Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:52 PM

Toads and frogs are not the same. And toads don't like their name being bandied about, either.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:31 AM

The French sometimes use the nickname "les Rosbifs" for the Brits -- entirely analagous to the vv use of "Frogs": a ref to what is traditionally regarded as a favourite in the diet of the other. I think in either case it is meant rather affectionately teasingly than offensively.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:52 AM

As a BTW -- I think both frogs' legs and escargots [snails cooked in a garlic and butter sauce], both regarded with suspicion by many Brits as items of diet, among the most delicious of dishes.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:53 AM

... so I think I can claim that, tho I may be politically conservative, I am far from gastronomically so.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:41 AM

Stunning.

Michael has a pop at the French, which lets face it is illogical, historical and fuck all to do with the reality we live in, but by bigotry standards is fairly tame.

Everybody is shouting at the old fool.

Meanwhile, Akenaton repeats his false claim that gay men carry diseases, misrepresenting clinical data he doesn't understand in order to bolster his sick claim and not a peep.

Good old fucking Mudcat.

I'll just wait for the next email from Joe I suppose....

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 04:09 AM

Well, yes, Musket, it's clear that Ake has a distorted understanding of statistics....but we've been through that before, so why bother about it? What does that have to do with conservative folksingers? I don't know if Ake is a folksinger or not. All I know is that he mustn't have done very well in Statistics class. If the rest of the general populace combined has a 0.01 percent rate and homosexuals have a 0.011 rate, the rate for homosexuals is higher - but insignificantly so.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 04:14 AM

What 'pop'? Saying I enjoy their cooking? "Och-me a pop!" as they used to say in the East End where my grandpa came from.

Trouble with you, Muskititz, is quite simple:-

You just are not right bright.

Voilà-tout...

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 04:45 AM

Funnily enough, I was pointing out that everybody is having a pop at Michael and coming over indignant that anyone could be so xenophobic yet nobody seems interested in sheer hatred as expressed by the Scottish creature.

I brought nothing up Joe. I commented on previous posts and reactions. You also seem more interested in health statistics than the concept of using them to promote bigotry. Falling right into the trap, which considering it is an argument used by The Vatican to denigrate people, isn't really surprising.

Three gay people have stopped posting on Mudcat to my knowledge because Joe Offer refuses to acknowledge hatred, saying it's free speech. Disappointing, and for that matter, goes against Max's rules for Mudcat.

Michael meanwhile fails to see that in a small way, I could be seen as defending him, if not his odious views. I'm sure nurse will explain to him after his nap.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 04:47 AM

Well, thanks a gr8-big-bunch, Popgun.

Why, with friends like you...

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 04:57 AM

That is right Joe but I was just pointing out that it was more than French intervention in North America. The British also ended up fighting the French and Spanish in the Med and eastern Atlantic as well as in the Caribbean and the French in India - plus during the conflict a related war against the Dutch also broke out. It is impossible to say one way or the other as to whether these other European powers entering the conflict ultimately swung the balance or not and eventually convinced the British to seek terms. What ifs are by their nature improvable. It was bound to have made a substantial impact though.

As to the Irish thing it was pretty similar to the Jacobite threats. The French and British were continually at loggerheads if not all out war. The 45 Jacobite Rebellion was also ultimately dependent on a French invasion which ultimately never happened. Excepting that it is debatable whether the French monarch actually really cared which member of the British royal family was on the throne anyway. Just because the French invasion never happened doesn't mean it was a complete failure for them and they were probably happy with the outcome. Their stoking the fires of rebellion in Britain meant that ultimately large swathes of the British and Hanvorian army on the continent was withdrawn from the main theater of war to defend England and regain control in Scotland. That was of great advantage to the French and strengthened their position immensely. Within a couple of years Britain and France were at peace. The British insisted that one of the terms was that France exile the Stuart Pretenders which the French were happy to concede to. The Stuarts were simply expendable pawns in a much wider French strategy as were the Irish at other times.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 06:00 AM

