BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

McGrath rightly refers to British rule in the many countries they held in their sway, I am reading "William Russell, Special Correspondent, of The Times", his report on the Indian mutiny reveals the racism and intolerance of the British ruling class in India.
This was par for the course in all of the countries her or his majesties writ ran, as McGrath says "what goes round comes around"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:58 AM

Josh or may I call you bastard - fuck off
opps nearly went off on one then - but alas I'm quite sure that is exactly what you want. Crawl back into your sewer with the rest of the vermin (the vermin wont like it though)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:33 AM

what about this C of E Bishop who wants to ban the hymn I vow for thee my country because he thinks it is racist?

It seems to me that we are losing our English identity.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:43 AM

According to the Guardian, he does not want to "ban it because it is racist" , he thinks it ought not to be sung in Church because the first verse in particular is over-nationalistic, placing country above God. Whether you agree or not, it seems perfectly proper for a Bishop to be concerned about such things.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:01 PM

It may be interesting to read peoples comments if we started a new thread on this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:11 PM

Feel free to create one!

According to the Guardian article, what he said was:

"But any notion of national superiority or fierce independence while pouring scorn on our neighbours is profoundly unchristian and wrong." And that he is suspicious of "a white dominated simple world of Englishness where pounds and not euros, gallons and not litres, reign supreme".


It's an interesting definition that makes that a racist remark.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:09 PM

John from Hull — good catch on the imminently-eminently thing. I never said I was perfect. The "everything word" slip shouldn't have been too hard to figure out, even for you. I changed what I was saying and forgot to erase the "-thing" part.

But I wouldn't be too smug if I were you. You didn't seem know the name of the party under discussion and you don't seem to know that there are spelling differences between the U.K. and North America. "Recognize" and "realized" are the accepted spellings for more than 300,000,000 people on this side side of the pond.

Gadzooks, man, you fight unfairly. You try to pick a battle of wits knowing full well I won't fight an unarmed man....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM

What exactly IS is your English identity, Burntstump? In fact what is England, given that it is not an administrative region of the UK and neither is it a sovereign state?

Maybe you've got John Betjemen's splendid prayer in mind:

....Keep our Empire undismembered,
Guide our Forces by thy hand,
Gallant blacks in far Jamaica,
Honduras and Togoland.
Protect them Lord in all their fights,
And even more, protect the whites.

Think of what our nation stands for,
Books from Boots and country lanes.
Free speech, free passes, class distinction,
Democracy and proper drains.
Lord, put beneath thy special care
One eighty-nine Cadogan Square....

If you wanted a world in which anyone from the next parish was a stranger, I'm afraid you've arrived in the wrong century. Around the world, countless millions are waking up to the iniquities around them, and doing exactly what Norman Tebbitt (your mentor, by any chance?) told them to do. That is, they are getting on their bikes. And even if every last one of us goes to defend our borders, they won't be stopped. They see a better world for their kids, they are determined to go for it, and I wish them well.

ddw, it's a bit feeble to sneer that someone is unarmed when you've just picked a fight with him and lost.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:18 PM

He didn't get the name of the party wrong. He was using the name that alot of us on this side of the pond employ, as it describes them better and lets everyone who has never heard of the BNP get a rough idea of their manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:19 PM

I am quite stunned how people can call me a bastard which is in itself a very quick judgement. I do consider myself very fortunate to have been born in the UK and appreciate it everyday.

But I do believe a great deal of the people who have commented here are massive hypocrites (let's all not get picky about spelling). I would surely enjoy it, if each person saying it's is wrong to vote BNP if they found themselves with the pleasure of living next to an asylum seeker estate. Where your house gets broken into and your car robbed. Then you see these people parading round in highly expensive, modified cars, wearing gold and not able to (or rather choose not to) speak English.

Then you lose your job at say, a call centre or factory, because they are willing to work below minimum wage rates and ignore paying income taxes or any other taxes to the government.

Oh and then, you find your daughters and female teenagers are being groomed for sex by asian men, who are tied into betrothed marriages set by their parents. These are the facts of where I live. Come and live where I live. I had the unfortunate pleasure of being caught in the race riots of 2000 in Oldham, but I will readily admit, this was both white and asian teens, proving they are 'men.'

White people are as bad as Asians. I would happily vote for a less extreme party, but the options avilable are useless. The Conservatives lack drive and the Liberal Democrats are too EU orientated. And briefly on that subject, I believe there are many benefits to ebing with the EU but so far we have given far much more than we have received. There lacks unity.

