BS: Senate Seat for Sale

Subject: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28139155/

I can honestly say that I never suspected that such corruption is possible. How do these people sleep at night?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM

What an idiot. What made him think that he wouldn't get caught? I hope we get to hear the names of anyone who made him an offer too.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

Jesse Jackson, Jr. approached him but I don't know any more than that.

Look: this is Illinois politics. This is the dude who lived in Chicago and worked in Springfield and so he flew to and from (at State expense) so that he could be home every night (instead of living in the very nice Governor's Mansion). Ryan, the previous governor, is in jail for corruption; so was Richard Ogilvie. Paul Powell, Secretary of State back in the late 60s/early 70s, was found to have shoeboxes full of cash money in his apartment after he died. This is the State of King Richard I, the State in whose favor the US Supreme Court ruled when the systems of nepotism and favoritism in use were challenged. This is the State of Tony Resko.

This is the state of four Presidents: Lincoln, Grant, Reagan, and now Obama.

Welkome, Bienvenue, Welcome
To Illinois, to the politics,
Of Illinois.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:25 PM

I think John McCain talked about politicians from Chicago during the campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:36 PM

Sorry -- Ogilvie wasn't among them....

Three former Illinois governors have gone to prison in the past 35 years.

-Otto Kerner, a Democrat who was governor from 1961 to 1968, served less than a year of a three-year sentence after his 1973 conviction on bribery, tax evasion and other counts. He was convicted of arranging favorable horse racing dates as governor in return for getting horse racing association stock at reduced prices. Kerner died in 1976.

-Dan Walker, a Democrat who was governor from 1973 to 1977, served 1 1/2 years of a seven-year sentence after pleading guilty in 1987 to bank fraud, misapplication of funds and perjury. The charges were not related to his service as governor.

-George Ryan, a Republican who was governor from 1999 to 2003, was convicted of corruption in 2006 for steering state contracts and leases to political insiders while he was Illinois secretary of state and then governor. He is serving a 6 1/2-year prison term.

In addition, William Stratton, governor from 1953-1961, was later indicted but was acquitted on charges of income tax evasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:42 PM

I wonder if their cells are anything like the nightmare at Reikers?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:00 PM

Grant - born and raised in Ohio, nothing to do with Illinois.

Lincoln - born in Kentucky, lived in rural Illinois.

Reagan - from the state, but moved to California in the 1930s. Preferred to live in semi-rural area if he could. A fine
             horseman, something that few people in Chicago politicians can claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM

OOPS Rikers

One ray of hope - Obama was putting forward his candidate of choice but they refused to give anything but a thank you. "**** that" was the governor's reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM

Grant -- lived, worked, and was elected from Galena.
Lincoln -- lived, worked, and was elected from the Springfield area.
Reagan -- we're trying for forget about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM

Link to ABC news.

Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich wanted President-elect Barack Obama "to put something together…something big" in exchange for going along with Obama's choice to fill his vacant U.S. Senate seat, according to a FBI affidavit unsealed following the Governor's stunning arrest.

"I've got this thing and it's f***ing golden, and, uh, uh, I'm just not giving it up for f***in' nothing. I'm not gonna do it. And I can always use it. I can parachute me there," Blagojevich said in a phone call secretly recorded by the FBI on Nov. 5, the day after the election, according to the affidavit.

"It is conduct that would make Lincoln roll over in his grave," said U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald in announcing the charges today in Chicago.

He said the Governor's efforts to "sell" the Senate seat was the "most sinister and appalling" of a range of alleged corrupt acts detailed in today's case.

the rest is on the page linked at the top.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:19 PM

I wonder if Obama made a counter offer?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:23 PM

Ho-hum...

I mean, lets get real here folks... Thos current governemnt we have is corrupt from top to bottom...

Our sheriff, Danny Presgraves, here in Page County, Va. is facing 22 felony charges...

And let me throw this out... Had the FBI, the IRS and the US Justice Department investigated Dick Cheney over the awarding of contracts to Halliburton then the indictments would sound just about the same, including all the bleepin' bleeps...

