BS: UK party conferences

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:15 PM

"Your past fellow extremists have been given the boo0t, now only you is left in the bunker"

Who might they be?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:50 PM

"Who might they be?"
Ask nicely and I might t5ell you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 02:45 PM

Hope you don't think I was referring to you Iains - I wasn't
I assumed you'd just dissipated like a fart in the fresh air
jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:26 PM

Some on here have considered that the constant attacks on Corbyn do not have much substance.

A very interesting article can be found at tinyurl.com/y7lo4zp8

Very interesting indeed, but some will say not too surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:38 PM

I am only away a couple of days and it has all happened again! Sorry lads but you have fallen for it again. I am disappointed:-( We all know very well this is just the attention he craves. Just don't give it to him. You know it makes sense :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 04:03 AM

Both our main parties are in crisis and the leaders under attack from all sides, and Dave wants to shut down discussion.

What is happening this month will shape our future for years to come.
Start your own thread if you can not bare to see me as the OP, but this is a forum. If you do not like discussions you have a choice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

Very interesting article Raggy. Perhaps our resident pro-Israel lobby (which is bobad and Iains, not specifically Keith) would care to comment.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 04:22 AM

Rag's article is a disgusting and anti-Semitic lie.
Ordinary, decent long standing Labour members and MPs complained about the anti-Semitism they have experienced from within the party.

It is outrageous to suggest that they are acting as paid agents of a foreign government.

It is an familiar old trope to claim that Jews engage in international conspiracies to subvert democracy. I am appalled that people here are taken in by it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:05 AM

"It is an familiar old trope to claim that Jews engage in international conspiracies to subvert democracy. I am appalled that people here are taken in by it."

..and of course no Jews ever conspire for their own advantage...???

utter bollocks.. all peoples can and do...

IsraeliGovt regime wants it's cake and eat it...
If you suspect/detect a blatant conspiracy right under your noses,
you got to lump it and pretend it's not happening
if Jews are involved, even if caught red handed....????????

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:16 AM

Keith - there is a stark qualitative difference between far right hate speach
their paranoid racist theories regarding Jewish conspiracies...

and some Jewish zealots actively conspiring in the real world for the the benefits of Israel Govt regime,
and being held to account if reasonably suspected of doing so...

Even worse if they cynically exploit the far right conspiracy theories as cover and a get out of jail card..

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:33 AM

Keith - take this on board...

There may be links between powerful brutal Russian Jewish Mafia and Israeli Govt...!!!

Now this recent conspiracy theory might be complete baseless nutjob fantasy...

Or there may be real truth in it...

Whatever, the mere possibility indicates the extent of real world deep and dark tangled webs
of international mutually beneficial shady alliances and activities...

True or not... a person has to be really gullible or devious to adhere strictly to pro Israeli propaganda...

.. or form that matter, any other nation's, or political/religious agency's self serving propaganda...

So Keith which are you...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:34 AM

3 in a row [now 4].. time for breakfast..

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:37 AM

5 - "form" should obviously be "for"...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 06:01 AM

Long standing Jewish Labour members and MPs lie about experiencing anti-Semitism, at the bidding of foreign government.
You will not find that anti-Semitic trope published in any reputable outlet.
You will never see it in the Guardian.
You will never hear any Labour spokesman suggesting it.
Peter Willsman said something much less ant-Semitic and what happened?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/31/corbyn-ally-says-jewish-trump-fanatics-make-up-antisemitism-claims

Wiki on Middle East Eye,
"Despite Hearst's denial of affiliation between the MEE and any governments or organizations, several members of the Muslim Brotherhood are affiliated with the Middle East Eye.[3][4]
Additionally, according to The Guardian, the MEE has been noted by Saudi Arabia as a news outlet funded by Qatar (both directly and indirectly);[5] the Qatari government is regarded as a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. On 22 June 2017, during the 2017–18 Qatar diplomatic crisis, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Egypt and Bahrain, as part of a list of 13 demands, demanded that Qatar close the Middle East Eye, which was seen as sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Middle East Eye denied it has ever received Qatari funds"

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 06:24 AM

Keith - stop grasping at distractions...