I am glad many have replied to my topic. It is very provoking but something which everyone tries to bury and be politically correct about.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:12 PM

There are good and bad in every community and that goes for assylum seekers as much as it does for any other group. However the overwhelming majority of such are genuine and the actions of a few should not be used to punish the rest. My brother in law does a lot of work with various groups in the Coventry area and the vast majority of them have very good reasons to be here and do not abuse the system at all. As for the BNP they take examples of the less honest and quote them to fuel blatant racism and if you choose to vote for them you may just as well wear a black shirt and swastica and have done with it! I could quote examples of the behaviour of so called 'British' people to the same end if I chose to but choose rather to quote the Jackson Five 'One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch'

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:41 PM

ddw-YOU mentioned the spelling, not me, you also suggested that I have a poor vocabulary, you also stated you have made a living through writing english for over 30 years, yet as I pointed out, you use incorrect words in your posts!
Whats that saying about greenhouses and stones?

Anyway, I've better things to do with my time, than argue with racists and idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:52 PM

GUEST, Josh,

I didn't call you a bastard. I told you to eat shit. FYI.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 PM

Just incase nobody called Josh a bastard, I would like to rectify that.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:59 PM

Josh, you are not seemingly a bastard, but you are a guest, which is tantamount around here. I'm pleased that you can rise above the bilious outpourings here and still continue to state your case.

My counsel is to become active in mainstream politics, not the tin-pot parties like the BNP and the MRLP. The saying 'Some grin and bear it, others smile and change it' applies here. He's not my cuppa, but that Michael Howard was opining about challenging the political correctness only this week. Our own Cllr is of the same hue, and whilst I don't share his exact politics, I count him as a personal friend and drinking buddy, and he is an effing good example of someone who is making a difference by actually doing something rather than saying 'something should be done'.

So, become or state your membership here, get active in politics with a social conscience, and listen to mooman, as he is a Buddhist, and a very incisive thinker. And enjoy living in this wonderful country.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/__121b_sf6Ml0n1p93sfzJxgvsOZUd4lnnfHNeG9I8DN0byXK+K2ecuxWL2AA==

There is no Josh folks...read this site, sorry I can't do the clicky business. Does it sound familiar? Even down to the cars and phones?

Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory. Can't imagine how that could have happened, what with all the love and tolerance being shown here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:52 PM


There is no Josh folks...
Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory.

That's what Carol said when this thread first appeared.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: pdq
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

She is cute, smart and plays the accordian. You are a lucky man, Jack. (er, two out of three ain't bad, really...)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:01 AM

Yep, And I LIKE the way SHE plays the accordion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM

"Thank's for your support."

This appears at the bottom of the page that one is taken to by the link a few posts up--good eye Guest. Seems they love Britain but have difficulties with the apostrophe. I know we all make errors when we post, but ya figure that in an ad that introduces the Party to people, they might have wanted to get that sort of thing looked at by someone competent. Jaysus.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:53 AM

That person is not me, but another example of a similar situation. I am a student and live in Oldham. I am not here to recruit I just thought I'd make my point.

About me doing something... well I could never make a good politician plus there are even bigger things to worry about that I am putting my efforts into - renewable energy sources.

As for the guest thing, I'll get that sorted as soon as I figure how to and have some time this evening!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:53 AM

Oh, joy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:41 AM

Josh, just think of the consequences of your actions. If the BNP were to be voted in as the government of the UK, how long would it be before they called for complete repatriation of all 'immigrants' and not just a halt on asylum seekers? How long before discrimination against gays was completely acceptable? Would Jews be able to go about their lawfull business without fear?

The BNP are doing a very good job of masking their thuggish image by having 'ordinary' men and women stand as candidates in elections - they even had an Asian supporter on one of their recent election broadcasts (very clever!), but the rank and file BNP supporter is still a thug no matter how much the BNP publicity machine tries to sanitise them. The BNP are using people like you who think (erroneously) that they are not racists, just put upon patriots who want the best for their country and their fellow citizens. You are just playing into their hands by believing that they wouldn't go further than just stopping asylum seekers. Their ultimate goal is for an all white Britain.

You say you come from Oldham and you have had bad experiences with local Asian youths and asylum seekers. I live in a predominantly white area, and we're having a lot of problems with the local yobbish youths, none of which are Asian or black, just good old Anglo Saxons, who get away with terrorising the locals, being cruel to animals, taking drugs, binge drinking and doing the odd bit of vandalism and arson for good measure. The police seem powerless to stop them. Just where are they going to be sent back to? Saxony? Scandinavia?

