BS: London Riots

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:02 PM

"There are currently 500 plus wrecking houses in Clapham."

Where does it say this?

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:19 PM

"Lox what planet are you on tonight."

It would help if you learned how to read.

I'll help.


Q. "A lot of people showing up. Then a few aholes doing the damage?"

A. No, not a lot, but ALL doing damage.


Understand? .... I doubt it.


That's all you're getting from me.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:26 PM

Quote from a police officer who worked 24 hours yesterday and 16 today ...

"It can feel a bit thankless at the moment, to be honest," said one officer with ten years experience. "It seems that the blame is coming at the police from all sides. But all the officers here would much rather be at home with their families than having bricks chucked at them." ...

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:31 PM

Apparently in Manchester as well. I've never been more disappointed in my generation than right now. It beat the student thing as well.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:45 PM

Sort of makes you long for the days of the Hippies, don't it?

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:47 PM

I can find no reports of clapham homes being targeted...

... All the shops in the area were looted (and i mean all) and there was fear that there could be a gas explosion which prompted fears that an evacuation could be necessary ...

It seems pretty clear now that whatever political motive there might have been has become completely overshadowed by this wave of random wanton destruction.

Any Pattern that there might have been has been eclipsed by looting of small businesses left right and centre and muggings.

Its calm here in this part of the south east now, but there is no knowing how this could progress now ...

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:03 PM

Not in Manchester (at least, not in any great detail).

Writing out words about this before bed.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:40 PM

Forget what I said about protest. This is something else. Amazing scenes.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:45 PM

Too late now - It's gone too far beyond mere understanding, analysing, and theorising the root socioeconomic causes
of mass hysteria delinquent behaviour..

Face up to the sick grim reality legacy of Thatcher's sink estate grandchildren..
Decent civilisation will unhappily be forced to consider Rubber bullets and steel toe capped military boots
applied surgically to rioters and looters knee caps.

Broken legs are far more effective than any Asbo or Electronic Tag.
in keeping uneducable cretinous thieving thugs off the streets
for 2 or 3 months or more...

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM

I wrote a quick piece on it.

Now bed. Hopefully I won't wake to the smell of ash.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Songwronger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:05 PM

Someone, might have been Alfred Hitchcock, said civilization is a thin crust over an anthill.

And someone on another forum said: Gaddafi has just recognized the rioters as the legitimate government of the UK and wants Cameron to step down.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:36 PM

The spontaneous outbreak of the violence is said to be the result of the murder of a young man inside a taxi by the police.

Knowing the backstory of this incident or similar incidents seems important.

Violence degenerating into looting is a consequence of opportunistic criminals and not the central story.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:57 PM

No fine worded academic excuse or justification for any or this incoherent moronic street terrorism..

Deputy Prime Minister Clegg is an self deluded ineffectual tool
who needs to wake up tomorrow with a clearer vision
of his own responsibility for failing to prevent all this utterly predictable
brutish orgiastic apocalyptic mayhem..

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Songwronger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM

Britain (like the U.S.) is being choked by politicians preaching "austerity." So police cutbacks are made, violence ensues, and then the country supports hiring more police.

Meanwhile, to pay for the police, your pensions will have to be cut and your taxes raised.

This looks suspiciously like a government-orchestrated fiasco.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:44 PM

Pull up the Drawbridge
retreat into the exclusive protective safety or your elite Gated Communities...


David Cameron


One step forward into the Hi Tech media enriched 21st Century
Two steps backwards into the brutish stab & burn feudalistic dark ages

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:54 AM

Adolescent dick heads pumped up on testosterone, adrenaline, and peer pressure bravado..

We all been there and fell foul to our base destructive urges at some point in our youth..

Teds

Rockers

Mods

Skins

Suedes

Punks

New Romantics [.. errrmmm.. well... maybe not....]

Gangstas

Ladettes

Hooray Henries

etc etc etc




Tonight is the no going back turning point in socio cultural historic pressure cooker blowing it's lid off end of civilisation

As predicted by the likes of me well over 30 years ago !!!!


not gloating.. just scared.. very deeply sincerely terrified
as to how far society will be willfully destroyed in the next few short years...????

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 01:10 AM

Innocent victims will surely be found dead ???

Burnt to death in their beds ???

These thuggish thieving juvenile fuckwits have no sense of concious or consequence of their out of control idiot actions..



These mobs are not motivated by social injustice

They are not politicised

They have no noble cause that justifies a means to an end

they are just dangerously parasitic human detriment that the world would be better off without..

