So thats seth lakeman is it

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:16 PM

You may be able to find Shane McGowan, but mostly he can't find you, or anyone or anything (except maybe his glass or spike and works).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM

Geoff Lakeman, Seths father was a journalist for the Daily Mirror.Geoff is a good Duet concertina player ,or he was when I last saw him in 1985.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: dj bass
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:43 PM

Seth's dad was a journalist on the Express. Believe it or not, he was in a folk duo with Alistair Campbell - yes he of No10 Spin fame - when they were both young journos.

At one time you could catch Mum and Dad and the 3 boys. All 3 currently make a living from "folk" which is a blooming hard thing to do.

Seth has a new PR person who, I understand, works him rather harder than he has been hitherto used to. I have a couple of his albums, which I enjoy listening to from time to time, but I am very ambivalent about his contribution to folk. But then, the few people who know me are ambivalent about mine.

dj

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:07 PM

Seth's dad was a journalist on the Express

He worked on the Mirror when I knew first met him in the 90's.

And they had a family ceilidh band as I remember.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Brakn
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

quick google.....

Geoff Lakeman, covered the West Country for 28 years for the Daily Mirror and before that the Daily Telegraph.
Spin doctor, Alastair Campbell, is a close friend.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,bricky
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

So ,working class then.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:22 PM

As in New Labour is that?
G.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:37 PM

Stick to Seth otherwise we will have bloody Lizzie on here...I didn't know his Dad's class affiliations.

Any more than I would ask yours..................

What matters here is music..Politics is below the line....

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,bricky
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:17 PM

Fair point, but it's pertinent here given that one of the arguments around Seth is whether or not he's a gifted musician or a product of some skilful p.r. and media manipulation .
I think he's charismatic and an ok singer . I didn't know the alistair campbell link.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

I sat with Seth in the company of a lot of musicians including fiddle players and when they heard him play they were gobsmacked.

He was 16 at the time. He has taken twelve years to become an overnight success.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: pirandello
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:50 PM

More power to Seth and the breath of fresh air he brings to folk music. Much as I like folk music in most of its incarnations there is a hardcore of fundamentalist folkies (Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear) to whom anything new and different is anathema, frowned upon and dismissed as 'unauthentic'.
Folk music is, by its nature, organic; songs and tunes grow and mutate through interpretation over many years and anything new brought to the table should be applauded and encouraged if it adds to the rich variety of music we enjoy.
You can like it or dislike it according to personal taste but don't dismiss it just because it doesn't fit in with your perception of authenticity.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:49 PM

Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear

Well I haven't seen an Arran sweater at a folk festival, session or to be honest anywhere else in about twenty years. Pewter tankards are everywhere here in Sheffield the home of pewter. No folk singer EVER puts their finger in their ear...........

Are all your stereotypes so out of date, and misinformed?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Effsee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:56 PM

Aran...ARAN... west coast Irish islands...nothing to do with Arran!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: melodeonboy
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:58 PM

I'm with you on this one, Miskin Man, although I've actually heard two songs by him as opposed to your one! I share your sentiments.

Pirandello: have you been to a folk "event" in the last twenty years? I'd be interested to know where your idea of "fundamentalist folkies" comes from (along with the apparent dress code!).

Guest, bricky: I think the answer to your first sentence (embedded question) is "both". Charismatic? I wouldn't know; I've never seen him.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:07 PM

Pirandello:
chck Miskin at Easter
for my personal choice of music before you stereotype me.
Tracy Curtis makes me tingle. Seth made me yawn. But as I said I will listen to something else of his with interest.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM

The only thing I've heard of his was that "White Hare" crap.

What's "fresh air" about it? Warmed-over version of the sort of stuff Joan Armatrading and Cat Stevens were doing 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:42 AM

I think the thing is that Seth (who remember took about twelve years to become an overnight success)has become popular, and at the age of 29 is at last making some money from his music.

I certainly don't begrudge him that and whilst his music is not particularly to my taste, neither is much music to my taste.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Bainbo at work
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:52 AM

Oh for folk's sake. It's no wonder this board can get a reputation for being negative and grumpy - though I have to say, it's mostly us Brits.

Some people enjoy young Lakeman's music. Some of us don't. Get over it - listen to something you do like. He's not doing any harm, he's doing what he feels is right, and he's making people happy.

