficult times deserve all the kindness we can give them. And it's not always possible to know which Mudcatters are going through such experiences. So for me, I choose to at least attempt kindness toward everyone. I know from personal experience what an important life-line a place like the Mudcat can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: mooman
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM

Mooman

So what! Maybe that's why you've bounced around from job to job or can't even hold one. If you offend so easily, you are probably wearing your wife's panties anyway. Go suck cow teat, Moo.

Exactly. No need for me to say anything. You say it all yourself. Actually, you don't know the first thing about me Martin unlike the 60 or 70 'Catters I've actually met in person. And although I sometimes visit Chicago on business...you never will meet me. And, if I accidentally should bump into you, I'd still buy you a drink despite having "shit for brains and wearing my wife's panties". And no...I'm not easily offended at all...on the contrary. You'll have to try a great deal harder than that. Cow teat...mmmmm.

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:04 PM

Here's a very small example of what I'm talking about...

For my mother

Subject: For my mother
From: GUEST,CarolC (at her parent's house in Wheaton) - PM
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 12:19 AM

My mom just died. She had a heart attack. She had a good Thanksgiving.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:48 PM

Spaw had a fake feud going with me over the David Bowie song "Space Oddity". Every chance he got he would attack that song and its main protagonist, Major Tom, in a totally outrageous and unfair manner. It' actually a great song. Why he chose to do this I don't know, except I guess he got a few laughs out of it. My reaction was to mention the song frequently, just to see if he'd go after it again, and he always did.

Then I discovered that Spaw had a very low opinion of the song "McArthur Park" (heaven knows why...), so I started praising "McArthur Park" to the skies as a brilliant piece of musical metaphor whenever I could. That was fun. I will probably always defend "McArthur Park" on Mudcat, and Spaw is responsible.

And so it goes...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:19 PM

Okay, Little Hawk, here it comes, as promised. I decided to post it on this thread rather than "the end of the world is nigh" because that thread is getting so long it takes a long time to load, and I feel that this is too important for people to miss. Also, it does seem fairly appropriate here. However, by way of introduction, some folks might wish to pick up the background of the following by reading a couple of posts on the aforementioned thread (here), beginning with Little Hawk's of 22 Jul 04 - 03:30 PM, and on through subsequent posts.

This bit of Natural (or Unnatural) History was learned from a strange and awesome source. It occurred during a moment of great clarity that came to me a few nights ago, when, feeling relaxed, magnanimous, and open to all that the universe had to offer (and without the "aid" of mind-altering substances, I might add, other that a cup of tea [Earl Gray, hot]), I was surprised to find myself channeling an old, wise soul who informed me that he had reincarnated many times—and in various forms. He had been many people and many things during his long sojourn, and at times he had occupied non-human forms. On one of these occasions when he manifested as a non-human, he had adopted the name Cyril. Since things in this multiplicity of realms tend to form interlocking vortices, many of which account for strange coincidences in this world, it is not unusual that, in the form of the non-human, Cyril, he had been in Chicago some four and a half or five decades ago and he chanced to encounter none other than our dear friend Martin Gibson!

We talked of many things, and during this conversation, Cyril told me this bizarre story:—

To say that Martin Gibson had a dysfunctional childhood would be something of an understatement.

A few moments after he was born, she who bore him took one look at him, and her heartrending and bloodcurdling shriek of horror echoed and re-echoed through the concrete canyons of the great city. She scrambled frantically out of the Dumpster, ran down the alley, and vanished into the night.

Being forsaken thus could have meant the end for Marty. But he was in luck. Many animals recognize and seem to take pity on abandoned infants of other species and take care of them as best they can, raising them as if they were their own (there are precedents for this: strange though it seems, there are rare cases of even human children being raised by wild animals). For months he was suckled by feral alley cats, who also cuddled up to him and kept him warm on cold winter nights. This was not entirely pleasant for him, but being dined on by the fleas that the cats carried was preferable to freezing to death.