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Harry Brown
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 01:18 AM

detriment.. detrius.. ??

sorrry too angry for words..

maybe I'm trying to be too clever
and dress up my feelings with big words ??? ..

Frankly they are just irredemable stinking shit human beings of no present or future value !!!

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 02:58 AM

And they hide their faces under hoods - nancy boys, every last one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:17 AM

One sad aspect of all this is that no doubt the parents or grandparents of the rioters arrived in the UK with the eager anticipation of a better and more comfortable way of life, and unlimited opportunity for their children.

It's going to be a long haul back from the present situation, but until we can address the reasons why black boys are statistically the lowest attaining group in education, we are only papering over the cracks.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:17 AM

Strange how the lefties are remaining quiet on this thread. Yes we have the resident nut job LX talking SH 1 T as usual, but read some of the comments of support for similar actions by students in London a few months ago here.

www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=133440&messages=217

So how can these members in the attached thread openly express support for mob violence in London a few months ago, and now they are conspicuous by their absence.

Clearly they supported the mindless violence by students and union members in a "so-called" protest as you can read, but what about these poor underprivileged chappies from broken homes in "deprived" areas of London ?

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:36 AM

What I can't understand is why everyone - especially Cameron's mob - is so surprised. It gives me no pleasure to say that I predicted something of this sort on this board months ago. If an incompetent government creates the conditions for anarchy, that's what will happen. We get the usual righties here who have never got of their smug, self-satisfied arses and actually seen what has been happening to our society. The sense of hopelessness on sink estates is palpable. History shows that riots don't have to have any logic behind them - just a general feeling of injustice that is sparked by an often totally unrelated incident.

I was talking to my son and he told me that the morale and motivation in the police force is at an all-time low and they have no stomach for going out there and risking their safety to clear up the mess created by incompetent and ignorant politicians - especially when their own contracts of employment have, effectively, been torn up and their pay and conditions devastated, In fact, it seems that there is talk of the police themselves taking industrial action. So what would happen then? Will we have the army (do we still have an army?)facing the police at demonstrations?

So, to all those righties who have been vilifying anyone less fortunate than themselves as scroungers and wasters (and worse), maybe those people are now thinking that they have nothing to lose.
So be afraid...be very afraid. I know I am.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:37 AM

Sorry lads, but I'm on the left and knew a couple of years ago we were in the shit......the facade had to crack and I'm just surprised it took so long.

We've been living in fairyland politically and socially

I think many of the young folks have just realised that they have no future.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:39 AM

Dickhead, even the Daily Telegraph recognises the contributing factors.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html


And the classic effect of rioters ruining their home areas is (or should be familiar) from the Watts riots.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:42 AM

haha....and, right on cue again, we have our new resident rightie, Bluesman, (welcome back Blackie Blackshirt) who doesn't even have the balls to be a Mudcat member, talking the usual mindless right wing shit. So what are you advocating tis time, Bluesman? Hanging? Flogging? National swervice? Come on, give us all another laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:23 AM

I honestly believe we will see the army on the streets of London by the weekend. The police simply can't cope. It is all well and good interviewing community leaders and churchmen and listening to endless condemnations. Parents, youth leaders, members of the BPA all need to ask their children to account for their movements and introduce a curfew if necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:26 AM

"arrived in the UK with the eager anticipation of a better and more comfortable way of life,"
Has it been established that all the rioters are from ethnic minorities? - not on my television it hasn't.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:27 AM

Ja, selbstverstandlich, befehl ist befehl.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:37 AM

My last was aimed at Bluesman, not Jim.

Incidentally, who should we be following on twitter to see this as it develops - I saw of Chatham before it happened because some young friends of mine had it up on facebook, but that will not work to predict Maidstone or Bluewater... (although I now thing that Bluewater would be an unwise target because it's hard to "melt away" from there).

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:43 AM

"I honestly believe we will see the army on the streets of London by the weekend."

Judging by what happens in garrison towns on a Saturday night, they should feel quite at home. Plus, of course, the areas where the riots are happening have, traditionally, been a fertile recruiting grounds for squaddies.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:45 AM

Try #londonriots on Twitter.

This is all very similar to something London has seen before - the Gordon Riots of 1780. But you do have to go back that far to find a parallel.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:53 AM

These rioters should have their arms broken and set behind their backs.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 04:59 AM

Leveller, what is "National swervice" is it a film about a horse or a government owned racing car ?

