Music practice

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:59 AM

Well any playing must be better than no playing. I keep telling my son that if he just plays his instrument it's pracice. He's given up lessons, unfortunately, so practice is even more important.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:50 PM

Don Firth - great point.
I hate to liken music to golf, which I love playing - but the more you practice the better you play.
You develop 'muscle memory" or in music, "chops", so that the technical part comes naturally, and you can concentrate on the performance.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:44 PM

My goal is fairly limited - what I want to do is to pick tunes up the neck. (For strumming up there I decided that capoing works just fine.) But I want to be able to change the resonance and timbre and depth of sound by going up the neck when that's the effect I want.

I don't have a problem in picking a tune in most keys (an exception is E. For that one I capo.) but that's mostly in pretty basic open chords. I watch some good flashy pickers go up the neck at will and I'm green. When I take my time I can do it- the fingers pretty much know where the note is but I want muscle memory on my side so I'm going to make it a matter of practice.

As you can see, success, for me, consists of short steps.

I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:26 AM

...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it - and why. If performing at a certain level for yourself or others is the goal - whether professionally or as a hobby - then practice on some sort of formal level is probably inevitable: scales; exercises; sight-reading or learning charts; ear training; what-have-you.

But..there is a rather unorthodox approach to a relationship with a musical instrument that focuses more on intimacy and is less dependent on results. It incorporates other senses that produce feelings of satisfaction that go beyond (or sidestep, if you are rationalizing) accomplishment.

You take pleasure in the feel of the wood, for example, or you like the way it smells. Maybe you are curious about how a certain passage heard on a recording is played, and so you focus on just that part of the song, and forget about the rest.

This is probably a very egocentric approach to take, but it can give just as much satisfaction as applause from a crowd, because you are doing it for yourself and you are the only judge of how well you meet your own expectations. You don't bend to another's demands upon you, and you don't need someone else's approval in the form of fame and fortune as a measure of your own musical worth.   

Which is probably good, because by all accepted standards you probably won't be worth a tinker's damn, but you don't care. You are content with becoming instead of being. Everything is a work in progress, and completing a process and calling it done feels sort of like going to a funeral.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:27 AM

Maybe you all do this-- I just realized I've been doing it for years!

I play autoharp chord progressions for individual songs.

Not the whole song, and not the whole duration of each chord until it changes-- just the progression, a stroke for each chord.

I started doing it when playing for evening worship in advance of the song coming up. I'd silently refresh my memory while the service went on around me, by just going through the chord chanfges on the autoharp chord buttons without playing on the strings. I did this especially on new material that had unusual chord patterns. I thought of it as training my fingers in the pattern necessary to get around the keys, especially the farther stretches or getting from an oft-used chord button to a far-flung one I use less often. It was a huge help to being able to do unfamiliar material smoothly. (A lot of these songs I had just heard, transcribed, and learned to sing that morning.) Now I am doing the same thing as I proof-listen to newly transposed arrangements for the band. It's like proofreading, but not so much reading as hearing.

First I play through the original-key version completely and listen to the progression while looking to see that I am actually making the chord written down at the place where I wrote the chord change. I was surprised to find that songs I have played correctly for years contain chord changes that are actually placed in the wrong spot or with the wrong chord name written in! (So I fix these.)

Then, for the freshly-transposed keys, I play just the progressions while I fast-forward through the tune in my head, to listen for whether the played chord progression fits the pattern that I just heard in the original (I, IV, V for instance). In this way I can proof all the chords quickly but accurately-- and because of this interesting thread, I realized in mid-proof that it's practice in the fingering pattern as well.

A friend of mine with bad nerve damage in her hand had been a top legal secretary-- lots of typing. The cut nerve was re-attached, and she used to include in her rehab typing in the air or on a desktop at odd moments. It cut her rehab time in half the expected number of months. She got back more sensation than the doc had said could be possible-- more fingers functioning AND feeling sensation.

So I am sure that what I am doing does indeed feed muscle memory, and that the technique can be transferred to any instrument.

