BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.

Subject: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:25 AM

Worrying situation is happening at local council level when BNP candidates are being voted on. At the moment there is five councillors nationally but there is a threat of more to follow. How does the rest of the world see this trend? For those who wish to view their and other sympathetic parties literature go to natfront.com. But please be warned, their aims and ambitions I feel, are totally unacceptable in a democratic Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Raedwulf
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 02:44 PM

In a democratic Britain, they are as entitled to be heard as anyone else. Otherwise what price democracy & free speech? Personally, I think they're morons. I am of the opinion that the number of votes they receive is directly proportional to the dissatisfaction of voters with the activities of the three main parties.

To be be blunt, I'm not the least bit worried about the Blinkered Nincompoop Pillocks. The average council has 50+ elected members. Even if all 5 BNP members were on one council they wouldn't have any noticeable influence on policy, & history shows that they tend to lose their seats at the next opportunity...

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Cobble
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:46 PM

If you dont want them get of your arse and VOTE. Dont lecture the people who voted, lecture those who sit on there arse and MOAN.

                Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: stevetheORC
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM

Voting should be made compulsary, it should also be made easier for people to vote.


Orc

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:08 PM

Germany has periodic resurgences of right-wing voting which, I'm relieved to say, have invariably foundered, mostly on the eventual self-destruction of the parties and people involved. Mostly, their proven incapability of sustained effort, negativism, and a penchant for quarreling among themselves and forming factions swiftly discredited them even to their own voters. Still, though most of their followers may be, the leaders are by no means morons, and need to be watched closely and spoken out against at every opportunity. Maybe people in Germany, with its history of national socialism (whose avowed aim it was to reach power by 'legal' means - and they did, because the Weimar democracy allowed them the scope to do so), are less complacent than other European nations can afford to be in the face of right-wing extremism. However, I can but second Cobble's opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: C-flat
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:31 PM

This new support appears to be born out of a percieved lack of a sensible immigration policy from the government. Stories are spread about how immigrants and asylum seekers are recieving preferential treatment, although it wouldn't suprise me if the BNP were behind the stories in the first place.
They may be nothing more than boot-boys in suits but the leaders of the BNP are not stupid and see this as their best moment to gain votes from an ill-informed and uneasy section of society.
It's an ugly trend and everyone should be aware of exactly what they stand for and vote them back into the political sewer they emerged from.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:44 PM

British Nazi Party?

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Brakn
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:55 PM

The daily papers in England are so right wing, so why are you surprised?

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Llanfair
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:09 PM

There's a nest of them near here, and they attempt to hold rallies (Family Days) in the summer. Lots of police in evidence, hardly anyone shows!!!

They did put leaflets through the doors soon after we moved here which stated that the holocaust wasn't real, made up as propaganda.

Bit scary really!!!

Cheers, Bron.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:43 AM

Ebbie -- N for National, but it's the same root.And the same ideals.

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Pushkin
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 09:22 AM

At the last local elections I believe that the borough that the Orc and I live in (Bexley), had more BNP candidates standing than anywhere else in the country!!!   Mind you, I don't think any of them got in.   

Pushkin

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 06:59 PM

Redeye. This is not your country so who we vote for is not your business. Although I don't like the BNP, they seem no worse than the Sinn Fein.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 07:32 PM

If the only racists around were the people in the BNP that'd be great, because there aren't that mnay of them.

The trouble is that the racists and opportunists in the other parties use any hint of electoral success by them as a way of swinging their own party into line.

And one effect of that is that it makes the BNP seem less extreme, and brings them in from the cold.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Grab
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 07:39 PM

Yep. The BNP, Orange Lodge, and anyone else who looks down on others based on family history can all toddle off to hell on the same handcart.

Frankly, I ain't too worried about the BNP. They're their own worst enemies. All it takes is one or two councillors to get elected, then they get pictures of skinhead thugs on TV and the BNP electoral support goes down like a stone bcos it scares the hell out of everyone. Perversely, I actually think it could be a good thing that the BNP exist - when some neo-Nazi comes up on the polls, it scares ppl into getting out and voting against them! ;-) Now if only ppl would do the same every election...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Brendy
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 07:45 PM

"...All it takes is one or two councillors to get elected...", and then they hold the balance of power.

