Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 29 Apr 24 - 03:20 PM

Howard Jones wrote: Whether solfa or ABC is chosen think most Mudcat users will rely on computer software to translate it into something they can use, whether that is notation or a MIDI playback. However ABC has become the standard for sharing folk tunes and a lot of folk musicians use it, and to me it would seem odd for Mudcat to choose something different.

Actually, I incline to agree with you. Most people can't really read either notation with any ease -- nor staff notation, for that matter. They aren't trying to read the tunes on Mudcat; they just want some sort of machine playback to hear the tune. And, for that, ABC is generally better.

Of course, MIDI is also better, and it lets the person who supplies the MIDI put in a true accompaniment and make the piece sound good. But the flip side is that no one can possibly read MIDI :-), and it doesn't translate to staff notation well.

Again, the point I'm making is not that any of these systems is superior to the others. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and each works best for a particular need. What I'm getting at is that we should not be arguing about which format is best. We should be arguing about what are the needs of Mudcat users, and choose the format that fits that.

You are probably right that that is ABC, because it is both relatively playable and relatively easy to convert to staff notation (sol-fa fails on the former, MIDI on the latter). But we should be asking the question first. The argument about the format follows that. :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 29 Apr 24 - 05:11 PM

People who are trained reading sheet music will be able to read ABC code in the usual keys (up to two flats or sharps), with reasonably little learning effort. The others are likely to rely translation to MIDI anyway.

Any sol-fa system is in a sense equivalent to notation in C major or A minor, which can be done with ABC as well. As I wrote before, this system has its drawbacks and idiosyncrasies, but now it's here to stay. I learned it while reading Mudcat threads and was reasonably successful with it before I ever took a look at the documentation or tutorial.

I would like to read more tunes posted in ABC notation again on Mudcat. Composers can post their own pieces as ABC code before they study and perform them, and ask for comments and advice.

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: Joe_F
Date: 30 Apr 24 - 05:28 PM

The minor scale in solfa is ltdrmfsL, with a warning necessary if one is dealing with the so-called harmonic minor, with sharped sol. I agree that that is a nuisance -- I cannot sing a minor tune in solfa without thinking (tho my mother could).

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 10:51 AM

Hi, Michael here...

Yeah, Jack has been trash-talking my tools for a while now, and he's right about lack of compatibility with some older ABC files.

I'm at the mercy of abcjs, so while I'm sorry Jack has issues with my tool, he should take it up with Paul Rosen, the developer of abcjs.

I have on several occasions suggested to he stick with whatever workflow he currently uses, but he seems to revel in trashing me and my tools.

I'm trying to work around the limitations in abcjs the best I can, but I'll be the first to admit, it may not be the best option for everyone. If you don't like it, don't use it.

On the flip side, thousand of people are using my tools each week, and the vast majority don't have the entitled attitude Jack expresses. Most actually find the tool to be very useful and probably the best sounding ABC player and tune training system available.


Michael

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 11:00 AM

If you're interested in fa-so-la Solfège, my ABC tool supports injecting Solfège note names for several systems. It's even possible to have it sing the note names:

https://michaeleskin.com/abctools/userguide.html#advanced_shapenoteshapes

https://youtu.be/vwIVW55WOB4?si=PvoT7hmV9YvYbsdu

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 11:10 AM

Also, I recently added the ability to import MIDI files directly into the tool. Your mileage may vary depending on the MIDI file creator.

You can also export MIDI from the Player in the tool along with .MP3, .WAV, as well as image export in PNG, JPG, snd SVG along with my fairly powerful PDF generator.

MusicXML import and export are also supported.

The tool is at:
https://michaeleskin.com/abc

Detailed User Guide:
https://michaeleskin.com/userguide

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 11:21 AM

If you think ABC is just for simple melodies, think again: :-)

These are all in ABC, recorded directly from my tool:

https://youtu.be/EcjPYjH1S4w?si=3KYIFvKsa3YwOQHF

https://youtu.be/ixSHCTz_pcc?si=FyueKpfm8FcXxd-R

https://youtu.be/vc_45-WFeWo?si=7wkK6T0l_ydviAZ6

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 11:31 AM

Sorry for all the messages, but I do want to address Jack Campin's assertion that somehow my custom annotations are going to pollute the pool of ABC tunes.

All of my custom annotations for things like reverb, swing, and ornamentation rendering settings used for playback are done using ABC comment based syntax. To every other ABC tool, they are No-ops.

There is zero chance of them interfering with other ABC tools, they will just ignore them.

Additionally, these custom features really are enhancements not addressed in the ABC standard for example, dealing with some of my custom playback reverb settings options, setting timing parameters for Irish roll rendering, or adding hyperlinks to tunes. My custom comment-based annotations were my way of dealing with this in a "do no harm" way.

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: GUEST,Michael Eskin
Date: 04 May 24 - 05:25 PM

By the way, I think ABC is a great way to exchange melodies.

If you're limited to text here, there really isn't a better system I can think of at this time.

It's very easy to read.

There are existing open source databases of tens of thousands of tunes that are readily searchable. I have over 65,000 traditional Irish tunes available in my tool.

You can easily generate notation or play it with many tools, including mine.

Using tools like mine you can easily transcode it to MusicXML or MIDI or transcode MusicXML or MIDI back to ABC.

It's able to represent anything from simple one-line melodies to full orchestral scores.

You can easily generate tablature from it for many instruments

It uses a very limited set of characters and symbols, so compresses well for generation of share links that actually contain the tunes, as I create for my interactive PDF tune books.

Those are just a few reasons I find ABC to be a very concise way to share tunes.

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 24 - 06:50 PM

I am very late to this discussion, but I have used the big brother to 'Melody Assistant' for decades. Melody Assistant lasted me several years before I wanted a few extra features and upgraded.

You can use Melody Assistant free for as long as you like (with some limitations on length of tune, I think) or buy a lifetime licence for $40 once you know it suits your needs.

It can import and export in ABC and MIDI and many other things, as well as produce reasonable scores.

All of the songs which I loaded onto Jon Freeman's folkinfo site, now hosted by Joe Offer, are driven by ABC which I created from Melody/Harmony Assistant.

Subject: RE: Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 May 24 - 03:21 AM

The limitations of the free version of Melody Assistant are:

no clef or time signature change, export limited to a few seconds, watermark on printed pages.

There is currently a discussion going on in abcusers about converting a score in pdf to ABC: PDF to abc Conversion

I mentioned upthread that I use David Zemsky's Sheet Music Scanner and Reader on my Android tablet to do that - it converts from pdf, the camera, or a screenshot. It's not perfect but it's cheap. But that thread mentions Audiveris - which I'd not heard of and is free.

All these tools convert the score to musicXML whence you can import it into EasyABC, Michael Eskin's webtool, and probably several other programs.
But, as Roger says on that thread, if you you can sight-read dots and mentally convert them into letters (as opposed to buttons or frets) and if you know ABC well, then you may be better off just transcribing the tune manually.