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Thread Proliferation Control
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Ralphie Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:53 PM Jeri... Many Thanks..! Have never forgiven Mrs Ackroyd for biting my ankles many years ago. Sleep Well Ralphie (Barking... How does that work?) |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Bill D Date: 01 Mar 03 - 07:43 PM Joe...re: cascading menus...I have advocated 'some' form of parallel forums for years. It is hard to predict the exact effect that would have, but I have both given and attended sings/parties where those who chose to chat and socialize rather than sing were politely told to do it in another room. In a large enough house, it is not only possible, but essential! What happened was that people tended to wander back & forth and the hard-core singers weren't seriously distracted. **IF** the Forum menu were clear that parallel 'rooms' were operating, much like Jon's Annex works, and *IF* seriously off topic posts and thread drift were directed 'over there', I think it might be useful. I know...some music threads include banter and remarks, much as real sings get noisy interruptions temporarily, as folks react to each other....but wouldn't it be just as easy...or easier...for you to ahem 'edit' things if major distractions were sent somehwere else?? what we are fighting here is human nature...and I suspect it would be a bit easier to "give the boys a racetrack" rather than trying to prohibit them from racing up & down Main Street (yeah, I sometimes race MY engine, too) |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: The Shambles Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:27 PM I am sorry but all this talk of battles over turf is the paranoid perception of a few blinkered souls. As Art pointed out, the forum continues. It is oblivious to one person's idea of 'balance' being forced upon those who have the responsibility for any balance, the posters. Any attempt to shape or 'control' the natural balance of the various contributions, justified by references to trouble-makers, will fail anyway as the vast majority of the posters are clearly just getting on with posting. As I would be doing if this non musical 'navel-gazing' thread had not been started. Can these be kept off the main forum and be confined to the help forum where those that find this stuff interesting can talk about it endlessly, and everyone else can plod on with the business of the forum, the contributions? There still has been no exact problem identified, just vague references to balance or mess and the same tired old bashing of our guests and even more threats. I suspect many others like me, like the bloody forum as it is and see no need for censorship, except the limits we place on ourselves. How about a test to see if there really is a problem? For the next two months or so, no tweaks, no mild consolidations etc, and then let us see if the contributors generally notice any difference or there is any resulting inbalance? How about giving this a try first? |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,Karen Date: 01 Mar 03 - 09:02 PM Rick Fielding, for a guy who claims not to really care and not have any computer tracking skills, you seem to have gone to some length to track this person down online. Looks like light stalking to me. Maybe I'm the one being paranoid now, but as a female poster, the information you are giving out about this person is troubling to me. How many other guests and members are being tracked by Max, Joe, and or the Mudcat clones? Problem I'm having with both your & katlaughing's response is, where did you come up with this person's name in the first place? It had to come from somewhere, and neither of you said where or how you got the person's name from, so what are we to think? That tells me someone here is Mudcat is responsible for putting this person, who appears only once in the archives, on a list of posters "to be watched". Well, how do regular folks like Rick Fielding get this information, and is the passing around of information about posters to this website routinely given out when they become "a problem"? Something just doesn't seem right to me about this whole Janet Ryan thing. Now Ralphie too mentions the name. Where is everyone here getting the information, and are the "right" members privvy to this sort of private information about people posting here? Why do a few members and clones here have it in for this person anyway? Has this person been sanctioned elsewhere on the internet (perhaps in the other group Rick mentioned)? Has this person been personally identified by Mudcat management, their ISP contacted, etc. for doing something seriously destructive here? Or is this, as I fear, just some negative "smoke the guest out of the hole" thing here at Mudcat? Whatever it is, it is getting VERRY CREEPY if these are the lengths people around here are going to, just to out the identity of a poster to apparently wishes to remain anonymous. Considering that this forum does allow anyone who posts here to remain anonymous, these attempts to "expose" someone's identity seems very wrong to me. It also makes me wonder what other information about posters is being swapped through Mudcat backchannels. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Blackcatter Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:21 AM guest karen: As for your statement earlier: "Or is the problem that Mudcat is under new management without our being told?" Do you honestly think you have a right to know if this is true or not? Do you honestly think that you have any rights on the Mudcat? Also: You aren't paranoid, someone may be hunting you down. But not from the place you think . . . . As for swapping "secret" information - check your doctor's office, your bank and your local DMV - look into how much of your private life they're SELLING to other companies. Run a spyware check on your computer - if you've downloaded music from the Internet, you might have also downloaded programs that allow someone to see the entire contents of your computer. Next time you fly in the U.S. think about how the airlines are gearing up to do credit and bank account checks on you to see if you are a potential terrorist. Or - you can worry about a simple little discussion website where no one really gives a damn about your "secret" information. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Blackcatter Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:27 AM Once again, I tend to agree with Art, with the exception that I think that each of these treads is funny, funny, funny. I've been here at Mudcat for over 4 years now and laugh everytime I see another thread about this stuff: Mudcat is running downhill The owners / managers are taking away rights, "Guests" don't get any respect There's a secret Clique There's a not-so-secret Clique Thank you all for amusing me. I'm off the the Guinness thread. Mudcat Folks! (cause 'Mudcat Rocks!' doesn't seem to make a lot of sense . . . ) pax yall |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: winterchild Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:06 AM Joe, given a difficult situation, you do the best you can, and you do good work. I think lots of people are getting more upset than they need to, but what do I know, I'm an Aspie (see Apserger's thread). I do know that I'd HATE it if fewer of all of these marvellous musicians hung around in MudCat. Definitely. 