BS: UK party conferences

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: bobad
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 04:20 PM

in illegally annexing land for settlements

There are no illegal settlements - unless of course one assumes that Jews should not own property or build in those areas because they are Jews. Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled. We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law. And, frankly, law established during the illegal Jordanian occupation of the area in which jewish property was confiscated and retitied, and current PA regulations that ban sales or ownership of property by Jews is not valid.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 06:34 AM

From wiki.

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law, because the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 prohibits countries from moving population into territories occupied in a war. Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War. The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.

Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979, 1980, and 2016. UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice and the International Committee of the Red Cross.

And all that is aside from the human cost to the Palestinians of the usurping of their land.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 06:36 AM

Incidentally, there is no such thing as "Jewish land." In the words of that great self-sufficiency guru John Seymour (as right-wing as they come but still a bit of a hero of mine), no man made the land.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 06:39 AM

So I suppose I contradicted meself a bit just there. To correct the first post, I should say "land lived on by Palestinian people."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 07:35 AM

"Incidentally, there is no such thing as "Jewish land." "
Especially as ovr 80% of the citizens of Israel are totally opposed to Israel being declaerd a Jewish State
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 07:37 AM

An interesting philosophical point. I tend to think, I own the freehold of my house. But in the long run ,none of us own anything. In fact it pisses me off a bit to think my guitars - that I worked and sacrificed for will be being plunked by some other bugger before too long.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 08:13 AM

Great starter for ten for Tory Party Conference
The Foriehn Secretary declared the Prime Minister's Brexit plan "deranged" and she is to announce plans for a "Festival of Britain"
That should iron out some of their problems !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 08:56 AM

The Conservative Civil War ratcheting up - wonder if they'll have punch-ups in the hall.
The really are a comedy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 08:58 AM

The Praying Mantis was a disaster on Marr this morning - she looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights, and she kept pulling that strange face she pulls when she's bricking-it and in panic-mode.

Hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 09:48 AM

I think you should own the land that your house stands on. As for your garden and your farm, or whatever, you have the right to occupy that land (as long as you didn't forcibly drive someone else off it first) because you have tended it, drained it, cultivated it and generally improved it. I don't advocate anarchy. Somebody made your guitar, you maybe, or you paid money to the person who made it (ultimately). But land is different, because you can't make it, and John Seymour's principle is that you can earn the right to occupy land to make your living from it, or get pleasure from it, as long as you don't occupy more than your fair share (he made suggestions as to what that should be, according to the quality of the land) and as long as you are a good steward. That sounds like a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 10:14 AM

well that's all very well. but, just imagine...

when I'm dead someone might well play awful things on my guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 10:28 AM

Well Al,

I for one hope fervently that someone plays my guitars after I am gone. No point at all in them gathering dust. In fact I have left my bext guitar to a friend in my will. I know he will cherish it as I do.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 10:59 AM

I think that's the problem. I don't actually cherish them, I just sort of play them.

3 yamahas, cheap tele. three ukuleles, cheap 335, tranny amps, much despised Fender acoustic, variax, two the bloke down the road made in his shed.

the lot along a PA system would probably pay for the wife a fortnight in a residential home.

What you invest in an instrument is spiritual. Your domain. Some other clod tramping overboundaries.....its coming!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 11:22 AM

Oh I cherish my Kinkade, it's a joy to play and makes a fantastic sound. The others I like, the Kinkade I love.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: bobad
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 12:22 PM

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law, because the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 prohibits countries from moving population into territories occupied in a war.

