folksingers who quit,and why?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM

Jim Lad-Follow that up with a bunch of Bongo Ensembles and you've pretty well got what is now called a folk festival. Hmm...I take it you might be refering to "World Music." Although I dislike that umbrella term for anything not in your own language, it does encompass folk and traditional music, as well as contemporary music, and should at the least be recognized as such. I understand that YOU might want to attend a festival that is only traditional music of the English/Irish/Scottish/etc. variety, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think its a little insensitive to refer to a music you don't like as a bunch of bongo players. Not a personal assault, mind you, just an observation.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 08:04 PM

bodhran clouting traddies .......?

bongo bashing hottentots.....?

banjo carrying extremists.....?

introspecive navel gazing snigger snoggers....?

recidivist Childe Molesters.....?

Personally I'd ban the lot of 'em. theres too much of that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 09:25 PM

Djembes....?
Two a penny....
(doesn't quite rhyme..., but hey, a little bit of bad verse never went amiss on occasions like this....)

Why people quit?

A fairly common complaint that I've noticed over the years is that the enthusiasm can go.
Being a musician, 'professional' or otherwise is intrinsically a creative activity.
It has its own rat-race, though..., and too often I have seen the creativity sucked out of an artist by the stresses and impositions they face out there on the road.

Most of the people I know started playing music for a living because they loved the music.
We changed our lifestyle in order to do that which we love.
The road itself has taken many of us.

But there is quite a lot of disillusionment out there....

.... touch wood...

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Beer
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 09:47 PM

Sometimes it is just that they have no more to give and want to go in a different direction. Like maybe marbles or snaring rabbits. Who knows.
But we should always remember when we sing one of their songs to tell the listening audience who wrote it and as much history as we can to pass that history on. Because folk music in a lot of ways reflect things from the past,present and future.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 10:23 PM

"World Music" My arse!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 12:48 AM

i quit before i started ..


easier to cope with critics & disapointment that way...


though i reserve the right to start up afresh again after i retire...

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:09 AM

Yes I understand that, Tim.

The same twee observations in the same hackneyed way, and they make a virtue of it by calling it a tradtion.

So when you look for the language of your own world, its not there. You try to speak the language of your world and it sounds odd and unlyrical - because it is there to describe people and situations -not to luxuriate in a warm bath of nostalgia about a place and time that probably never existed.

I hope you don't quit, my friend.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Colin Randall
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:29 AM

My days as a floor singer are best forgotten. But in whimsical mood at Salut! Live(link offered in case anyone interested)I offered a variation of the theme of this thread: the one-off semi pro experience that's woeful enough to put you off for life. It certainly worked for me.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 06:42 AM

Nice one Colin!

Actually it doesn't get a lot better than that. You have a war story to tell. Those ones stick in your mind better than the other stuff.

Gigging pubs is more fun - you set off, you have an adventure - if you get them up dancing they become more uninhibited. The hardware is more exciting and nails the buggers in their seats. And to be honest - its folkmusic, for real folks.

you should have stuck with it. we need more Leonard Cohen to infuse the tradition with a bit of cheeriness!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 02:56 PM

I have seen a band at a festival, quite well up the running order, that was indeed a couple of Highland Great Pipes and many djembes. Not much need for a PA rig, and not indeed a huge difference between the different numbers.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:38 PM

Jim Lad, I do not know the festival scene in the Maritimes but if you can "fill your book for a year then in one week. Easily!" then you are doing immeasureably better than virtually any professional folksinger in this country except the very highly popular and sometimes not even then. Depends I suppose - they could all fill their books for by playing for nothing of course but I am sure that is NOT what you meant.

Why do you want to do festivals with a full booking diary? Is the money that much better than the gigs you are already doing? I really don't understand? I feel I am missing something in the difference between your "scene" and ours.

Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.

Richard name the band - I don't see the problem if you can defend you description as the truth. And if you can't and they recognise the description anyway..........:-)

The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.

My top of the bill artists this year included two singles (Vin Garbutt and Roy Bailey, two duos Spiers and Boden and Simon Mayor and Hilary James and some bands as above.

To BEE. I guess that is about right.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:48 PM

What's the difference between a large pizza and a professional musician?

A large pizza will comfortably feed a family of 4....

