BS: Let's talk about the US election

Subject: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:40 AM

WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED? How could you America? How could you make this sociopathic megalomaniac the most powerful man on earth? Do you no longer love democracy, fairness, civility, humanity? For the world will barely be recognizable in four years. An independent Ukraine will no longer exist. Europe may try to keep her afloat without us but when Trump and his Republican allies (they will win both houses of the legislative and with a 6-3 Supreme Court, they will have a complete hammerlock on our government) not only abandon Ukraine but betray her to the true ruler of America, Vladimir Putin, there is little hope for Ukrainians. When Xi Jinping sees that he will be salivating over conquest of Taiwan, with the US standing back to watch it happen. If you think Gaza is a disaster now, it will get worse. Trump has already stated that he will give Netanyahu whatever he needs to accomplish his goals in Gaza. Bebe's goal for Gaza is complete de-palestination. When we withdraw from all environmental protocols at the behest of the major corporate polluters the rest of the world will have no choice but to follow suit. We were already at the tipping point on climate change. Iould go on but I'm worn out by what I just witnessed.
I feel like I've been hit by a truck. I am confused. sick to heart and terrified. And I've never been more ashamed to be an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:56 AM

Much as I find Trump a crass personality, is a mistake to judge or pre judge a governments policies,before they have even taken office
What happens next is speculation.
At the present moment in time, Germany is occupied by USA army, the idea that Russia is going to invade Germany whilst the USA ARMY is in occupation is very unlikely, whoever wins the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:00 AM

If US has ever been worthy of any respect, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, they have just flushed it into the cesspit. Well, if they want a racist, misogynist, criminal as a leader it proves that Americans have not evolved enough to call themselves part of humanity. Lets hope the rest of the world turns its back upon the cesspit and leaves it to rot over the next four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:07 AM

US has two months to get trump behind bars for four years before it has a chance to take office.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:10 AM

SPB racism etc has occurred before in the USA remember McCarthy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:17 AM

Look at some of Trumps promises - mass deportations, revenge, retribution. I suppose back street abortionists will be rubbing their hands with glee. Netanyahu, Orban and their ilk have already expressed their delight, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:21 AM

on the other hand if he puts taxes on British goods, it may put pressure on Starmer to negotiate with th EU or even rejoin eu or negotiate trade deals

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:22 AM

The political and economic shock will make the UK economic and social recovery after 14 years of tory misrule and corruption that much harder, no doubt Badenoch is over the moon as this will be something that the tories will no doubt blame Labour for.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:23 AM

There's this debate recently on Youtube going over the arguments for and against Harris and Trump. Conducted by intelligent articulate and relatively peaceful people. There is a lot there. Too bad the original Pres thread has been shut down. Reminds me of what happened to the Washington Post recently when the powers that be decided that endorsement was going too far. Anyhow, this mini-thread can be appended to the original if desired.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:32 AM

I linked to an article in The Economist on the original thread which endorsed Harris but gave what was, to my mind, a fair synopsis of the good and bad points for both candidates. It was poo-pooed but a reread of it gives me hope that not all is lost. It will be difficult to keep the mad dog on a leash for 4 years but, unlike our own Brexit madness, this will be reversed at the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:38 AM

America voted an Immigrant family to the White House.
An old man 78 years old who is going end up like Biden unless someone take him out like they did with Presedent Biden.

Looking from oustside well then I
Say this, be careful what you wish for
USA no one is what he seems to be.

This is a sad day for Plannet Earth.

Have good day
All the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:53 AM

Well said, Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:56 AM

We can hope that he now loses interest and goes off to play golf, leaving the grown ups to run the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:11 AM

Project 2025 is the plan written by a group of conservatives including (I read)former advisors of Trump; he has disclaimed it…

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Just because he disavowed Project 2025 while running because of how popular it was doesn't mean he won't embrace it as president. Remember how every single Supreme Court justice stated under oath during the vetting process that they considered Roe vs Wade settled law and had no intention to overturn it. Then the first chance they got they overturned it because they are liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:11 AM

Message from Herself:

I write poems which I often recite on the monday mudcat sing around and sometimes I get Martin to post them on the poetry thread. I had an idea for one which I call Riding the Night Mare about the possibility, now reality of a second trump presidency. However I am already starting to self censor and will now only feel safe to share it with trusted friends. This may be an over reaction but I am afraid and I'm not even an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:11 AM

In my honest opinion....likely to be as successful as he was in building 'The Wall'

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:22 AM

> unlike our own Brexit madness, this will be reversed
> at the next election

.... assuming he doesn't follow through on his "one last time" statement and have himself declared emperor for life.