The Geneva Conventions DO NOT apply here.
1) Palestine is not a High Contracting Party. Part 1 Article 1 4th Geneva Convention.
2) Jordan's occupation of parts of the former British Mandate (and appropriation into the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (1948-1967) WAS illegal and anyway Jordan has since relinquished all claims.
3) The clause you refer to was a response to Nazi atrocities during World War II, specifically mass transfers and deportations to concentration and death camps. This is clear by the documents surrounding the convention and statements by the drafters.
It does not apply here and has never been applied in clear cases where one state transfers civilians to live in occupied territory including China transferring Han Chinese into Tibet and the former Soviet Union transferring ethnic Russians into Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
4) Israel has transferred no one. Any Israelis living in the area that was formerly Jordan (48-67) came willingly and of their own free volition

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 12:50 PM

The only reason Israel has never been tried in the United Nations Internationl Crimes court is because the US has used its veto to prevent it
That is evidence enough that that Israel is a criminal state
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 12:51 PM

And this is to do with UK party conferences because..?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 01:02 PM

I was thinking the same thing, Dave. And I was wondering why the thread OP isn't here ordering Boob-ad to stick to the topic, or Foxtrot Oscar. Maybe it's because he's on the same side as ol' Booby?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 01:14 PM

Yes I sometimes wish I was one of these guys who feel great affection and have a duster in their case. I suppose its an omission in my personality .

I just want to be a good guitarist before I die. Sometimes I wished I lived in a finca in the wilds of Spain. Look out on the terraces of olive trees on the mountain opposite me, and play. No audiences. no gigs. Just finally get the f---ing thing right.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 01:25 PM

"And this is to do with UK party conferences because..?"
I'm assuming, as Bobad raised it, that he's making sure Israel's campaign of smearing the Labour Party doesn't fall by the wayside
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 18 - 04:03 PM

Well do we have to be dictated to by political parties? We can decide what we think their conferences are about. We don't have to accept their evaluation of what they're talking about, do we?

I mean Steve's hit on the crux of the matter. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have laid claims to a chunk of land. Ownership is an odd sort of abstract spiritual thing.

Political parties are gross materialistic devices. They're about as clever a way for divining such matters as gelignite on an ATM machine.

The party conferences have always represented worst aspects of English prejudices, as demagogues compete to think up the daftest truisms for party faithful.

Can we help it if we rise effortlessly above such utter bollocks?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 04:28 AM

"Ownership is an odd sort of abstract spiritual thing."
A massive oversimplification Al
It's nothing to do with 'ownership', it's about your right to stay in your home - go fingd out which national group has HIGHEST NUMBER OF REFUGEES ON THE PLANET
Thatcher was the one who turned homes into commodities rather than places to live
THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 06:09 AM

"Thatcher was the one who turned homes into commodities rather than places to live"


Was it not labour first proposed selling off local authority housing stock?
Was it not labour that built an average of 562 council houses per year. And Mrs Thatcher's Conservatives? 41,343.?

Facts dear boy, FACTS! not flights of fancy or extremely dodgy rhetoric


"The Labour Party initially proposed the idea of the right of tenants to own the house they live in, in their manifesto for the 1959 general election which they subsequently lost"

So the reality is Labour first moneterized housing stock under public ownership, and further drove up its value by a creating a paucity of further newbuilds!

Not exactly a shining testament to times of socialist misrule, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 06:11 AM

Excellent letter in today's Guardian. I think I that the accusation of "systematic reporting failures" fully applies also to Corbyn's enemies on this forum. I don't suppose for one minute that the list of signatories will impress them. Or that they'll even bother to read the letter at all when they see the list. That's what blind prejudice is all about.

We have long had serious concerns about the lack of due impartiality and accuracy in the reporting of allegations of antisemitism against Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party. The recent report by the Media Reform Coalition examining coverage of Labour’s revised code of conduct on antisemitism shows that we are right to be concerned.

The research examined over 250 articles and broadcast news segments and found over 90 examples of misleading or inaccurate reporting. In relation to the IHRA definition of antisemitism that was at the heart of the dispute, the research found evidence of “overwhelming source imbalance” in which critics of Labour’s code of conduct dominated coverage, with nearly 50% of Guardian reports, for example, failing to include any quotes from those defending the code or critiquing the IHRA definition. Moreover, key contextual facts about the IHRA definition – for example that it has only been formally adopted by eight countries (and only six of the IHRA member states) – were consistently excluded.

