BS: Killed for being black? Florida today

Subject: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:33 PM

This is an unashamed cut and paste from PZ Myers' excellent blog, Pharyngula. I don't know if it's true; in fact I really hope it's not. But I'd like comments from American catters, especially those of the law/n/order tendency.

Trayvon Martin went to a convenience store in his family's neighborhood to buy some candy. He was 17. He was unarmed. He was black.

George Zimmerman, a self-appointed "neighborhood watch leader", called the police to report a "suspicious person"; he was told not to confront him, but somehow in the next few minutes Zimmerman got out there and shot and murdered Trayvon Martin. The puffed-up coward Zimmerman grabbed his gun, confronted a teenager carrying nothing but a bag of Skittles, and murdered him. There is no possible excuse, no way that there could be some exculpatory fact to justify his actions: Zimmerman was carrying a loaded gun and on a mission of self-inflated importance to defend his neighborhood (which was also Martin's neighborhood) from suspicious young black men.

What do you think happened next, when the police arrived on the scene and found Zimmerman with a smoking gun, who immediately admitted to gunning Trayvon Martin down?

Nothing.

Zimmerman is still free. It's been two weeks; no action is being taken. The Florida district attorney is even dragging his heels about deciding to investigate the murder, and claiming that Zimmerman was a pillar of the community.

Sign the petition. Tell racist goddamned Florida they can't just ignore a vigilante who murders young black people.

It gets worse. Recordings of 911 calls on the night of the murder are available: Martin was screaming for help and begging for his life when Zimmerman gunned him down. And apparently what sent Zimmerman on his macho crusade to stop a suspicious suspect was that Martin was running away.

Why hasn't he been arrested?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:37 PM

The story is basically true... there was one stupid vigilante who made a BIG mistake, and one sheriff who didn't want to arrest a 'good guy' who claimed 'self-defense'......

I rather expect other forces will change the situation...

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:43 PM

Welcome to Jim Crow's America...

Been going on since 1619...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:44 PM

All together now: "Guns don't kill people...."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:50 PM

Nuts kill people.

So, keep the guns away from the nuts. That's YOUR job. But don't tell me I can't defend myself with a weapon of any kind. That is just nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 06:00 PM

"If all you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything you see as a nail."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 06:23 PM

For nuts I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:09 PM

Very tragic.

What Bill D said.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:15 PM

"Nuts" is not a simple, clear definition. It is a continuum, with "totally barmy" at one end and "slightly odd" at another. Trouble is, they will sell guns to anyone who has not been convicted of being "totally barmy" or being a felon..........and at many gun shows, they don't even check!

Evidently, this vigilante was just on the "slightly odd" end, and had not been in any 'official' trouble... he just had an attitude towards 'black boys wandering around after dark'.

NOW he will be considered further down the continuum of 'nutness'....which does little for the family of the dead kid.

Do you know anyone who owns ...or wishes to own... guns, who would call themselves a 'dangerous nut'?

The standard answer in these cases is: "I felt threatened!" or "He had something in his hand that looked like a gun, and he made a motion!"....and obviously, young black boys can't be trusted...even when all they have is a bag of Skittles!

This semi-nut was TOLD by the police dispatcher NOT to follow or confront the kid! But he HAD a gun, and he, by golly, was gonna defend the neighborhood and himself.... he had programmed himself to find trouble!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:30 PM

This may not seem related to many, but I tend to not understand the world in simple terms. My 18 year old son who is a senior in high school is off on a 4 day exertion to Boston, MA for a Parkour Jam. It is 12 hour drive from Durham, NC. He is taking his car and traveling with two college students from Duke, both African-American kids from the Northeast. Parents have to let go, but I confess to some anxiety about this first, long trip when the car can break down or the kids get lost, etc. I am also aware of some measure of increased anxiety that the kids might face increased risk of "targeting" if they drive too fast or have a breakdown, or otherwise need help or call attention to themselves, simply because two of them are African-American. Now mind you, I live in the South. I don't happen to think there is any more racism in the South than there is in the North, but I do think racism in the North or in urban areas is more unconscious, and therefore possibly more dangerous and unpredictable.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:37 PM

I am gonna leave now. This story is tragic and to turn it into a debate about gun ownership rather than what it should be about is futile and somewhat offensive to the OP, IMO. gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:46 PM

Janie... the problem is with those who DO see the world in simple terms and who can't wrap their little minds around the difference between 'reasonable care' and **profiling**.... and those who are profiled unfairly often get tired of being stopped and questioned- they respond- which makes the 'nuts with guns' even more sure hey have reason to 'suspect' something. And so it goes... round & round.