Anyone else doing this?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:20 PM

I do something similar, WYSI- often when I'm waiting for a bus or have to remain in some spot for some time I'll sing or hum a tune in my head (not audibly!) and run the chords with them. There are times when I'm wrong - sometimes, for instance, it will turn out to be a C rather than an Am or a D instead of a D7- but it surprises me how often an ordinary person is able to tell without hearing a sound.

I understand that piano players often lay a banner keyboard in front of them just to practice their fingering. Somewhat the same.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: mandotim
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:37 PM

Hi Lynne! Glad you took the advice about consulting Jude re; bombardes. That woman knows more than anyone needs to about such things! Remember there is such a thing as 'passive bombarding'! Re; practice. A lot of what we play is quite fast, but I try to practice slowly, focusing on accuracy, intonation, tone and timing. I don't repeat things too often, as they start to sound stale after a while. I practice scales, arpeggios and solo patterns when I get the time, although I don't read music so this has to be by ear. I also try to vary the practice by taking tunes I normally play on (say) the mandolin, and playing them on guitar or banjo. I also try playing tunes in 'other' keys. Fast reels on a mandocello in Eb can be a challenge!
Hope this helps.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 May 06 - 04:06 PM

Lynne, I would encourage you to encourage your son to persevere with the lessons. He'll be thankful in the end. I let my son quit football because I figured even if he'd been great he only have 10-15 years of it, but musical competancy is for life.

Also, re. the singing to accompany yourself difficulty, I was in a band with a lass who played recorder and sang; just not together. There are some good songs for it. The one we did was a sixties thing called 'Strangely strange but oddly normal.' You might know it?

P

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 02 May 06 - 05:19 PM

Well all this input must be helping! Or perhaps the scales and arpegs are already showing results. We had our usual Mayday celebrations yesterday and I played with the band as we walked round the village, played for the garland dancers at the pub and played in the session afterwards. I managed to join in most of the tunes, even ones I didn't know I could play. It gave me a real buzz.

BPL I don't know that son. My son has given up the lessons, but I'm trying to make sure he continues to play his instrument. At the moment he's trying to teach himself to play guitar. I figure that Grade 5 level means he's got a pretty good grounding in music and should ensure that he will be able to play when he wants to in the future. I am sad though, that he has stopped the lessons. Still, there isn't time for everything they want to do!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 06 - 06:17 PM

"I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post."

No problem, Ebbie. It may take a couple of days of concentration, but that's a small price to pay for what you gain. If you can play scales by ear, then you're already ahead of the game.

Here's a system that one of my students worked out to help him learn where the notes are on a guitar. He'd been an engineer at Boeing, was in his seventies, and recently retired   He had never played a musical instrument before and figured now was the time. He wanted to learn a bit of classic, some folk, anything he could pick up, so I started him the way I usually do with students who are game to do it this way:   a little classic technique for openers.

He was having a bit of a problem relating the notes on the page with where they were on the guitar, so he turned his engineering-oriented mind (lotsa numbers) to the problem and came up with a neat system. By each note, he wrote a number that looked like a fraction. He broke it down for me. The top number was the string, the bottom number was the fret. Neat! Then, as he played the notes, he'd say them. "C, D, E, F," etc., until he had it down pat and didn't need the numbers anymore.

Anyway, you may already know where C, D, E and all that are on the fingerboard, but just in case you don't, here's a C scale in the first position (within the first four frets and using open strings) using his system   

(C)5/3 – (D)4/0 – (E)4/2 – (F)4/3 – (G)3/0 – (A)3/2 – (C)2/1

To extend it to cover the whole first position, (E)6/0 – (F)6/1 – (G)6/3 – (A)5/0 – (B)5/2 – (C)5/3 - (D)4/0 – (E)4/2 – (F)4/3 – (G)3/0 – (A)3/2 – (C)2/1 – (D)2/3 – (E)1/0 – (F)1/1 – (G)1/3, and you can take it back down again or just generally goof around with it.

I know this looks pretty messy, but it's really fairly simple. If we could sit down together with a couple of guitars, I could show it to you in about ten minutes.

By the way, standard left-hand fingering for any style of guitar when playing scales or single-note passages (or bass runs, which are just partial scales) is a simple open, one, two, three, four. That is, notes on the first fret played with the first finger (index), on the second string with the second finger (middle), and so on. Pretty straightforward.

