my letter to the editor

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Rowan
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:47 PM

From various of the postings above I get the impression that some people are only really familiar with contexts that don't include orchestral performances; there are many, quite different performance contexts. I'd expect any orchestra to do the procedure leeneia describes and it has all the benefits that others have mentioned; even the best environments change their acoustic brightness once the lights heat the room and the audience arrives. But I wouldn't expect a string quartet or a clarinet quintet to do it, nor any other ensemble.

I've always prefered doing the mic settings and sound checks well before the actual performance and in the absence of an audience, but in those situations there's almost always been a mixing desk out in or behind the audience, and a good mixer can do the final minor adjustments on the fly to ensure the audience gets to hear what the band thinks it is producing.

And, while I try to be professional in my endeavours, I'm well aware that the root of the word "amateur" is (more or less) "lover".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 11:54 PM

Since it was an orchestra, main question appears to be--how long did the warming-up go on? A few minutes probably--until the conductor arrived on stage. That would be standard.


Paul--

Back to the other question--the one I brought up. My point is that actually it IS important to build rapport between the orchestra and the audience--if the orchestra members want continued employment there. Orchestras (in the US, at any rate) are coming under a lot of pressure. I've read that some are effectively pricing themselves out of jobs. The audience for classical concerts is aging---rapidly. Some orchestras are merging--or even disbanding. (Big article in the Wall St Journal on this recently). Alienating audience members is just not smart. And smiling will cost nothing.

I also disagree, from experience in playing in orchestras, that the orchestra player is just an extension of the conductor's baton. Sure everybody in the orchestra is part of a unit. But it's a unit dedicated, at least in theory, to a wonderful goal--making great music on the page come alive in performance.

Again, any orchestra member who doesn't like that job should look for another--there may well be enough people who would be willing to take a well-paid, high-prestige job in the National Symphony. Somehow I don't think the positions would remain unfilled.

It would be a shame if many orchestra members share your, to say the least, jaundiced view of making music in an orchestra as a profession.





Leenia-- you also find that orchestra members at the end of the concert just stand there looking glum--as if they are sorry to have been forced to play the concert?

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 10:59 AM

"you also find that orchestra members at the end of the concert just stand there looking glum?"

I'm so far away that I can't tell, but I suspect that in most cases you are right. I believe it shows lack of stage presence.

I'm not as negative as River City's music critic, who wrote a nasty, snide review of this concert. It wasn't perfect, but it certainly didn't deserve what he wrote. I wonder wny small-city music critics seem more interested in destroying others' efforts than encouraging them?

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Alice
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 11:25 AM

All classical orchestras warm up before the concert master tunes everyone to A.
It is rude on your part to complain about it.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 11:32 AM

I used to go to the Royal albert Hall when I lived in the UK and would agree that the pre-performance cacophany was an integral part of the evening.

I was told that the tone of the instruments can be changed by the atmospheric conditions, the number of people in the hall and just by moving the instruments from one room to another. One musician once told me that some of the sound is because the musicians themselves want to get 'warmed up' and just get their muscles ready for the work to come.

Whatever the reason this warm up has always been a part of a classical music recital for me and adds to the anticipation for the music to come.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 12:12 PM

I was at Hitchin one night for Martin Carthy (I'd always been a big fan, saw him several times since the '70s) and he did exactly what Greg said earlier in the thread, tuned and tuned and better tuned ad nauseam. Sorry, but it was so bloody tedious that I lost patience and left at the break - just had to get out of there.

Martin Simpson did the same thing at Towersey last year, kept moaning on about the variable acoustics in the marquee that separated him from perfection. Has nobody told these people that it really is not so important that you can drive your audience to distraction while striving for perfect tune?

Terry

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: jeffp
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 12:33 PM

I wonder wny small-city music critics seem more interested in destroying others' efforts than encouraging them?

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can do neither, criticize.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 01:20 PM

"I wonder wny small-city music critics seem more interested in destroying others' efforts than encouraging them?"