I know people are only expressing an opinion, but the cumulative effect of reading the whole thread makes us sound like a right bunch of whingers.

And that's my whinge, just to add to the effect!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

Everyone makes their own decisions in life.
I could have made a lot more money if I had chosen a more Commercial direction,Ichose not to, I have NO regrets.
Seth has made a decision to be more commercial,it is possible he may bring a wider audience to go beyond his music as groups such as Fairport and the Spinners did,time will tell.
I dont like his music, but he probably doesnt like mine,im happy with that,personally I think he is inconsequential,But if he gives people pleasure[he is an improvement on Westlife]and brings a new audience to appreciate other folk/blues traditional music,good luck to him.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,North East Folkie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

'a hardcore of fundamentalist folkies (Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear) to whom anything new and different is anathema, frowned upon and dismissed.....'

For those who don't believe these still exist, visit Whitby (UK)during festival time or some of the surrounding folk clubs. Personal tankards dangling from belts using little hangers tailor made for the purpose. However, most of these people are 'getting on' and are the founders of the folk world we enjoy today. Not to my taste but I respect their views and ways - they probably dislike my 'modern' versions but are too polite to say!
They also add greatly to the 'olde worlde' atmosphere of Whitby and is why thousands of tourists visit every day!

Live and let live - we are all FOLKIES!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:37 AM

Live and let live - we are all FOLKIES!!

Well said NEF. That motto should be engraved on Mudcat as a reminder to the Whingeing Willies we often see around here (OK, I'm a grumpy old bugger myself sometimes, I know!)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:46 AM

My speculations as to Seth Lakeman's class were purely because a poster to this thread characterised Seth lakeman as a working class phenomenon, as opposed to the middle-class old school folkies. That caused to wonder if the staement was true in any way. Personally, it is of no concern to me whether he comes from a family of dustbinmen, or his dad's the Duke of Dartmoor.
    The Arran sweater reference phenomenion is interesting. The last reliable spotting of any significance would surely be the Clancys and Robin Hall asnd Jimmy McGregor, back in the 60's.This must be a splendidly long-lived journalistic cliche,perhaps one of the all-time greats: worthy of study in itself. I notice it is used by a poster called Pirandello. What age would you be? Could you tell us if you have been using this phrase since the 60's, or recently picked it up? And if so where?
    An extraordinary feature of this kind of discussion is the number of people(small but notable) who insist that we "ought" to enjoy some kind of new music (in this case, that of Seth Lakeman). Why? It's a matter of taste whether you like it or not. Why "ought" I to like Seth Lakeman? Why "ought" I to like the Arctic Monkeys? Missionary zeal can be quite exhilarating, but it can also be a little disturbing. And this kind of "ought" mentality seems to get confused in some people's heads with whether they classify the music as folk music. Just because someone likes Seth Lakeman's songs, why "ought" they to classify them as folk music. The two things aren't really logically connected. I like the Mikado and Beethoven's 6th Symphony, but that doesn't make me wish to welcome thewm into the fold of folk music. "Good" and "folk" are not synonyms, surely?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:57 AM

At many festivals the beer is served in PLASTIC glasses, I can't think of a better reason for carrying your own tankard than that!
As for the Aran sweater, methinks it's a rare sight indeed, anywhere.
Giok

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:03 AM

Er...Seth sings folk songs....and he sings good folk songs...and he's writing 'folk songs of the future' just as SoH are. Doesn't that make him a er...folk singer?

And...his songs are good. So that makes him a Good Folk Singer.....

AND he's just won Folk Singer Of The Year...so that makes him a BLOODY GOOD FOLK SINGER!


YAY! Seth wins all over again Greg! ;0)


And yes Scrump...it WAS 'Sally Free And Easy'. As with so many other songs and artists, it was Show of Hands who led me to Cyril Tawney... :0) :0) :0)

Great post Pirandello...The Folk Fundamentalists/Terrorists/Dimentors are ALL AROUND me like mosquitos!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......SPLAT!

Yippeeeeeee! There goes another one!   :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:13 AM

My daughter, when she was younger, liked the modern beat combo 'Busted'; appalling, I know. But through Busted she investigated their cited influence 'Green Day'. From 'Green Day' she went on to the 'Ramones' and from the 'Ramones' she's got into more bands than I can keep track of.