The researchers conclude these were not occasional lapses in judgment but “systematic reporting failures” that served to weaken the Labour leadership and to bolster its opponents within and outside of the party.

It is of course entirely appropriate and necessary for our major news outlets to report on the horrors of antisemitism, but wrong to present it as an issue specific to the Labour party.

In covering the allegations that Labour is now “institutionally antisemitic”, there have been inaccuracies, clear distortions and revealing omissions across our most popular media platforms. We believe that significant parts of the UK media have failed their audiences by producing flawed reports that have contributed to an undeserved witch-hunt against the Labour leader and misdirected public attention away from antisemitism elsewhere, including on the far right, which is ascendant in much of Europe.

Prof Noam Chomsky
Brian Eno
Francesca Martinez
Yanis Varoufakis
Ken Loach
Raoul Martinez
Justin Schlosberg Birkbeck, University of London
Prof Des Freedman Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Imogen Tyler Lancaster University
Prof Aeron Davis Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Annabelle Sreberny Soas, University of London
Prof Greg Philo University of Glasgow
Prof Natalie Fenton Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof David Miller Bristol University
Prof David Hesmondhalgh University of Leeds
Prof James Curran Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Julian Petley Brunel University
Stephen Cushion Cardiff University
Jason Hickel Goldsmiths, University of London
Einar Thorsen Bournemouth University
Mike Berry Cardiff University
Tom Mills Aston University
Jenny Manson Jewish Voice for Labour
Leah Levane Jewish Voice for Labour
Lindsey German Stop the War Coalition
Mike Cushman Free Speech on Israel
Glyn Secker Jewish Voice for Labour

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:09 AM

THanks for that Steve - it really is about time somebody said that
That reads like Einstein's warning

"Was it not labour first proposed selling off local authority housing stock?"
Right wing labour made it an option for council tenants who could aford it
Thatcher used it to destroy the concept of social housing

THIRD OF EX-COUNCIL HOMES OWNED BY RICH LANDLORDS

THATCHER'S POLICIES HIT THE POOREST
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:14 AM

What the pointy heads say is an irrelevance. It is the electorate need to be persuaded and at the last count51% were not!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 08:10 AM

RACISM TH DECIDING FACTOR
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 08:30 AM

Yet the leave side vehemently deny that their votes were largely predicated on racist sentiments. Well they would, wouldn't they. No-one likes to be called a racist, not even racists.

"I'm not a racist, but..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 09:44 AM

That article from June 2017 sounds like psychobabble with its use of "feeling thermometers."
Also, we have a Brexit thread running so why post it here??

And I was wondering why the thread OP isn't here ordering Boob-ad to stick to the topic, or Foxtrot Oscar

Jim's assertion that Jewish agents within the Labour Party have been lying on behalf of Israel to discredit Labour in and out of conference would make the issue relevant.
It must be said that such an assertion directly contravenes the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.
Note Jim, I am not saying you are a racist bigot, but according to IHRA you are.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:43 AM

"Jewish agents "
If you identify the Jewish people with ISRAELI AGENTS
you are an antisemite in the extreme - even according to the IHRA definition
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
But we knew that anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:43 AM

"Jewish agents "
If you identify the Jewish people with ISRAELI AGENTS
you are an antisemite in the extreme - even according to the IHRA definition
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
But we knew that anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:52 AM

Ref
Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 06:11 AM

Jewish anti semites, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:56 AM

TORY ANTISEMITISM YOU HAVE REFUSED TO CONDEMN
Don't you ever call me an anti-semite while you support this garbage with your silence
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM

Philip Hammond still trying to blame the last Labour government for the Tories' dismal performance on the economic front. Boasted that they've reduced the Deficit from 10% of GDP in 2010 to just over 2%. Completely forgot to mention that, in eight years, theyve borrowed more than the total of all borrowing by all Labour governments ever. Did manage to say, several times though, that the Tories are the party of 'economic competence'.

