BS: Killed for being black? Florida today

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:07 PM

Black friend defendsshooter

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:21 PM

"Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic," --
.,,.

Eh? What sort of 'Hispanic' name is Zimmerman?

I mean, take the best-known owner of that name:
'Bob Dylan was born "Robert Allen Zimmerman" (Hebrew name שבתאי זיסאל בן אברה [Shabtai Zisel ben Avraham])' sez wikipedia.

Puzzled -

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:59 PM

News reports state his father is whlte *(presumably American and causasian) and his mother is hispanic, from Venezuela.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 01:48 AM

An interesting discussion on the how racism works:

Where race matters in the Trayvon Martin case, and where it doesn't

I think some of this is wrapped up in a very simplistic understanding of racism. We still, too often, act like racism is a switch -- either you're Archie Bunker or David Duke and acting as a clear cut white supremacist, or you're not.

But that's not how I think it works. Very often, people who would never consider themselves racist in other settings have very negative views of minorities in certain circumstances -- say, if they live in a high-crime neighborhood where many offenses are committed by black or brown people.

Zimmerman's father has released a statement saying his son speaks Spanish and has partially Hispanic heritage (his mother is Hispanic), perhaps to suggest that he isn't prejudiced against racial minorities because he's a minority, too. They may also be trying to make any federal civil rights prosecution tougher by pushing back against the notion that he was a white guy zeroing in on a young black male for little reason.

But even if that were true -- Tampa Bay Times writer Michael Kruse reports that Zimmerman self identifies as Hispanic on his driver's license and voter registration -- that doesn't mean he couldn't have also been someone who singled out black people for special, pejorative attention while watching over the neighborhood.

Add in a police department with longstanding frictions among the black community, and you have a story which sounds sadly familiar to people who know Florida and race issues. The state has a sad legacy of law enforcement which doesn't always treat people of color with the respect they deserve; if anything comes of this awful tragedy, it should be a close look at how Sanford police handled the investigation and their unwillingness to release material such as audio of the 911 calls.

More at the top link from Eric Deggans, Tampa Bay Times media critic; the above quote from his March 21 column here. (Sorry, I can't see how to link to the specific date.)

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:15 AM

Why are so many of you rushing to judgment in the George Zimmerman case?
Did you investigate the crime? No. You probably saw it on TV or the internet and automatically thought "Oh he shot a black guy so it must make the guy a murderer.

If this was a white thug or drug dealer instead of a black one, there wouldn't be a word from one of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:24 AM

1. There is no evidence or even assertion (AFAIK) that Martin was a thug or drug dealer.
2. If he had been Caucasian it would have made the killing unlikely to be the result of racism.

Do try to keep up.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:31 AM

Richard, you are guessing again, please understand you are not acting for the defence in this case, you are reading weepy stories and lies about this case from the resident hysterical liberal drama queens here and on the net.

George is a free man, now that is fact. Agreed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:17 AM

"you are reading weepy stories and lies about this case "

OK Bluesman - where are YOU finding "The Truth" that we haven't seen yet?

And I suspect Zimmerman will be in custody in about a week. A jury needs to decide this case. Not englishman on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:54 AM

Wesley, the fact is, the law has not charged the man, in simple terms, no charge, no crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:02 AM

No charge doesn't mean no crime.

As I recall Hitler was never charged with a crime either. Not that I would compare the two of course.

But for the sake of trolling no charge = no crime. And in America you are innocent until proven guilty. By a jury. So right now Zimmerman is innocent. I embrace that concept. But - Zimmerman will get his day in court. Count on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:50 AM

no charge, no crime

That's a joke, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:58 AM

Bluesman, you're tickled pink that this white man is free, but the preponderance of evidence is against him. Sounder minds than those of the local cops and administrators are now looking at the case. The wheels of justice sometimes move slowly, but they are moving. Zimmerman's defacto freedom now doesn't presume defacto innocence.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 11:54 AM

Desert Dancer, Thanks for all the great links you've been providing throughout this thread. I followed your excellent link (just above), and found another bit that I think is SO "right-on-the-money":
"These conversations are difficult, because there is a lot of intensity and emotion involved here. I often find myself having to explain relatively simple things to people in the comments section because they don't really want to have an honest conversation, they want to delegitimize the claim of racism as much as possible." [BF mine.]