'nuf said WinterChild |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 02 Mar 03 - 08:44 AM God you people are whiners. ... Get a grip. You gutless people cancel my threads, cancel posts like this, bitch because not everyone wants to discuss Woody Guthrie's last proctology report and absolutely wet yourselves when it comes to practicing freedom of speech. Gutless bunch of whiners for the most part who are too stupid to realize your 'liberal' ideology is going to get your ass fried in a concentration camp. I've been pointing out for over a year on lots of forums that GWBush is a mass-murdering serial killer, and I write my representatives about it and call in to talk shows about it and hand out tapes and literature about it and couldn't care less what any of you think about it. But you make it so much FUN to come here and lambast you that it's just hard to stay away. I might have paid just one single visit to this place if Joe Offer or one of the 'drones' hadn't deleted my first thread. I checked in, saw how the place worked and posted my catch-all political diatribe painting the world as we now see it, but a censor decided to delete it. Gauntlet thrown down, so I resolved to BLUDGEON you folks with political themes. Rub your faces in it. Most of you are so liberal...well that's WHY you hate Bush. Because you're liberal. You have NO IDEA that you've been brainwashed into viewing the world through a phony left-right paradigm. Marx and Engels were COMMISSIONED 150 years ago by the royal families to create a new paradigm because labor was starting to figure out how the elites worked. So a new system was created and you still believe it's just the natural way of things. I tried to lay this out but one of 'the drones' deleted the entry and you people have had me pestering you ever since. THAT is the major problem with your censorship here. Leave well enough alone and don't piss people off and people like me will lose interest in your smug little o-zone. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: belfast Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:17 AM There are no less than three threads currently open on the subject of "Raglan Road". And this is a song that has been talked to death in previous threads. I'm totally in favour of some proliferation control. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:41 AM Look at who started this thread. Look at who started the "Cut and Paste Prohibitions" thread. We do see the same people shit stirring this forum over and over and over ad nauseum. But who are the shit stirrers, really? Here is a nice story for your Sunday amusement, about an idyllic folk heaven called "Mudcat Cafe". First this guy... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame79.html Is sent forth by these folks... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame20.html and a number of these, operating through the Mudcat PM shadow forum, who once the insult is passive agressively posted about member so and so, apologizes profusely... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame42.html So The Beloved Admin starts a thread just like this one, which begins a reactionary chain of events among the hoi polloi members and guests, by lobbing one of these babies: a highly predictable forum explosive, triggered by terms used in the original post by Beloved Admin like "anonymous guest(s)" or "PEL" or "Iraq"... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame65.html Why do they do it? Some say, "because they can". Others surmise they do it in order to maintain their grip on power at Mudcat, when feeling threatened by newcomers, or those who refuse to recognize their power and place in the Sacred Hierarchy. Whatever the motive of the moment, the game being played is Forum Divide and Conquer. It is a cinch for Beloved Admin, The Royals, and the Whisperers, because they can't lose, and the hoi polloi are, of course, powerless to stop them. Sort of like George Bush lording it over the rest of the world. So without lifting another typing finger, Beloved Admin and the Mudcat Royals are able to bring in the usual reinforcements to circle the wagons... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame38.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame3.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame35.html Please note that most of the above are mui macho types (regardless of gender), and they all respond when they hear their leaders' Call to War on Enemy Guests. Some of them are DYING (for the good of their egos--oops! I mean forum) to fall on their swords so they can be seen as one of these... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame64.html acting in high minded service to protect these poor, vulnerable Mudcat folk (genders interchangeable here)... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame27.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame6.html The ensuing battle often results in a number of highly respected Mudcat members taking this sort of a turn, when their absolute power ends up, well...many a Mudcatter has seen how folks like this end up... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame32.html Once the battle reaches this fever pitch, finally, we see this... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame49.html The Sacred Hierarchy, for a brief, shining moment, feels morally cleansed. And then, as Art Thieme says, The Forum Moves On. Until the Special Ones again feel the need to cleanse themselves, renewing the process once again. And again. And happily, ever after. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Bill D Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:55 AM dreaded guest..freedom of speech means you can say it somewhere, not that you can say anything you please anywhere you please. Write a book and publish it....start your own web blog....go shout from a soapbox in the park, just don't presume to use what is meant to be a shared forum among friends for your own personal podium. If you were a 'person' who traded songs, recipes, jokes and stories of you kids & cats, and also tossed out opinions on the world sometimes, you would be MUCH more tolerated, even if considered a bit weird for the tenor and breadth of your 'concerns'. I sometimes host 'open sings' at my house...published in a newsletter, and open to anyone who wants to pop by...and at times we stand around and gossip and chat about the world, too! But if anyone came to those sessions, month after month, wearing a disguise, and did NOTHING but exhort us to pay attention to his latest political theory...and castigated us when we complained....well, I, being the host, would have thrown his butt out. Max and Joe, being the hosts, have the right to do the same here...it is just more difficult, and THEY are more tolerant than I am. This is just more wasted effort on my part, as you have shown that you simply do not care! You have an agenda, and you intend to