BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 06:33 PM

Maybe so, but the Neocons would screw a dead seagull to remain in power by getting votes, and they will do that until Americans no longer have the right to vote. Then it won't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:40 PM

But, brucie, you're also describing city government in Chicago or Huey Long's Louisiana. I've heard people say that about any number of politicians on either side. You could find similar thoughts on people trying to stay in power in any ancient Greek or Roman history and quite a bit of their plays and poetry. That's part of my problem - if it's common to politicians of all stripes and all ages, how can you claim it's evidence of Fascism and Fascism alone?

Don, I'm a little embarrassed. Other than the article you quote from the Council of Secular Humanism (and it's endless reproductions), a novel that went out of print some 6 years ago and one speaking engagement last year, I can't find anything that proves Dr. Britt exists. One site said he was at Oxford, but that's not true according to their website. I find lots of evidence that people are trying to find out who he is, but none of them have been successful, even those who've written Free Inquiry asking about him. I'm sure it's just one of those things, the internet's not perfect after all. I'll keep trying.

Do you have any more info than I've been able to find so I can reach him? I'm sure he'll recognize the consulting firm I work for and be interested in talking to me.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:44 PM

Hey, pal, I didn't mention fascism. You did. Lighten up for fuck sake.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:49 PM

Dude, didn't you read the subject of this thread? Sorry if I assumed incorrectly we were still on topic.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:52 PM

Dude my ass. I did not claim it was evidence of fascism. You got so many words in your own mouth that now you gotta put some in mine? Like I said, lighten up.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:59 PM

brucie, I'm sorry, I mis-read your comment in the context of a larger exchange I've been in related to the main topic of this thread, Fascism (look at the subject line), nothing more. Say anything you want about neocons, they're no friends of mine.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 08:12 PM

I'm sorry too. The friggin' Neocons give me a serious pain. I have enjoyed the writing on this thread, and you are a sharp cookie. No question about that. I guess I simply see it a bit differently.

The USA is not a fascist country. I had loaded rifles pointed at me at People's Park in Berkeley in the late 60s. Lots of us did. We didn't get shot. We would have been in a fascist state. Fascists don't care what people think. The USA does. American demonstrations are controlled with tear gas, not nerve gas.

When some religious idiots who choose to receive the word of God from people like Falwell and Swaggert (of the 'send us your money and we will pray for you most sincerely' Church of the True God as interpreted by the select few who run this television scam), but who have no real sense of decency at all, try to climb into bed with an American President who can't get his lines right or his facts straight, I think worrying about a fascist religious state is just a bit premature.

Our problem is the Neocon agenda. The religions and the President are really incidental.

Anyway, I am an ass for my remarks above, and please excuse me Strick. Later.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 08:14 PM

I was at fault and took no offense. Later.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: harvey andrews
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 07:13 AM

We didn't get shot. We would have been in a fascist state. Fascists don't care what people think. The USA does. American demonstrations are controlled with tear gas, not nerve gas.

Kent State?

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 12:18 PM

"Kent State?"

A bunch of frightened, poorly trained civilians, weekend warriors mostly 20 and under with guns, told to watch over a bunch of civilians, mostly 20 and under, who stopped protesting and began throwing rocks. Nothing I've seen says that any civilian authority ordered the shooting to start. The most likely senario (IMHO) is that one of the kids with guns panicked. It can't be jusified, but...

I've been that scared. I'm afraid to think what I might have done if I had been there with a gun or in charge at that age. Heaven forbid any of my sons be put in that position, kind loving people that they are.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 01:24 PM

Some folks get all crazy when they see a person in uniform holding a weapon. That specifically doesn't bother me. We throw terms like fascist around when that isn't what we really mean. I knew when I wrote the post that someone would mention Kent State. In a fascist state, there would have been many more than four dead. Soldiers in the USA do not as a rule get off on shooting civilians. In Berkeley, there was 'concertina' wire, gun emplacements and a few spotter/sniper teams on roof tops. I spoke with a guardsman who was behind the wire, and he assured me the weapons were safed. Good by me. I do not think America is fascist. A little right of center at present, but not fascist. I think maybe I have lots of 'faith' in the goodness of the American people, with all their faults and attitudes. I lived and worked in that country for about five years, and you will have to go a long way to convince me that America is fascist. Now, I don't doubt that someone will bring up Calley and Vietnam. It was a exception, not a rule.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 05:11 PM

Strick, I chose to answer your PM in open forum.