Look what it did for the Ulster Unionists.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 07:54 PM

They only hold the balance of power if the other parties are willing to play ball with them. Which of course happens.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Brendy
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 11:23 PM

It isn't a phenomenon that is restricted to England, unfortunately.
In Norway, there is a 'Progressive Party', that wean quite a lot of (especially) the older voters away from their Labour roots, by promising everything Labour does not, while accentuating already held fears that their heritage and culture is under attack.

It is National Socialism, and it is rampant in Europe.
They are small parties (although the Norwegian one came 3rd in the recent County Council elections... and the word is that they could also lead the next Government), but with their ordinary 'policies' not that far removed from centre-left thinking, it affords them the platform to be able to point the blame for among other things, the rising crime rates, at the uncivilised outsider.

These politicians do not speak with the equivalent of an Eastenders accent. Nor do they support Millwall. They have honed their patter to make what they're saying seem almost plausible.
Were the BNP to develop that kind of finesse, one could have a lot of confused and undecided people out there.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: GUEST,Rede Eyw
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 02:14 AM

Redeye. This is not your country so who we vote for is not your business.

Guest. I pay my taxes, my council tax and NIC's and I am fully entitled to vote in 'your' country. And as a member of 'your' country I am fully entitled to my own opinion. Wether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 02:58 AM

I agree - although I too am (quite rightly) not entitled to vote in your country, Redeye. One of the major influences on the world economy at the moment is the spiralling US Budget Deficit. That has cost me work. I feel entitled to say what I like about American politics - especially as I have frequently met US citizens who know less about the subject than I do.
I am always impressed when someone who comes into our country knows something about our politics. In the case of Americans - I am very gratified. I like them a lot better than natives who are indifferent to politics anywhere inside or outside their country.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Partridge
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 05:11 AM

We have just had a council bi-election, the elected labour candidate resigned and stood again as an independant. The BNP were voted in. They are very clever, they look for local issues that are not being addressed by the main parties (and here lies the real problem). There leaflets are very good and I cannot blame people for being taken in. What people don't realise is that they are a racist party. They want to send back all asian, afro carribean to there "own" countries. In areas of London - Tower Hamlets I think, where they were voted in, racial attacks increased by 300%. I have worked very hard for the last 6 months to make people aware of the BNP real policies. The fight goes on...........

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: harvey andrews
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:23 AM

It's not just the BNP it's so many others. In Europe I had two conversations with ex pats I was introduced to. Within a minute they'd brought up the subject of "Asylum seekers and immigrants" "we're being swamped"and "Enoch Powell was right". Then recently I had two conversations with new people back home and the same thing happened. It was as though it was a bonding mechanism, as though they were saying "You're English too so you're bound to agree".
When I disagreed and quoted statistics, facts etc they were most discombobulated and didn't want to know. I'd broken an unspoken code evidently.
These people were perfectly pleasant otherwise.It's depressing and much more common it seems to me than it used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:04 AM

Ah! But how do these racist groups propose to send people back?

Lots of people in ethnic minorities are 2nd or 3rd generation.

And there's others whose ancestry may include mixed race or out of culture liaisons.

And where would they draw the line?

If I examine my own family line, there's a good proportion of Irish lineage & also some German sprinklings.

A close fiend's heritage includes Lithuanian, English & Irish.

How could we be sent back?- Where to?

& if everyone in Britain got sent back, the country would be uninhabited!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: The Barden of England
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:24 AM

The BNP have nicked my country's flag and turned it into a symbol of hatred. Now if I try and celebrate St.George's Day I'm accused of being racist. It's the English flag for a start, not the British flag. I am not, never have been nor intend to be racist, the only race I have any fears of is the BNP! May they rot!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: smallpiper
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 09:55 AM

Mr Happy the Nazis had the same problem in Germany their solution - kill anyone not of pure race, end of story. Personally I think the BNP evil and should be treated as such.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Partridge
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 10:53 AM

While out leafleting in Heckmondwike against the BNP I was pushed and shouted at by their members, they then took my photo along with my friends who were also leafleting. Some of my friends have appeared on redwatch luckily I must not have been so photogenic as I'm not there, but it is worrying.

I think they have evil tendencies, but some of them just follow and don't really understand what the party is about

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 11:01 AM

They use the Union Jack as well, I believe, and generally I feel, that in that kind of context, that has a much more threatening feel than the English flag does.