Some people are just blinkered by the colour of someones skin, and like to overlook the fact that their is good and bad in all races and creeds, and are willing to scapegoat the ones who stick out most because of their colour. It's sad that in this day and age this still happens, and unfortunately Josh, you are carrying on this nasty tradition.

You may have convinced yourself that you're not racist, but you're voting for a racist party who are using ordinary, decent, frightend people for their own ends. Just like the Nazis did. Don't be fooled.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:46 AM

Sorry Josh, I misunderstood you when I said you were probably not a racist but misled. After the outpouring on Aug 13 at 6:19PM I would like to change that. At worst you are probably a racist and at best stupid to not only believe the propaganda but spout the same drivel.

As I said at the end of my last post. My father was a political refugee from the communist regime which took over Poland at the end of WW2. He arrived as a university educated son of an accountant. He took work in coal mines and on building sites and established a family and a fair life. He was one of the hundreds of thousands like him that did.

Does anyone hear about the thousands of Kosovans, Bosnians and Iraqis that do the same now? No. Did you hear the one about the Serb with the Rolex watch? Bet you did. Did you hear about the Afgani doctor who took work in factory at £2 an hour to feed his family? No? Probably heard about the Pakistani who bought Porche while on benefits though...

Yes, please leave this country. Go to where hard working and poor minorities are persecuted instead. You may get a better picture.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:49 AM

re the what is English comment

Ask someone fron Scotland, Wales or Ireland what they are, so why can't I be English? In my dictionary English is belonging to England and an Englishman is from England.
I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so! If you are saying there is no such thing as England and English people don't excist then you are being racist, which I don't think for one minute you are.
The term English is one that Tony Blair and the Labour Party shuns away from using, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Tam the bam (nutter)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:17 AM

How can you vote BNP and say that you're not racist, of course you are if were not a racist then you wouldn't vote for a RACIST party.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM

Is it not possible to question the present immigration policy without being called racist?
Can we not exchange views without name calling?
There is an issue here. Why are some determined to stifle it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:22 AM

"Do you think the Irish have a right to want the English out? I'll bet you think Iraqis have a right to not want the U.S. in their land. So how can you — and all your ilk, if I'm guessing right about he basis for you name-calling — support the "national struggles" of the Irish against the English and Iraqis against Americans, and then condemn the English for getting upset what an alien culture imposes itself on them — and demands that they pay for it?"

Interesting point ddw, but there is quite a big difference in the situations you describe and the one faced in Britain with asylum seekers i.e asylum seekers are not an army armed to the hilt imposing their will on an entire nation through occupation.

Asylem seekers are not imposing their culture on Britain, they are bringing it with them as many other peoples who have settled in Britain have done before them which makes Britain the diverse place that it is, and in my oppinion, we are all the better for it. Most Britons on this messageboard are here because we value our music and culture and want to see them kept alive to florish. We know what our culture is and I for one don't feel it's being threatened by asylum seekers or any other immigrant who settles here. It is under threat from the majority of Britons who don't give a stuff about their own culture and sneer and laugh at the very mention of folk music or morris dancing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:27 AM

"..the arguments put forward by the originator of this thread are extremely typical of the propaganda BNP put forward. I simply don't believe that it is an "ordinary joe" making a justification...."

Cllr has said here precisely what I was thinking. And I note that all of the previous postings under the name "GUEST,Josh" over the past four years so have been on music threads, and read very much as if they were by an American, which this one clearly isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:35 AM

OK, what's the issue, Keith?

Josh, if you are as decent as you claim to be, you would soon be sickened by the attitudes you would find predominating in the BNP. But maybe you will think again, and take to heart Dave Simpson's words above.

Here are a few lines I saw in a holocaust museum. I know nothing about the guy who wrote them (a Pastor Neumuller) but they are a useful reminder of what can happen when the likes of the BNP are left unchallenged.

First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the homosexuals,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a homosexual.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me.
And there was no-one left
To speak for me.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:54 AM

The actual words Pastor Martin Niemoeller wrote were:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

(And here is a page about him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:07 AM

The issue is whether a nation should be allowed to control entry over its borders. Most other countries do. We do not. Some think that is OK. Some think it will lead to tension and unrest. It is an issue.

Consider population density. How many countries have a higher one? this leads to pressure on resources such as housing. We have a housing crisis. Ordinary workers can not afford homes.