I personally think there IS more actual racism in the south...but that may just be a matter of opinion..or semantics.

The awkward thing about profiling..(which is no doubt what the vigilante did)... is that it has a certain value at times. The problem is with those who see only 'either/or' cases and can't use judgment.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:50 PM

Gnu, I think an arguement can be made that this terrible event is as much about gun ownership as it is about racism.

I think this is about the danger of personally unexamined assumptions that people make every day. The danger of unconscious living.

All I know is what I read in the news reports. Now, let me acknowledge that as a psychotherapist I tend not to view the choices people make about their behaviors and choices in simple terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 02:46 AM

We here in UK remember the iniquitous Emmett Till case of 1955, and others of the same sort from way back then. We had hoped that such incidents were in the past; but alas it seems not so.

Profound sympathies.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:46 AM

http://www.razorcake.org/columns/the-fbi-report-on-the-murder-of-emmett-till-update-2007?gclid=CJXZn6qH8K4CFSEntAodZQlEKQ

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:47 AM

PS, I don't remember it, but I was 7 when it happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 05:20 AM

I'm not offended gnu- I really want to know people's thought processes in a society that is so like my own, yet in some ways so different. We certainly have racism in the UK, and would-be vigilantes too (if you follow UK stuff, you might have heard of the English Defence League). But most people don't have guns. There have been some high profile cases over the years- a farmer shot and killed a burglar, and was jailed for murder, more recently a shopkeeper stabbed a robber and was not proceeded against. But this latter was after investigation, during which he was held in custody. In another similar case a burglar was stabbed with a breadknife after a gang broke into an occupied house. Similarly, the householder was arrested while investigations took place.

The shock of the Florida case to me is that the sole grounds for suspicion seems to have been that the young man was black.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:44 AM

Petition organised by Trayvon's parents is also on here, along with other information..Over 2,500 people on the page so far, help to spread it out much further....

'Justice for Trayvon Martin' - Facebook page

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 11:19 AM

On the face of it it seems quite a bizarre and extreme case (I don't think the killer was a "little odd" but a paranoid bigot with a gun and a vastly inflated sense of his personal importance) - until you hear of similar "brush it under the carpet" decisions from within the same police dept. The terrible action of one gun nut is one thing, while the (non) actions of the police dept. in response to that incident and others like it are another, which potentially require further investigation into how they handle race related crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 02:14 PM

Some things ain't changed in sixty years. Old saw from back then: Two men of colour were struck by a town mayor (who was White) while he was out for a drive. One fellow crashed through the windshield and the other flew 65' onto the grassy side of the road. When the police arrived, they arrested one for breaking and entering and the other for leaving the scene of an accident.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 02:28 PM

I heard that local law said they did not have enough evidence due to the lack of evidence. But it is pretty clear that the incident did not happen on Zimmerman's property, so the "self defense" claim is pretty bogus.

My guess is that there are no criminal charges but that someone sues on behalf of the family and gets a large judgement for wrongful death. But since Zimmerman is only 28 and aspires to be a cop, there won't be much money to go after.

In an ideal and just society Zummerman in future would be banned from carrying assembled and loaded fire arms beyond his own property. I don't think that will happen in south Florida.


Bill,

In my experience, there is certainly not more racism in the South than the North. I travel all over the South. It is just not that apparent. In the North, in Ohio, when I lived there, and in the Northeast when I have visited. I saw many more examples of racism.

Where you live, which is more South than North, MD and VA were both slave states at the time of the civil war, I have also seen few signs of racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lizzie
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:22 PM

>>>"In an ideal and just society Zummerman in future would be banned from carrying assembled and loaded fire arms beyond his own property. I don't think that will happen in south Florida."<<<

Huh?????