OK, I'm moving this to the non-music section, since the thread has very little to do with music. It's quickly denigrating into the usual squabble of the usual suspects, so I expect that it will be closed soon. I'll leave that decision to the usual moderators, since I no longer see any need for this thread to be in the music section.
-Joe-

P.S. Allan Conn, I'm enjoying your comments.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 06:01 AM

"(I suppose deliberately)ignore my point about double standards"
What double standards Ake - you mean claining to be a socialist and supporting Ukip - doesn't come more double than that
"A hard left wing government would certainly not use cut price immigrant labour to make themselves "
A hard left government wouldn't oppose immigration on any grounds and it certainly woudn't turn away refugees or suggest that they are rife with terrorists - as you have done.
Nor would they persecute significant minorities because of the sexuality they were born with - sick, sick, sick
Your's and Ukips policy of keeing them all out is eier Socialist nor human - it is extreme rightism - such stuff are Ukip and the BNP made of
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:08 AM

Jim you are just talking a lot of nonsense. The "double standards" referred to the attitude of folk club audiences and their acceptance of differing political views.
I do not support UKIP, but I am not so ideologically bound that I cannot accept some policies of alternative political parties as "sensible"
"A hard left government wouldn't oppose immigration on any grounds", cant believe you really wrote that Jim....on any grounds? now I know you have lost the plot.
No one is seeking to persecute a tiny minority (1.5% of the population) You were being referred to the rates of infection which affect that sexual minority, which the health agencies say are very significant indeed. If anyone is "sick, sick, sick," it must be the health professionals who compile these figures.

Not one UK Party wish to stop immigration altogether, and I certainly do not.....we are discussing UNREGULATED immigration from within the EU....I agree with UKIP and the other major parties that we must have a degree of control over our borders. That does not mean prohibiting everyone from entering.

You are simply becoming irrational Jim, you are obviously moving in the wrong circles. Try to avoid stalkers and anonymous guests, or usernames starting with M and ending with t......you will probably find they are all the same person. :0)

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:11 AM

as a general rule i'd say (again) the right don't make art , their purpose is to buy and sell it

i'd question if any country ever wins a war - certainly no individual involved wins anything. many folk songs are written about the poor bloody infantry, press ganged into fighting for the wealthy and powerful. such songs express a common humanity and acceptance of such matters as liberty, equality, fraternity and a love of peace. and love. all concepts routinely sneered at or mistrusted by the right wing.

if britain had shared a very long border with nazi germany, it's safe to say that we would have many collaborators - particularly among the upper classes and their gullible fools in ukip and the tory party.

ake - before you come out with this socialist nonsense again, do you still think that immigrants are responsible for the poverty and other social problems in glasgow? are you an international socialist who believes in equality and co-operation between all workers across the world. or a national socialist?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:29 AM

achmelvich, I have no idea what you are referring to, please explain.
Your contribution makes no more sense than Jim's.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:34 AM

If it's any help, I try to be a practical practicing socialist...but looking again at your last post, you don't really deserve any help.

just one large helping of Godwin's Law.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:12 AM

as far as your contributions are concerned ake - i was referring to a discussion last year about immigration when you reckoned that it was responsible for poverty and social problems in glasgow and elsewhere.
would have thought that and the rest of my post was straightforward enough. what is godwin's law? do i really want to know?

other than the possibility of peter bellamy are there any other right wing folk singers that we may have heard of?   more interestingly, why not?

i reckon billy connolly is more than a bit keen on folk music - he certainly liked the incredible string band

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:23 AM

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism. -- Widipedia

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:25 AM

WiKipedia -- fud it!

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:31 AM

it wasn't me that started it!

(Playground Law?)

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:32 AM

Thank you Michael.

Sorry achmelvich, I still have no memory of the assertions that you make; perhaps you were mistaken and are referring to the Pakistani community in Glasgow who do not in general integrate due to their Muslim beliefs?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:36 AM

BTW   ach, where have I mentioned "National Socialism", or Hitler for that matter?