Just bear with me, I'll get you there.

Once you've learn this, you know where all of the "white key" notes are (referring, of course, to the piano) in the first position on the fingerboard. That's for starters. As you move around the Circle of Fifths (good stuff on this link), with each step you have to add either a sharp or a flat (depending on which way you're going) to keep the scale structure consistent. For the bewildered, to sharp a note, take it up one fret, to flat it, take it down one.

But that's for another day. Just get the C scale down and you're on your way.

I hope this a) isn't totally bewildering; and b), actually helps.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 May 06 - 08:49 PM

"I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post."

That's a very strange comment!

In Western music - and I don't mean 'cowboy'! - it only has 7 notes A-B-C-D-E-F-G, and then it repeats. Other cultures' music may have different concepts such as 'quarter tone' notes, etc, but we'll just ignore that for the moment! Actually that comment only holds for the white notes on the piano keyboard - more on this later.

ALL SCALES (8 note scales, that is!) have the format 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. They then repeat, the '8' being the octave of the '1'. It doesn't matter whether they are Major, or Minor, etc.

The whole basis of your problem seems to be that you need to (oh dear, it's that word again!) PRACTICE the concepts I just mentioned. The Classically Trained Muso's expression "As easy as scales" is because scales ARE the basis of Western Music.

Now as to those 'black keys' - because differing Western scales types have differing placings of 'Tones' & 'Semitones', this pattern works only for starting on 'C'. If you start on any other note, you find that you need to add 'Semitones' or half notes in certain places - and you then have 'sharps' or 'flats', which fall on the black keys. Also you can start on any black key, and build the scale too.

Of course, if you look at other instruments, such as guitars, or wind instruments, you don't have black and white keys, but the concept of 'Semitones' (a single pitch step) & 'Tones' (2 consecutive pitch steps) still applies. This is why keyboard training is recommended for all Classically Trained musicians, even if they intend to play any other instrument - it just helps you get your head around some of the basic concepts.

So okay, you can 'fake it' i.e. play music, without understanding scales, but you will understand more ABOUT music of all types when you do, as well as discovering that practising scales to the point where they are an automatic 'muscle memory' response improves the technical ability of your fingers (and other bodily parts - including breath control - on non-keyboard instruments).

Similar with 'reading the dots' - you CAN make music without knowing how to do it - but when you HAVE learned it, it just makes musical life much easier (you can scan the sheet, and get the tune instantly without having someone else play it for you), and you CAN STILL PLAY MUSIC WITHOUT THE SHEET MUSIC IN FRONT OF YOU (i.e. play by ear, or from memory)!

So yes, you "should be able to readily name each note", but if you do take a second or two to work out on your fingers that the fifth note in the scale of C Major is 'G', that still counts (if you'll pardon the pun!)

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 May 06 - 08:58 PM

Oh, and arpeggios (the odd numbered notes of the scale) are the next step after scales, and a prerequisite for generating basic chords. They also build 'muscle memory'. The basis for this statement is visually obvious on a keyboard, but the concepts also apply even for single note instruments.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:43 AM

Because of the way I learned music, though I could play from the dots, I didn't know the names of the notes. We had been taught the "FACE" and "Every good boy" and that stuff when I did the few lessons when I was small, but I couldn't relate them to the music without stopping to think about it, and the notes on the recorder were just notes, not names. In recent years I've learned the names, though it sometimes does take me a second or two, if someone says "Give me an A" to work out where that is. I think it would be fair to say that I have found it useful to know the names and now that I'm progressing further with the musical knowledge I think it is beginning to become necessary not just useful.

I guess it depends on how far and in what direction you want to take your musical knowledge.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:44 AM

BTW, on Monday, for the first time ever, I felt that I could perhaps call myself a musician. That was a good feeling!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: mandotim
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:42 AM

I've heard you sing. You were always a musician.
Tim from Bit on the Side.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 May 06 - 07:05 AM

Of course, the ultimate instrument, the human voice - well, most of what I said about musical training 'in the Classical Music mould' can often be bypassed... some people are BORN singers, some are trained and some are just thrust into the background, .... ;-)

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 07:19 AM

Oh thank you Tim!! :-)

Love Lynne