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:01 PM

OK: Soar Patrol

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:12 PM

Folkie Dave.
Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.QUOTE.you are confusing popularity with quality.
    The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.QUOTE
Yes, but nothing to do with folksinging.
your personal top of the bill,just tells us about your taste ,nothing else.
Generally speaking,at least 80 per cent[there are a few exceptions],folk festivals have become a Pot Pourri,a musical jamboree.
The purpose seems to be to put bums on seats,and pander to the next commercial pop/folk trend,these unfortunates a few years later are discarded,when the next so called exciting act comes along.
Groups/ singers,become throw away commodoties,who can be replaced,by the next hyped[wondersinger /band],all that appears to matter is finding a new wonderact each year.
moreover most festivals[in the UK] take place,in complete isolation and do not involve the local community at all.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Santa
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:34 PM

The local community are able to turn up if they want to. Folk festivals are not exactly held in secret, they are advertised locally, they do tend to occupy local pubs, and the dancers dance down the street. But I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the thread. Are you suggesting that folksingers quit because of barriers put up to prevent locals attending festivals?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 06:10 PM

Santa: It was I who suggested that if folk entertainers knew that they could get the opportunity to play main stage at summer festivals then they would have one more reason to stick around rather than switch over to the hospitality industry as I and many others have done.
Folkie Dave. Not like you to pop in and out without reading the whole thread. Maybe put on your favourite Battlefield Band album for background music while you read through it.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:53 AM

Well, for the benefit of the snipers in the long grass, I've been to have a listen at some of Jim Lad's stuff I can trace on the internet. Not a representative sample - I got bored with the downloading!

I tend to excessive bluntness and to being hypercritical, so read the following in that knowledge.

While what Jim does is not my preferred style (it is mostly Irish and some Scottish) it presents the songs very well. Jim has a very pleasant voice in the gentler Irish style (the style could be simply the accidents of the tracks I listened to) and conveys the narrative extremely well. I also sense a real emotional connection to the lyricism of rural Irish song. I think Cap'n Birdseye would approve.

It might however work better in the small venue, the pub back room, rather than the big stage. The big stage tends to demand the flash, the razzle-dazzle, the grand gesture, rather than narration. I didn't see that, and I preferred what I did see for the absence of it.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:30 AM

Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.QUOTE.you are confusing popularity with quality.
    The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.QUOTE
Yes, but nothing to do with folksinging.
your personal top of the bill,just tells us about your taste ,nothing else.
Generally speaking,at least 80 per cent[there are a few exceptions],folk festivals have become a Pot Pourri,a musical jamboree.

Dick I see you are back to the old ways of making assertions with no evidence to back them up.

Which folk festivals have you been to where this happens? Was this a nationwide survey or limited to England - or Ireland or what? Or is it as we both know - simply a personal opinion with no real evidence to substantiate it.

To say Kathryn Tickell who is a fiddle player has nothing to do with folk singing is to state the bleeding obvious.

Now rephrase that and say she has nothing to do with folk MUSIC. To my mind holding a large audience of 800 simply with traditional (or traditional style) tunes and minimal chat over a 90 minute period is an achievement to be proud of. Shame she is not a singer I suppose.

Finally to say festivals do not involve the local community is nonsense. That may be the case where you live but most festivals go out of their way to involve the local community. Amongst other things it can be a source of funding and having the local people on your side is absolutely imperative.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:54 AM

Folkie Dave.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
I said 80percent,NO,I havent done a survey ,and I may be exaggerating,but most folk festivals are attended by folk enthusiasts,who are not local[do you agree ].most events at folk festivals,are attended by folk enthusiasts,who have travelled to get there.
Folk festivals are generally speaking not community festivals.[and you know it.
Kathryn Tickell,is a fine folk musician.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:15 AM

Well here are the words you wrote Dick.

moreover most festivals[in the UK] take place,in complete isolation and do not involve the local community at all

Dick it just isn't true. Most folk festivals do involve their local community for the reasons I have already pointed out. It is often in the form of reduced price admission; they involve them as stewards; they involve them in things like community choirs; and they involve them through local schoolchildren for which they can get grants. Two festivals I can think of do ALL of those things. The local community supports the festival with small scale sponsorship. Locals come to dances, watch street activities and enjoy sessions - mostly.
Some towns rely on festivals for tourist income - or does that not count as local? Some schools do well out of holding a festival on their grounds or does that not count as local? Try taking away Shepley Spring Festival from the local cricket club and see how far you get!

They are not "community festivals". Of course they aren't it is a different sort of festival.