In my kind of 'ideal society' he'd be banged up for the next 25 years for murder and racism and banned from EVER carrying ANY weapon again, being told that if he did so he'd be banged up for the next 25 years to follow...

Or...better still, I'd just hand him over to this young lad's parents and let them deal out the justice!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:29 PM

In England, our Neighbourhood Watch guys and gals carry pens, badges, window stickers and smiles...

WTF does the USA not ban guns???

I find it deeply disturbing that folks wander round with guns..it's madness...total madness.

WHY would a neighbourhood watch person be allowed to carry a gun?

Yeesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:56 PM

I find the alleged absence of evidence hard to credit - where did the vigilante's gun go and the bullets in the youth?

The USA needs severely to take stock of who uses guns to kill more people? Criminals (and vigilantes and "people who are only defending themselves" (from a boy running away down a public road) or those genuinely defending themselves on their own property or from an advancing treat (oh, and genuine public servant law officers)?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 07:14 PM

1. A neighborhood watch program here in the "Wild West" consists of volunteers driving around in marked ex-police cars (and they are OLD!), checking your house when you're out of town.

2. The neighbors also keep an eye on each other -- carrying cell phones. Anyone found with a firearm is kicked off the patrol -- these aren't cops. A problem is called in and a regular officer dispatched.

3. It is strongly suggested that Watchers use a camera (cell phone or otherwise) to document an incident. This type of "shooting" is fully justified.

4. This a very ethnically diverse community, containing folks of Greek, Irish, African, Polynesian, Japanese, Thai, Chinese, German, Hispanic, English, Maori, and other descents. They are judged not on their ethnicity but on their abilities -- and yes, there are far more than a few inter-racial couples here. No, it's not perfect but it's a helluva lot better than I've seen in London, Paris, Bordeaux, DC, LA, Boston, Chicago, or Dublin (to name a few).

But then, like I say, this is The Wild West (we have rodeos, Indians, and everything). The land where Nate Love discovered bulldogging and one-third of the Top Hands were Black or Indian, not White. The country where nearly every town, from Dodge City to Denver, banned the carrying of firearms.

Ah, well.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:28 AM

I was expecting someone to have made the connection between Zimmmerman , and Zantsinger earlier in the thread ! Doi we have another erstwhile Bob Dylan to write the song ? The Lonesome Death of Trayvon Martin ?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:41 AM

With enough pressure, the Justice dept. will step in.

Why was this nut case allowed to be on the street with a weapon anyway? His history should help put him away.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:52 AM

Sounds like something not so far from home in terms of aftermath.


Lawrence case police corruption

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:02 AM

This happens in every single country in the world. The difference between this and Rwanda, Germany, Kosovo, Ireland, Soviet Union, etc. is one of scale only.

A rabbi and three children were gunned down in Toulouse today by a drive-by shooting from a motorcycle. It was not the first such.

I learned long ago that inside we're all red.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:16 AM

One guy had a gun...

The other didn't and was on his way to visit a neighbor of the first guy..

Guess who is dead???

But this entire episode is a sad commentary on a society obsessed with fear, hate and mis-understanding... And guess who is spending billion$$$ to keep it that way... There is no accident here... This will happen over and over until until we get back to a society that actually goes beyond "talking the talk" about diversity and appreciating each others cultural differences and walks away from the tools being used on us everyday by the masters of division...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: saulgoldie
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:18 AM

Yes, Rap, "We All Bleed Red" (recent song on the country station)

It is tragic, of course that this happened. But I think this will focus the country's attention on the not-so-subtle racism that is behind so much of the Republican campaign and law-making activity of the day, just as the Limbaugh/slut thing has focused attention on the Repub "war on women."

I think their true colors are showing for everyone to see and for them to be very embarrassed about. This cannot anymore be covered with code words. It is there plain to see. Given their recent rigidity, I doubt if they will walk any of it back, either. Good for them.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:21 AM

WHY was the 17 year old "kid" in a gated community in the first place. It's gated for a reason.

George called the police and reported the intruder, clearly something happened after that causing him to unholster his weapon.

Looks like George was defending himself or the area he looks after. No crime as far as I can see, clearly the law agrees with this as George hasn't been charged with anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:57 AM

This page at the Huffington post has recordings of 911 calls.