I've not bothered reading that link yet..
and if I do it will be as ever with a guarded sceptical eye..
I'll judge it's validity for myself, thank you...

Just now I was talking in broader terms, as well you know...


btw.. "Long standing Jewish Labour members and MPs lie about experiencing anti-Semitism, at the bidding of foreign government."

How can any of us know if there is any truth in this...

I'm not a member of Labour party inner circles.
But my gut feeling is I am suspicious that some of the Jewish community being given air time on BBC news
could be exagerating and blowing things up out of proportion..

I definitely felt that even more so when Margaret Hodge was interevied 2 day ago...

She came over as a shallow, vindictive, self important, self-obsessed, spoilt old princess - with a massive grudge...

I felt no sense that she was a plausible Labour politician who I could vote for if she were a local candidate...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

Keith is now posting the same meaningless racist message on two threads at the same time - that the Arab voice is not to be believed

For Keith, anything to do with Saudi Arabia id untrustworthy - bit it is fine to sell them fighter planes to bomb the shit out of the Yemenis - which he has openly supported
He needs to make up his mind

It is about time that the people accusing the Labour Party of antisemitism specified a#ecxactly what they are accusing them of - accusing Israel f crimes against humanity is a statement of facts - not antisemitism
WHEN HAS THE LABOUR PARTY OR A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF ITS MEMBERS EVER ATTACKECKED THE JEWISH PEOPLE? - HISTORICALLY, THAT HAS BEEN THE DOMAIN OF THE TORY PARTY AND THE RIGHT IN GENERAL
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM

"Long standing Jewish Labour members and MPs lie about experiencing anti-Semitism, at the bidding of foreign government.
You will not find that anti-Semitic trope published in any reputable outlet."

Not antisemitic at all. Long-standing Jewish Labour members and MPs are just as capable of lying or exaggerating as any other MP or member of any other setup...unless you're elevating Jews to be more moral than everyone else and incapable of lying and that we must never suggest otherwise lest we be branded antisemites ...do tell us! And you're saying "bidding." I could suggest instead that the more accurate expression could be "in informal league with," but then you'd accuse me of saying that all Jews are conspirators and that makes me an antisemite...

See how free speech and criticism of the Israeli regime are being constrained?

Here's what the originator of the definition, Kenneth Stern, now has to say about its abuse (from wiki):

The main drafter of the working definition and its examples, Kenneth S. Stern, has not critised the definition, but has cautioned against the free speech implications of its use as a legal tool. In 2011, he co-authored an article about how the 'Working Definition' was being abused in Title VI cases, because it was being employed in an attempt to "restrict academic freedom and punish political speech." He stated that even when these cases were lost "they chilled pro-Palestinian expression" and "McCarthy-like" usage. In November 2017, Stern explained to the US House of Representatives that the definition has been abused on various US university campuses. He warned that it could "restrict academic freedom and punish political speech" and questioned whether definitions created by minority groups should be legislatively enshrined, giving as one of several examples:

"Imagine a definition designed for Palestinians. If "Denying the Jewish people their right to selfdetermination, and denying Israel the right to exist" is antisemitism, then shouldn't "Denying the Palestinian people their right to self-determination, and denying Palestine the right to exist" be anti-Palestinianism? Would they then ask administrators to police and possibly punish campus events by pro-Israel groups who oppose the two state solution, or claim the Palestinian people are a myth?"

He states that the definition was created with data collectors in mind. "I encouraged the Department of State's first Special Envoy for Antisemitism to promote the definition as an important tool. He used it effectively as the framework for a report on global antisemitism." He added: "approaches to antisemitism that endorse and promote academic freedom are more likely to work, in part because they underscore the academy’s goal of increasing knowledge and promoting critical thinking.... approaches that explain academic freedom away or harm it will not only fail, they make the problem worse."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:02 AM

Why is this powerful story not told by any reputable publication or broadcaster?
Because it is a racist lie and there would be a prosecution.

The claim is that all those highly respected and longserving
Labour people, Jews and non Jews, are lying about their own experience and doing it in the service of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:36 AM

Keith - I have read that long link, and it does get a bit dense to read and bogged down by the end.
I could only skim a few of the top reader comments...