I haven't a clue what country Redeye comes from or lives in, and don't feel it's in any way relevant. Racism anywhere concerns us all, wherever we are. (Of course none us us have a clue what planet or species "GUEST" belongs to.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 11:20 AM

Considering the amount of intermarriage between English and Irish communities, there really would be some demographic changes to the UK if we "sent back" all those who were not more that two or three generations English. It would quite likely lead to one or two unexpected deportations among the racists themselves!
I think it is receding now, but one of the few places in Europe where the extreme right got any real hold on power recently was Austria. I think that would baffle anyone who looked through the Vienna phone book.
Racism and idiots like the BNP are not going to disappear overnight. There are going to lose though, because they have no chance against the tide of history. Most European sports teams include black players nowadays. Indeed it would be unthinkable not to. Some things have changed for the better and will continue to improve. The BNP is a bit like flu. It's nasty, but it can usually be shaken off.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Gareth
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 02:18 PM

Hmmm ! - Disconcerting though spasmodic support for the BNP is, I do not think that we have reached panic stations yet.

That excellent reaserch magazine "Searchlight" Click Here gives a fair sumation of the history of the BNP and it's precursors.

A little time spent here will help put the matter into perspective.

It is noticable that where you have had political parties in power, unopposed for to long, and where candidates (= hence Councillors) sole rsponsability is to the selectorate, and not to the electorate that decay and disilusionment sets in giving windows of opportunity to fringe partys.

The solution is to rengage with the public and counter the 'rumour mills'.

Now just for a test here are two bits of text I extracted from the net a few weeks ago.

1/. "We are faced with a situation now were we are getting tidal waves of migration, inward migration into our rural areas from XXXXXX and these people are coming here to live to establish themselves here, and to influence our communities and our culture with their own"

and

2/. "On current demographic trends, we, the native XXXXXX people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the XXXXXX people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration,"

One of these bits of Text was culled from the Website of the BNP.
Which one ? And where does the other bit of text come from. What are the "missing" words ?

I'll post the answers in 24 hours or so.

Feel free to PM me with yer answers, if any 'Catter can identify both quotes and the missing words there's a virtual pint in it.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:19 PM

Let's send everybody back, all over the world!

Hmmmm-Now let me see, there's all the celts, well they can go back to europe somwhere.

Then there's the Irish-they're scattered about all over the place!

In fact there's more Irish living elsewhere than there are in Ireland!

We can send back all those rapin', pillagin' vikings back to Disneyland & Israelites can go back to former soviet socialist republics, & Germany.

Then the Palestinians can be sent back to Israel & the territory can be renamed 'Pale Stein'.

All the takeaway folk can be repatriated to Hong Kong, Territories, & Taiwan & all the Brit drunks'll starve- cos all the Turks,Cypriots & Greeks won't be in their fast food outlets anymore- cos they'll be on their way back to-Cos?

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:30 PM

Lettuce spray!

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:37 PM

Slanty writing= " lets send everybody back.
As my ancestory is English,Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Danish, where would they send me "back" to? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Partridge
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:53 AM

The second text is from the BNP website the missing word is british.

Is the other text from Guardian?

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Paul Mitchell
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 07:57 AM

I currently work in local governament, although not one with BNP Councillors in it.

Word is that these BNP councillors are simply ineffective in the real political world of the Council chamber. They don't turn up much, and when they do they don't say much (if anything). One theory is that they are simply waiting to get accustommend to the political world, another is that they really don't know what they're doing once they gain any sort of power.

However, the message is simple. On local issues these people really aren't being effective at representing local peoples views. You need to do more than just get elected!

The rise of the BNP does cause some concern for those working in local government. Who wants to work with closet nazi's? However, if they are elected, then the conclusion is the voters want them there. So Council Officers have to work with them. An uncomfortable situation to be in, and I feel for those officers involved in such scenarios.