In yer dreams....

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 03:24 PM

Its not an over simplification. Ownership is a very profound concept.

Think of it in terms of animals.

The buffalo have a home in America. The lions and tigers and elephants have a home in Africa.The deer up in Scotland.

No language expresses that. No belief system underpins that.

But we all understand it to some extent.

The sophistry and bullshit originates in us.

And with it comes all the snotty behaviour, bad temper and violence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 05:05 PM

Is it my imagination but has the Conservative Party conference received far less coverage in the press, to date, than the corresponding Labour conference.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 06:27 PM

It's certainly received far less adverse coverage in the press than the Labour conference, Raggy. Wonder how come?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:25 PM

"Its not an over simplification. Ownership is a very profound concept."
When you are being ethnically cleansed out of your country it is very much an oversimplification Al
"Think of it in terms of animals."
How about thinking of it in terms of human beoings Al - it is nothing whatever to do with oning your land or home - it is more a case of being allowed to stay in your country
Do you honestly believe the millions of refugees wandering the world today are worrying about land or home ownership !!!
The millions who have been forced out of Palestine or Syria..... or wherever, no longer have land or homes they have either been built over tomake room for someone else or have been bombed to rubble
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: bobad
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:55 PM

Way more Jews have been ethnically cleansed from Arab lands but hey, they're Jews so let us only bemoan the Arabs who tried to annihilate the Jews and were defeated in their endeavour even though they outnumbered the Jews ten to one. Jew hatred has no bounds,

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 08:19 PM

A JEWISH HISTORIAN'S VIEW

DETAILED PROOF

TODAY'S SITUATION - TIMES of ISRAEL

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 03:39 AM

Directly ripped off from my mate Simon. Sorry Simon - It is just too good.

Theresa May says her Brexit plan isn't dead. Presumably it's pining for the fjords.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 04:32 AM

All going really well for the Greedy & Selfish Party.....

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 04:57 AM

It's certainly a late Brexit plan, Dave. Two years late to be precise. Soon to become an ex-plan, I suspect...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 05:40 AM

Excellent piece there, John. Watch the Tories in the next election campaign. Just more bankrupt "policies," appeals to right-wing groups and little-England sentiment, and, most of all, and most useful to Labour, more Corbyn-bashing. They haven't learned, as revealed by the Tories and their fellow-travellers on Mudcat getting more and more hysterical in their searches for any Jezza-dirt they can dig up. The electorate saw through it last time and it's even more transparent this time. Oddly, one thing the Tories HAVE been fairly quiet about is "Labour's antisemitism problem." No need to wonder why!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 05:56 AM

Guido Fawkes + Tommy Robinson + National Front + British national Party
I'd say you have a full house there Iains
Beats anything else on the table
Jim Carroll