keep being pushy and combative and twisting the arguement to make it sound as though YOU are the one who is being inconvenienced when an occasional excess is deleted or moved! You don't get it...you don't WANT to get it...you want YOUR way in someone else's house, and that is patently offensive! You mentioned before that you had been banned from other forums in the past...I wonder why..... I am trying to talk myself into just dropping out of this discussion and allowing Joe and Max, etc to deal with it as they will...maybe I will even succeed. *wry grin* |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Rick Fielding Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:56 AM Dear "GUEST KAREN": The last thing in the world I wanna do is make someone feel creepy, so please accept my apology. I absolutely assure you that I have no "inner Mudcat or Computer info", and even if I did, I have so little interest in that kind of thing, I'd quickly forget it. Nope...a couple of times a GUEST really took over some interesting threads, where a civil discussion was going on. They manipulated them in a way that made them very ugly, and changed their whole meaning. Their skills in that area are quite astounding. They even addressed ME several times by MY name, without offering me the same courtesy. THAT's why I decided to even things out a bit. Had they NOT used my name (in a negative way) I'd hardly have noticed. The sleuthing I did took a very short time, and used my own intuition far more than computer stuff. Considering that I've been using my real name, my wife's, and our Toronto Ontario location since I joined the Mudcat (and was victim of a Flamer's 'name" stealing for a while) maybe I'm a tad more sensitive about this kind of thing than some. The name "JR" DID come from some other discussion group (and I honestly can't remember which one....perhaps a British one) and the rest was easy....a really good writer is no problem to find.......if ya know HOW to read. I do. But.....anyway Karen, I'm sorry if it made you feel 'creepy', I assure you there's nothing personal, and it was a response to an anonymous poster turning it personal with ME. Cheers Rick Fielding P.S. Now let's talk about music! |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: CarolC Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:11 PM Basically, though, the responsibility for the forum is shared by Max, Jeff, and Joe - and Joe does most of the moderation of the Forum. My mistake. I am not well versed in who wears what titles behind the scenes, so I assumed that anyone who works behind the scenes and isn't Joe or Max, is a clone. I stand corrected. So to further address what I said in my last post, I have not had any behind the scenes experiences with Jeri, so I don't really know what her strengths and weaknesses are. But I do know Jeff and Joe well enough to know some of their strengths and weaknesses. I find that one area where Jeff particularly shines is his ability to handle difficult situations with compassion. I know that Jeff is a brilliant tech guy, but I think his people skills are a great asset to the Mudcat as well. I hope he gets the credit he deserves for that. No, you wouldn't want hard-and-fast rules if you got them. Perhaps you're right, Joe. Maybe hard and fast rules are a bad idea. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:53 PM My last post has been edited. It read better in the original. A lot of you feel free to criticize and call names but don't realize that's a two-way street. Freedom of speech will cease to exist, Bill, if it's not used. Now. Use it now or you will never be able to again. Rumsfeld, Cheney, the Bushes and Clinton are sociopathic killers. Your television is their primary control tool. 50% of Americans have been taught to believe Saddam Hussein was behind Sept 11. 50% of Americans will be taught that Arab-Americans ASKED to be placed in concentration camps...'for their own safety'. Because of the news reports on the box. Then your group will be next. Yesterday there were war gatherings locally, pro and con. The bit of news I saw contained a one-minute segment. Showed a bunch of people in suits holding American flags while one older man said 'we support our president and troops'. Next, the news showed the 'anti-war' group. Nothing but beards and incessant bongo music and butt-shaking. No flags, no red white and blue, no suits. And since none of them mentioned 'the troops', the implication was that the anti-war people are AGAINST the troops. I refuse to believe America supports this war, but we're about to reach a quarter million troops out of country...fow what purpose? And what is in store that's so bad millions of new concentration camp beds have been built on American soil? There was never any real spending on Civil Defense when THAT was supposed to be a real problem, so why now, when there is a vague terrorist problem, do we see them stringing concertina wire in order to deal with it? GWBush knew about and aided the 9-11 terrorists. So did Bill Clinton. And it was just the kick-off for the upcoming slaughter of Americans. Sharp eye. Personal attacks are prohibited. If you cross the line, you get edited. If you want to attack me, that's OK (generally). I have thick skin. If you want to launch a personal attack attack any other individual, it's not. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,disgusted Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:56 PM I resent being held hostage to this "Dreaded Guest"'s paranoid psychosis. Why doesn't someone do something about it? It has gone far enough! |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: *daylia* Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:22 PM Disgusted, I don't like "paranoid psychosis" either, but I'm sure that our DG does not consider him/herself, or his/her opinions either paranoid or psychotic. C'est la vie! However, the only one holding me 'hostage' to the opinions of others is myself, as long I choose to continue spending time and energy on it. Which I did, until I'd worked out my own way of dealing with it satisfactorily. Now it doesn't bother - or attract - me anymore (well, not much anyway). I think that when all's said and done, no-one can "do something about it" except oneself, for oneself. But I do appreciate Joe's efforts at organizing the place via thread consolidation! Just my 2 cents worth - daylia |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:33 PM There is not a thing that's paranoid or psychotic about my last post, 'disgusted'. That's your fear speaking. You have been programmed to discount the unpleasant. Why did FEMA complete 3 million new fenced-in bed spaces in January? Why did Clinton AND Bush threaten to fire FBI field agents investigating the bin Ladens before Sept 11? I'm curious to see how long I can long my posting here will be allowed. There's lots of talk about non-censorship, but there's also talk about grants for the site. All grants involve govt sponsorship (either through direct contributions or write-off status), so the govt WILL claim rights on this site if push comes to shove. So how far do the principles espoused by the 'clones' extend? I expect the clones have gotten in a bit deeper