This strikes me as a "great truth". We see it happening here on not just this, but many Mudcat thread(s) all the time -- and on many other subjects -- and in many other places as well, of course. All of us (with a few very rare exceptions) tend to "take in"/remember/misremember the details/"facts" that support our mindset(s) -- and to not notice/misunderstand/forget those that don't. Seems to be human nature, unfortunately...

I think the best we can do is try to be aware of our biases and try to factor them in when we are passing judgement on others (and ourselves), but this is not easy for anyone -- and for some, nearly (if not completely) impossible.

I think if I had the misfortune to be "King of the World", I would order all schools to teach this to their students; maybe have something they'd recite every day -- instead of prayers or the pledge of allegiance...

Anyway, to continue; here's the rest of the paragraph I quoted above, which (IMHO) is also extremely perceptive:
"Also too, we just don't have a great vocabulary. Everyone uses the word "racism" right away. But people can act in prejudice without being bigots." [again, BF mine.]

Finally, just wanted to point out that anyone who followed DD's various links earlier in this thread (like this one: NY Times news report: Justice Department investigation is sought in Florida teen) and saw a photo of Mr Zimmerman (scroll down a bit) would not be all that surprised to hear that Mr Z is Hispanic.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:01 PM

Yes, YY, I think that second quote is a good one for getting at the humanity of prejudice -- the act of "pre-judging" which we all do to one degree or another, and in various ways in various circumstances. George Zimmerman can have good friends who are black and still respond automatically with a different judgement to an unknown black person in circumstances he's trained himself to suspect.

Honestly, for me I have less of a problem (not none!) with Zimmerman as an individual in this case than (1) the police department (non)response, and (2) our laws that allowed him to be out there untrained or monitored but with a loaded gun, seeing himself as an adjunct in law enforcement.

To focus strictly on Zimmerman and assume he's a bigot limits the view of the scope and complexity of the problems here, and is a mirror to those whose view is that "of course Trayvon Martin was a thug".

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:35 PM

I'd just like to throw in a comment. The bounty on Zimmerman announced by The New Black Panthers is sickening and those hate mongers should be jailed for such a despicable act. I expect Dr. King is spinning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:36 PM

We'll get to the Panthers right after Zimmerman is jailed for HIS despicable act, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:54 PM

Police released Monday neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman's account of on why he shot Trayvon Martin one month ago, claiming that the slain 17-year-old punched him in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

According to The Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman said he was walking toward his SUV on February 26 when Martin approached him from behind and attacked him after the two exchange words. Zimmerman and his lawyer said he shot Martin in self-defense.

Police indicate in their details that Zimmerman called them to report Martin as a suspicious person and followed him before the two met face-to-face, as the widely heard 911 tapes describe. Police are unsure about what took place between Zimmerman's call to them and the shooting, but said their evidence found that Zimmerman was crying for help. Lawyers from Martin's family said the cries came from the teenager.

Martin's parents and lawyer have said that Zimmerman, who is still free, should be arrested for pursing Martin despite police urging Zimmerman not to follow him on the 911 tapes.

The Martin family confirmed to the Associated Press Monday a report that their son was suspended from school for carrying a bag of marijuana in his book bag.

"We maintain that regardless of the specific reason for the suspension, it's got nothing to do with the events that unfolded on Feb. 26," spokesman Ryan Julison said.

The late teenager's parents and lawyers claim Martin's suspension and the public push back by Zimmerman's lawyer and supporters are designed to denigrate their son's image.

The Raw Story

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 05:05 PM

Obviously Z was not to be trusted with a pistol.

But no workable law could have kept him from purchasing one. As far as I know, he had no criminal record or record of mental instability.

That's one reason the shooting is called a "tragedy." It seems not to have been predictable.

With 200 million guns in this country, it's a credit to Americans that such a relatively small proportion of the 300 million population are shot.

Unless the state can prove premeditation, Z won't be charged with first-degree murder. My guess is it would be some level of manslaughter. There's even the possibility of "negligent homicide" (the terminology varies from state to state)if, for example, Z simply drew his gun as a threat without actually pointing it at M. It may all depend on the details of the scuffle.

The point is that, even if convicted, Z is unlikely to go to prison for life without parole.   

P.S.: Just being Hispanic doesn't mean a person can't hate blacks. (Not that I've seen any proof that Z really does.)