There is a "culture" that is firmly entangled in our corrupt system where every Senator has to raise $8000 a day just to have enough money to finance the next cmapaign... Until we figure out ways to elect peole without them having to raise so much money then I think it is incongruous for us to blame people who get caught doin' purdy much what the $yStem expects and demands...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:38 PM

Mary, m'luv, please. You lived in NYC. Of course you knew that such corruption existed.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:50 PM

Thus far, Jackson Jr. doesn't seem to be connected with this - there is some hint that an Illinois house member may have been prepared to pay cash up front, but it's way too early to tell.

What does seem to be clear is that the Obama administration wasn't willing to play along. Obama apparently did have a favorite candidate, a top aide, but wouldn't offer Blagojevich anything for it. As others have said, Blagojevich didn't take to this too kindly. "They're not willing to give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them," is the exact quote, according to Politico.

He also referred to Obama as a "mother[expletive]er" and said, "For nothing? [Expletive] him."

So the Republican's already evident attempts to somehow connect the President-elect with this scandal seem doomed from the outset. Obama comes out smelling like a rose.

Still, I imagine Obama woke to this news thinking, "This I don't need."

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM

"I wonder if Obama made a counter offer?"

Maybe he did & that's what got him busted?

Bastard should start breaking rock in Yuma, put him on a chain gang

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: kendall
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:06 PM

One of the many good things about Maine is, we have never had such a scumbag in any of our offices.
The worst one I can think of, Peter Kyros, was convicted of DUI. Come to think of it, so was Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:10 PM

Blagojevich did his shenanigans in the purview of US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald....his ass is grass, and Ramsey operates the lawnmowers...

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:17 PM

Here is a link to the actual indictment.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:15 PM

Dan, that can't be all of it. It gives only two Counts, and perhaps two (I didn't count) pages. The video comments of the prosecuting attorney mentioned seventy-six pages!

And the one you linked to makes no mention of the Senate-seat sale.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:23 PM

Not much to say that would add to the opinion, but a technical correction is in order:

Bastard should start breaking rock in Yuma, put him on a chain gang

Ain't no rocks big 'nuff to break in Yuma. It's all just little pebbles that float to the top of the sand - that they call "desert pavement."

Only thing for jailbirds to do there is "stack sand" and sweat.

The "historic" territorial prison would be an appropriate place for this guy; but some renovation would be needed since a couple of the walls fell down.

Same as for the troops stationed at the Ordnance Test Base there, where I spent most of a two year tour. (But we had big trucks to test for amusement, and a bar at the "club" on post.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:26 PM

Weird, Dave. I click on that link and get the full 78 pages - but it may be scrolled down to the end. Try scrolling up and see if the rest of it's there.

It's fascinating reading.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:52 PM

I didn't go far enough.

However, the Indictment was only two pages, and didn't mention the Senate seat. The affidavit in support of the Indictment made up the rest of the PDF.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:57 PM

Mick - I nearly cried when I read that article. Nothing in this country is sacred anymore. I don't believe I know anyone capable of selling a seat in the Senate. It is so obcene. Or maybe i am too naive for words.

Is this not akin to treason? Couldn't we just shoot anyone involved?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:08 PM

The "full indictment" is a .pdf, at least at the link in the msnbc article. Right click on the link, and "save target as" to get the whole .pdf document on your own computer, where you can open it and browse in it without "connection delays." It's 75 pages, but only 316 KB.

This should work the same: PDF of full indictment

*** *** ***

It appears that the gov was just "carrying on Illinois tradition."

See: Illinois has long legacy of public corruption at msnbc.

The affidavit includes a number of additional charges, aside from the offer to sell the Senate position. It likely will be a long and expensive trial ... unless they find a judge that works cheaply enough. (some are included among the "influenced" at the last link)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:14 PM

Word on the street is Rod Blagojevich is about to appoint Sarah Palin to the Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:16 PM

Oh yeah, it does. It's 76 pages long and Section 116 states:

116. In addition, in the course of the conversations over the last month, ROD BLAGOJEVICH has spent significant time weighing the option of appointing himself to the open Senate seat, and has expressed a variety of reasons for doing so, including frustration at being "stuck" as governor, a belief that he will be able to obtain greater resources if he is indicted as a sitting Senator as opposed to a sitting governor, and a desire to remake his image in consideration of a possible run for President in 2016, avoid impeachment by the Illinois legislature, make corporate contacts that would be of value to him after leaving public office, facilitate his wife's employment as a lobbyist, and assist in generating speaking fees should he decide to leave public office.