--- *Wailie*: now *I*'m self-censoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:45 AM

I'm up early, you say? How about I never got to sleep. Every rational person in the United States is horrified.

In the next two months Biden has to pack the Supreme Court with at least two more justices. We know it can be done quickly, look at how Trump added Coney Barrett. And there isn't a rule saying there are only ever nine justices. The House and Senate have been working since Biden got into office to case-harden many aspects of the federal system to avoid the crap that Trump pulled last time.

Trump inherited Obama's robust economy, then trashed it over four years, but I can't believe that as many people as voted for him have no understanding of that - so many mentioned the economy. Gas isn't going to go back down, but inflation isn't a problem right now, and again, they can't tell the difference. And Trump created worse boogeymen with his lying about the conditions of things than Never-Trumpers and Democrats were able to convince people about how scary Trump is with his Project 2025.

Now the place goes to hell in a handbasket. He's going to pardon everyone he can, going to try to take away civil service protection and qualifications for federal employees to turn them into his minions. NATO, Ukraine, it's all a horrible disaster.

No point in reopening the other thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:01 AM

And the electoral college has to go. It's a relic of the time when slave states wanted to keep the power to enslave people. That's pretty much what is happening again, the minority rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:07 AM

My commiserations, Stilly.

I really, really wish you could have posted 'I told you so' here but, sadly, the fears we have voiced over the last few months have happened :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:08 AM

Humor in the face of life's absurdities is more crucial than ever.
A resurgence of newly adapted Stalin jokes may be apropos.

The election confirmed that machismo, misogyny, racism, miscegenation, fear, hate, and the mythical power of the beleaguered hero have won the day in the USA.

The threat to science is also in play at the National Institutes of Health.

It is 1933 in 2024. A normalization of advancing hatred is now without guardrails in the House, Senate, Presidency, and the Supream Court.
A modern fascism will be without some of the key aspects of Hitler's fascism but there is now room for new ones. 1933 was still a time before wholesale murder was the common political practice. 2024 will be transformative but overall a time when freedom is squeezed hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:13 AM

How many of Trumps 71 million voters believe that they will be the one turkey pardoned the thanksgiving table?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:20 AM

According to the BBC News website, Trump has said he plans to put billionaire Elon Musk in charge of an audit of governmental waste. It wouldn't surprise me that if Musk gets a taste of governmental power, he could make a bid for President next time round.

If you are worried about what the next four years might bring, be very afraid of what could happen in 2028.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:26 AM

Musk isn't eligible, he was born in South Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:26 AM

Dear Filk, hiding in fear helps no one, not even yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:32 AM

In European history we had successions of dynasties - can we now look forward to (dread) a dynasty of oligarchs?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:14 AM

In 1986 Ronald Reagan issued a sweeping amensty for all illegal immigrants who entered the US before 1982, part of a reform bill. I wonder if Biden could cobble together something like that ahead of Trump's slime trail arriving at the White House. That would certainly burst his bubble and help save the workforce here.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:56 AM

Value of Tesla shares have shot up overnight, looks like Musk may be getting a billion or so windfall then.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 09:51 AM

> Dear Filk, hiding in fear helps no one, not even yourself.

Panic is anger which hasn't had time to drop the clutch yet. And bravery *requires* fear, otherwise it's foolhardiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 09:51 AM

> looks like Musk may be getting a billion or so windfall

Only if he can cash in quick before the stock market tanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 10:57 AM

MaJoC the Filk - it was a remarkably fast turnaround this morning, from a horrible morass to a crisp bright anger. I've already set up a monthly donation to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). This in turn has me shopping around to lower my Internet bill - it has bugged me for ages that they keep raising the price and say its faster but it isn't. So that $20 a month will be a wash when I switch to the lower cost plan and give the cash instead to the folks who do try to protect our liberties.