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 05:18 PM

"With 200 million guns in this country, it's a credit to Americans that such a relatively small proportion of the 300 million population are shot."

,.,.,.

Oh, yes, wowza wowza wowza. "Credit". Yay yay yay. "Credit".

                     〠〠〠Pppphhhttthhh〠〠〠

From over here, the only possible response to that is



NO COMMENT!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 05:55 PM

"We'll get to the Panthers right after Zimmerman is jailed for HIS despicable act, OK?"

Odd response. You convict Z before trial and say the Panthers can wait.

I think I'll wait until both are convicted. The only difference between you and I is that there is prima facie evidence today that the Panthers are guilty of a crime.

Anyway, discount and diminish my comment if you wish.

Have fun with it. gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 06:16 PM

If the British had enough guns in circulation for 2/3 their population, and had a significantly lower per capita shooting rate than the U.S., you'd be in a better position to pass judgment.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 06:44 PM

The U.S. homicide rate in 2010 (mostly but not exclusively with guns) was roughly 4.8 per 100,000 population, or roughly 50 in every million. So your chance of being killed by an American with a gun is about 1 in 20,000 each year. (It's considerably less if you stay away from drug gangs and especially if you don't infuriate a volatile relative or acquaintance who has gun handy.)

Too many shootings, but not quite like the TV shows. And remember how many guns are around.

By the way, the chance of being killed in an auto accident, also per person per annum, is about 1 in 90.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 06:50 PM

If you buy the gun lovers mantra "Guns don't kill people....." then the number of guns in the country is irrelevant, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:03 PM

True.

People with guns and other weapons kill people, and without guns a lot of the same people would still find a way to kill people.

The huge number of guns suggests, however, the huge American interest in them and the vast number of people who own one - though many, of course, own more than one. Few of them (guns or people) shoot anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 08:27 PM

Desert Dancer said:
"...I have less of a problem (not none!) with Zimmerman as an individual in this case than (1) the police department (non)response, and (2) our laws that allowed him to be out there untrained or monitored but with a loaded gun, seeing himself as an adjunct in law enforcement."

I agree completely.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 08:42 PM

More people are killed with knives in the UK than firearms. This has went up 37% in the past three years. It comes as no surprise that 53% of deaths in which a blade, hammer or axe is emplyed are by Eastern Europeans.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:23 PM

Here is the most anti-Martin new report I have found:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

My two numbered points above remain true.


I would rhetorically ask -

You are walking home.
An armed man who you do not know, several inches taller than you and one and a half times your body weight starts following you.
You try to avoid him.
He hunts you down and finds you.
He confronts you.

What do you do? Are you in reasonable fear for your life?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:33 PM

So what we have is Zimmerman's story which he has had a month and a team of lawyers to devise???

Hmmmmmmm???

Smells fishy... Very fishy...

150 pound kid attacked 200+ pound adult????

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:08 PM

no workable law could have kept him from purchasing one

In Florida I believe the only requirement for purchasing a handgun is that you're breathing- and they occasionaly exempt folks from that.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:26 PM

Dr. Mahzarin R. Banaji has done significant research on unconscious and implicit cognitions and prejudices.



Unconscious Prejudice is a Youtube video of one of her presentations which includes an explanation of her methodology. There are additional links found there to follow her work.

Project Implicit
allows you to visit the demonstration and research websites to try out some of the tests.

From intro to the website:

Implicit Social Cognition

Investigating the gap between intentions and actions

Project Implicit investigates thoughts and feelings that exist outside of conscious awareness or conscious control. Visit the research or demonstration websites to try out some tests and learn more about the research and yourself!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:37 AM

I've avoided this post, because, as usual, I figured that it would be an emotional frenzy over incomplete FACTS.

As new stuff is coming out, I think we should all wait CALMLY till the complete story comes out.

My initial re-action was the same, in thinking that he should have been arrested....but according to an eyewitness, there DOES seem to be mitigating circumstances....so, it's best to wait...and not re-act to the media's courtroom!

Same thing happened in Arizona when the Congresswoman was shot...everybody jumped to conclusions....and they all got proved WRONG!