Talk about thinking too much of yourself!

I also think that the "President-elect" (as he is called in the document) must have given the green light for this.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:25 PM

Clearly the bastard's wife is as guilty. Can't tell me she didn't have knowledge of his dirty dealings if he was trying to finagle high paying job for her.

Is she being questioned? What kind of responsibility can the state and federal government place on her for knowing and not reporting such nefarious behaviour in an elected official? Or is Illinois one of those backward states where a wife is not permitted to testify against husband?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:38 PM

"Or is Illinois one of those backward states where a wife is not permitted to testify against husband?"

Are you sure that is what you intended to say?

Imagine divorce court if the wife is not permitted to testify against her husband.

I believe the concept is 'a wife cannot be forced to testify against husband'. Seems unlikely that she would, either, but the evidence may be strong enough that she may want to plea bargain.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:41 PM

Not only did she know about it; apparently she was actually in on some of the phone calls.

They also make several mentions in the indictment of "Deputy Governor A.), which worried me - would Blagojevich's replacement be implicated? But no - apparently in Illinois a "deputy governor" is different than a "lieutenant governor." Thank goodness.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:21 PM

Rapaire opined:

I also think that the "President-elect" (as he is called in the document) must have given the green light for this.

Based on what evidence? Other than prejudice, of course.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM

Bobert's right.
Blagojevich's actions are reprehensible (I'd add, "if only for the chutzpah of saying the things he said on the PHONE - AFTER Congress authorized Dubya's administration to tap everyone's phone lines without probable cause"), but they pale in comparison to the treasonous actions of that same administration.

Where's the outrage over the way the Bush administration has trashed the Constitution and trampled over citizens' rights and human rights in general?

Oh, and IMO one of the worst things about this breaking political scandal is that it has grabbed our quite unnecessarily tunnel-vision "news cycle," thus diverting attention from the workers' justified sit-inover Bank of America refusing to lend Republic Windows and Doors so they could pay severance and accrued pay to the workers before closing their doors.

The Illinois governor's actions are criminal and the story's a juicy one, but we really do have other matters of greater significance to the vast majority of people, and I hate to see those issues shoved out of public focus by preoccupation with political scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:27 PM

If Obama's choice for a replacement was turned down because he didn't offer anything to the Governor, I wonder why he didn't report that to the Special Prosecutor? It should have been clear to the President Elect that the Governor was violating the law by asking for a bribe.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM

What, Dougie???

You know somethin' that noone else knows??? You got Obama's phone tapped, 'er what??? Geeze, can I get a copy of them tapes??? I'll give you 100 bucks... No, make that 200 bucks for the tapes...

(Yer biddin' against yerself, Boberdz...)

Okay, make that 300 bucks fir the tapes... Come on, Dougie... We're tight, ain't we???

400 bucks???

500???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:39 PM

Mightn't it be better to wait until the trial is done rather than assuming that all the allegations stand up? I mean, that stuff about "innocent until proved guilty" may be a bit old-fashioned, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:42 PM

It's all in the fine ooooold American tradition (alas -- and not what they taught us in History class, either), right up there with buying votes, and getting voters drunk and telling 'em who to vote for and, the strongest tradition of all, profiting from the office.

Remember Spiro Agnew? Governor of Maryland and Veep under Nixon (another fine, upstanding American, cough, cough) -- in1973 during his 5th year as VP, the United States Attorney's office in Baltimore, Maryland investigated and brought Agnew up on charges of extortion, tax fraud, bribery, and conspiracy. He was charged with having accepted bribes totaling more than $100,000, while holding office as Baltimore County Executive, governor of Maryland, and Vice President of the United States. "On October 10, 1973, Agnew was allowed to plead no contest to a single charge that he had failed to report $29,500 of income received in 1967, with the condition that he resign the office of Vice President." (Wikipedia to check facts -- but I remember it all reasonably well).