Since I did not log in to Mudcat Saturday afternoon or all day Sunday (busy making music), I'm not sure which "last post" you are referring to, but I have read most of what you have written. I must admit that on your longer posts, I scan them rather than reading your "point-by-point refutations" because, frankly (and I do not mean to be insulting here, but I have to say it), I find those point-by-point items to be made up of selective history designed to support your position rather than to present an authoritative and objective picture. I don't have the time that you seem to have to devote to this, and I feel no obligation to parse your posts as you do mine and try to correct where you seem to have misinterpreted what I said. I don't think it would work anyway. Brevity is the soul of wit, and although I rarely follow that dictum myself, I think it is a goal worth striving for, especially if you have a point that you feel is worth making and wish people to take the time to read it

My point in posting a link to Dr. Britt's "Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism" was informational—to invite people to compare Dr. Britt's list with current events and see if they can detect any parallels. Although he doesn't say so explicitly, I believe that this was Dr. Britt's intention. At least, judging from the number of places I have found the list reprinted, a large number of people have inferred that this is so. You will note that I said "I strongly suggest you read it [the Fourteen Characteristics], observe current events, and judge for yourself." It was not my intent to take you (or anyone else) by the hand, lead you through it, and make these comparisons for you. Trusting in the acute perceptions and intelligence of most Mudcatters, I do not arrogate to myself the assumption that I should do their thinking for them. If others don't think there are parallels, that's their opinion and their privilege .

If you can't see these parallels, I, personally, think it's because you're not looking or you don't want to see them. There are trends that I find pretty disturbing, and apparently many other people do also. But everything I have to say on this subject I have said before, and I have no intention of spending the time and effort to repeat it. At 19 Mar 04 – 08:56 PM, Bill D shows he understands what I was saying when he wrote "Don Firth has made the point that we are not nearly a 'fascist' state yet, but are 'moving in that direction.'" So, as far as I'm concerned, mission accomplished.

As far as the Christian / Fascist connection is concerned, in my opinion, all one need do is listen to Pat Robertson on the 700 Club or any of several other "electric preachers" to hear the powerful lust on the part of these folks to acquire sufficient secular power to enforce their beliefs and morality on the whole country—or the whole world. Harking back to Mussolini's definition of fascism as the merger of state and corporate power, there is nothing there that prevents a particular church or group of churches from also joining in that bundle of sticks surrounding the axe. Here, of course (I feel I have to keep reminding people of this), I am referring, not to Christians in general, but to that substantial group of the "Christian Right" who are often in the forefront of the news and claim to speak for all "True Christians" (lots of rules; no mercy or forgiveness).

When one looks at the backgrounds and the connections of our leaders, one can hardly deny that our government and major corporations are made up of the same people. Cheney's Halliburton connection is well-known, but I leave it to you as a good exercise in research to check into the corporate connections of various members of Bush's Cabinet, and his large group of "advisors." And considering that President Bush, who starts every day at the White House with a prayer breakfast, has said in specific terms that he considers his presidency a "Divine mission," continually salts his speeches and press conferences with religious rhetoric, and wishes to legislate morality with Constitutional amendments; the blatant machinations of people such as House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who has openly stated that he is "on a mission from God to promote a 'Biblical worldview' in American politics;" and the associations of prominent members of the Bush administration, such as Attorney General John Ashcroft, to organizations like the Council for National Policy, which was co-founded by former Moral Majority head Timothy LaHaye, and includes Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Grover Norquist, and Oliver North, that had a lot to do with Ashcroft's efforts to ram through partial-birth abortion legistlation—I think it would be hard to defend the position that we actually have the separation of church and state mandated by the Constitution. One can hardly deny that certain specific religious viewpoints have a strong foothold in the government, and some of it smells a lot like an American Taliban. Not here yet, I grant you, but straining at the leash.

So I will say once again (therefore hardly following the aforementioned dictum about brevity) that I invite people to read Dr. Britt's list and observe for themselves.

I do not see that I have anything to defend.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 05:35 PM

"If you can't see these parallels, I, personally, think it's because you're not looking or you don't want to see them."

And I must repeat that, in my professional and very expensive opinion, the list is structured like a horoscope where anyone who wants to can read anything they want to in the list. It may be gratifying to do so, but not social science as anyone I know represents it.