Eventually, the cats were driven away by a family if large and ferocious Norwegian rats (you could tell by the accent) who appropriated the Dumpster as their own. Once again, this could have meant the end for Marty. But the rats, feeling some sort of strange kinship to this odd, helpless creature, decided that, rather than eating him, they would take care of him. As helpless and pathetic as he was, and with his wrinkled, pasty grayish-white skin and long incisors, he reminded them of a creature that was indigenous to Equatorial East Africa, and who, also being a rodent, may or may not be distantly related to them:   the naked mole rat (here and here), one of Mother Nature's more disgusting creatures.

Thus, under these unusual circumstances, Marty thrived as best as one could. He grew fat and strong on the provender that seem to rain down with some regularity when the lid was lifted, blinding him in the harsh daylight, but leaving he and his rattus norvegicus family a variety of treats:   such things as orange peels, wilted lettuce, half-eaten Big Macs, and the occasional stale Twinkie. A major treat in his young life was when someone tossed in a nearly half-full box of Froot Loops. The nearest thing to square meals he had in those early years came in the form of a discarded box of moldy Pop Tarts.

Because he had learned many aggressive survival mechanisms from his two adoptive families (the cats and the rats), as he grew larger and larger, the rats became afraid of him, especially when he took to eating their newborn ("Uff da!"), so they abandoned the Dumpster to seek safer refuge.

I might digress at this point to mention that, since his birth, twice a week Marty went through moments of sheer terror when the Dumpster suddenly moved, and accompanied by strange vibrations and metallic growling noises, was lifted up, and turned upside-down, causing all the accumulated contents to fall out. He always knew when this was about to occur, because his rattus norvegicus family (and the feral cats before them) always disappeared shortly before this happened. He barely managed to keep from being ejected with the rest of the trash by desperately clutching the protuberances of dried, unspecified crud that had adhered to the insides of the Dumpster. His terror gradually ebbed when the Dumpster was righted and returned to its former location. On a plaintive and somewhat unsettling note, he always wondered why, when his rattus norvegicus family (and the feral cats before them) returned and saw he was still there, they rolled their eyes and sighed wearily.

Much to his credit, and standing him in good stead (sort of) in his years to come, Marty whiled away the lonely hours by teaching himself to read. A small bit of light dimly illuminated the interior of the Dumpster because the lid didn't fit properly, and one day someone tossed in a well-thumbed and somewhat sticky copy of Hustler Magazine. This constituted Marty's "First Reader," and goes a long way toward explaining his current interests and modes of expression.

Over the years Marty began to feel that there had to be something beyond the confines of the Dumpster, but cowering in fear at the light that blinded him whenever the lid was raise, he knew practically nothing of the Outside World until he began receiving regular visits from a raccoon named Cyril [AHA! Here we go!], who lived in an overgrown vacant lot several blocks away. Cyril first dropped in (literally) to examine the menu du jour of the random but fortunately plentiful semi-edibles that rained into the Dumpster almost every day. Urbane, worldly wise, and a bit cynical (as befits a city-dwelling raccoon), but with a basically kindly nature, he took pity on the pathetic creature that inhabited the Dumpster. Now that the rats were gone, the poor creature's only companions were a horde of surly and uncommunicative cockroaches, the usual swarm of flies, and an occasional yellow-jacket that found its way under the ill-fitting lid.

During his regular visits, as they dined on leftover pizza crusts and licked the Omega 3 oils out empty kipper-snack cans, Marty told Cyril of his life in the metal box (not much to tell) and Cyril told Marty of the great world outside, often regaling him with tales of his many wonderful adventures. Marty's normally watery, squinting eyes opened wide in amazement as Cyril told him of the humans that predominated in the city, and instructed him in the ways of these humans, since, after eliminating a number of other likely possibilities, he judged Marty could possibly belong to that species. Finally, exhibiting tough-love, Cyril urged, encouraged, and even threatened Marty until he fearfully ventured out of the Dumpster, cowering and blinking, into the light of day. As he crouched bewildered and trembling there in the alley, he was overcome with something akin to agoraphobia. Although he wanted to desperately, he was much too nervous, shaky, and confused to figure out how to lift the lid and crawl back in. As he curled up in the fetal position, leaned against the Dumpster, sucked his thumb, and whimpered piteously, he had his very first encounter with personal hygiene. It began to rain.