My point is that, even if you don't care for Seth's music, perhaps other (younger?) fans may investigate his influences and discover Barry Dransfield or the many other artists who have shaped the Lakeman style. My way into the music was the Dubliners, now I spend far too much on recordings by often obscure artists within (sometimes only tenuously) the 'folk' genre. If Seth is the trojan horse that gets new blood into the folk world, I, for one, would be happy.

If, as North East Folkie states, we are all FOLKIES, we should welcome the success that Seth is having; even if some of you don't like the messenger, surely you can appreciate the message. Just so long as they the new recruits don't grow beards, develop a taste for woollen wear and beans and choose pewter as the material of choice for their drinking vessels (only joking).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:15 AM

Is this the same Lizzie that was not going to say another word?

Except of course to mention Show of Hands on a thread that has nothing to do with them...

:D

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:18 AM

Good points Greg.

One thing I think people misunderstand is the importance of history. We all make our own value judgements on any music - and measure how much we like it. That's purely subjective and based on an entirely personal reaction.

But there is a second element within folk - antiquity.

A lot of people ALSO notice and admire the age of a work - exactly as an admirer of a antique furniture is attracted by the patina of an old piece. Indeed there are many who are actually more intrigued by the provenance of a song or tune than by its quality - just as one might admire some old chair for its age even if it's uncomfortable to sit on.

Some people may not even be very interested in new music, precisely because it can't bring that connection to times past which is the very thing that excites them.

It's a shame that others misunderstand this.

Quite resonably, the fact that the gene-pool of old music we call The Tradition is under threat does sometimes make its champions rather more defensive at times than may be helpful. But as a writer of original and 'trad-style' material, I would never decry anyone for preferring the real thing.

It's unreasonable and reactionary to demand that a lover of folklore should have to admire modern culture.

Yes it's all just music - but some of it also happens to be something else. Which has value too.

Tom

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:37 AM

There's a strong link Dave. Not only in the way both acts are treated by the er...fundamentalists, but also SoH have been incredibly supportive of Seth these past few years. And I was merely responding to something Scrump said about a Cyril Tawney song.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:42 AM

I agree with Sugwash's point above, that if young people are drawn towards folk music by way of Seth Lakeman, that's a good thing and that makes him a good thing for folk music - regardless of whether you like his music.

I was drawn into folk music myself by the likes of Lonnie Donegan and Bob Dylan. I'm sure a lot of the old folkies around in the early 1960s must have frowned upon both these artists as "not proper folk" and "too commercial" or whatever - similar criticisms that are being levelled at SL today.

In my case they led me to investigate other American and British folk artists, attend folk clubs, discover new types of music (to me), etc. etc. and I was hooked. I'm sure many young people will do similar things by listening to SL.

Oops got to b****r off now, back later

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it? I believe it is!
From: GUEST,Liz
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:18 AM

So here's my fivepenneth, I met Seth a few years ago, when helping at a local festival, a quiet and unassuming young man and shy, but he and his pal Benji sat in a sweaty little room in our local high school the day before his performance on the mainstage, (he wasn't a headline just a young and up and coming musician - we always encourage those at MFAB) and with a handful of kids nearly the same age as himself and from start to finish - they wrote a song, yep all the lyrics and set it to a tune, which they played together at the end of the day. I called in a couple of times during the day. I was enthralled. I wonder if one of those kids still has the song tucked away at home somewhere? I couldn't get Seth to do a school workshop this year! But he is playing my mainstage!

Check out Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival website Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival 15th - 17th June

Future folk? I don't care what you call it, it is good quality music from a young man who can knock it out live.

Good luck to him!

Liz

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:36 AM

Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival 15th - 17th June

Blue clicky thing doesn't work on post above, this one should do it, if it doesn't - you know where to find us!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:36 AM

As for the Aran sweater, methinks it's a rare sight indeed, anywhere.

Do we think the Aran sweater is yet another casualty of global warming?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:46 AM

Wouldn't last long in it touring Oz...

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

Cost may be a factor !!
G

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:51 AM

Apologies for my last post. My wife has reminded me I have one in the wardrobe. (Probably won't fit these days, but I might grow back into it!)