..and SHAME on those who have been whipping up the 'lynch mob mentality'
Shame on those who paint this guy as being all 'racist'. We don't know, and neither do you!...But, what DID come out, is that this Zimmerman character taught minorities on weekends, and tutored ALL,(White, Black, Latins) in his own home...FREE....but that being reported, we'll just have to see. Until then, it might do you well, to lay off on the hate/prejudiced opinions, till more FACTS are known.

Not jumping to conclusions,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:41 AM

Total crime has gone down, considerably, in the UK in the last dozen years.

But one of the most interesting figures is about the perception of crime. The British Crime Survey asks people whether they think crime is getting worse where they live and nationally. So, people think crime is getting worse - but not where they live. It's the perception gap between what we know is going on and what we think is going on. Or is that the Daily Mail gap?

• Of the 636 murders in 2010/11, the biggest single number used a sharp instrument, such as a knife, for the murder weapon
• The vast majority of child murder victims are killed by a parent - 36 out of 56. In total, 43 of those victims knew their murderer
• The same goes with total murders - 64% were known to their victim, 33% were friends
• 60% of murders are caused by a quarrel and loss of temper. Only 3% are as a result of theft or robbery

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:34 AM

As I said, it is not gun crime but knife crime that is the problem in the UK today.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/mass-immigration-to-blame-for-knife-culture-chief-constable-warns-6908234.html

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 06:39 AM

Ah, Bluesman's answer to whether it was wrong intentionally to shoot a blameless black youth to death is to cite an article in a known-to-be right wing newspaper from an authoritarian with a track record for views on race and to show us black youths in another place at a different time shooting a child grossly negligently (technically with transferred malice) but not intentionally targeting her.

Just how "Bluesman" does either of those things justify the intentional killing of Trayvon Martin?

I'll also take you up on another point - the only way that Zimmerman got off the last set of charges against him in the USA was by agreeing to undergo certain training: that involves an admission of guilt if not a finding of guilt. "Zimmerman entered a six-month pre-trial diversion program diversion program as part of a plea deal in that case, court documents show".

Another interesting factlet - Zimmerman's father is a retired judge.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:03 AM

I'm am clueless as to how we will ever know the true story here... Seems that the only person who knows it is the killer and he's already got a major PR game going...

But the things we do know certainly make the killer's version of events less than credible...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:06 AM

Nobody should post further until they've watched and considered this:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/former-reporter-joe-oliver-defends-friend-george-zimmerman-on-fox-news/

Oliver was also interviewed on CNN this morning. That interview is not yet on line.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:18 AM

Bobert,


"'m am clueless as to how we will ever know the true story here... Seems that the only person who knows it is the killer and he's already got a major PR game going...

But the things we do know certainly make the killer's version of events less than credible..."



Why not just lynch the guy, without a trial??? I had thought you objected to that kind of reaction.


"George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.
Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him.
The new information is the most complete version yet of what Zimmerman claims happened on the night of Feb. 26 when he shot and killed the teenager.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning. He was not arrested.
Martin's girlfriend had said in a recording obtained exclusively by ABC News that she heard Martin ask Zimmerman "why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here." She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead."


http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:20 AM

If you don't care for Fox News, there's ABC.

Go to 2:15:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/trayvon-martin-shooting-geroge-zimmerman-legal-advisor-joe-oliver-interview-us-15997138

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM

Joe Oliver is the PR front-man for Zimmerman and the "stand your ground" crowd... He's been on every news program out there sounding as if he knows exactly what happened...

Was he there???

No, he wasn't but that doesn't stop him from his 24/7 spinning of Zimmerman as the 2nd coming...

Here are the facts that we know:

*Zimmerman was armed

*Zimmerman called the police to report a "fucking coon" (goon according to Oliver) in the neighborhood

*The police told him to leave Martin alone and that they had a squad car on the way

*Zimmerman disobeyed the police and followed Martin

*Zimmerman, at some point, confronted Martin

*Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

These are the facts... Everything else we are hearing, especially from Zimmerman's buddy, Joe Oliver, are part of Zimmerman's PR campaign...   

I'm not out to lynch anyone, bb... I just don't want a murderer to blow smoke up my posterior...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:04 AM

Forget logic, Richard...

Zimmerman has become the poster-boy for NRA-Stand-your-Ground wackos and they have circled the wagons around him...

Joe Oliver is a joke!!! He spins the mythology as if he had a front row seat to this killing... Maybe someone should ask him where he was at the time of the shooting???