But much of it is essentially what I have come to conclude for myself,
simply by relying on my own experience, informed hunches, and judgement.

My educated opinion is that the writer seems credible, objective,
and the article has well researched journalistic integrity...

Your knee jerk condemnation of this article,
yet again exposes your intolerance as a petty pin-headed arse-licker
of the depotic Israeli Govt regime...

Btw.. thanks.. I wouldn't have bothered finding time to read it if you hadn't started bleating about it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:36 AM

Strangely enough, I also advised Margaret Thatcher to fuck off.

I wonder if was me or Frank Field who managed to sway her opinion in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:46 AM

We've gone off half-cock about this on two threads. I got a bit confused. The Hertford Troll is brainlessly posting the same demented posts on two threads. Why don't we abandon antisemitism on this thread and confine it to the one that actually has antisemitism in the title. Far more sensible. I'm not sensible but I'm doing that anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:54 AM

Steve - I haven't got round to reading that thread yet.
When I looked at it briefly around 6am I was so relieved someone else had started it,
and it looked like Keith hadn't infested it yet...

I was hoping I might be keeping him occupied here until I started reading the new thread...

Oh well... I'll need to grit my teeth if I do start reding it later...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 09:32 AM

"Why don't we abandon antisemitism on this thread and confine it to the one that actually has antisemitism in the title. Far more sensible."

What would be infinitely more sensible would be to ignore that half-wit altogether. You know it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 09:47 AM

The Hertford Troll is brainlessly posting the same demented posts on two threads.

The link has been posted on both threads.
It is lies. If there was any evidence it would be reported in the normal way.
Publishing such lies here or in any decent country would be considered a hate crime.

Defending it does none of you any credit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 10:08 AM

Keith - I looked up the biog of that article's writer.
I can't check yours - but in comparison,
it's very unlikely you are anywhere credible or qualified enough to even sharpen his pencils...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 11:04 AM

NO SPECIFIC ACCUSATIONS - NO CASE =NATURAL JUSTICE   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

Times today,
"Boris Johnson will address up to a thousand Conservative Party delegates on the eve of Theresa May’s keynote conference speech next month. In a move that will cause discomfort,"

Not looking good for May. Also EU has rejected her Brexit proposal but is warming to that of David Davis who resigned over May's rejection of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 18 - 11:40 AM

UKIP and the Lib Dems have had their conferences, but nobody noticed.
This week it is Labour.
There will be a debate on Tuesday about Brexit. Corbyn and Watson are said to be anti a "people's vote" but 86% of members are in favour and 90% want to Remain so presumably they will win.

I doubt that Labour voters are represented by those members and it may cost them in an election.
Should be interesting.

Corbyn was interviewed by Andrew Marr. I expect you all saw it.
Most of the interview was about Corbyn's alleged anti-Semitism.

It is reported that a Labour MP who has criticised Corbyn (Margaret Hodge?) will require armed police protection at conference!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 Sep 18 - 05:24 PM

a friend of mine is the local delegate to the conference - i asked him 'how is it going, marra?' 'like the 80s' - 'excellent'

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 02:32 AM

If we tried interminably to maintain a heated thread at all costs about abortion murdering babies, or what bastards the Catholic clergy all are, or what gullible idiots the God Squad are for not being atheists, the moderators here would be down like a ton of bricks. I think it's high time this forum treated attempts by the couple of obsessive and hypocritical maniacs here who try to turn every thread about UK politics into an antisemitism thread in exactly the same way. We have been there, done it and got the ten t-shirts. Enough.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:04 AM

Corbyn of course was correct in that "the establishment of the state of Israel was in agreement with the United Nations and its borders were defined." And these borders were defined in UN resolution 181. And it is to those borders which Israel needs to return if there is to be a just settlement in the middle east.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:15 AM

David, you're absolutely correct, but I strongly advise against encouraging Boob-ad and his ilk. That road leads to insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:28 AM

