BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'

Subject: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:22 PM

We in North America say "math". The British say "maths". Why?

Also, why do they put an "r" sound on the end of the word "saw", a word which contains no "r"?

Are they totally mad...or do they just do it to be annoying? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:34 PM

Give a listen to what US Northeasterners say, Little Hawk. I was amazed the first time I heard a Massachusetts man say 'drawRING' for drawing, not to mention 'idear' for idea. A friend of mine named Martha says that in the northeast she is frequently called 'Marther'.

President Kennedy said 'Cuber'.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM

Also, why do they put an "r" sound on the end of the word "saw", a word which contains no "r"?

Only (and only some people, sometimes,) when it preceeds a vowel: my saw [r] isn't sharp enough ...

Why do Canadians put an A on the end of every sentence? ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:54 PM

We DON'T do that, eh?

Oops.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:58 PM

The Brits also say "al-you-MI-ni-um" instead of "a-LU-min-um". Very odd.

John Kennedy said "shit down" instead of "sit down" too, didn't he? The "sh" sound was more subtle than it is in the common rude word, but it was there.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:59 PM

I'm a good Catholic, and I go to Maths every Thunday....


Sorry you athked?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:59 PM

I saw a (somewhat diminished) Big Band in Victoria a few years back and the bandleader introduced the next number as "Take the A Train ... or as we say in Canada, "Take the Train, eh?"

And a local DJ STILL mispronounces Sade as Shar-day ... he must have heard an English person say it and assumed he was dropping an 'r' ...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:01 PM

Yeth, but can you do your thumth?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:04 PM

Math is short for mathematic and Maths is short for mathematics, it's that easy.
Don't ask me about Mathis, it could take until the 12th of never to answer that one.

G ☻

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:05 PM

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:07 PM

Oh, I see. Well, that's reasonable.

And how does one pronounce "Sade" (the singer)?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:10 PM

The definitive form of a language is that which is spoken in the capital city.

Like Parisian French is the definitive form of French. Therefore Cockney is the defifnitive form of English.

So LH. You bloody Colonials should spend your time learning English rather than trying to make your regional dialect the norm.

So watch it mush or you'll get a bunch of fives.   

Bert **Grinning feindishly**

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Helen
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:16 PM

LH,

Some years ago I saw abrilliant tv series called The Story of English co-written & presented by Canadian Robert MacNeil - of MacNeil Lehrer Newshour fame. It was a fascinating bit of detective work tracking back English as it is spoken in various parts of the world, including specific areas of the U.S. and comparing it to the part(s) of England where people had migrated from. So there was Jamaican English, pidgin English, Oz English, etc and I remember that there was one area of the U.S. which was compared to a specific part of England in the north west, and the similarities were obvious.

BTW, Aussies often say "draw-ring" for "drawing", "idear" etc, but we say Pe-tah for Peter so if a girl is named Peta we can't pronounce it any differently than Peter.

I had an American friend who was living out here. She asked me where a street was which I had told her about. She said, "I can't find Chew-dah St in the street directory. I spelt it out for her as Tudor. She said, "You mean "Two-Door-r"? "Yes, that's what I said, Chew-dah."

Also in the north eastern state of Oz called Queensland, they often end their sentences with "eh". I don't know where they pikced that up from, eh?

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:18 PM

"why do they put an "r" sound on the end of the word "saw", a word which contains no "r"?"

It's to compensate for "rs" left OFF of other words...

"Would you like a drink of wo-tah, my deah?"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:23 PM

I thought Tudor was pronounced "TYU-door".

Bert, you are a rascal. Don't try to, like, tell us Canadians how to talk, eh? You would've, like, been in biiiig trouble if we had not built alla them Mosquito planes for youse guys back in the war, eh? And tested out them defences at, like, Dieppe, eh? You'd all be speakin' German!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:42 PM

And how does one pronounce "Sade" (the singer)?

Delectable.

You'd be in the ball park with 'Shaad, eh?' ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:45 PM

Hmmm. Nice.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:48 PM

I uthed to thuck my thumth...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:53 PM

You're a thumb-thucking, thalathious thatiryathitht!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:59 PM

The definitive form of a language is that which is spoken in the capital city.

Boise!??!?!?!??

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GLoux
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 04:09 PM

A few years ago, I was on the Metroliner from NYC to Philadelphia and was seated next to folks who were travelling to Philadelphia from Boston. One gentleman asked me if I could tell him how to get to Macket Street once they get to the station. I told him that I had never heard of Macket Street. He said that he was told that Macket Street was one of the main streets in the city. I told him I was sorry, but I honestly had no idea where Macket Street was. He said that he thought City Hall was located at Broad and Macket. Oh, you mean Market Street...we all had a good laugh at that.

-Greg

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 04:27 PM

Like the American tourist in London who hailed a cab and asked to go to Tutenkhamun, meaning the exhibition then current in London. The taxi driver then proceeded to take him to Tooting Common.
Giok ☺

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 04:37 PM

In Maine, even the dogs have a regional accent: Ba'k Ba'k Ba'k

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 05:52 PM

Oh, I was just having fun. Not serious at all.

Probably the closest to a definitive English is what they call "Educated Southern English". But who cares really.