Okay, and back to Illinois, how 'bout Chicago Mayor ("Organization, not machine! Organization, not machine!") Daley (the first one, of course)? Remember, I hail from Chicago's northernmost suburb -- Milwaukee (WI).

But neither Illinois nor Chicago has any monopoly on greed and corruption (not to mention arrogance).

Probably the most honest politian I can think of was Frank Zeidler, Socialist mayor of Milwaukee from 1948 (the year before I was born) until 1960. Took the streetcar to work every day and left office living in the same modest home he started out with. He certainly never profited from the being mayor and he had the best interest of Milwaukeeans at heart.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM

I kinda agree with McGee... I mean, O.J. beat the murder rap, didn't he??? Hey, when you go wiretappin' things can go very wrong with warrents and 4th Ammendment issues... And, hey, this Governor is gonna have plnety to spend on lawyers 'cause seems that he still has the Senate seat to sell off... He's still Governor, ain't he??? Heck, maybe he can sell off the Governor job, as well...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM

Actually, GUEST (who really should use some sort of name),
It's beginning to look like Obama's chief-of-staff designe, Rahm Emmanuel, may have been the one who tipped off the Justice Dept, and it may have been precisely BECAUSE Blagojevich tried to get a tit-for-tat re Obama's preferred replacement and Blagojevich was far from gracious when Obama refused to play ball.


Again, though, where was all the outrage when the Bush administration handed out federal govt. jobs, e.g., in the Justice Dept. -- jobs that are not supposed to be patronage jobs -- to political backers and cronies and fired qualified, competent workers in those depts. just for being Democrats?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:05 PM

Corruption in Chicago or Illinois!!!? To coin a phrase (via Claude Rains), I'm shocked!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM

Yeah, yeah, John. But do you really think politics in Texas and Alabama are any cleaner?

G

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM

I guess it's reassuring to see that, as far as corruption goes, there's no partisan politics. Crooks on both side of the aisle.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:24 PM

I think that Obama gave the green light because the "President-elect" is mentioned more than a few times in the affidavit.

Let Roddy get himself in deep and then drop the brick on his head before he sullies YOUR house.

I do think that Obama's hands are as clean as my own in this. For one thing, he's too smart and savvy to get involved. That is NOT to say that some around him might have their names mentioned in court....

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM

Lemmie see yer hands, Rap...

Awww, jus' funnin'...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM

When there was all the stuff about "cash for honours" in the UK a little time back it was generally regarded here as pretty hilarious. I don't mean the allegations were seen as trivial, but generally people like to see the politicos in trouble, almost regardless of party.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:38 PM

This thing is partyless! This bastard would be the shame of any party. I cannot see blaming the system for the obvious corruption of one very bad actor. It is disappointing he got as far as he did - but they nailed him - and he won't get away with it anymore.

The f*cker oughtta be run out of town on a rail!!

Why don't we do that anymore???

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:41 PM

Because it's so hard to get tar and feathers these days, Jed.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM

Perhaps it's the high price of tar?

Petroleum-based, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:53 PM

The allegation that the phone taps were done under the Bush "warrantless wiretaps" crap are not sustainable, as the affidavit for indictment clearly identifies the courts and judges responsible for issuance of the warrants (including dates and times of issue and of subsequent re-issues and extensions) under which the surveillance was done.

While I fully concur that the Bushisms are repugnant, they do not seem applicable in this case.

A bright light here is that the US Atty filing the charges is the same one who managed to get Libby convicted (not of the crimes but at least of lying about them) prior to the Bush pardon. [And do we all regret that he couldn't get to Cheney?]

John

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:03 PM

Why regret that regret that Fitzgerald couldn't get to Cheney for Richard Armitage's misdeed?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:12 PM

And while he is at it, perhaps he can give everybody an example of these "warrantless wiretaps" that the anti-Bush folks talk about so often.

I believe the president said he reserved the right to order such a thing in event of a national emergency, such as the 9/11 atrocity. All wiretaps in the past 8 years have been properly approved, as far as most people say. That cannot be said of of the previous 8 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:14 PM

So...did Caroline Kennedy back Obama with the promise of a Senate seat?