Where I live there isn't a Walkley Folk Festival (though there is a community festival) so of course I have to travel. Same applies to most people. If people did not travel to folk festivals then the artists would not need to travel either. Is that what you are advocating?

Rant over.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:20 AM

I missed this bit. Again I quote your own words.

I said 80percent,NO,I havent done a survey ,and I may be exaggerating

So the figure of 80% is one you made up? Good that you admit it.

It isn't that you are exaggerating Dick it is just based on nothing whatsoever and thus has no real value.

You are of course entitled to your opinion - as ever so long - as you make it clear it is your opinion and nothing more and does not have spurious statistics like 80%.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:23 AM

That should read:

You are of course entitled to your opinion - as ever - so long as you make it clear it is your opinion and nothing more and does not have spurious statistics like 80%.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM

Surely the captain is right that most "big stage" folk festivals neither draw many artists nor many audience from their locales.

Ely and Broadstairs do have the Morris sides out to the local streets, and Broadtsars and Sidders have music (alas in the case of Broadstairs mostly not folk music) in the local pubs. Likewise Deal is a street festival, largely. But even Tenterden (again, lots of street dance) has most of the concerts in places where the local public will be much in a minority. Miskin did try very hard to keep a local element to booked guests, but alas at present it is not, hope as we may for it to rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

The campus festivals by their very nature charge for site admission, which means that the passing local will not be in attendance, and to suggest that stewards are motly drawn from local folk would I think be abold assertion. Many festivals advertise across the country for stewards, and from across the country they come.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,Sparkles
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 06:12 AM

I started following this thread because its supposed to be about why people should give up doing something they love. Can we get off this festivals kick or make another thread about it?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:06 AM

Some of 'em get dysphonia, hysterical or otherwise.

Some become alcoholics - not difficult on the UK folk circuit I would think!

Some of 'em aren't businesslike. They should emulate people like John Kirkpatrick, already mentioned in this thread. I was incredibly impressed with John's merchandising operation at our village hall a few years ago - before, after and at half time out came the CDs AND a battery plastic card reader! He had about 30 quid off me in two shakes of a lamb's wotsit - and good for him.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Grab
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:53 AM

FolkieDave, if only 60 people turn up to a festival dedicated to traditional singing, the possible conclusions are one or more of the following:-

1) the festival wasn't well organised or publicised.
2) the festival was charging too much (unlikely from the sound of it!)
3) there aren't enough people interested in traditional singing to fill a festival

If the answer is (3), which I honestly think is the case, then the answer is simple - your chosen field of performance is an extreme niche market and as such is not economically viable. At the other end of the spectrum, I suspect bands playing death metal and experimental jazz have similar problems - what they do may be pushing the boundaries of mainstream taste, and it may be very good in its genre, but that doesn't mean you'll get folk through the door.

Graham.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:42 AM

Richard: The address I gave you was for my space where you will find 4 home recordings. They are gentle and three of them are my own. They are however "Home Recordings".
You will find more at my home page .
As for my live performances. I can handle any stage. Like most good soloists, I am as much a comedian and story teller as I am a singer.
I'll have the whole audience singing by the end of the second song (on a bad night) and when I deliver a message, you can hear a pin drop. To coin a phrase: I can hold them in the palm of my hand Easily!
Now isn't that just what a folk entertainer is supposed to do.
I cannot be a band but if counting microphone stands is what you're into......
No problem with your being blunt but to measure me as a performer by listening to a few songs I recorded in my basement is wrong of you.
It does however point to exactly what the festival organizers are doing.
Think I'll go buy myself a yellow toga & bongo drum.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:43 AM

Sorry: Two of them are my own. I forgot what was on there.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:47 AM

Grab: The answer is "3) there aren't enough people interested in traditional singing to fill a festival" which takes us back to the original question... Why do we quit?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 12:57 PM

I take no heed of Folkie Dave,waffling on about surveys,of course he hasnt done any himself,.
He is far too busy watching Sheffield United,murdering the beautiful game.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 01:13 PM

I take no heed of Folkie Dave,waffling on about surveys,of course he hasnt done any himself

You are right Dick I haven't. The difference is that I didn't claim to know the results of any.

As far as Sheffield United are concerned. I have seen them play nine times this season and the reserves twice. Under the new management of Brian Robson and Brian Kidd they are trying to get the ball down a play football as it ought to be played. They are improving, currently the form team of the Championship. COYRAWW! (Come on you red and white wizards).