I think that you just took the opportunity to be personally abusive.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 08:40 AM

"The "double standards" referred to the attitude of folk club audiences and their acceptance of differing political views."
I was referring to the fact that, as far a I am concerned, you wouldn't recognise double standards if they waddled up and bit you on the bum.
Your nonsense, about "hard left governments" of which you demanded a response, was unworthy of comment and has s.f.a. to do with folk clubs, which makes me perfectly entitled to respond in any way I see fit.
And now you are resorting to personal abuse, which you forever complain about.
Can we all have the copy of your rule book that allows such behaviour?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 09:07 AM

"BTW   ach, where have I mentioned "National Socialism", or Hitler for that matter?"
Where has anybody here, apart from yousrself?
You appear to be imagining abuse
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 09:21 AM

It was achelmevitch who did == 0711 am.

"if britain had shared a very long border with nazi germany, it's safe to say"

Why not look for yourself, Jim, instead of making baseless accusations against the wrong person? All Ake was doing was querying that from ach... I can't find anything Ake had said which gave rise to such a speculation, but ···

Oh, dear; doesn't life get complicated...

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 09:40 AM

Simples.

A socialist would support freedom of residency and work within a cohesive economy. A national socialist would want the benefits of others whilst protecting their patch for themselves regardless of how that affects others.

Don't worry, "socialist" is just a word he picks up and uses. It's why it isn't a good idea to swear when children are around.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 10:10 AM

"Why not look for yourself, Jim, instead of making baseless accusations"
We're all prone to mistakes Mike - even us 'lefties'.
Spitefulness really doesn't become you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:01 AM

" do not integrate due to their Muslim beliefs."

It gets better.

Assuming you laugh at such pathetic bigotry.

I must have beliefs then because as I have mentioned before. If you walked into a bar, I'd put my pint down, wiping my feet on the way out.

Many people have circles of friends from work. Mrs Musket being a doctor and me interfering with doctors, as it were, we have many friends either from Pakistan or first generation UK. You talk absolute bollocks, hate filled bollocks for that matter. A vascular surgeon we know still has his house in Glasgow, renting it out because once his fellowship at Sheffield ends, he plans to take his family back there. They love the place, the people and the job. As over 12% of all hospital consultant jobs are unfilled in Scotland, I doubt that will be a problem. (His youngest has a slight Scottish accent. You get that by.. err.. Integrating?)

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:03 AM

Oh dear. Sorry, Jim. 'Tactfulness' is not my middle name today.

Down the garden to eat worms -- again!

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:27 AM

" do not integrate due to their Muslim beliefs."
Wow - not another one!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:49 AM

I have a very good friend who is Indian and an orthopaedic consultant.

Does that prove or disprove anything about the integration of the Pakistani community in Glasgow?.....No, but it does go rather a long way in disproving your assertion that I am a racist?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:12 PM

"I have a very good friend who is Indian and an orthopaedic consultant."
Oh dear - "some of my best friends are....."
Now where have I heard that one before?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:22 PM

From Guest M....t 11:01 presumably?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:23 PM

"Would 'Toads' do??

How about polliwogs??"

How about you wake up and understand that frog in reference to French people is perjorative. If you ever visit Quebec, I'd suggest very strongly you avoid using the term unless you wouldn't mind swallowing your teeth or receiving a vertical trip down the St Lawrence. As for Conservatives anywhere, they have not been such for over thirty years now. All they have become is hate mongers. You proud of that?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:27 PM

Most of the Pakistani community in Glasgow have Scottish accents, none to my knowledge has Scottish wives or husbands.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 12:45 PM

Most of the Pakistani community in Glasgow have Scottish accents, none to my knowledge has Scottish wives or husbands.

Never visited Woodside Road then?

(And since when were they a "community" any more than white Rangers supporters are? They don't take orders from any heid-bummer and no institution unifies them).

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:06 PM

What his Indian doctor friend is all about I have no idea. Granted, pre 1948, we'd be splitting hairs here but I was referring to people who are of a Muslim faith whose origins are what is now Pakistan, just as the creature was before he came out with irrelevancies.