I didn't listen to all of them. The third one down was quite enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 12:22 PM

They have to charge the guy--he committed homicide. It doesn't matter what the kid did, assuming he did anything at all, you CANNOT shoot an unarmed person and claim self-defense. By law, that is a homicide and you WILL be charged.

Well, that's how it is up here in the North. Down South. where I thankfully no longer live, you can kill anybody you want as long as you're a good ol' boy and anyone who says I'm full of shit is full of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 01:39 PM

I don't think we can blame the location.

People with power can get away with crimes that those without are punished for. Whether the power is racial, political, wealth or something else, it give them license they SHOULD NOT HAVE.

There are witnesses, and there will be forensic evidence. Zimmerman should be arrested and prosecuted. I'm just hoping the delay involves lining up ducks... hoping.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:01 PM

It that same state that a guy shot a Japanese exchange student for knocking on his door to ask directions a few years ago ... Insanity is running faster than Niagara Falls everywhere anymore. Shit if were not a gun the guy would have run him over with a car .. Nuts are nuts and useless police officers that do nothing are just that, useless. Maybe the Feds will step in, they have before

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:11 PM

I had a wonderful student when I was a professor, He was a great kid with a great family. In fact he still calls me his other dad on father's day. Black student. One year he went to Florida on spring break. An eighty something year old woman who can't see, can't hear had a ton of traffic violations ran a red light and he T Boned her and totaled his car. Guess who the police arrested ... yup not the 80 year old local. Thank God no one was hurt but even the witnesses said she never stopped for the red light and he still got fined for hitting her car. Nothing f'in changes does it

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:35 PM

Lizzie asked yesterday: "WTF does the USA not ban guns???"

Umm... because there are several hundred million guns already out there? And because many paranoid owners have stashed them away, ready to start a civil war if anyone tries to ban them?

They rationalize that they NEED guns in case their 'rights' are violated. In the meantime, the guns get used-- there are FAR too many guns that are FAR too easy to get.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 03:16 PM

WHY was the 17 year old "kid" in a gated community in the first place. It's gated for a reason.

Damn Right! Its gated to keep them goddam ni**ers out!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 03:18 PM

P.S. : I'm so farkin proud to see how far we've come as a country since 1963 & Hattie Carroll that I could just shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 03:19 PM

So what you are telling us, Bill D, is that your government can't govern ~~ or is too scared to try?

Have I got that right?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 03:45 PM

There were no shootings here in the last month, in a town where it is estimated that, on average, there are four firearms per household...regardless of race. Obviously we are below average and will have to start shooting to catch up.

"Homicide" is the killing of someone. It is NOT the same as manslaughter or murder. If you commit homicide you should be taken into custody and the matter thoroughly investigated. Then, if appropriate, charges should be brought. It doesn't matter if you use your bare hands, a knife, a firearm, a grenade, a landmine, a nuclear weapon -- you killed someone and thereby committed homicide. It is not for me or you to decide if the killing was "justifiable" -- hopefully that's for the courts to decide.

Based on what I know about it I see no reason for the killing in this case. I would also ask if deadly force was necessary -- why wasn't the kid simply asked what was going on?

Mind you, I very much dislike "gated communities" -- to my mind their for the paranoid and/or those who feel that they shouldn't have to associate with the riff-raff commoners. They have a place as an independent living facility for elderly folks (my MIL lives in one with about [literally] 3,000 others), but for most of us -- nah. They will only slow down first responders and do create a sense that "Hey, they must have money!" in the minds of the bad guy, which makes them more tempting targets.

But I'm outa here, for I don't see this thread going anywhere useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 04:37 PM

This 17 year old, made an illegal entry into a gated community. Clearly there was no good intent in his head.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:03 PM

"This 17 year old, made an illegal entry into a gated community. Clearly there was no good intent in his head."

He lived in the "gated community" asshole. He was on his way home from a seven-eleven.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:09 PM

Looks like George was defending himself or the area he looks after. No crime as far as I can see, clearly the law agrees with this as George hasn't been charged with anything.