I know this thing is quoted and linked to all over the internet and sincerely believe you posted it in good faith. That doesn't change the fact I'm beginning to suspect it's a fraud. I haven't completely dispaired of locating "Dr." Britt to discuss his study, but I'm considering dropping a little cash with one of the companies on the internet who locates people. If that fails I'll contact a buddy who used to write for the Washington Post to see if his contacts can locate him. If this is what I think it is, I'm sure Harry (who you can find first try on a Google) will be happy to see that it's debunked in a responsible publication.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 06:40 PM

I will be interested to see what you come up with. I, too, was unable to find anything on Dr. Britt beyond the brief article containing the list of Fourteen Characteristics and various references to it.

However, I disagree with your horoscope analogy. You speak of your "professional and very expensive opinion," however, I have no idea as to what your credentials are. Nevertheless, I don't think you can invalidate Dr. (with or without quotes) Britt's list of characteristics, which I find consistent with the characteristics and behavior of fascist governments that have existed in the past, by attempting to invalidate Dr. Britt himself.

In an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, there is a scene in which a disillusioned Lt. Worf confronts what he has learned is a clone of Kahless, the Klingon messiah, and not the messiah himself. The clone of Kahless (who, until a short time ago, that he was Kahless) says to Worf, "But if the words are true, what does it matter who says them?"

Don

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 07:11 PM

I am a senior manager with a multi-billion dollar consulting firm traded on the NYSE. You see our name TV if you look at the right golfer's hat. I currently consult on data management and warehousing and spent the last several years consulting to state regulatory agencies (big states, think lots of electorial votes) on various aspects of the performance measures imposed on local telephone companies in order to meet certain FCC regulatory requirements. I worked my way through graduate school as a research assistant (great job) in the business and finance area of my university, where I supported faculty research, mostly conducting analysis against public and private databases to identify patterns in the data that could be used to predict behavior, changes in property or asset values, bankruptcies, and the like. I have been published at least in a minor way, since I was more involved in corporate speaking engagements when I was active in the area.

It's fair to say I've done what a bit of what Dr. Britt claims to have done in his article if in different areas; at least the experimental design is the same. I can say with great confidence that while he probably can support what he says he found in his fourteen characteristics of Fascism in the regimes he studied, there's no basis for arguing that finding one or more of those characteristics in a regime constitutes any reliable evidence of Fascism because he has not, could not have validated the predictive qualities of his list. If what he did worked, you couldn't imagine the number of PhDs who'd have gotten rich playing the stock market.

I found a copy of Dr. Britt's book that I've purchased online. While it appears to be a vanity printing, I'm hoping I can get enough information from the dust cover to help locate him.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 07:44 PM

The only thing I have been able to devise that can predict anything is a math thing that predicts squares. Chaos is too much with us. Once ya get to gangs of variables, predictions go out the window.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 02:49 AM

Stand back! This man has swallowed his nose, get me a catchers mitt, I am a qualified sheet metal worker.

Sorry, but whenever anyone starts trotting out why they believe their political opinions are more valid than others, based upon their professional expertise, for some reason or other Gahan Wilson's cartoon always comes to mind. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 02:59 AM

Hell! America has been putting guns in the hands of frightened people, young and old since its inception. ROTFLMAO

Don't shoot until you see the whites of their isotopes!

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 09:54 AM

"Sorry, but whenever anyone starts trotting out why they believe their political opinions are more valid than others, based upon their professional expertise, for some reason or other Gahan Wilson's cartoon always comes to mind. LOL"

Sorry, Metchosin, Don Firth asked about my qualifications when I questioned the quality of the research on a link he posted. I don't believe anything on my CV gives me any better right to a political opinion than anyone else, but I am qualified to speak on the validity of the specific argument Don was making.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 11:38 AM

I think there has been a great deal of thread diversion from the main points, so I'm going to ignore a lot of what has been written and simply state my own perceptions.

People professing Christianity and fascism together have been known occur, principally in Europe of the 30's and early to mid 40's with some recidivists to the present day. People professing Christianity and anti-fascism together have been known to occur in even greater amounts in the same time period.

In the United States, Christians have such incredible diversity that huge political differences occur within major denominations as well as between them.

I think that stirring up a fear of Christian fascists is precisely that, doesn't accomplish much, and adds to the 'fear itself' mentality that FDR raised in his first inauguration speech. If someone chooses to advance their political beliefs in the name of their religion I prefer they are up front and honest about it. When some brain-damaged school board tries to have 'evolution' stricken from the school books I say 'bring 'em on'. But I'd rather live in a society where people are open about their beliefs and passionate in defending them, then one in which causes are advanced by blaring nasty labels such as has happend with 'liberal' these days.