This has become yet another NRA shout down... These crybabies will use anything to keep their member$ (gun dealer$) happy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:06 AM

I can see where this is going. As usual, establishing the facts doesn't matter. People *want* Zimmerman to be a crazed, trigger-happy racist.

Joe Oliver (African-American) says he's known Zimmerman for six years. He paints a different picture. Is he a liar?

The police say Zimmerman had a bruise on the back of his head as well as a bloody nose. A lie?

Nobody knows what Zimmerman said in that inaudible two seconds, which CNN has still not been able to decipher. He was responding to the police question, "Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?" The transcription of his reply is "Back entrance." Then, immediately, two seconds of inaudibility. The perfect opportunity for racial epithet? Maybe not.

Because of the "cast of characters," people are trying to turn a tragedy into a movie script. But life isn't the movies. That's one reason we have jury trials.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:20 AM

Yws, Oliver more than likely is a liar as he is going around the country as Zimmerman's spokesman spinning the heck out of the story...

Where, pray tell, did he get all this knowledge, Lighter??? Did a 600 foot tall Jesus come and tell him exactly what happened???

You must thin that people here are f'n morons???

I mean, give us a break...

As for not not being able to "decipher"... Well, even Joe Oliver says s that Zimmerman said "fucking goon" instead of "fucking coon"??? I mean, either way it is part of the facts of the story...

As for this being a movie script??? Yeah, it should be a documentary to teach people just how the NRA operates to sell more gun$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:38 AM

OK, if Joe Oliver is a liar and/or an NRA/police plant, that will come out in the wash. You can be guaranteed of that.

I didn't hear him say what happened. I heard him say what the tapes and the police report say, and what Zimmerman told him. I don't know whether he's spinning for a friend or not, or how much. (Assuming his friendship with Zimmerman isn't part of the alleged conspiracy.)

I'll also note that there are people who *want* Trayvon Martin to have been a dangerous thug.

Let's see where the Federal investigation goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 10:36 AM

...an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

Guess Martin had donned his cloak of invisibility at that point, so that Brown didn't see him, eh Bruce?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 11:46 AM

I was surprised to hear this morning that Zimmerman STILL has possession of the gun that was used in the shooting.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:18 PM

Bobert: "Joe Oliver is the PR front-man for Zimmerman and the "stand your ground" crowd... He's been on every news program out there sounding as if he knows exactly what happened...

Was he there??? .."

..and neither were YOU....so lay off the lynch mob shit and STFU, until more comes out!!

GfS

...and I was being polite, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 02:25 PM

"Guess Martin had donned his cloak of invisibility at that point, so that Brown didn't see him, eh Bruce?"

I wouldn't know- I WAS NOT THERE.

Nor were the people commenting here.

The quote was that a witness had seen Z on the ground BEFORE the shot. In the absence of other information, that, and the condition of Zimmerman as described by the police lead a reasonable person to at least consider finding the facts before convicting him.

This seems more like a lynching every moment. If the colors were reversed, would Bobert be so eager to convict Zimmerman??? When do we have the crowds beating up random fat white men for all being "racist killers"??? Isn't that the next part of the agenda????

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: meself
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:03 PM

Um - it's been a month or so, and I haven't heard of any 'random fat white men' beaten up yet. But I have heard of a random Black boy being shot and killed.

Anyway, I'd take a broken nose over being shot fatally in the chest any day. In fact, I have a broken nose. No big deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:38 PM

So good to see you up and around bb.......I figured you were probably traumatised and spouting jibberish from the news that in an upcoming movie, "Butler," the role of Nancy Reagan will be played by Jane Fonda......then again, spouting jibberish is a sign that shows you are your normal self.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 06:42 PM

""Because of the "cast of characters," people are trying to turn a tragedy into a movie script. But life isn't the movies. That's one reason we have jury trials.""

Then why isn't he on bail awaiting a jury trial which would either convict or clear him?

The authorities have closed ranks to protect him. If he is innocent, why does he need that protection?

You can't talk about jury trial when the killer (and there is no doubt he killed) isn't even arrested, no forensic evidence is collected, and no check for alcohol or drugs.

What we have here is a dead black child and an armed white man still alive. America shrugs its shoulders.

Not much has changed since Kennedy and King.

Don T.