Clearly you haven't read the account, "Bluesman." A 17-year-old boy with a bag of Skittles (candy) is shot by a super-vigilant self-appointed security patrol who chased him down after the boy fled the scary white guy with the gun. Too many calls to 911 gave an account of the boy being pursued and attacked. Bernhard Goetz was another self-appointed vigilante, and even thought it is clear that the four young men he shot were trying to mug him, he was breaking the law by carrying the gun and shooting them. There is no indication that this boy was doing anything but travelling along a city sidewalk. And clearly the law is accustomed to giving white law-breakers a pass. If I were you, I wouldn't place any bets on this guy getting away without an indictment.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: pdq
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:31 PM

...from BlackPlanet:

"Trayvon Martin's life ended last month during the NBA All-Star Weekend. His brisk walk to a convenience store to buy candy for his 13-year-old brother turned into a confrontation with the armed captain. Martin, who lived in Miami, was visiting his father and step-mother in the gated Retreat town homes at Twin Lakes in Sanford, some 20 miles north of Orlando."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:38 PM

According to at least one report I looked at, he and his parents were visiting, not resident, in the gated community. At any rate, he was returning from a convenience store to the house where his parents were.

If you're going to debate about how legislation plays in this case you could go with the guns-no guns debate, but a more subtle (and appropriate in the U.S. context) framing might be to look at it in terms of self-defense laws.

The tragedy that this event (and Bluesman's statements!) exemplifies is that most parents of young black men in this country live with the fear of their sons falling under suspicion simply for being young and black.

Also, as James Fallows says, "... this case is obviously about race, and is important on those grounds. Race relations are after all the original and ongoing tension in U.S. history. But it is also about self-government, rule of law, equality before the law, accountability of power, and every other value that we contend is integral to the American ideal ... ."

Here's more info --

NY Times news report: Justice Department investigation is sought in Florida teenager's shooting death

Charles Blow in the NY Times: The curious case of Trayvon Martin


Ta-Nehisi Coates of the Atlantic is following the story closely and has included links to the above as well as other reports.

His posts thus far (in chronological order from oldest to newest):

Forida's self-defense laws and the killing of Trayvon Martin

Stand-your-ground and Trayvon Martin

More on the killing of Trayvon Martin

Trayvon Martin cont.

Florida's ubiquitous castle

The town where Trayvon Martin was killed

The killing of Trayvon Martin - 911 tapes released

On the police investigating the killing of Trayvon Martin

Sanford's police chief is the real victim of racism

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:13 PM

"...your government can't govern ~~ or is too scared to try?"

Now, Michael...YOU are clever enough to intuit the answer to that! Does "tilting at windmills" or King Canute sweeping back the waves explain it?

For the 1st 200 years, this was a frontier society with them impudent Injuns and wild animals...and the occasional British regiment... to cope with. EVERYONE had a gun....and in Appalachia and in the western mountains, hunting was common for many years after the country was 'pacified'. And then there was this awkward bit in the 2nd Amendment that 'seems' to allow anyone to "keep & bear arms".

So... with that kind of history, how would YOU go about banning...or even severely restricting... guns- especially with the NRA buying lobbyists & legislators? Do you think ANY decent president could be elected if he came out against gun ownership?

If *I* had a magic button, every weapon in private hands would suddenly be 'disabled' and would require individual actions by authority to re-enable any that seemed relevant.....but I think magic buttons are still in Beta mode.

There will have to be some slow, careful steps to limit gun ownership in any meaningful ways...much like we are dealing with tobacco. In the meantime, idiots like this vigilante will keep doing what they are doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:29 PM

"17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by a Neighborhood Watch captain inside his own gated Orlando, Florida community where he was living with his father, stepmother and little brother."

Global Grind

From the same site:

"Trayvon was shot and killed by George Zimmerman as he was walking through a gated neighborhood while visiting family in Sanford, FL, which is about 20 miles north of Orlando."

So there appears to be some confusion as to whether he was living there or just visiting. In any case he should not have been murdered for walking down the street and guest Bluesman is still an asshole because he is assuming that he was doing something illegal and deserved to be killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:35 PM

MOST of this gated community is white... the few minorities are the exception, so a young black kid gets 'profiled' as 'suspicious'....even if he was only walking.