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:54 AM

Cost? Wow! Mine's on eBay tomorrow :-)

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,DaveS at work
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:07 AM

Oddly enough when Equation signed their major recording deal some years ago and recived massive media coverage one of the comments (attributed I believe to Mrs Lakeman) that most of the newspapers picked up on was that the group wanted to get away from the folk image of Aran sweaters and real ale,doubtless sandals and fingers in ears were mentioned too, yet here we are all these years later discussing Seth's success and these trite old stereotypes are still trotted out. As regards Seth Lakeman I saw him just under two years ago playing at Off The Tracks festival in Castle Donnington, which actually doubles as a Real Ale Festival, where he played two open air sets in the most atrocious weather conditions, performing almost to an empty courtyard as the audience had to huddle round the periphery to keep out of the storm, yet never once did his performance dip below total professionalism as he gave it his all. That won my admiration and I am pleased for his success.
Not wishing to be pedantic Geordie but you'd have been better off watching Dylan at Newcastle Odeon that night; the City Hall was in 1965 - I was at both.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:17 AM

No-one at all posted anything on this thread about Cyril Tawney until AFTER your postings about SoH Lizzie. You need to sort out your basic facts if you want to weave the tangled web. It's quite easy really - Just look at past postings. They are all there to see.

Anyway. No point arguing. This is a thread about Seth Lakeman. Not about Show of Hands, not about Cyril Tawny and not even, believe it or not about Lizzie Cornish. By far the majority of posters have been very possitive about him. All those old wrinklies who hate him don't really seem to exist or, at most, seem to be in a small minority. Again, just read the thread. ALL of it.

And yes - I have an Aran Sweater - It is not a simple one though. As well as all the cabling etc. It has a Sheep on the front. Sort of embroidered but done it wool (of course) I only wear it when I go to Yorkshire or Wales...

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:18 AM

And I was merely responding to something Scrump said about a Cyril Tawney song.

Lizzie you promised not to say another word. And here you are again joining in with inane comments. I am delighted that you were led to Cyril Tawney by SOH, and they have been helpful to Seth.

No there is no question for you to respond to in this posting.

Go away.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:28 AM

lizzie Cornish,neither you or I know, what will be the folk songs of the future.
Beacause somebody wins folk singer of the year it doesnt necessarily make them a good singer,all it means is that alot of people[if it is done by vote]think so ,popularity does not automatically equate with good,look at Daniel o Donnell,The Pogues,Dave Clark Five,Westlife.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

Yes, I think the general consensus here is that (like his music or not) Seth Lakeman is good for folk music, because he brings in young people who then go on to discover other folk artists, just as Lizzie did with Cyril Tawney, by listening to Show of Hands (I'm glad you discovered Cyril through SOH, Lizzie).

As for Aran sweaters, I have one (I think, unless Mrs Scrump gave it to a charity shop years ago without telling me - it's not unknown for her to do that). I can't see myself ever wearing it these days, as I usually get too hot at gigs, even if it isn't that hot in the room.

Oops, before I get criticised for not keeping to the thread, I'd better bring Seth back into the discussion.

In my opinion, Seth should continue to avoid Aran sweaters on stage, and I would advise him strongly against adopting one. As anyone who has seen him perform live will confirm, his furious and frantic fiddling usually causes him to be dripping with sweat by the end of a gig, so wearing such a garment would be foolhardy in the extreme.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:06 AM

All sweaty and woolly !! Be still my bleating heart.
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

I think Seth could REVOLUTIONISE Arran Sweaters! :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:57 AM

>>>I think Seth could REVOLUTIONISE Arran Sweaters! :0)<<<



I think Seth already has!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:00 AM

Seth could undoubtedly wear a sweater while he molests collies.

Spaw

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

"Yes, I think the general consensus here is that (like his music or not) Seth Lakeman is good for folk music, because he brings in young people who then go on to discover other folk artists ..."

This is what I call the 'Trickle-Down Theory of Folk Music'. Anyone remember the 'Trickle-Down Theory of Economics'? That was bollocks as well!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

Shimrod, if you think my comment is "bollocks" please do me the courtesy of saying why.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

i spose yes, lakemen is good for folk music in the trickle down sense for young ppl to discover other artists, but hes crap for it in the music sense because ppl might think thats how good folk music sounds,when its how s*** music sounds(escuse my french), the sooner the youngies find some other good contemporay folk music like karine polwart or bodega the better.

im king of the grumps

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:37 PM

99

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:37 PM

Change hands...