with me than they planned, but that's what they get for physically trying to re-shape the message. And my message is simple. The U.S. govt has been seized by organized crime. We are being terrorized daily by the people responsible for Sept 11 (the Bush Company's CIA), and America is being financially destroyed so it can be conquered. I could REALLY get into this stuff with charts and graphs and govt websites if you want, but then you might have to actually DO something to protect your family when the full realization of what's going on hits you. And by the way, Free Will is a fact of life. No one is 'holding you hostage'. That's a hundred years of socialist programming speaking. You've been taught that someone else needs to take care of you because you don't have the ability, the skill, the backbone. Which is EXACTLY the way your overlords want you to be. You want everything 'fixed' for you, but the solution here is to just not fix your eyes on my postings. I use a consistent handle so you can avoid me, so what IS the problem? Oh...I looked at the earlier post with all the links (M. Reed) and it is hilarious. That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen on the web. I think I'm a Jeckyll and Hyde, and I bet a lot of you recognized yourselves in it. Thanks 'GUEST' for posting that. Really, really cool. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Lepus Rex Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM Well, Joe, it looks like your new policy isn't working. Not very popular, either. It's made more than just anonymous GUESTs feel uncomfortable/unwelcome. Told ya. (monkey-cock and all that) :) Hey, Rick, what is your real name? :o TDR, while I don't mind your theories, you're distracting from your point by listing them here. ---Lepus Rex Thank you very much for your opinion, Mr. Rex. It will be disregarded. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,disgusted Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:46 PM I want to avoid you, so why don't you drop dead? We'd all be better off! |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Lepus Rex Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:51 PM Disregard it if you like, Joe. With slight adjustments, it's the opinion of others, as well. You're not saying that you're going to disregard the opinions of your, uh, subjects, are you? :) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Ralphie Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:30 PM With respect to all parties...Guests, Members, Joe, Clones (various), Trolls, Flamers, and Utter Bastards...This is not a fun thread anymore. Will someone shut it down? PLEASE! Not meaning to offend, (But probably will) Ralphie....and Yes, you can have my National Insurance Number if you like. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 02 Mar 03 - 07:59 PM Yes, Lepus Rex, it IS a lot of time investment to review the same fundamentals over and over and over, and I've pretty much had my fill of it. I made my points repeatedly here just like I'm currently doing on another site...a conservative site. The time I've spent between the two could have been used to blast through a hundred other forums and spread my core message, but some groups DO cry out for a little extra education. Mudcatters aren't as mule-headed as the group of Nazis I'm also arguing with at the moment, but resistance to change seems to be a common denominator. Whether you folks know it or not, we are at war. Not with the people who have 'terrorist' superimposed over their faces on your television, but with the people who control the television programming. Dig around through my posts marked 'The Dreaded Guest' or 'The Hated Guest' and I'll lecture you ad nauseum on the topic. The govts of the world which have strong central banks are controlled by organized crime, and that criminal organization is bent on dominating the world. And we stand in their way...some with more resistance than others. I'll leave you with a good 'conspiracy theory'. I haven't mentioned this here, but Saudi Arabia is running out of oil. And they are terrified. They've kissed the ass of the U.S. for 55 years, and their neighbors hate them for it. The bin Ladens are rivals of the Saud family, and the bin Ladens are business partners with the Bushes. All indications are that after the U.S. has a quarter-million troops or more in Iraq, Iran will be the next target. Then into Saudi Arabia. Why do you think the CIA planted so many Saudis on the hijacked airliners? So the Saudis know how the Bushes treat their ex business partners (Noriega, Saddam Hussein), and they don't know whether to cash in their chips now or hope they're just mis-reading the Bushes. The Saudis could bankrupt America tomorrow if they withdrew their investments in this country, so maybe that's the way the Bushes plan to destroy our economy...threaten Saudi Arabia with invasion so they destroy our banking system. But that's just a theory based on previous trends and indicators. Anyway, I will now make a folder containing bookmarks to the threads I've posted on and come back from time to time as a NEWBIE and resurrect the old discussions. That'll allow me to just reassert my points with a click and a couple of sentences. Why do any more than that? Y'all have been cautioned and I've been exhausted. I may come back tomorrow and post another 'conspiracy theory', but it's too sensitive to get into right now. Might cause undue distress, since it's too late to do anything about it. But it's a good one. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Mark Cohen Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:17 PM Dreaded Guest, I agree with you. Well, not everything. Still, unlike many people here, I think that much of what you've been saying has validity. However, I'm getting very tired of listening to you say it. It seems to me that you're alienating many more people than you're convincing. Maybe you could find a more productive method. (I don't have any good answers, just like I didn't back in the Christic Institute days. If I think of something, I'll try to let you know.) Now, then. I was happy with what Joe was doing, until he added an editorial comment to one of my posts that squashed a fairly clever joke (even suckered 'Spaw!). But I can live with that. I think he did that because he was feeling defensive about the reaction to what he's been doing. But he can probably live with that. In my view, this is all a tempest in a teapot. I just counted 58 threads on the Forum main page that relate to music and would appear to have general interest. That's plenty for me. I stopped reading the PEL posts months ago, and I dearly miss the Drumcree threads (seems like I killed one of them with what I thought was another pretty clever joke...oh,well). I like the forum the way it is, and I have liked it for 4 years, even through its "problems." It was a welcome addition to my life at a time when I was under extreme stress and isolated from friends and music, and I still enjoy it even as my life has improved. I'm with Shambles on this one (nice to see you here again, Sham). My vote is for Joe to spend more time with his wonderful new wife and family and less time worrying about how many threads there are. Aloha, Mark It WAS a clever joke, Mark. I just figured there were too many touchy people around here who wouldn't get it; and then I'd be in trouble again, mistakenly accused of blatantly censoring your post. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Blackcatter Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:18 PM ahhhhh After a long day, I check in at my favorite site and read the continuing saga of this thread - one of the funniest around here for a long time. First of all, I love that it took many posts over a couple days for the "guest" - and to me all guests are one person, until I'm proven wrong - to notice it and open their kind heart to share their opinions (too often NOT shared) with the rest of us. Secondly, I love the fact that people think that each time Joe starts a thread like this, or says something like this in a thread, he his surprised that people innundate the Mudcat with complaints Thridly, I still don't understand why all those who hate this place so much, don't just leave? Funny, funny, funny Oh - if and when we go to war - I sincerely hope that everyone who is in favor of it will join the army and put their life where their comments are. My guess that won't happen anymore than Lee Greenwood didn't enlist even though he fervently wished to do just that in that tripe-ridden song he so ably sang a decade ago. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Art Thieme Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:44 PM Joe, I'm still with ya. Art |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Mark Cohen Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:36 AM Oh, dear, oh Joe Offer's got no courage in him! (insert silly smiley face thing here) Come on, Joe, you have to stop "figuring" so much. You see, I think that's part of the problem---"they"'ve got to you. So what if they mistakenly accuse you of blatantly censoring my post? That's their problem, not yours. Unless you need a recommendation from Mudcat members to get into college...which somehow I doubt. Relax! The 'Cat will be what it will be, and will become what it will become, and if you try to push it, and keep worrying about whether people will like you, you'll just wear yourself out. I like you. Lots of people like you. And some people don't. BFD. You've been doing a good job...but I think that by trying to "keep the Forum from degenerating" you're making your job much harder than it has to be. The Forum won't degenerate: too many people appreciate it too much. And even if it does...we'll still keep making music, and we'll find some way to connect. It's too much fun not to. Aloha (and I mean that sincerely), Mark |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:07 AM Joe should listen to his friends. I thought he was going to get a life when he got married? Max did it, and Joe could do it too if he got over his control and power issues here. And stopped listening to his whispering clones giving him "advice". |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:41 AM Well, actually, I'm retired and my wife works. So while my wife is working, I have plenty of time to be here and bask in your chutzpah, O Nameless One. Or give you a hard time, one of the two. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 12:24 PM For chrissake Joe, ban me, but don't continue to manipulate, punish, and poison the forum with this vendetta. It is becoming increasingly obvious to at least some of your supporters (as it has been for some time to all of your detractors) that you, Jeri, catspaw, katlaughing, and Big Mick (the clones who have personally identified themselves, even though you said their identities would not be revealed) are on the absolute wrong track with this "anti-guest pogrom" as Lepus Rex so aptly described it. Yet, your little group keeps hunkered down in the bunkers, deluding yourselves into believing that disrupting and censoring the forum is a good way to get back at me. This isn't high school Joe. You and the clones look like idiots, and are sewing some serious seeds of discontent that really can destroy the forum if you continue down this road of "controlling" posters, posts, and threads, and wielding power because you can. All kinds of people have said "what problem"? Your justifications sound like the Bush administration's justifications for going to war against Saddam. Some of us know better. We know that such an amorphous campaign gets undertaken when there are personal grudge matches involved. If you are going to do the job of forum moderator well, you can't allow your personal feelings about posters, no matter how much you dislike their posting habits, or what they've said to you and your friends, to make you so reactionary and unbalanced. And to be messing with the two most important musically related political discussions--PEL and war with Iraq--in the forum in recent years is just inexcusable. People are using this place as a means of political organizing, it is true. But it is political organizing being done by politically oriented folk musicians. You can't separate the two, and declare that the two subjects your forum participants feel the most passionate about, are going to be "limited" because you think those people post too prolifically. So what if they are posting prolifically? It is what has made this site not only enjoyable, but an important space for discussion and debate in the online folk and blues music community. This is one of the only places online where folk and blues musicians can come to discuss these crucially important issues. Remember Joe, these issues are being discussed here, because these are the issues that matter deeply to a core group of politically oriented folk and blues musicians. You should be taking great pride in the fact that they have chosen this forum to engage in their discussions and debates. Not ostracize and bully and demean them for it. If you and the clones don't get that, then you really do need to step aside, and turn the reigns over to people who aren't so invested in their petty personal shit as you guys seem to be, who can moderate the forum with an open hand, rather than a closed fist. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:43 PM You know what, JR WAMSO Matriot GUEST karen, samantha, etc? Your protestations would have some credibility if you weren't posting under aliases all over the place and acting like you are everything from a man to a Russian having problems with English, on and on. Of course you want Joe to turn over the reins. That is because he is getting to you and he is on the right track. Your posting above is another attempt to all of a sudden seem "the voice of reason who just cares about The Mudcat" while simultaneously posting destructive phoney crap on other threads. I find it to be the ultimate irony that the reason you can hold Joe, and the rest of the people who volunteer time and money to keep this place in existence, is because we identify ourselves. I wonder how it would be if I exposed your phoney identity crap anonymously? My guess is that you would cry and complain about not knowing who your accuser was. I could care less about your anonymity. Your motives are what trouble me. Your motives are to seek attention, be destructive, and to manipulate nice folks. It is the latter of these that is most troubling. Because these folks want to see the best in people, and are gentle, and use reason, you can take advantage of their decent nature. I have been fighting folks who do this shit my entire life. They are bullies, and you are a bullie. Your game is disgusting. I believe very strongly that Joe, Max and Jeff should follow your advice so you can call yourself a martyr in other places. They won't, because they are wise enough not to play your game. But know this. I would. And Mudcat would be better off for it. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: The Shambles Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:49 PM In life you have to make choices. It is not possibly to have your cake and eat it. It is not possible to be 'one of the lads' if you also wish to exert power and pass your personal judgement upon them. Can those with the power, make their choice please? To make their personal comments and express their opinions in the threads with all of us, or to place little coloured personal comments, after taking action or when passing judgement upon us. Perhaps possibly the very best choice they can make is to do neither but to go away and leave the rest of us to it? |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:10 PM Your blind spot, Big Mick, is thinking that anonymity is the issue. Hence your, and the merry band of clones obsession with playing the "smoke the guest out of the anonymity hole" game. If anything will destroy Mudcat, it will be this obsession. Not me or any other guest that posts anonymously and with different handles, which I have always admitted to doing. As have other guests. I don't know what the lot of you think would be accomplished by "exposing" me. Never have been able to figure that one out. The "big issue" to you is obviously the fact that I don't use a consistent identity at Mudcat. That isn't an issue to me. I have no idea if my "true identity" is an issue to most posters here. But I'm guessing that most posters and lurkers here really don't give a rat's ass who I am, just as they don't give a rat's ass as to who Forum Lurker or Dreaded Guest or The Pooka or Gargoyle "really are". I mean c'mon, it ain't like I'm Chelsea, Bill, or Hillary Clinton Big Mick, so just how fascinating of a detail can my "real identity" be to people? If Joe and the clones could actually get their egos around the fact that they are a tiny minority of posters here who DO want to "out" anonymous and pseudonymous posters, Mudcat would be a much better place. Your obsession is every bit as sick as those who attempt to "out" gays and lesbians they don't like. Which is really, really sick. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM BTW, I suppose we may be making some progress when Joe and Big Mick admit to engaging in a personal vendetta here. The Shambles is, once again, dead on when he says: "To make their (Joe and clones) personal comments and express their opinions in the threads...or to place little coloured personal comments, after taking action or when passing judgement upon us..." I know it isn't just me Joe and clones are after--they've also made some of the PEL activist/members, and members who post to the political threads, targets of their cleansing campaign too. They are now censoring and hassling anyone and everyone in this thread "shakedown" who has made it onto their Mudcat blacklist. Some of us remember how a blacklist works too, Joe and the clones. And those people are now daring to speak out against you and your closed fist tactics. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,p_m_a@hotmail.com Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM I guess Mr Gall is saying if you dont agree with him "shut up". mmmm, now let me see...which country are we in now? |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:33 PM Nice try, but you really miss the point. And your protestations to the contrary don't ring true. There is only one thing that you said that is true. And that is that anonymity isn't the real issue. It is behaviour. When you attempt to act as though you have been on the up and up, you just look pathetic. It is not that you are anonymous per se, it is your actions that attempt to deceive done under the guise of anonymity. Look at your posts above as "karen". You act like you are a different person trying to defend. How about the samantha thread in which you attempt to change the way you write and spell, use of small "i" and all that. These are attempts to see if you can fool folks into thinking there is this huge problem, when the fact is that there are only a few posing as several apiece. Your motives come through loud and clear. And they are destructive and self serving in my opinion. You are right. Who you are isn't as important as what your actions are. And as long as I am able I intend to see that you get credit for them. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Amos Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:38 PM Jesus, you get tedious. The issue never has been anonymity. Never. It has always been the insidious vitriol of your posts, which you deliver from anonymity, and the fact that your extreme instability of person, which is dramatized by the fact that you won't use even a token in the forum with any consistency, MUTIPLIES the distructive impact of your venemous communication. That is the only issue anyone has had. Your tactics are designed to destroy communication, while others prefer a forum which nourishes it. Your associating this preference with censorship, rfacism, and whatever other black nightmares your overheated and paranoid imagination comes up with is just ludicrous. You miss the point over, and over, and over again. No one CARES who you really are. All anyone cares about is that you stop peeing in the soup with your perfervid negativity. Your intentional efforts to discourage, frighten, and propogate uncertainty, doubt and overwhelming fear are BORING. I ain't saying this agin. A |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:02 PM You are absolutely right about this being about behavior, Big Mick. But it is about the behavior of Joe and the clones, not mine. By threatening to "out" me by publishing my private information publicly in the forum, you have proven what many already suspect anyway. That Joe and the clones are grossly abusing their power by passing out private information about certain posters they don't like to a privleged few Mudcat members, while insisting they aren't doing any such thing. That is YOUR big lie. If you are willing to publish my private information in the forum, e, chances are very high you will do it to anyone you don't like. Therein lies the problem--that slippery slope I keep talking about. Vengeance won't win this one for Joe and the clones, because it never can. Which is why Joe and the current clones likely need to step aside. It is clear they are unbalanced, reactionary, and blinded by their desire for vengeance. They've started to target other posters who annoy them, as a smokescreeen. To try and divert attention away from what their real agenda is here. Which just so happens to be petty and personal--PEL, political threads, and members and guests they personally dislike. They've proved they will go to almost any length to "get to" me. So what lengths do you suppose Joe and the clones will go to to "get to" the rest of you they don't like? Go ahead and "make an example of me", Big Mick. Go right ahead and publish all the private information you've got to "prove" my identity. The only fraud you will be exposing is your own. You will then have provided proof to everyone here, that you are all using private information of posters you have targeted, and handing it around the Mudcat inner circle. And that if anyone steps out of line, disagrees with you, pisses you off, that they'll be next. No single poster, whether member or guest, has the power to destroy this forum. Only Max, Joe, Jeff and the clones have that power. Threatening to expose private information about ANY poster to the forum is a gross abuse of power. But the fact that Joe and the clones are this tempted to do it, should be setting off peoples' alarm bells. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:09 PM Your motives are to seek attention, be destructive, and to manipulate nice folks He's sure manipulated a bunch of people into being destructive and goaded them ito giving him attention. :) |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:11 PM Never said I would publish your private information. Your problem is that there are too many people that know me personally. They know I wouldn't do that and that I am not threatening you personally. I reiterate that. But what I will do is see to it that you get credit for everything that you are doing. No more hiding behind the identities if I can help it. I have only used one personal handle, and that is so you would know and I have never shared with a soul here why I use it. And I don't intend to. I told you before, some months ago, that I believe we have more in common than not. I also pointed out that a number of the things you post about topics that interest you are excellent posts. I think you know that there are any number of posts that I have not responded to as they were very good. But when you get on these manipulative, destructive threads.........when you attack a man like Joe, who is honorable and spends hours and hours trying to keep this thing going, when you attack Max when he has sacrificed much, personally, and financially, .................. I am just not going to let that go on unchecked. As I said, as long as I am able, you will not do this without everyone knowing who is doing it. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM (Now THIS is a 'conspiracy theory'...one which unfortunately came to mind after reading two or three of the press releases from the illegitimate US govt): WHY I SKIPPED MARDI GRAS THIS YEAR Some of the organized criminals running the world are lunatics and occultists. The Bushes, for example. They worship stone owls and belong to the Skull and Bones society and put store by the Illuminati garbage. And to the Illuminatis, numerology is a big thing. And today is an important date numerologically...March 3. 03-03-03. Meanwhile, New Orleans was just signed over to the new American Gestapo...the Office of Homeland Security. The first large city in the U.S. to go through this process. The areas of city management the Gestapo will IMMEDIATELY take control of are as follows: - Police, Fire, Office of Emergency and Preparedness. All formerly reported to the Chief Administrative Office. - Emergency Medical Services, which formerly reported to the Health Department. - Orleans Parish Communications District (911 Center) New Orleans...first city to surrender to the Feds This will mean CIA can be inserted into what are traditionally local aspects of policing...inserted just as a MOB of partiers descends on New Orleans. And knowing the Bushes have a fetish for numerology and the occult, I wonder if the date 3-3-3 isn't just too exciting for them to pass up. They have also planted the most bogus CIA story I've ever seen regarding 'proxy' terrorists: Groundwork for blaming Americans So, all these things taken together make me think the following could occur... On March 3 (today), the CIA might release a bioweapon at Mardi Gras. The vector is ideal...tens or maybe hundreds of thousands infected before they return home to incubate. Ebola has an 8-day-til-death period, I believe, and that was in the news last week cropping up in the Congo. So something like ebola could be released on the Bushes magical date of 3-3-3, and then a 'domestic' group could be blamed. Some patsy would step forward and claim the terrorist act for the KKK or the 'militia' or the 'Baptists' (the stated motivation would be racial, since New Orleans is so mixed-race), and then secret arrests of white Americans as 'domestic terrorists' would begin. The patsy would claim he was working on direct orders from Saddam or bin Laden, too, in order to get the Europeans off the pot on the war. Also, in order to piss off the Muslim world, Christians are being urged to 'pray' today at 3:33PM. Pray so "the armies of heaven will push back the powers of darkness in the Middle East." So, if assaults against Iraq are launched today, it would sure look to a Muslim on the other side of the world like the decadent, occult Christian churches in America were praying for victory: Pray at 3:33 on 3-3-3 Anyway, I thought y'all might want to see a TRUE 'conspiracy theory' before the fact...one that will have been proven or disproven in a couple of weeks. I have no knowledge that any of this stuff is going to occur, but you learn how to read the stories the mass-murderers feed to the newspapers. In writing, it's called 'foreshadowing'. You don't just spring a surprise on the audience, you make them aware of the possibility of an action first. "If a gun is over the fireplace in Act 2, it will be used in Act 3". So the press has now reported on ebola and 'proxy' terrorists, etc, so the stuff I described above (outlandish though it may seem) won't be UNEXPECTED if it DOES occur. Believe me, I hope I'm wrong about it, but I passed on the chance to go to Mardi Gras this year. And I don't view this as paranoia so much as eternal vigilance, which is unpleasant when you're watching your country being reduced to a place where an unelected occultist has set up a 'shadow govt' in bunkers while he drives the nation to insolvency and pushes the world to the brink of WW3. All this has been done either for A) money and power or, B) reasons of occultic lunacy. If B, then the lunatics in charge couldn't launch their bioattack at a more 'favorable' time than 3:33 today. Which would probably be Eastern time, since Eastern time was used when they bombed the WTC in '93, the Murrah bldg in OK City and the WTC in '01. Each event at 9AM eastern. 9-9-9. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:23 PM Oh, so the clones really do have access to posters' private information, Big Mick? Gee, Joe keeps insisting you clones aren't privvy to that information. So which is it now? Do clones have access to posters' private information or not? You can't expose anyone Big Mick, unless you have access to that information yourself, or are given it by Joe or Max or who ever the hell else is being given access to posters' private information. "I am just not going to let that go on unchecked. As I said, as long as I am able, you will not do this without everyone knowing who is doing it." Tsk, tsk Big Mick. That sounds like you are threatening, to me. It also means you have to have access to IPs, etc. to "know" who is posting under what handle, in which post, to a specific thread. That is precisely the information Joe keeps stating you, as a clone, are NOT given access to, so who is lying here? |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:31 PM Come to think of it, I think the old quote about foreshadowing was more like, "If you're going to use a gun in Act 3, put it over the fireplace in Act 2". Implying more of a backwards chain of events, so when your mind works backwards after the deed, you are able to find your own 'explanation' and put the matter to rest. Without the foreshadowing, there can be no real closure. And another thing occurred to me...I read a story last night about Colin Powell signalling the war would start in 10 days. Let's see...ebola released today...confirmed 8 days from now after people have been dropping like flies for a week from what they thought were really bad hangovers...day #9 New Orleans is fixed as the release-point...day # 10 the FBI produces Bubba bin Laden, who points the finger at Hussein...overnight 'emergency meeting' and the U.N. votes for war and the tanks roll. Sounds like a plan. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:34 PM I don't have access to your private information. I have access to your public information. Stuff that you have posted before. And that is enough for me to be able to see you everytime. Nice try on the "threatening" piece. But I am not threatening you. You have nothing to worry about from me, except when you do destructive, manipulative crap. Then the only thing that you have to worry about is folks being on to your game. Because I intend to tell them. By the way, what was your honorable intent in pretending to be a Russian who couldn't spell right? It is in the same thread that you started as Samantha. Your act was so poor that Daisy Duck and others saw right through it. And they aren't even clones!!!! Imagine that, some poor, misinformed person you thought you were manipulating figured you out. Must have been dumb luck. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:37 PM I love it, Dreaded Guest. Message received. I will go off now and just concentrate on the task at hand. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Tinker Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:44 PM On several occaisions we've had children over to visit whose parents believe that limits on behavior are not necessary. I've had children look me in the eye and tell me "of course I can do ____ I do it at home" The answer is always " Sorry, we don't do that here." No debate. No discussion. If they can't follow through, they go home. They don't come back for a long time. Very few six year olds don't understand that the grown up in charge gets to set the rules. Some "adults" never seem to.... Tinker |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:44 PM Oh, so you don't use the only legitimate method of verifying who is posting what, which is the IPs. Instead, you expect people to believe you use your extraordinary psychic literary powers to suss out peoples' identities online instead. Credible, Big Mick. Really credible. I'm still waiting for all the Mudcat members to come in here and thank you for this great public service you are doing the forum, by carrying on this ridiculous vendetta. Like you said a couple of posts back up the line, Big Mick, it is still all about you not getting your way about a veteran's thread, and has absolutely nothing to do with you providing a needed, necessary service to the forum. But I will give you an "A" for effort and persistence. I admit I've never seen anyone online carry a vendetta against another poster that goes to the lengths we are seeing here with Joe and the clones. I just don't understand what the hell kind of fear and insecurity drives them. I really don't. You know, I'm really hurt. I said I often agree with your political opinions, and I said I admire your chutzpah. All I complained about was that you inundate Mudcat with far too much verbiage. Is THAT a vendetta? |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM It isn't about limits and boundaries IMO Tinker. If the problems here were that black and white, they could be resolved fairly easily, and without rancor and backlash from the peanut gallery. It is about a double standard--one standard of behavior for the Mudcat Royals and another for the Mudcat rank and file. It is about certain members and their special privleges and powers to dictate to other Mudcat members what they can and can't post, and what they can can't say, and how they can and can't say it. It is about censorship and punishment of those posters and subjects the Mudcat Royals don't like, and won't tolerate in their midst. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM he's been right every time. That gives him the credibility that you lack |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: Big Mick Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:51 PM Answer the question. |
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Subject: RE: Thread Proliferation Control From: katlaughing Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:51 PM A few quotes that bear repeating from Max's first posting from Nov. 2001 in this thread: Please everyone, show tolerance and patience, love and empathy. I strive to have no negative emotions in my life, especially hate. I don't even allow my daughter use the word, and can't remember the last time I have, even casually about a food I don't like. I must admit that something that I am so closely associated with (Mudcat) contains so much of it... I've been through a lot...taking extraordinary efforts to keep Mudcat alive. I have shown tolerance and respect for it and all of you. Do me the same and help me clean up our imaginary town here at Mudcat, and fill it with love... Remember, this site is about Traditional Music. It is for musicians, educators and appreciaters to share stories, techniques, songs, etc. It also facilitates our real friendships and get-togethers. I've witnessed incredible acts of kindness, I've seen people cross an ocean and nary spend a dime besides the plane ticket, and I've met some of the finest people in the world, from 4 continents. These are our core principles and should be protected. If the spite in this forum inhibits the quest for knowledge or a real meeting of folks, we are defeating the very purpose... I need to look upon the Mudcat pages and see beautiful people being happy, because that is why I do this. It's not my work that makes this such a great place (though it don't hurt), it's all of you... We are a group, a whole. We are together because we share at least some common interest. We may not all see eye to eye on everything, but the Mudcat IS the sum of all its parts. I challenge you to make it work. |
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