It took years of long and bitter struggle as he gradually learned to adapt to the outside world, but eventually Marty was able to walk the streets of Chicago with no one really being the wiser about his strange beginnings in life. Despite the loose, grayish skin, the drooping, rheumy eyes, the overlong incisors, the tendency to drool, and the peculiar vocabulary—and because one meets some pret-ty strange people in a big city, he managed to achieved general acceptance as merely another human being [Biologist's annotation: Let us not forget that this classification has not yet been fully tested and that so far, we are relying on the random speculations of a raccoon!].

As fickle fate would have it, the vortices of happenstance (as described above) have swept Marty into that quadrant of the cyberspace galaxy in which Mudcat resides. And that, in essence, is the story thus far, folks.

Considering his unusual upbringing, it is understandable that his social skills may be a bit—well—trying at times. But knowing of his strange background, I'm sure that, in our greatness of heart, we will all take pity on him and therefore be willing to cut him a bit of slack.

Don Firth

P. S.: Undoubtedly there are those here who might wonder, "Doesn't Firth have something better to do with his time?" Well, certainly. But Cyril urged me to post this. He thought the world should know.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:11 PM

Can't do it at the meeting room at work./I>

I think the term for that is chickenshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:19 PM

A term which is hardly fair to chickens! After all, chickens too must eliminate waste in the only way Nature has allowed them to.

Don, I am amazed by those revelations. I await Martin's response.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

My previous reference to "Handyman" Don still obviously applies to someone so adept at "Hitting the nail on the head". You seem to have done just that again. It would appear to me that you have the makings of a Biographical epic here and could possibly have a "Best Seller" as well as a possible film offer when completed. Your literal talent shines through in abundance. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:00 PM

Thank you, Georgiansilver. You are a person of great keenness and discernment.

A major problem with a film, of course, would be casting. Who (or what!??) would play Marty?

Well, maybe computer generation is the answer. In LOTR, they seemed to have done pretty well with Gollum. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:21 PM

Martin Gibso-You are rubbish, I seen mooman in real life, and he's a good bloke, so don't say any bad things about him.
and you said he's got no job, but he's got his own company making musical instruments, so just shut up.

and I seen your messages that got deleted, you are bad, and i bet nobody likes you, and i bet you got no frends, and i bet you are shit at music, and i bet you can't play guitar, and i bet you got no job.

so just get lost and stop making trubble.john

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:34 PM

Still idly curious about which way "blessed" is meant to be pronounced in Georgiansilver's sign-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:49 PM

Still wondering who pissed in Martin Gibson's corn flakes? Little Hawk, If you really want to get to Spaw--start another thread on the Songcatcher movie!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:45 AM

McG of H....I make no secret of the fact I am Christian...not always a good one I must add but nevertheless a Christian. Although I might not like some of the things people do or say(including myself) I would always ask the Blessing of our God on all I meet in life or in the unreal life of Mudcat. As usual, this will make me yet again some sort of target for those who do not share my beliefs but Bless'em all anyway. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:57 AM

GS - I'm not a Christian but feel that anyone who can hold to their beliefs, in spite of opposition of whatever kind, is to be greatly admired.

Your blessing to others shows a caring for those with whom you come into contact and puts you in a different class from those who simply want to disipate their own anger in unpleasant attacks on others.

Don - you gave me the best laugh I've had in a while - and that's saying something - with the lowdown on Marty's origins. I await the next chapter with bated breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM

It's awfully easy to misconstrue things on the Internet when you can't hear the tone of a person's voice. I once got very pissed off because someone used the phrase "I can't believe..." in response to something I said. Now, "I can't believe that X happened" can be construed two ways. It can figuratively mean "I'm surprised that X happened" or it can literally mean "You're a liar if you say that X happened." In the context of the discussion, I took it literally, but on reflection, much later, it occurred to me that it might have been meant figuratively.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:12 PM

The Songcatcher movie? Hmmm. Okay, I'll check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:30 PM

I saw a great bumper sticker today, it said:

I'D SLAP YOU, BUT SHIT SPLATTERS.