No matter, you can slag off anyone in the name of free speech eh Joe? Oh, apart from the creature, it seems.

Sorry but he really makes my skin crawl. I don't give a damn about Mudcat subjective etiquette or any other nonsense. His hate filled diatribe needs challenge and it is evident he is incapable of seeing reason so expressing contempt at least takes him at face value rather than ignoring his dim intellect, which in one way is perhaps even more insulting towards him.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:19 PM

The only "mixed faith" marriage between Muslim and Christian that I know of personally, was not in Glasgow and involved the Scottish girl giving up her religion and becoming a Muslim.

Mixed faith marriages involving Muslims must be extremely rare, see here
islamic Q&A

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:37 PM

Jack, they Do take orders from a "Heid Bummer". A Muslim friend of mine who runs a fast food shop in the city was reduced to a shivering wreck after a visit from his local "Heid Bummer" who dressed him down for some misdemeanour.
The guy pulled up in front of the shop in a snow white limo, walked straight into the back on the premises in full Islamic gear plus sunglasses.....he was well over six foot and built like a brick shithouse.....I asked my friend what had happened, he couldn't speak, just shook his head....in time with the rest of his body.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:39 PM

Oh Christ. He's confusing Muslims with fucking drug dealers now.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:40 PM

while acknowledging my own foolishness in getting involved in mentioning another contributor here - will try not to do it again - is this not a very boring and unpleasant thread drift. it was a reasonably interesting discussion about the politics of folk singers.....

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:46 PM

What's "full Islamic gear with sunglasses" when it's at 'ome?

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 01:57 PM

Did anyone take the time to read the link? It fully validates my point about the Muslim faith being an impediment to proper integration of communities.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:13 PM

Presumably what Cat Stevens wears when catching the paparazzi for a free plug.

zzzz

I do agree Achmelvich, but I just can't let hatred be propagated without challenge. That's thread drift, yes.

Full Islamic gear. Bloody hell. I'm sure there's a website or three in China saying all Scots wear kilts and blow air into a cat's arse but I doubt even he'd be the real deal.

(Further drift. The only time I've had a discussion with a Muslim over "full gear" was respectfully asking a doctor to consider not wearing a tie on ward rounds to promote good infection prevention practice. He, like me when I was in business I suppose, felt he wanted to look his best for people as respect for them.

I won, mind...)

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:28 PM

What an ugly bloody thread this has become.
Guest.. you said,,,, Conservatives anywhere have become hate mongers. What a bigoted, stupid and hateful thing to say you self righteous arse. To write off millions of decent people in that way is as nasty a comment as I have seen on this forum. Where do you get the right to make those kinds of comments. I know a lot of conservative people, none as narrow or as ignorant as you. Comments like yours are a bloody disgrace, and you are a liberal .Sad, truly sad.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:31 PM

"Did anyone take the time to read the link? It fully validates my point about the Muslim faith being an impediment to proper integration of communities."
In my personal experience, of all communities, Muslims are the among the friendliest people I ever encountered while working as a self-employed tradesman in London.
I felt far more comfortable discussing my atheism with them than I ever have with a practicing Christian.
NON INTEGRATED MUSLIMS
NON-INTEGRATING BRITISH MUSLIMS
AND AGAIN
ONE MORE TIME
WANT MORE?
Don't knpw what planet you occupy Ake, but to be honest - if I was gay or Musliim or a liberal (or even Hilary Carter) you are the last person I would want to integrate with (or live next door to).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:37 PM

Hilary Clinton, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:43 PM

As long as it's not Hilary Benn! :0)

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:54 PM

HiLo, get stuffed you arrogant POS.

Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 03:21 PM

Intelligent response. You have made some truly hateful comments. There are millions of people who are conservative, they are not near as bigoted as you. Your tactic is to attack me, or anyone else who does not agree with your nasty world view. And what do you call that.... Ah, yes, being,liberal. What a Joke.