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: AliUK
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 11:12 AM

Dear Harvey,
    as an ex-pat who went back to the UK in 2001 with my Brazilian wife. I was on the shitty end of the stick when it came to British Beauraucracy ( as I have stated elsewhere in this forum). I am not a racist, but I did see prefferential treatment of asylum seekers in the UK. My sin was that I had not been resident in the UK for more than 7 years, my adopted country welcomed me with open arms. I can vote and do vote ( that´s why we have a Labour Party President in Brazil), but was denied this when I was in England in the aforementioned year. I´m not saying Enoch was right, as I think that everybody has the same rights anywhere in the world, but I object to being treated as a 5th class person in my own country, where those who have absolutely nothing to connect them to it are given every priviledge and right under international law. i know about the camps, I am not entirely stupid. But this is because of British policy and not cruelty. There are just too many of them. Unfortunately I shall not ever go back to the UK. My experience when I was there over seven months was not good. I love the people and history of my country but I for one was not made welcome.]
If this sounds bitter, I´m sorry. I am in no way a racist, I believe in a multi-cultural society ( I live in one of the best in the world), but The English in England are definitely third class citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Gareth
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 07:20 PM

Answer to the question.

The missing words are "English" and "British"

The second quote is from the BNP website.

The first is from Plaid Cymru -The party of wails.

The McGrath got it within 16 minutes in a PM.

Thats a pint I owe the old ***** !

Partridge came close. 'Er 'ow come you've got the BNP site so well marked ???

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 11:09 PM

Some years ago, the city of Pittsburgh let the Ku Klux Klan speak on the steps of the City County building. Their language was AWSOMELY foul. They would have made a Marine drill sergeant blush.
Which meant, of course that the TV news and the local papers couldn't quote them.
If members of the BNP find their way on the local council they will have to focus on maintaining the sewers, filling in potholes, making sure the garbage is collected, and assorted other mundane concerns that have nothing to do with race.
If they're as stupid as I think they are, they'll fall all over themselves and look like morons. Which will not do the BNP any good at all. Slimy, crawly things don't do well in the daylight.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 02:41 AM

I am sorry Ali UK, but I do have a problem with your attitude. You are not more British than immigrants who choose to enter the country which you chose to leave. You should not be surprised if they get preferential treatment to you. Is the UK really your own country?
If I ever return to the UK, I will expect to be at he back of the queue for priveleges when I get there. Of course I would not have the right to vote for some time. Somebody who chose to enter Britain would have to wait for seven years for full citizenship to have the right to vote. How can I claim to me more entitled to the right to vote than that person?
I was not humiliated by Thatcher's Poll Tax and I did not have to live through the misery she inflicted on our country. For that reason, I do not consider myself entitled to the same rights as those who stayed on and kept the country alive. When you leave a queue, you rejoin it at the back.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: GUEST,Porkie
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 09:36 AM

JohnfromHull - it would have to be Denmark. I've seen the signs in the supermarkets "Danish back"

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: AliUK
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 06:02 PM

alanabit,
well I was there during the thatcher years and saw what a waste of time some of the things we did were. I was there at Trafalgar Square and MArched with the miners. I picketed shell and Jaffa to get the same rights I had as a citizen for those in South Africa. I stood up and was counted amongst the rest of those who were trying to fight for what was theres´ by right. Personally I am against any policy of closed borders and preferential treatment, I left Britain because I was disenchanted with it´s lacklustre attitude to the rights of anybody. But to find that things have swung the other way completely...All or nothing is what I´m really trying to say.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 08:28 PM

Ah, if we are talking about being against preferential treatment for anyone, I am right with you. I (perhaps mistakenly) got the impression that you expected to join the benefits / housing queues ahead of other immigrants. I can't contradict you on whether or not things have swung the other way, because I have no real first hand experience of UK life any more.
Regards, Alan.

Subject: RE: BS: The Rise of the BNP in Britain.
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 10:11 AM

Brendy - 01 Oct 03 - 11:23 PM

It isn't a phenomenon that is restricted to England, unfortunately.
In Norway, there is a 'Progressive Party', that wean quite a lot of (especially) the older voters away from their Labour roots, by promising everything Labour does not, while accentuating already held fears that their heritage and culture is under attack.

It is National Socialism, and it is rampant in Europe. - REALLY???

What Brendy omits to mention is that as far as Norway is concerned, in the recent (15th September) elections he referred to, two parties did unexpectedly well the FrP (Progressive Party) and the SV (Socialist Venstre) a party as much to the left as the FrP are to the right. Norway has 21 registered political parties and be-devilled as they are with the combined drawbacks and blessings of a system that embraces proportional representation, it is highly unlikely that the FrP will ever form a government that would hold any sort of majority. It would be part of a coalition, they have been before, and that coalition would have to rule by concensus not dictat.