 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Another reincarnation story.
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 02 May 04 - 01:30 PM (I got the 100th, el ted, so forget about it) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: katlaughing Date: 02 May 04 - 01:30 PM I think BPL needs a {{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}...he's being an awfully good sport it seems....:-) kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 02 May 04 - 02:07 PM Well, I am reminded of Baby Huey, or some creature from scifi who is human in all respects, but enormously tall. On the other hand, I have no scarcity of dangly bits in my life, being equipped with my own. Maybe that's the difference. Freud had some theory or other onthe subject... :>)) A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 02 May 04 - 02:42 PM And I keep seeing pink elephants! But, yes, I suspect that BPL's name is simply an accurate description of his general skin tone...which, unlike Michael Jackson's, is not literally white. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: GUEST,freda Date: 03 May 04 - 03:59 AM It is very beautiful over there.(Thomas Edison's last words before death - what had he seen?) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Ellenpoly Date: 03 May 04 - 03:59 AM "Everyone fears death, atheists and nonbelievers in reincarnation included." I don't, LH. I do think that a fear of death often drives people to need to find something after it to believe in. I also think that the idea of death being the end is too much for a species who has the capacity to remember. The need to feel that something or someone will be left to carry on one's name, or some kind of manisfestation of one's spirit seems of tremendous importance. If one lets go of fear, then it's easier to live in the present, and the very thought that there may very well be nothing after this life is a great inducement to live fully, love completely, and never assume we'll have a second chance..xx..e |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: freda underhill Date: 03 May 04 - 07:47 AM I don't fear death. 20 years ago I was contacted once by a close friend, just after she died in a car accident. I know there is life after death. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: jacqui.c Date: 03 May 04 - 08:14 AM I don't fear being dead; but I don't look forward to the actual passage. It may be horrible, a stroke or being burned up in a fire. Anyway, to you non believers, how do you explain ghosts? Simply saying they don't exist is rubbish...they DO exist; I encountered one myself. Kendall |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: *daylia* Date: 03 May 04 - 09:15 AM Me too, jacqui. Many times over. Some say dying is a piece of cake compared to being born. And maybe it is, comparing destinations ... Fear of death? Well, to be honest of course I'm afraid -- it's a big change after all, and changes are scary. It usually feels much more comfortable to stick with the familiar than to undergo major changes in one's Hey, it may be Auchswitz, but it's home! ;-) daylia |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: *daylia* Date: 03 May 04 - 09:18 AM Oops that was supposed to read "It usually feels much more comfortable to stick with the familiar than to undergo major changes in one's mode d'etre". (way of being) daylia |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 10:00 AM What's remarkable is the number of people who do not end up being ghosts. I guess it takles a certain fixation due to trauma, or revenge-lust, or obsession with an individual or serious incomplete business of some sort. Most people seem to just make their farewells, and get on with their next transition. The actual passage (I hope) will be quick. After that I reckon on a grand adventure of some kind, just as now! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Bill D Date: 03 May 04 - 10:07 AM ummmmmmmmmmm........... "further, deponent sayeth not." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 10:18 AM I predict a surprise, brother Bill, and I wish you joy of it. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: freda underhill Date: 03 May 04 - 10:30 AM but not for a long while, hoipefully.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 03 May 04 - 11:06 AM Well, in a strictly theoretical sense, philosophically speaking, I don't fear death either, because I know I've died many times before and I'm still doing fine and it's even better in spirit than it is in a body anyway....BUT....if I barely avoid getting run over by a truck or falling off a high place, I get scared! So, it depends on how you look at it. :-) Like daylia said, we are attached to the familiar and find major changes that we weren't planning on to be disturbing... - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 11:23 AM and find major changes that we weren't planning on to be disturbing... A spirit of adventure helps deal with it. It's not likely that things are going to stay "familiar" for very long. Especially considering that the rate of change is accelerating madly. When I died near the end of World War 2, fountain pens, Bakelite phones, 3-cent stamps, and Dewey decimal cardfiles were the height of onformation processing. Before this lifetime is out, I could easily be sending holographic agents to gather information from the far corners of the cyber universe and compose my shopping lists for me automatically...or perhaps just do the shopping. Just one example. Seventy years ago you could die from a rusty nail or a bad cat scratch. Twenty years forward you'll probably be able to grow new replacements any old piece of a body you need. Heinlein wrote a wonderful book toward the end of his life along this theme, in which a couple kept finding their universe being switched on them by (apparently) a malevolent deity. All I can say is change is not gonna go away, so some way to get used to it is pretty important. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: freda underhill Date: 03 May 04 - 11:24 AM I was in a van, as passenger, driving back from a music festival on a very bumpy dirt road in the country. The van rolled as we turned a corner, I and my partner both had a seat belt on luckily as it turned right over, but as it was happening, and we were spinning through the air, I thought this was it. I found myself just watching, without any emotion at all, observing, as the landscape tumbled around us. when things happen suddenly, you never know how you'll respond. Another time i was walking home, late at night, past a park near my street. A car drove past me along the street. The guy in the car turned round and looked at me, and then stopped the car and reversed back the road at me. It was clear from the look on his face that he was coming for me, I felt totally flushed with fear, managed to run down a back street and hid behind a wheelie bin. it was a one way street, he couldnt see me, and off he went. two potentially dangerous situations, two reactions.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 11:28 AM I don't know. I think a lot of the jumpiness I have in this life is left over trauma from my manner of leaving the world in other lives. I know I have to work all of that out eventually, but if I had my druthers, I think I would like to go peacefully in my sleep this time around. Or at least peacefully, whether awake or asleep. Bill D., it's ok for us to see reality as we do, and it's also ok for you to see reality the way you do. Neither veiw really threatens the other in any way. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 12:01 PM I do wonder sometimes if little children are more in tune with these mysteries. My youngest daughter used to have long daily conversations with her sister, who died 4 years before she was born. ~b.w. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 12:21 PM Sure, they are more in tune. They don't have hteir heads cluttered up yet with constraints on what they are supposed to see, allowed to think, or limits on what it is possible to do. They are l3eft with only the pure fire of the unlimited self, seeing what it can see, so talking to a departed friend is a lot easier. Give them a few years and education and collisions in the physical universe will beat it out of them. Not to wrry.... :>) A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Ebbie Date: 03 May 04 - 01:24 PM I have very early memories- (Actually I think we all do. It's just that my family moved just enough to pin down when a certain event occurred) and I remember when I "knew" more. I no longer remember what it was but I do distinctly remember knowing more. Doesn't quite make sense to me now, though. :) I know a boy who is now about 16 years old; when he was around 2 years of age he would say things like "When I used to be a man". One of the things he said was that when he was a man he played guitar and sang. I once asked him why he stopped playing and he said, "They coldn't get me out of the airplane." One of the oddities about him was that at the age of 2, he sang very well- on pitch and with proper phrasing. His parents were well aware of people's startled comments. They said he'd been doing that since he was one year old. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 01:43 PM Extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof, and very careful investigations. As far as I know, no properly investigated reincarnation case has stood up to careful examination. And really, investigations by true believers don't count. They don't want to disprove it. ----- Aloha nui loa Mack: If you choose to believe that; be my guest. I suppose you never heard of the case at Duke University hanfled by Dr, Rhine, and had a book published about the previous life of a mid-western farmers wife that freamed of Ireland. She was hypnoticaly regressed, and gave rge name of her former life, the town she had lived in, and named the neighbors and family names. The book was titled "In Search Of Bridey Murphy" In the Tibetan Buddhist faith; advanced Lama (The Dali Lama for example) are stringently tested with a room full of similar objects, and the supposed Lama MUST identify the one object he owned in his previous incarnation. If you choose to dismiss the possibility of reincarnation; this belief id not doing you or anyone any good. Aloha nui loa Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 01:52 PM Extraordinary? As I mentioned upthread it is far more ordinary among humans at large to believe in a spiritual identity that transcends lifetimes than it is not to; those of us who hold to the view that matter is the most likely explanation of consciousness are in a dramatic minority. From an outside perspective the belief that awareness is born from molecules is a ridiculous superstition, kind of like believing that volcanic explosions are due to the wrath of the underground deities. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 03 May 04 - 01:58 PM I'm not a giant penis, although some seem to think it OK to suggest I am a big prick. I do not have a giant penis, although I can get one easily enough according to the SPAM I get in my mailbox. I am not a communist. I am not pink, I am, like all humans, a shade of brown. I do not see pink elephants, dead people or space ships even though I try really hard (no pun intended). None of your guesses as to the origins of my handle come close. Should I launch a new thread with a prize for the best guess? ;o) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 02:01 PM My skepticism is born of vast experience of charlatans, liars and con artists. It is not negativism, I see it as dutiful and a positive counter to protect in some small measure those who are open to exploitation. That said, I have no problem at all with diverse viewpoints -- I think it's a bit unfair to suggest incredulity equates to closed-mindedness. ----- Aloha nui loa BPL Skepticism is proper until the hypnotist releases the series of questions and answers to and from the person being hypnoticaly regressed. The hypnotist MUST be specific in the questions being asked. Here is an example. Please tell me about a previous life. This is a terrible question to ask because the subconscious mind (Unihipili in Hawai'ian terminology) in an attempt to be helpful will pull a previous life at random from the akashic records (this is why there are 57 people walking around believeing they were once Cleopatra). Please tell me about YOUR previous life. By changing one word changes a vague question into a very specific question with only one answer. I do not put much credence in reports of reincarnation unless the data is released. Aloha nui loa Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 02:09 PM It's not that he was destroyed (in my opinion only, you understand), it's that his body was damaged such that he could not express fully through it any longer. If you damage a radio a bit, you will get static when trying to tune in to the program. If you damage the radio a lot, you won't get any more program or any noise whatsoever from it. That does not mean that the program has been destroyed! It means that the radio has. But someone who didn't have a full understanding of what the ----- Aloha nui loa Little Hawk; my brother. Very wise and accurate analogy there! Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 02:15 PM anyone who has had an out of body experience knows that they can exist outside their body, they they do not need the body to remain conscious, to perceive. ----- Aloha nui loa Freeya (appologies if I misspelled your name) I agree completely! I used to be exactly like Bill D (a convinced athiest) until I had an OBE while meditating. That OBE gave me confirmation of life after physical death, and gave me a spiritual awakening. Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 02:26 PM By changing one word changes a vague question into a very specific question with only one answer. Well, maybe and maybe not. "Tell me about adults touching you" can come up with all kinds of plastic overlays of false memories produced inan effort to be cooperative. It depends greatly on how independent of mind the interrogee is. Otherwise they may well come up with something that is just a plastic dubbed in story designe dto satisfy a questioner. Detecting the differences is tricky, but not impossible, I suppose...For one thing for example, your assertions about what you remember are unsolicited, pretty much, and therefor emore likely to be your own than suggested by somneone else; but it is not a cut and dried thing. The plasticity of the average human mind is a very weird factor. A A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 02:27 PM Aloha nui loa LH; my brother. I was out of town April 22nd-26th to visit Michael F. You may or may not remember him from when we got together in Altanta last year. While I was around Atlanta; I also did some healings, and had the pleasure to visit a real haunted house that was so bad even the family's dog was afraid to do down stairs, so a friend and I went down there and cleansed the area. PM or E-Mail me and I will tell you more about it (if you are interested. Two Bears. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 02:35 PM I don't think you're a big prick, TBPL. But you do have a very evocative name, and as Amos has pointed out, my mind sometimes tends to dwell in the gutter. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 02:37 PM What's remarkable is the number of people who do not end up being ghosts. I guess it takles a certain fixation due to trauma, or revenge-lust, or obsession with an individual or serious incomplete business of some sort. Most people seem to just make their farewells, and get on with their next transition. ----- Aloha nui loa Amos; my brother. Based on my experiences; ghosts fall into three categories. 1. They are either attached to possessions or a place, and not willing to let go and move on. 2. they died when they were sick (fevers, strokes, etc and are not aware they are dead. 3. They will not cross over to the realm of spirit for fear they will be punished (the Damnation and hell fire version of the afterlife in the "christian religion). Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 02:45 PM Interesting observation, Two Bears! I suppose anyone can get hung up under the right conditions. I'd be pretty reluctant to cross over if I thought a heavily judgemental patriarch was waiting to weigh out all my sins, knowing and unknowing, and adjudicate my eternal fate in the manner described by some preachers!! Brrrr! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Wolfgang Date: 03 May 04 - 02:54 PM No one can say they have the answer because no one really knows (Kendall) The true believers can as they show here: That OBE gave me confirmation of life after physical death. as obvious to me at this point as the fact that sidewalks are normally made out of concrete or that frogs hop anyone who has had an out of body experience knows that they can exist outside their body I know I've died many times before I know there is life after death. I'm often wondering why people who wouldn't readily believe Fox News read Whitley Strieber and skip all usual caution. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 02:55 PM On two occassions, I've encountered ghosts who were waiting for someone just before they (the ghosts) were killed. They didn't understand that they were dead, or at least they were confused about whether or not they were still in a body, and they thought they needed to stay where they were until the people they were waiting for showed up. I've encountered quite a few ghosts over the years, and my experience has been that when things are sufficiently explained to them, they usually go where they belong. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 02:57 PM For some of us, Wolfgang, it's not so much belief, as it is being willing to trust our own perceptions more than we are willing to trust what someone else tells us our perceptions ought to be. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 03:10 PM Carol has hit it most concisely. I wouldn't buy Strieber's package of ocnclusions, but I can readily enough accept that he saw what he saw; why he saw it is another issue. Of course it is perfectly possible that what he saw was "stress-induced delusion" but I see no need to jump to that conclusion. Scientific protocol is wonderful stuff, but so is personal integrity, by which I mean knowing you have seen what you saw. There is little or no conflict between the two. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Ebbie Date: 03 May 04 - 03:18 PM BPL, let me guess: You are a big man and in the privacy of your own home you like to wear a tutu? :) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: open mike Date: 03 May 04 - 03:22 PM Jimi Hendrix winked at me from the poster on my bedroom wall ;o) You, too??!! I thought i was the only one!! it was in the living room, though. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Wolfgang Date: 03 May 04 - 03:31 PM No one is telling anybody what a perception ought to be, but perception is a construction from the input and preconceptions and and and... I wonder why some post here as if it was news to them that perception can and has been fooled. Never heard of phantom limbs, for instance? Tell these people 'if it feels real it is real' and wait for their response. personal integrity, by which I mean knowing you have seen what you saw Hm, I know what I saw in the sense that I usually remember what my percept was but I don't know for sure in all conditions that what I saw was what could have be seen under better conditions. Don't tell me you have never been fooled even for a long time by your senses. That has nothing at all to do with integrity or lack of. OBEs can be induced by electrical stimulation of a subsystem of the brain. Yes, and there are people who have had a subjectively impressing OBE and have not come to Two bears' conclusion. Kendall's wise words apply again. The same perception can lead to different ideas about a possible explanation. But I see a lot of close-mindedness here. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 03 May 04 - 04:00 PM Most people are close-minded about some things...usually because they don't know enough yet about those things or are carrying a strong prejudice concerning them. But as Carol said " it's not so much belief, as it is being willing to trust our own perceptions more than we are willing to trust what someone else tells us our perceptions ought to be." I trust my own perceptions, Wolfgang, more than I trust what you decide to tell me about them. And I am an exceedingly cautious person. I was cautious enough not to believe in God or anything else "otherworldly" (except Santa Claus for about 3 or 4 years when very young) until I was around 20 years old. This came of growing up in a very rational, scientifically-minded, atheistic family...that in their own way were: closeminded. And in case you're wondering, I never experienced a dramatic "conversion" to any religion, never got "saved" (to use the evangelical term, nothing like that. No, I just gradually opened up to an awareness of many things that I had not been prepared to open up to when I was younger, when I thought I knew everything...or that if I didn't know it, then I could find it in a science book or an encyclopedia. I started trusted myself, Wolfgang, instead of letting other authoritative sources in the World decide it all for me. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 04:19 PM I can only speak for myself, Wolfgang, but it really isn't very important to me whether or not what I perceive is what anyone besides me can accept (or can prove). I like my perceptions the way they are. They are pleasing to me and they seem to serve me well, and that's all that really matters to me. You are free to experience your life in whatever way suits you best. I am free to experience my life in whatever way suits me best. Seems to me, that's all that really matters. The way I see it, all of reality is an illusion anyway, and that includes everything that people tend to regard as "impirical" or "scientifically proven". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 04:20 PM Wolfgang: I am perfectly open to the possibility that an apparent OBE is illusory. But I am required by my sense of integrity not to assume my perceptions were other than I saw them to be, at the time; if adding more data in a good scientific sense, modifies that, well, so be it -- any model should be open to change. What a dull life it would be if I thought any model was comlete and unchangeable. I have seen enough instances of apparent violations of the "bag of skin seperate from all others" model of human nature that I am pretty sure it is flawed. If a bunch of other individuals believe I am wrong, I am open to their explanation as to why, if they have ojne that is not authoritarian. So I don't think I am close-minded. Stimulation of a brain segment producing an OOB experience is one paper I have not read -- do have easy access to the name of it or where it could be found? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 03 May 04 - 05:02 PM I'm sure there are ways of artificially stimulating a brain to have a certain perceptual experience. There is another way to so stimulate a brain that is not artificial...and that is by actually having the real experience! The existence of the former simulated method "in the lab" does not invalidate the existence of the latter actual experience "in the field". Yes, you can fool a person into thinking they are seeing a UFO or a ghost. You can also fool them into thinking they are going to win a lottery or anything else. But what if they really do see the UFO (alien vehicle), or the ghost, or whatever...? That doesn't invalidate the time when they were fooled, nor does the time when they were fooled invalidate the time when it really happened. It's "all or nothing" thinking that tends to obfuscate these discussions...and that is driven by a desire to preserve a chosen belief rather than a desire to discover the truth about anything. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: open mike Date: 03 May 04 - 05:20 PM I am trying to absorb all the posts in this thread.. or at least digest them, but I am over whelmed! There are more than enough ideas here to keep the philosphers of the world busy for eons! I do think of the way the Bahai faith describes the different stages of pre-life, life, and post-life: I once had it described to me thusly: in the womb, we are growing arms, legs, eyes, etc. for which the uses are to us yet unknown. This is similar for attributes which we acquire during life...spiritual qualities which we gain during our stay on this planet: love, understanding, caring, knowledge, etc. which will be able to be used by us when no longer in the body. The difference as described to me by the Bahai Faith, is that each soul or spirit is an individual entity, and whil continue to progress after life here, and there is no need to re-live live on this plane, but we will continue to journey towards "energy" or divine or whatever you may call it. We cannot know the full story from our small place. We can only touch the hem of the garment... only be aware of a small portion of the truth. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 03 May 04 - 05:24 PM The Bahais are wonderful people with a wonderful faith, and philosophy is a grand subject that knows no borders. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Bill D Date: 03 May 04 - 05:32 PM "I predict a surprise, brother Bill, and I wish you joy of it." ah, yes...I have no doubt that several of you who have had these 'experiences' DO wish me well and consider me sane, honest and a generally good guy, as I do you.. *smile* I do have a mostly different notion of what subjective experiences may be caused by...and of course, I 'may' be wrong....but sadly, though I would be willing to bet about reincarnation, I could never collect if I win...*wry grin*....I don't even get to say "I told you so" if I'm right. Whereas, if YOU are right, you get to tease me unmercifully forever! There just ain't no justice! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Amos Date: 03 May 04 - 06:16 PM Well, you could just change your mind, Bill. LOL!! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: CarolC Date: 03 May 04 - 06:32 PM We won't tease you, Bill. Promise ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Two_bears Date: 03 May 04 - 06:35 PM Interesting observation, Two Bears! I suppose anyone can get hung up under the right conditions. I'd be pretty reluctant to cross over if I thought a heavily judgemental patriarch was waiting to weigh out all my sins, knowing and unknowing, and adjudicate my eternal fate in the manner described by some preachers!! ---- Only reporting what I have come across. I have assisted many spirits cross over, and many of them reported they were terrified they would be punished if they crossed over. On these cases; I send mana loa to the entity until they raise their consciousness enough to see the family or friends waiting to take them home and then they are happy to cross over. It't one thing for me a stranger to say "trust me", and it's another thing to hear the same confirmation from their grandmother, an grandfather, their spouse, etc to tell them everything is OK. Two Bears |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story. From: Little Hawk Date: 03 May 04 - 06:38 PM My opinion about this is that the only harsh judgement waiting in the afterlife for people is the judgement they mete out on themselves. |
