BS: Should the US troops be thanked?

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 08:08 PM

For heavens sake, if you are not inclined to, don't bother. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 08:20 PM

Well, LH, the fact is I actually enjoy arguing with you as I find you a generally reasonable but often misguided soul. Today we have argued on two threads simultaneously without any significant name calling, and I think we serve as a fine example of gentlemanly disagreement that can be achieved here on Mudcat. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 08:31 PM

Yo ho! I echo your sentiments, my good man. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 11:13 PM

If you want to rise above mere nationalism and tribalism, however, then you must be capable of understanding that the soldier in the opposing army is just as motivated by love for those he has served beside as the soldier in your own army is, and he TOO is dying on behalf of those he loves.

In many respects, well said, LH. Remember, however, that tribalism (the parent of nationalism) has a bonafide evolutionary function also. The evolutionary dialectic is between the survival of the species and which members of the species will survive.


The abuses of government have stained the reputation of the army and those who serve in it.

It's a tough job, like any hands-on in-your-face job dealing with dangerous shit - but government have corrupted it and turned it into an weapon of aggression. How can one give 'thanks' for the abuses perpetrated by the army for corrupt government interests?

Crow Sister, Thanking an individual who serves is not synonymous with giving thanks for, or endorsing the policies of the entity through which the individual serves. One may not agree with the policies and practices of a business or corporation, but still thank a customer service representative of that business for providing good service within the limits set upon them by the policies of the company.

Regarding your comment on the reluctance of the USA to enter WWII, that is true. It also reflected the workings of a relatively democratic society not immediately threatened that needed to weigh the pros and cons of a momentous decision with profound implications for ourselves as a nation and the world. Ultimately we rose to the occasion, and quite effectively.   Our entry into the war sooner would have had little effect due to the time involved in gearing up to provide the goods and supplies to the Allies needed to wage WWII. Our industries and resources were gearing up, but were still far from the necessary developed capacity to supply western Europe and China to wage effective war when the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor.




In some ways, I envy the capacity for simplicistic moral povs of so many people on either side of the equation. I wish I were comfortable with "shoulds" and the moral certitude of absolute right and wrong implied.

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 12:04 PM

" tribalism (the parent of nationalism) has a bonafide evolutionary function also. The evolutionary dialectic is between the survival of the species and which members of the species will survive."

This is a misreading of Darwin. Tribalism is arbitrary and not essentially biological.
The more biological incentive is toward empathy and compassion. Read
Frans de Waal's recent book, "The Age of Empathy". Also, ascribing human behavior which is often manipulated by psychology to Darwin's evolutionary theory is a false interpretation.
Darwin never said anything like this in "Origin of Species".

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 12:17 PM

Darwin has probably been blamed for a whole lot of stuff he didn't say by now... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Janie
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 07:35 PM

Frank and LH,

You misunderstand what I was trying to say - probably because of my lack of ability to state my thoughts and be simultaneously accurate and succinct.

I am using the term evolutionary within the context of recent research in the fields of social psychology and the neurosciences. I am aware of this body of research because of my work. Because I have occasionally seen articles on some of this research in mass media I incorrectly assumed this information was of at least somewhat general knowledge. For me to explain would result in major thread drift. All I can say I am not citing or attributing to Darwin. My reference is to work several generations removed from the "Origin of Species."

Subject: RE: BS: Should the US troops be thanked?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 09:16 PM

Of course the troops should be supported when they do something brave and good, and castigated when they fuck up.

The politicians and generals should be supported when they make the right decision on what the troops should be doing, and castigated when they're wrong.

And the public should be applauded when they figure out what should be done.

Charley Noble