Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down

Subject: Valiant mountain? Lunar mountain?
From: GUEST,Stephen R.
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:27 AM

One of the great singers of the Maritime Provices was Angelo Dornan, noted for a highly ornamented style of singing and a valuable repertory. His songs were collected by Helen Creighton. Among them was 'Nellie', a version of 'The Green Mountain'(the North American form of 'Come All You Little Streamers'), which includes two stanzas borrowed or adapted from other songs, and also some telling modifications of the usual text of 'The Green Mountain', adapting the song to the perspective of an emigrant from County Down. The stanza that in other versions begins 'On yonder green mountain a castle doth stand', and that is usually the first stanza of the song, in 'Nellie' is the second stanza and begins with the incomprehensible lines: 'O sleep valiant mountain, it bears a great name, / And beyond Lunar mountain it is fair to be seen'.

I have tried to trace actual toponyms, either in New Brunswick or more likely in County Down, that might have underlain the odd 'valiant mountain'and 'Lunar mountain', without success. But geographical gazeteers document only major topographical features, so I continue to wonder whether these might be the names of local features, perhaps in garbled form, in Canada or Ireland. Can anyone in this list shed some light on these lines?

Stephen

Subject: RE: Valiant mountain? Lunar mountain?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:32 AM

PS Joe, I keep appearing on this list as 'Guest' because it is a bit of a business to find the sign-in site. Would it be possible to locate a sign-in conveniently on the same page as 'Start a new thread' etc?

Stephen R., member

Subject: RE: Valiant mountain? Lunar mountain?
From: GUEST,Try again
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 03:01 PM

In case this message simply got buried by incoming before the person out there who knows the answer had time to see it, I will try again.

Stephen, member looking for the login box.

Subject: RE: Valiant mountain? Lunar mountain?
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 03:51 PM

I can't help you with the question -- except to suggest that you have a Gaelic speaker translate some of the mountains that are named in Gaelic, to see if that clarifies anything -- but I do think you might consider startiug a thread named something like "County Down geography -- help" (or renaming this one, if that's possible), as that would be more likely to attract people who could answer your question.

Good luck! Don't give up!

Subject: RE: Valiant mountain? Lunar mountain?
From: GUEST,Stephen R.
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 10:02 AM

Thanks, Claire Bear; I'll do this shortly. Possibly either of these might be translations of a Gaelic name; or maybe the Gaelic name *sounds* like 'lunar' or 'valiant'--these things can get garbled in unpredictable ways in oral tradition. I'll also see if I can find an atlas of Ireland in some local library; I'm no whiz at Gaelic, but I think I could spot the original of either of these if they are in fact translatios.

By the way--look up 'bear' in Gaelic--it's odd and interesting, and has to do with ancient taboos.

Stephen R.

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: GUEST,Bryony - Guest
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:12 AM

I know a very leetle bit about language and the way it gets twisted by accent, vocal mannerism (think of Sean Nos with all the grace notes and elongation of words) and then mis-hearing. (Then you have the problem of re-interpretation of apparently "meaningless" phrases by the well-intentioned!)e.g From The White/Green/Blue Cockade - "a shilling from the Crown" has become "10 shillings and a crown", a friend of mine sings "Me Father Gave I Watch and Chain" with the line "I lay beside my working clothes" What?! Of course it should be "I laid aside my working clothes".
"O sleep valiant mountain" could very well be "On the steep slopes of the mountain" or something completely different. My (very long-winded) point is that you are not necessarily looking for geographical features.

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: GUEST,Frank Phillips
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM

Sleep Valiant = Slieve Gallion

"Slieve Gallion is the easternmost summit of the Sperrin Mountains in the western part of Northern Ireland."

So if there is a peak reasonably close by that has a 2 syllable name with the first syllable starting with L and the second one with N or M then maybe..........

Well, it MIGHT be the answer.

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: GUEST,Frank Phillips
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 01:50 PM

Re: my previous post. If you can see Slieve Gallion from the westernmost part of County Down the theory might work.

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

The Mourne Mountains, the Sperrins and the Antrim hills including Slemish, St Patricks mountain, can be seen from the southern shore of Lough Neagh, in the Derrytrasna area.
I would agree that the lunar query has nothing to do with a placename.

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: GUEST,Bryony - Guest
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:09 AM

Just came back to say:- On the other hand, my eye just lit on a cassette tape by storyteller John Campbell called On the Hip of 'Sliabh Gullion' - a mountain in South Armagh by the town of Mullaghbawn - but I see others have got here before me!
Now going to the map and the rest of the words of Nellie as my interest is piqued!

Subject: RE: Valiant? Lunar? - Mountains in County Down
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:37 AM

How about "Annacloghmullin" which is apparently 6Km NW from Slieve Gulllion?

Then the verse becomes

O Slieve Gulllion mountain, it bears a great name,
Annacloghmullin mountain it is fair to be seen..."