It's much easier to write a sneering, mocking review, and make it entertaining to read. That's not just in the local press, or in classical concert reviews. Lazy critics do it in all contexts - music, films, TV, books...
.......................................

But as for your dislike of the tuning up/warming up part of the evening in orchestral concerts, leeneia, I really think you are probably in a small minority in finding it objectionable, and that most people actually enjoy it.

Might as well complain about classical musicians dressing up for the occasion, it's part of the tradition.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 01:43 PM

That's it, really, it is traditional and I wouldn't miss it, either as a violinist or audience member, for anything. Big Mick put it very well, as have others.

As for them not smiling: it is a classical concert. Yes, times have changed and it may do for them become a bit more relaxed (some already have in my experience,) but, not smiling or engaging the audience at the end, is also traditional. That's one reason it's always been called "serious" music!;->

Ah, though, wouldn't it be wonderful if we had more who followed in Leonard Bernstein's footsteps, esp. his young people's concerts?

If you don't like the pre-concert tune-ups, perhaps you should plan accordingly and slip in just as they close the hall doors.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:31 PM

Kat--

Say it ain't so. Not smiling--at the end of the concert, when the audience is giving you a standing ovation--is necessary for music to be serious?

I'm sorry to say that don't make too awful much sense.

We are a serious choral group--sing mostly in the Kennedy Center---usually do pieces along the lines of the Bach B-Minor, Brahms Requiem, Belshazzar's Feast, Rachmaninoff Vespers etc--and concentrate completely on the conductor and the music during the concert. ( Actually, we've also sung in the Albert Hall, Red Square in Moscow, the Spoleto Festival, and the Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires., among other venues.) But when the concert is over, we gratefully acknowledge any ovation--and smile broadly at the audience. As far as I know, nobody has ever complained we thereby detracted from the "seriousness" of the music.

And even if there were something to it, times are changing for orchestras--and not for the better. Having ONCE subscribed to a season, I have gotten begging letters and phone calls ever since.

I'd say that indicates a bit of financial pressure. And as the WSJ confirms, that is correct.

So it's not actually very smart for orchestras to lose ANY opportunity to connect with their audiences. And they had best see this soon. You can be deadly serious during the concert--but afterwards, it will cost nothing to smile at the audience. And in fact the concertmistress in the National Symphony does it---but no other orchestra member. And what the audience--at least part of it-- takes from that is: "Gee, it sure was a burden to do that for you. I can't believe you actually like that piece. Now please go home".

Fine, but it doesn't make us eager to hurry back.

Orchestras are already trying all sorts of rather demeaning approaches to attracting audiences--"Music From the Movies", "A Star Wars Festival"--or similar. I read about this sort of stuff a lot.

Smiling at the audience at the end of the concert, by comparison, can't exactly be seen as terrible self-abasement---and might even yield dividends.


Worshipping at the shrine of St Cecilia does not have to be a somber occasion.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:33 PM

FLASH---Jan informs me that both the London Philharmonic and the London Symphony both smile at the audience at the end of concerts.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:35 PM

too many "both"s

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 10:28 PM

Ron, all I said was it was a "tradition." I don't have a problem with folks smiling, but, in the past, it has been "trad" to be *serious.*;->

When my brother performed his classical works back East, we always smiled and engaged the audience.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 10:53 AM

They can be quite rowdy, especially at the Proms. Sometimes they clap and cheer the soloist or the conductor.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 12:00 PM

I can't speak for the string players, but if you listen to what the woodwinds are noodling before the performance it's often the phrases that put the greatest demands on your reed and embouchure. Something like that flute solo in Janacek's Sinfonietta that goes screaming into the stratosphere at unbelievable speed in A flat minor. I doubt there is a flute player in the world who wouldn't want to do a last-minute flight check for that one.

Subject: RE: my letter to the editor
From: Scrump
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:21 AM

The whole point of the pre-performance tune-up is to make sure that the performance itself goes as well as possible. I'm sure those who object to having to listen to the tune-up would be the first to complain if the performance was out of tune.

As for excessive tuning on stage, the best artists can do this while introducing the next song, or telling a joke, etc. It comes down to stagecraft.