We have to make special provisions for nurses, teachers and firefighters or we would have none in our towns. ordinary workers are stuffed.

Assylum seekers have to be provided with homes and so are placed before others in the provision of social housing. I am not saying this is wrong, just that it inevitably causes tensions.

Most countries arrest illegal immigrants. We do not anymore. Recently near Hertford a number were caught when they ran from a van. The police gave them the fare to go to a reception centre and sent them on their way. I'm not saying that is wrong, but others do it differently.
I have heard some British people describe their experience in USA when they were found to have minor Visa infringements. They were held IN CHAINS for over 24 hours and then expelled.

There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:24 PM

I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so!

The Asians aren't from Ireland, Scotland or Wales either, so that make them English! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM

Josh-how did you find this site?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:26 PM

Well there are plenty of asylum seekers here in Hull, but there is far more trouble caused by ignorant young white drunken idiots who were presumably raised in this country from good old Anglo Saxon stock. I wish that they would all fuck off...

And Josh, are you sure that you can tell that an asylum seeker is an asylum seeker as he drives past in his car wearing his gold. Or is he a third generation person of Asian origin who has done very well for himself through hard work and application. Let's face it, pal, you are a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:44 PM

I recall a story that was told by a woman in eastern Canada. She was black, and when asked by someone what island she came from--a reference to Haiti or Jamaica, etc--she responded, "Montreal."

Keith A and Josh: I am trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't stick my head that far up my ass. This party you are supporting advocates that all people who are not white be returned to their country of origin. Doesn't that sound just a bit racist to you? And you have the disingenuousness to say, "There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?" What's to discuss. Read what your Party advocates. And please stop with the crap. You won't get too many takers here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:24 PM

I do not appreciate unconstructive comments from people, but very much relish people giving well formed opinions here. Thankyou.

D Simpson, you are quite right and the odds of me ever voting for the BNP again are very low. I do appreciate there are as many bad white people which is why I am not racist as some of you may believe. At the time, I was living in Birmingham in an area where white people were the minority and I was getting sick of living there as I was made to feel so unwelcome by the neighbours who happened to have a habit of using the white people in the area for target practice with their air guns. Not fun.

For the record, if I was to move to another country, I would expect NO help from them in supporting me. I would use what money I had to set up and I would get ANY job available until I could find something more suitable.

DtG: It is of my opinion that hard working and poor minorities are the ones that get screwed over in this country.

Keith A of Hertford, ur comment at 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM was spot on. I'm trying to achieve something constructive here and give people the opportunity to help me see another way.

On the subject of the Irish, I would gladly pass Northern Ireland back to Ireland but the inhabitants of that nation WANT TO STAY WITH US, so that is what they shall do, despite the cost of many soldiers lives. I was in Manchester City centre when the bomb went off so I have a direct POV on that one.

I do appreciate the culture different nations bring to us but it's a simple shame that they segregate themselves from the nation of the UK.

I found this Mudcat website through yahoo search engine when I was looking for info about oil reserves, oddly enough.

I am an ordinary Joe but if you do not believe - fine. And maybe I have been influences by their propaganda and marketing, but I would testify it is more through MY OWN NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES.

Keith A - again u made a valid point later on. Perhaps I would be more specific to say I would like better border control. We should look after our own, properly, before helping others. We are totally incapable of looking the population we have so far, without letting more and more in! Consider this, the people trying to get through the channel tunnel at their own accord have passed through all the other European countries before reaching the UK, they did not claim Asylum at the first place they arrived at (which is what you're meant to do) so they obviously are finding something great about the UK. Which I do not mind. But these people slip into the underworld and can never be traced.

In conclusion, it is the way in which immigration is controlled and the power the Police have to be changed.

In general, I believe harsher punishment for major crimes, Murder and Rape being the big ones, should be increased, you could kill a guy and you get ten yrs, that is bang out of order. And then, if you kill a guy who is robbing ur house, in pure self defence, he's in your house remember! You then get sent to Jail. And oh, the git then sues u for damages! This has happened in the UK!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, depsite all the mess Labour have made for this country (hmm, higher council tax rates, poorer NHS, more and more stealth taxes, a war in the middle east which had no justification....) they will probably be voted in again.