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:25 AM

No, it's the government doing one of its now-familiar U-turns.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:39 AM

I honestly believe we will see the army on the streets of London by the weekend."
Right on - seems to be working a treat for Lybia and Syria.
"My last was aimed at Bluesman, not Jim."
Thanks Richard - didn't think for a minute......!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:40 AM

Quite. Their more privileged contemporaries are in uniform doing exactly the same thing to Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya so the poor things feel left out.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:42 AM

Looks like the inner-city unrest has spread to the Folk Community. Indeed some of the comments here are far more worrying than the stuff we're seeing hyped up on TV right now, which as Folkloric Misrule goes is as Traditionally English as fish & chips, garden gnomes and cheese rolling. Calls for broken arms, however, is one histrionic middle-English reaction too far, though just as traditional I suppose in terms of pure chiz.

And who the hell is Harry Brown? This is one thread where some judicious pruning from our poor Over-Worked Mudcat Riot Mods wouldn't go amiss if only to help keep things in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:42 AM

...a gangster who fired a gun at police officers trying to arrest him was shot...

That version of what happened is open to question. It has been reported that the only firing was by the police, and there are eye witnesses who say they say Duggan was pulled out of the car and shot while on the ground.

Rushed reports on incidents like this,including statements by the police, have to be viewed with extreme caution - as in the case of Jean-Paul de Menenzes. And that can have disastrous consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:54 AM

The available evidence concerning Duggan seems to be that:

1. He was in possession of a working gun.

2. The police fired two shots, one of which got lodged in a police radio and the other of which killed Duggan

3. The Police have made no claim that Duggan fired at them first.

4. The Marksman who shot Duggan feared that his life was in Danger.


Thats the information that the police have provided.

Also, the IPCC are investigating Duggans gun to see if any bullets were fired in the incident.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Lox
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:57 AM

As for police Tactics, its pretty clear that they won't be repeating the mistakes of the 80's.

And its pretty clear that they won't have to.

The amount of CCTV and private video footage of looters means that they can easily be rounded up by day as they get their beauty sleep.


Harry Brown? What a clown!

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:01 AM

Some "marksman" who managed to shoot a police radio!

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: mayomick
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:20 AM

This Tottenham man -sorry geezer- seems to be speaking very reasonably about the lead up to last weekend's riots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQHWwEpwAY&NR=1

I can't understand why someone who can speak as well as this isn't a regular face on British TV . Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:21 AM

The result of all this will be a boost to the economy, all the places that have been burned down will be rebuilt employing lots of people.
sorry if this sounds cynical but it is a fact, this is the way the capatalist system works, look at all the rebuilding after the war
My sympathies go to anyone or any of the relatives of anyone injured or killed.
who is to blame?
probably a number of people including the police ,the rioters, the government and a system that is based on dehumanising people.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:35 AM

Part of the problem in the leadup was that people did not (and apparently still do not) understand that once the IPCC is involved the police themselves cannot - are not allowed to - comment.

But the disaffection IMHO goes deeper and has gone on for longer than the interviewee said.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: mayomick
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:59 AM

Richard, Perhaps some comment to that effect from somebody who wasn't a policeman - maybe from the IPCC- on the steps of Tottenham police station Friday night would have made some difference .Instead the police seemed to have been intent on sending out a tough message to the peaceful group of protesters.

"Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?"
"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
"Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Ringer
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:04 AM

"It is surely true that the overall trend in the UK and the USA for 30 years has been for the rich to get richer and the poor poorer." Richard Bridge 08 Aug 11 - 12:10 PM

Where is your evidence for that, Richard Bridge? Don't you mean, "...for the rich to get richer and the poor to get richer, too?"

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:12 AM

No. I mean that the gap between the rich and poor has massively increased in both absolute and relative terms.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:17 AM

Here we go. I knew it wouldn't be long before the clowns arrived and started blaming the police.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:30 AM

"Where is your evidence for that, Richard Bridge? Don't you mean, "...for the rich to get richer and the poor to get richer, too?" "

You might like to consider this evidence, Ringer:

•Nearly 4 million children are living in poverty in the UK (after housing costs)
•The proportion of children living in poverty grew from 1 in 10 in 1979 to 1 in 3 in 1998. Today, 30 per cent of children in Britain are living in poverty.
•The UK has one of the worst rates of child poverty in the industrialised world
•The majority (59 per cent) of poor children live in a household where at least one adult works.
•40 per cent of poor children live in a household headed by a lone parent. The majority of poor children (57 per cent) live in a household headed by a couple.

Subject: RE: BS: London Riots
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:58 AM

Bring on the Water Cannon!