Sorry for the thread drift.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM

with Bryan Robson as manager they havent a chance,He has failed everywhere he has been.ask some Middlesborough fans.
Red and White wizards,have you been at the Fly Agaric.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:21 PM

Hey Jim - Easy Tiger - I said I liked it (even if it wasn't my genre).

I even made the point that I might not have listened to a representative sample. I also made the point that I was hypercritical.

May I suggest that you should point people from here at your main site, then we can all form a view?

I'm quite happy to revise my opinion if I find material having that effect on me.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:28 PM

The m3u files seem not to play the mp3 files unless there is something I have not figured out.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:45 PM

... well it's tough jumping into this discussion so late, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart.

I worked part-time at music for years in the 70's and 80's. I rekindled my interest in music and performing in the late 90's. Bought a beautiful Larrivee guitar, starting playing clubs and festivals and gave up my dayjob in Jan 2000. It hasn't been easy - but I've made it work and I even had to pay income tax the last two or three years (a dubious milestone yes - but one sign of "progress in America").

Having said that - I cannot tell you how many times I wish I could quit! The world of "folk" music, well it just isn't a very big pie! But I am determine and committed. So I slug away. I figure out what I'm doing wrong and try to fix it. I'm figure out what I'm doing right and try to improve it. I figure out the places where I cannot be successful and I try to stay away from them.

It is tough when venues that you know would be excellent for you don't give you the time of day - but I understand, They are swamped with quality acts - and they probably don;t need you! That doesn't stop me from trying - but it does make realize I just have to find another way in.

I don;t know what the answer is - I'm still working my ass off just trying to keep it going. BUT I do love what I'm doing!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:46 PM

I'm sure there's something you haven't figured out.
Try not to read "Tone" into my response.
There's no anger there.
Back to the point though. Why do folk singers quit.
Many of us switch over to the Hospitality Industry, simply because the Folk Circuit cannot support us.
I could play every single week-end at one or two different folk clubs who would gladly welcome me back in 18 months. I'd be working for what they can afford, living in some of the saddest excuses for billets (on occasion) and be constantly on the road. CD sales would amount to 10% of the audience, on the west coast and rising to about 20% the farther east I go. I'd be a household name among folkies, broke and alone.
The Hotel, pub, restaurant industry pays more and regularly without the need for so much travel. Outdoor markets are also extremely lucrative and in most cases I sell more than the vendors do as well as getting paid for it.
Not a difficult decision for me at all.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:56 PM

Jed is a perfect example of what I was discussing. I have noted in the past that he keeps a very busy summer schedule, travels extensively and plays Highland Games venues as well as Irish festivals. (If you can please the Scots, you can please anyone)
I imagine that the few days he's not travelling to and from, are spent trying to get stock ready and make contacts for future work.
Not a lot of time for anything else.
Tough going but lots of fun. Congratulations on the "Tax" thing, Jed.
Been there, got the "T" Shirt.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 03:05 PM

Sorry for my part in thread drift, but I think Captain, you answered your own question with your original post-economics, and as others have noted as well, the distance between gigs and the economic factors that creates. As to why, I can only guess as a nonperformer the demoralizing you might get from a gig you have drawn attention to and still only get 20 people to show up, 5 of them being friends.I know I have been to my fair share of those over the years.Even clubs here in the states that are organized, have newsletters with upcoming shows, good websites,etc you think might help, but sometimes, its all for nothing, and if you've just driven in a van with no airconditioning from Maine to New York (as Kathryn Tickell told me had happened at her NY gig a few years back) and no one shows up, its got to be hard. BTW, I'm glad to say that at least in Kathryn's case, lots of people did show up, but then opening for Maddy Prior may have helped as well! So for the prevention of this happening, I wish I could tell you, but all I can do is go to as many gigs as I can, whether the results are good or not.
Cheers

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:37 PM

I was trying to be very "even keel" about that response...

Still am....

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:46 PM

NO Guest - I believe there is no cause for alarm. It is not appropriate to say say RIP full time touring folkies. I think my point is; it's hard but it's possible. I'm doing it. Anything worth having is worth working hard to obtain. I'm at the bottom of the full time folkie barrel - lots of more talented folks do better. As difficult as it is - I wouldn't trade places with anyone - and I still love what I'm doing.

I just winge a little, from time-to-time!

;-)

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:13 PM

I'm turning work down in my neck of the woods, in Ireland, too .... In fact, I turn down more than I actually play.