Keep it coming people.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:39 PM

What you do or don't appreciate is not too high on my list of concerns. I don't like racists, regardless their arguments on behalf of racism. GFY.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: shepherdlass
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:51 PM

Josh, Please try translating your unfortunate experience (and, come on, there are a hell of a lot of Brits who drive uninsured out there) and your justifications to Germany c1937 or Alabama c1960. I'm sure most people who voted pro-Nazi and anti-Civil Rights also felt perfectly justified and non-racist. Guess what? They were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM

I am not a BNP person!
I have little to contribute to the discussion. It is not an something I have given much thought to.
I just noticed that Josh put forward an opinion and invited discussion, and the response was not a careful refuting of his points, but to call him names.
I would like to follow a reasoned debate on this because I still have an open mind.
If you disagree with Josh, say why. Fuck off bastard is a little negative.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:16 PM

OK, Keith, here ya go. I disagree with Josh because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. I agree that you have little to contribute to the discussion, so stop.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

I personally like fuck off bastard...so fuck off you racist prick!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

brucie:

" because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. "

If this is reason enough to disagree with someone, can any of us EVER agree on anything?


I find a large number of "bigots" here, at all points of the political spectrum. ANYONE who is not willing to listen to another's viewpoint, but insists on presenting his/her own qualifies.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:26 PM

Brucie, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Not my party, I have none.I was comparing how this country
deals with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, with how others, for instance yours does. Surely the relative merits could be considered reasonably. I hope so, because I would be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM

Keith,

Look again at the title of the thread.

He calls the BNP, "thugs" in his first post, it is certainly clear, from other things I have read here, that the BNP is racist. I think Josh deserves to be told that he is a racist, He is supporting a racist organization for racist reasons. I think he should be told that in the starkest and most stident way until he realizes and accepts his obvious folly and retracts it. I don't say this for myself. I say this for him and his neighbours. It's time he learned that he can't look at a whole class or race of people through the lens of a couple of bad experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:43 PM

Beardedbruce

"If this is reason enough to disagree with someone"

1) Because he supports racism, and because I will not get drawn into an argument about the relative merits of racism with anyone, the answer to that part of your question is yes.

2) This is your first post to this thread and that's all ya gotta say? My reasons for not liking Mr Josh were made claer earlier. He supports a racist party. When Keith said, "If you disagree with Josh, say why.", I responded in the manner I did because I thought the statement didn't deserve a serious answer. OK, fellow?

Keith. If you don't support the Party, my apologies to you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:29 PM

Racism is wrong, I agree whole heartedly with that. At the time, I was severly aggravated and in human nature, was looking for a scapegoat.

But there are several problems reaking in this country which simply won't be addressed by the current government, and this will cause a change in our ways.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:27 PM

Josh,

If racism is wrong and you vote for a party that is racist, what should one assune from that?

I this is a thread about people being able to go where they want to or need to, that is different.

Canada has quotas as does almost every country in the world. However, people fleeing from despots, or people who need a safe haven from persecution should be welcomed by every country in the world. I am nor so naive that I don't recognize the facts of demographics and what major population shifts can do to countries. But let me ask this: Would you sman your door in the face of a man who needs to feed his kids or they will starve to death? The whole friggin' world is doing that to the Sudan right now. If they were your children, how would you answer?

RSVP, Josh.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:32 PM

Josh this is so depressing for old guys like us. You see our parents when they weren't much older than you are now had a really shit time of it - keeping our country safe for folks like yourself to live in a country where its all right to disagree with the current government. I mean a really shit time....risking their lives every day, away from their loved ones, seeing their friends butchered in front of their eyes.

And the people they were fighting against were broadly speaking the same ones that you are voting for. there is so much to be proud of in our country.

Next time you are in town take a look at that war memorial. those young guys died so that you could enjoy the freedoms that the BNP are conspiring to take away from our society.

Its not all your fault. I've seen some of the stuff you come up with on the pages of the Daily Mail and right wing papers that are ostensibly respectable. But you know these guys ( the Rothemeres etc) supported Mussolini almost up the war being declared. just because they are a disgrace to our nation ( and they are stinking rich and get away with it) doesn't change the fact that your country's honour was redeemed with the blood of of young men - many of whom had bugger all stake in the wealth of the country.

I lost my Dad this year. he was in the Irish guards fighting in ww2 - had nightmares all his life afterwards about the sound of spandau machine guns. Don't throw his legacy in the gutter by consorting with fascists.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM

Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion?
if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome.

Non UK folks, BNP is an extreemist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue here and will be an election issue. The leader of our main opposition party has accused the government of losing control of our borders.

Keith.