WHO IS PAUL STAINES (AKA) GUIDO FAWKES?
Who is Paul Staines and why are articles calling him Guido Fawkes showing up in my email inbox? >prisonlawinsideout: Paul Staines (aka) Guido Fawkes sue me and see if I care...: The Guardian 31 May 1986: Tory student leader in ‘ racist ‘ party link / Paul Delarie-Staines of FCS attempts to form pact with British National Party in Hull >By David Rose >A leader of the Federation of Conservative Students wrote to an organiser of the British National Party proposing joint ‘direct action’ to disrupt the meetings of leftwing students. Secrecy, he emphasised, was essential: ‘The Reds would simply go wild if they got to hear of a BNP-FCS link. I would personally be in danger of being expelled from the Conservative Party.’ >The author of the letter is Mr Paul Delarie-Staines, the chairman of the federation’s 50-strong branch at the Humberside college of Higher Education. Mr Delarie-Staines, who is in his first year of a degree course in business information studies, wrote on May 22 to Mr Ian Walker, a BNP organiser in Hull. >He was, he said, against several of the aims of the BNP, which campaigns for the repatriation of black citizens. Several of its members have been convicted of offences under the Race Relations Act, and others for crimes of violence against ethnic minorities. Its leader, Mr John Tyndall, is a former chairman of the National Front. >Mr Delarie-Staines said he did not share the BNP view on immigration: as a member of the ‘libertarian’ faction of the FCS he advocated the free movement of labour, albeit with the caveat that ‘you come here to work - or starve. ‘He went on: ‘I share a lot of your objectives.‘ These included a return to leadership and statesmanship, the abolition of the welfare state, and ‘the elimination of Communism in Britain - the mass media, the trade unions, and the schoolroom. ‘Mr Delaire-Staines continued: ‘Nevertheless, even though we have our differences, I know a lot of BNP people at college do support the FCS (some are members of the FCS). I can certainly envisage some degree of cooperation. >‘For instance, we are moving away from just the normal political debate and towards more direct action - anti-Communist slogans on bridges, disrupting the leftist meetings by posing as leftists and then causing trouble, and also convincing individual leftists of the error of their ways. >‘Perhaps members of the BNP would care to join us in our anti-leftist activities. We can arrange a meeting to discuss possible joint future activities. ‘Other examples of Mr Delaire-Staines work reached the Guardian, including a number of songs. One, entitled FCS Bootboys, reads: ‘Gas them all, gas them all, the Tribune group trendies and all. Crush Wedgwood Benn and make glue from his bones, Burn the broad left in their middle class homes. >‘Yes we’re saying goodbye to the Left, as safe in their graveyards they rest. >‘Cos they’ll get no further, we’ll stop with murder, the bootboys of FCS. >‘In a letter to a friend, Mr Delaire-Staines said that he had been on a ‘community arts course - well. not exactly community arts, more spraypainting a bridge at 3am. Quite good fun really, ducking out of sight of passing police cars’ >Mr Delaire-Staines told the Guardian that he had not meant violence by direct action at leftist meetings, only ‘causing as much noise as possible’. He said that he had tried to forge links with the BNP because ‘we share their anti-Communist view’. >He added: ‘They’re not far-right. They’re just racists, they believe in one colour. ‘Mr John Barrow, the national chairman of FCS and a Lambeth councillor, said that Mr Delaire-Staines was ‘a bit silly. I wouldn’t hold it against him. I’m sure he’ll grow out of it.’ After hearing extracts from the letter to the BNP he added. ‘He’s absolutely right that he’s in danger of being thrown out of the Conservative Party.’Mr James Goodsman, the Conservative Central Office official responsible for the FCS, said: ‘If the evidence comes my way I will certainly look into it.'

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 06:13 AM

YOU CAN TELL THE MAN THAT BOOZES BY THE COMPANY HE CHOOSES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 08:10 AM

yes I think they're thinking , dreaming even of a land where unquestionably they belong.

And ownership is the name we give to that concept.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 08:12 AM

Arlene Foster has declared her support for Boris Johnson - yat another match made in heaven
May has triumphantly crowed that they will keep Johnnie Foreigner out which is what it has been about from day one
Iaian has just added Farage to his rapidly growing fascist friends
Perfik!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 08:14 AM

De Laire is Staines' second Christian name, he isn't double barrelled and it isn't hyphenated. It was also the second Christian name of his father who is from Uttar Pradesh, and by all accounts a decent chap. Odious little shit that Paul is, he doesn't seem to show any pride in his heritage. Just as he doesn't seem to show any remorse for his bankruptcy and his drink driving convictions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 08:22 AM

Paul Staines influences only those people who are suckers for confirmation bias. He won't change anything or convert anyone. Chill, chaps, and ignore both him and his tawdry little acolyte on this forum.