Hoping to shed more light than heat (this time)

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 01:54 PM

Impressive credentials indeed, Strick, but I don't see anything there that makes you an expert on political science or an authority on what is or what is not fascism. I do not consider myself an expert on the subject either, but when it comes to knowing how to dig up information, I did spend a portion of my working life as the news director of a network affiliated radio station. I had to stay on top of the national news, and I was directly responsible for the veracity of the local news. I got pretty good at research, and at distinguishing the real news from the on-going tsunami of BS that some folks wanted to get aired.

But all of this is beside the point. There is considerably more being discussed here than whether or not Dr. Brill actually exists, or if the Fourteen Characteristics are an accurate reflection of the real world. I refer you to the wisdom of Kahless, the clone of the Klingon messiah, which I quoted above. I consider debating this issue and exercise in the picking of nits.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 02:10 PM

Fair enough, Don. Based on the wisdom of Star Trek, faulty pseudo-science and an interpretation of human events that says more about you than the world (IMHO), you believe the US is moving toward Fascism. Those are some pretty damn big nits. While acknowledging that the danger could be present and it's good to be ever vigilent, I don't.

Oh, BTW, Brill exists, someone paid to get that novel printed. I just don't know he's a "Dr" or an expert on social science. As I've said, I never pretended to be a social scientist or political expert myself, just someone who can recognize bad "science" when he sees it.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:39 PM

Cheap shot, Strick. My reference to Star Trek is hardly an indication of where I get my view of the world, it was a way of couching a true statement in a more-or-less humorous context. We've brought up the matter of the argumentum ad hominem a number of times in Mudcat discussions. My reference to the Kahless comment was a way of saying what the argumentum says without lapsing into Latin. Trashing Dr. Brill doesn't invalidate the Fourteen Characteristics. If the humor was lost on you, perhaps I should stick to being a bit more stiff-lipped. And perhaps you missed it, but I don't think we were talking about science, pseudo or otherwise.

And once again you misinterpret what I say. The nit I was talking about was getting bogged down in a discussion of the validity of Dr. Britt and his Fourteen Characteristics. Not whether or not the US is moving toward fascism. Obviously we disagree on a number of things.

But don't be indiscreet enough to try to characterize me as a doofus. I think Mudcatters know me better than that, and it can only undercut your own credibility.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:48 PM

You guys gotta pull your shit together. William Shatner was on Star Trek. He is a legend. Just ask Little Hawk or Amos. They idolize him. Me too. So does Ellenpoly. You are beginning to tread on v e r y thin ice.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:53 PM

Don, I have been a bit tongue-in-cheek in part of this myself, but honestly, I thought you were serious when you quoted STNG twice. If not, I'm sorry.

I haven't trashed Britt, I just want to talk to the guy and I've grown suspicious as the result of my search for him. Part of that is due to the misrepresentation of these fourteen points and the implication that they can (however much they shouldn't) be used to say something about the state of politics in the US. They may even be marvelous analysis by a legitimate political scientist, they just don't do what I think most people who quote them think they do.

Their only relation to all of this is that I understood you used them to support your opinion. It's easy to see they don't add credible support, but you're more than welcome you opinion regardless, right?

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:57 PM

BRucie:

Actually as far as Shatner goes, I am steadfastly opposed, as I believe him to be a do-nothing actor with the grace of wet cowflop on an October morning.

A

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:22 PM

Yes, but Bill's recording of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds!!???

Don Firth
Patrick Stewart ROCKS!!

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:31 PM

See, I told you Amos likes him!

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:43 PM

"The USA is not a fascist country. I had loaded rifles pointed at me at People's Park in Berkeley in the late 60s. Lots of us did. We didn't get shot. We would have been in a fascist state. Fascists don't care what people think. The USA does. American demonstrations are controlled with tear gas, not nerve gas."

Brucie knows of what he speaks.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:48 PM

Jaysus! Mistakes of one's youth do come back to haunt a guy.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:59 PM

"Jaysus! Mistakes of one's youth do come back to haunt a guy."