If you're looking at it as purely a business transaction, if you do a decent enough job the first time around, the repeat business should come of itself.
I'm no 'big name', but I still only work 8 months a year.

Quite a lot of it has to do with planning; just like any other business.

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 06:45 PM

"...Not if the business has closed down in the mean time."

No doubt.
But doesn't demand outstrip supply?

I've been asked to play pubs & clubs in England, (London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Cornwall....) but so far I haven't gotten around to it.

There are good venues out there (it takes a fairly large pizza to feed a family of four, these days), but if I lived in England..., judging by the offers of work..., I could manage a family of 3!
.... if she worked, the options would rise considerably....

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:02 PM

Look..., people quit for all sorts of different reasons. I feel like quitting on average about twice a year.

If music is your life, then you make you own way. You diversify, you play with different people.
You take what you do seriously!

Just as you would if you traded stocks all day.

Call it a job, call it a passion. That is your call!
Take the rough with the smooth, and grow with it, or question why you're in this game, at all.

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:21 PM

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:08 PM

Mind you, most Mudcat folkies will neither notice nor mind. The pro is some kind of a criminal to many here, who boast about never going to see concerts at festivals, and never booking guests at their clubs - because it's their music innit, and they don't need no high and mighty experts

I am not sure that "most" is right but I do agree with your general sentiment. There are a fair number and I have disagreed with them on here on a number of occasions.

However some people do make it. Bella Hardy; Devil's Interval; Lisa Knapp; Kerfuffle; Last Orders; Damien O'Kane and Shona Kipling; Spiers and Boden, Mawkin:Causley,; Hekety/Crucible have all served their time. Seth Lakeman was an overnight success at 28 or so having played publicly since he was about 14.

alf of Waterson;Carthy is 60+; Vin is now over 60; Roy Bailey is about 70; I could point to others whose ages are not so well-known, BUT - if they are a draw and people come and see them they will go on.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:33 PM

Brendy: - I think we're both looking at the question a little differently. You're talking about Pub gigs and I thought the question was more about folk gigs. I made the switch years ago and have done less & less Folk Club gigs as the years go by. I'll agree with most of what you say but have to add that the Folk Scene is a completely different game when it comes to return gigs & money.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:34 PM

I'm not patronising you.
I, personally, have not been exposed to the downside of it.

It begs the question, though: "Why fly a guy from Denmark (or Norway), put him up in a decent B&B, feed him, give him a decent enough fee, and fly him back, when there's a similar artist living 50 miles away?"

And to be willing to do this every 9 weeks?

Beats me....

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:36 PM

I'm talking about both, Jim.
I have a number of different sets, depending on the venue.

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:40 PM

Look at the 'Stealing Gigs' thread ! There is NOT enough CASH in Folk Clubs these days - Most of my Gigs now are Corporate Entertainment , NOT Folk Clubs !

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Forsh
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:43 PM

I know how the audience not enjoying you can get you down, and I was just starting out! It took a few years (about 20) to get over it, but I will always have happy memories of 700 or so holiday makers joining in when I got up to do my party piece! Also the fun I have had just busking or entertaining mates at a party.
What do I do now? Well, I organise clennell Hall folk Festivalin northumberland! (day job I work in supported housing, where I also run a 'guitar club'!) I gues that in folk it is hard to fill clubs with punters who will pay the fee which represents the actual value of the act. Heck, If I can get to se one or two decent acts a year, at £10 - 20 each + travel + drink 7 food, then I am well pleased!
Also, there are some great semi pro acts on the circut, in northumbria region I can think of loads, all who are regularly on the regional circut, and can be enjoyed for around £5 door enrtance.
As an organiser I baulk at hearing someone ask for £350+ cos I know that the venue would struggle to attract, "can we pull in 50? then that'll be £7 a head!" There are no guarentees, of course, but one act who charged that price v 'a certain % of the door', made just that, and I later heared from a 'representative' that they were a bit disapointed with that! Great act, mind you, but cant aford to hire again! Some of us are disadvantaged by location you know!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,Not the other Guest
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:50 PM

Brendy whether you mean to or not you do come across as patronising. You say you could manage fine in England but you haven't actually tried it have you? Come over and support yourself for a year in the folk scene and then preach to us*. Anon has been there. You haven't.

*That is, if you could get the gigs. Not because you're not good enough but because they're

N O T

T H E R E.

Get it?