That's 100+ days out of Kamala Harris' life she'll never get back. I was fine with Biden, by the way, but after that debate (and even though he was always better than Trump), the seeds of doubt were there. The Democrats shot themselves in the foot when the moneyed ones started clamoring that Biden was too old. And if we want to trace this back further, it was a nice gesture that Biden made Merrick Garland the Attorney General, but Garland failed to act in a timely manner - if he'd started those trials back when he should have, this would be moot. (They say hindsight is 20/20, but Garland has annoyed a lot of people by being way too cautious.) Now we get to see who Trump can appoint to go after his very long list of enemies. That probably includes jurors, judges, prosecutors, etc. Though Fani Willis is still standing and still has a case she can now run. Somehow. Better do it fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 11:12 AM

Herself's trying to write that poem, but she's too angry at the moment, and that's getting in the way.

.... I would add more, but every time I try to do so I manage to hit *something* on the keyboard and/or mousepad which blanks the entire message. Mebbe it's trying to tell me something.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 11:56 AM

This morning, bureaucratic government is in full goose bonker panic mode. My response was to make peanut butter cookies with pecans.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:39 PM

The stock market in the US isn't tanking; quite the opposite today on the election result.
If I'm not mistaken, the Republican party now has the president, vice-president, Senate, Congress and Supreme Court. Think on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:54 PM

Majoc:

"Panic is anger which hasn't had time to drop the clutch yet. And bravery *requires* fear, otherwise it's foolhardiness.

Is that yours? I want to know who I'm stealing from. Esp. the first part.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:56 PM

Thompson, I never fail to appreciate your keen grasp on things.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:58 PM

Biden did not help,by making comments about Trump voters

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:13 PM

With everything lined up as it is, could he change the constitution so he can stay in power?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:30 PM

Yes and no.
The Constitution can be changed with a 2/3 majority vote by each State.
But, with unlimited power, Trump can merely ignore the Constitution or change its function by decree, unconstitutionally.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:02 PM

Anger leads to panic, panic leads to fear. fear leads to anguish...
or any other combination of words that might fit in the moment.

Trump has many Goebbels wannabes like Tucker Carlson but he already has FOX as a propaganda branch of his government. For immigrant deportation camps, he has Miller and others to do the dirty work. Trump has more support from the Air Force than the other branches so there may be a purge of generals and admirals. RFK will be in charge of health?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:37 PM

robomatic: I can't remember where I got the second part from (possibly Sir Pterry --- it sounds like one of his). I admit responsibility for the other bit, with all due credit to Stilly for inspiring it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: meself
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:44 PM

So, the wealthiest and most powerful country on earth has elected as president a vicious, senile, old degenerate who just wanted a way to stay out of prison - and found it. It sounds like the basis for a mid-20th century comedy, but the aspiring president would have to be a loveable rogue and the country a banana republic.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:06 PM

I haven't even looked at the other contests and races
in my area, although I already heard it announced
that our US Senator was elected for another term (Democrat).

When I have my wits about me again,
I will look up those other senators, representatives, and ballot questions
to see what results there are.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:22 PM

The journalistic take seems to be that this election was decided by class - the working class having voted for the Republican candidate and the upper middle and upper class for the Democratic candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:47 PM

SRS..
"And the electoral college has to go."
   Of course it does, even though it wouldn't have helped this time. I am totally aghast at the poplar vote.
   Clearly, empty promises, catering to single-issue voters and general ignorance...fed by Fox News...has overwhelmed rationality.
   It will be interesting to see what Biden & Harris manage to salvage in the next few months, but I can only hope (no prayer!)
   Once the first shock was over, I refused to turn to the predictable 'analyses' by the pundits and just retreated into reading an important book about how to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:53 PM

It is late but it sounds like no one has been drinking.

Biden has some responsibility in this election result but twice as many Latino men voted for Trump this time around.
I would have sold out and chosen a candidate like Gavin Newsome ugh
At least he would not risk a gender gap bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:09 PM

BillD, the first Trump administration was a result of the electoral college. That's the problem.

I don't know what kind of a bind Judge Merchan is in, but it would soothe a lot of angry brows if he would sentence Trump to prison time. Even if he never serves it, he sure as hell deserves it.

Subject: RE: BS: US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:14 PM

So many people are wishing that M-i-*-t-e-r C-r-o-o-k-* (see Wikipedia) had been a better shot. I never thought I'd be writing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:23 PM

Look on the bright side. At least Kamala Harris is less likely to be the target now. The shooters can underestimate her while she and Biden work together to make life as difficult as possible for Trump when he slinks into the White House.