Israel isn't a "racist endeavour" - it never has been - it is the actions of its leadership in claiming they are acting on behalf of the Jewish people that has given rise to such accusations - it makes the Israeli administration 'antisemitic' by definition
The various administrations have corrupted the ideals that led to the setting up of the State and introduced the kind of politics that made the setting up of the State a necessity after the Holocaust
No state should be judged by its leadership no matter how corrupt or evil
Corbyn is the only political leader in Britain to have recognised the plight of the Palestinian people and supported their right to remain in their homes - that is to his credit and in this respect, he shames the rest of the world who have remained silent over the continuing atrocities and human rights abuses
LATEST LARGELY UNREPORTED ATROCITIES
It remains to be seen whetheer he will live up to his apparent humanity
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:40 AM

SOBERING STATISTICS FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE ON THE QUESTION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 05:04 AM

It's there as a topic and there are large demonstrations in the streets of Liverpool protesting the actions of the regime
Censorship is second nature to these people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 05:28 AM

I reckon this week will be more interesting than usual...

Enjoy! (as they say at The Harvester....)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 07:56 AM

John McDonnell finishes a brilliant, inspiring speech setting out a vision and policies for making the country a far better place for every man, woman and child to live in.

Within five minutes, that fuckwit Tory shill on 'Daily Politics', Jo Coburn, drags 'Corbyn anti-semitism' into the conversation about that speech.

Fuckwitted propaganda for other fuckwits to fall for.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 09:58 AM

"a Jewish MP requires police protection at the Labour conference"
"Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree and former director of Labour Friends of Israel and the London Jewish Forum, read, or paid someone else to read, every comment Jeremy Corbyn had ever made on Twitter, going right back to 2012. Finally, her determination paid off, she struck gold and found ONE SENTENCE with which to try and bring down her own party leader right before the May by-elections – a comment defending a dodgy mural he’d ‘not even looked at properly!’

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 12:26 PM

It's exceptionally noticeable that she ensures that press cameras are present as she swaggers proudly through the streets with a copper by her side. Jaysus, some of you blokes are just massive suckers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 01:48 PM

Your photo shows armed police outside the conference
The "escort" is not armed

ARMED POLICE AT PARTY CONFERENCE

MORE

SNIPERS

EVEN THE LIB DEMS

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 01:52 PM

SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME - SHORTLY

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:27 PM

It is more than a little surprising that a poster who claim he agrees that "good manners cost nothing" then goes one to describe other posters as "Labour Fuckwits"

Is it me alone who finds this distorted and illogical?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 04:27 PM

Armed or unarmed, it is new and unprecedented for an ordinary MP to need police protection at her own party conference.
The police would not provide it without very good reason.

Do not blame her that her policeman is plain to see or that the whole media zooms in on such an amazing sight.
It is a great story. Of course they will.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 04:44 PM

Only your kind of press, Mail, Express, Sun. Proper papers would take a far more measured view. Like I said, you're just a massive sucker. Nothing like a good old piece of tabloid senastionalism to keep our Keifie happy in his permanent state of feeble-minded confirmation bias.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:25 AM

And omigod how weak I am.

I must not feed the trolls.
I must not feed the trolls.
I must not feed the trolls.
I must not feed the trolls.
(and 96 more times...)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:40 AM

THIS FELLER [those who have been deleted from the thread . . . ]OBVIOUSLY HAS NO INTENTION OF TAKING PART IN RATIONAL DEBATE AND IS INCAPABLE OF POSTING WITHOUT A STRING OF ABUSE - CAN I SUGGEST HE IS TOTALLY IGNORED
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:44 AM

Suggest it as many times as you like, Jim! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 05:06 AM

I think anyone who gives an iota of credence to anything 'Semen' Staines trots out, really is a gullible dickwadi. That Basic Training indoctrination certainly worked on Pte Parts, didn't it?

Jim, Steve, I'm guessing you've never served in HM Forces? The bluster, insults, and provocation is standard lower-ranks tactics in an effort to gain advantage over their intellectual superiors - it's what passes for 'debate' between them. Best let him rant on, and without further comment. Blowhard barrack-room lawyers hate being ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 05:08 AM

"Suggest it as many times as you like, Jim!"
Definition
psychopath noun
a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 05:24 AM

"Jim, Steve, I'm guessing you've never served in HM Forces?"

Nearest I came was when my application to join the Cubs was turned down due to the fact that I was a leftie atheist republican...