Come on, brucie, that kind of thing's a badge of honor around here. Who didn't protest something that long ago. The only negative I can see is that you took a pretty classy looking guitar into harm's way. :D

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:03 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:54 AM

IMHO - and mine alone - this is much ado about nothing. It appears to me that the good Dr. must first be found to exist, second to find he is an "expert" of some sort, and third to figure out his methodology for his summation.

Heck - I've a Master's degree and most likely wouldn't know what he did - but then again - I think -

And a wary eye is part of the process - it's what isn't allowed in socialist/facist regimes.

Meanwhile - back to one very good discussion -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST,lookin' in
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 12:19 PM

There's an old poster delineating the difference between capitalism, socialism, and fascism based on how a farmer raises or owns his cows.

Goes something like:

You are a farmer with two cows.

FEUDALISM: The lord takes some of the milk.

SOCIALISM: The government collects the milk and divides it among the people.

COMMUNISM: The government takes the cows and sells you spoiled milk.

DICTATORSHIP: The leader takes the cows and keeps the milk.

FASCISM: The government shoots the cows and drafts you.

CAPITOLISM: You sell one of the cows and buy a bull.

Add Your own 'Two Cows' Definition


Finally: NEVER demean the philosophy of Star Trek. You'll be Vulcanized!

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 07:57 PM

. . . and as a glass dropped from a fair heighth to a concrete floor, you'll be Shatnered.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 08:51 PM

"...you'll be Shatnered."

I always thought THAT...was when you OVER ACTED...in a STILTED, WAY using strange rhythms...and ACCENTS, SPOCK!

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:36 PM

Hey brucie you look like Desi Arnaz Jr.

Desi Jr.

(Don't feel bad... first time I saw LH's picture, I said he looked like Roddy MacDowell ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:59 PM

More on the Early Bruce -- hey, man -- playing opposite Farina and Sky is pretty spiffy!

A

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:20 PM

Swerving just slightly back onto topic (!), I found the following website that shows what Americans are up against in terms of Christian fascism. Be warned that everything on this site is real, even that which seems too exaggerated to be possible. It made me shudder.

The far-out right.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:28 PM

PDC:

My gawd, what a mess o' authoritarian bigwigs!! DANG!! It's enough to make you think those guys who wrote the constitution were just kidding!!! They aure have a clean bead on Truth, Wisdom and Superiority, huh? Ya gotta wonder how they got that way!

A

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:41 PM

I don't know how they got that way, Amos -- I can't even hazard a guess. I only know I don't want them in my way, and I don't want to be in theirs. Forcing your views on another is just plain evil, IMO, and when the views are as weird as the ones on that link, well to repeat myself, I shuddered.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 01:21 AM

Well, I wish it were that simple. They are the kind of evil that can -- in the worst of times -- synchronize their efforts and forces and end up elevating some White Knight to power who will then try and jam their mad remedies down the public throat.

A

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 01:42 AM

People like that are fairly common. Except for the obviously anti-Semitic ones. Most of the hardcore Christians I know believe that Jews are "God's chosen people" and since, in their belief, the Christian religion was an outgrowth of the Jewish religion, they (the Christians) regard themselves as "God's chosen" by extension. I have a few of them in my family, and we don't come originally from that sort of religious mindset. Of the ones who are that way, they became that way well into their adulthood. They consider themselves "born again evangelical Christians" I don't know about Dr. Laura though. She's Jewish. Are there evangelistic Jews?

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST,cat
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 01:52 AM

I like brucies..

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Strick
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM

There's some real weirdos in the world, pdc, but I'd be more impressed (distressed?) if I hadn't seen some of what where essentially the same quotes coming right back at 'em on that secular humanist site Don posted.

All this does is confirm there's a cultural war in progress and both sides are taking a hard line.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 10:20 AM

"Everyone is in favour of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage." -- Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 10:53 AM

There's plenty of free speech; but some of that free speech makes a lot more sense than other parts. In this case, the free speech being quoted is bigoted, biased, authoritarian, inherently illogical, fanatical, non-Christian, dictatorial and against the grain of the best inclusive principles of human brotherhood once associated with CHristianity.

Free, but of negative worth.


A

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for the link, pdc! There you have it, folks! In their own words!

Isn't that Ann Coulter a sweetie, though?
The reincarnation of Lucrezia Borgia!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 10:24 PM

Unfortunately, only some of them, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: GB and the Rise of Christian Fascism..
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:01 PM

However,

This filth has been around for decades. The question has to be one of how much influence can they collectively exert on the Exec and the Congress. Aye, there's the rub. Anyone know?