I just love regional dialects. I think the nicest sounding dialect is spoken in Herefordshire. But that's not trying to put down anyone else.

And thanks for those Mosquitoes, they were great planes.

Cheers,

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: pdq
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 06:08 PM

"And how does one pronounce "Sade" (the singer)?"

A friend of mine who claims to be a polyglot pronounced her name "Shar-DAY". How you get there is unclear to me.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: HuwG
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 06:23 PM

I presume her name was inflected so that nobody would suspect any kinship between the singer and the Marquis de Sade.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: pdq
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 06:32 PM

Extended listening might beg a comparison, at least to some of us.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:32 PM

At American universities, if one says he is taking or studying math, it is assumed that he is majoring (specializing) in mathematics.

In a pub in Scotland, as a green tourist, I couldn't find a certain street on my map. At the next table, the group was having a lively conversation in Scots; my eavesdropping yielded nothing I could understand. With misgivings, I went to the table and asked for help. I got it, couched in perfect OED English. As with Bobert here at Mudcat, some prefer to post in their regional dialect rather than the President's English.

I was introduced to the roundelay (roundabout?) in England, where I drove around one the wrong way. The rationale for these strange affairs is beyond comprehension to an American.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:48 PM

Giok, some years ago, an American mistakenly boarded an AirNZ plane at LAX hoping to go to Oakland. He arrived in Auckland somewhat confused.

A local firm here gives away prodigous amounts of advertising stickers promoting Drury Tires. It does, a little, but they sell tyres.

Minor peeves of mine are the NOT dropping the 'H', but preceeding it with 'an', as in "An horrific accident." So common that it is accepted as correct usage, nowadays. The other is the growing practice of pronouncing grown as growun. Oddly, I've never heard anyone pronounce groan that way. Perhaps because I can't remember hearing anyone actually pronounce groan, as opposed to giving one.

EVERYONE speaks English with an accent and a dialect, even Queen Liz. She, however, has a better excuse than most, having so few English ancestors.

Little Hawk, shouldn't you in your turn be thankful to De Havilland for allowing you to develop the aircraft industry that has served you so well for so long? (You can put a ring around that, mate!)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM

"Every state is a separate star, With a different approach to the letter R." -- Ogden Nash

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Men have died from time to time, and worms have eaten them, but not for love. :||

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:55 PM

Oh, indeed, Gurney. I am thankful. I was just pretending to be an ignorant, loud-mouthed Canadian lowlife of the worst sort...the kind you find in crummy bars and pool halls. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Ken the mathmetician
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:11 AM

Isn't it amazing what different dialects of the same language can bring? What I find most interesting is not just individual words, but idioms and phrases within the language. What I find most amusing is when you translate a phrase verbatim from one language to another, the meaning is gibberish or insulting. It makes me wonder about some of the translation programs for computers really work in an attempt to create the ultimate Douglas Adams' babelfish.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Little Robyn
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:57 AM

Helen, perhaps the Queenslanders picked up the eh? from the large Maori population over there, eh?
For some reason Maori people often end a sentence with eh, even when it's not a question, eh?
Sort of as if they're asking for confirmation.
Back to the original question, that's easy - Math is singular, Maths is plural!
QED!
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:21 AM

Little Hawk, that's my kind of environment.
On the web, I try to pretend that I can speak English, and so I can, just usually not as well as I write it.

I read a history of the Mosquito just last week. It was interesting in parts, but there were a LOT of lists and graphs and I never really finished it. A work of scholarship rather than entertainment. The plane was made as outwork by little shops all over the place, even in people's front rooms. Spruce plywood, so that probably came from Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:46 AM

Anyone interested in the development of the English language should read Bill Bryson's "The Mother Tongue". It's a "can't put down", fascinating read.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:19 AM

A lot of the differences come from the varying rates of development of the language in common use. In North America the advancement in development of the language was impacted and stagnated to a certain extent by the massive influx of non-english speakers during the mid to late 1800's.

Long, long ago I can remember being told that in the very early 1900's (1905 or 1911) there was a debate in the House of Representatives regarding the adoption of German in place of English as the official language of the US. The motion was only narrowly defeated (something like 12 votes). Now if that is correct, that might have made a bit of a difference to the history of the 20th Century.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:20 AM

I get annoyed when people say a hotel, or a house. Mind you I also jump up and down when people say stadiums instead of stadia.
Why can't they spoke proper English, like wot I speaks?

G ☺

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: John O'L
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:27 AM

When I (Australian) was in California some years ago I needed to get some keys cut. I asked where I might get that done, and the guy I asked couldn't understand what I wanted until I produced some keys and made a sawing gesture. "Oh!" he said, "You want some kiisgirt!"

I guess he was thinking of Lebanese takeaways or something when trying to work out what 'keyscut' was.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:32 AM

It's no good complaining, it's our own fault, we made a total bollocks of teaching everyone our language.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM

In England it is ALUMINIUM and, for some unknown and inconsistent reason, it is ALUMINUM in the US (I don't believe the US has CHROMUM for example).

I also don't say drawring, I believe it is people hearing what is more of an aspirant sound at the end of the w sound coupled with the following vowel sound which they, erroneously, think is an R sound.

Saw and sore and soar are all homonyms English

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Nick
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:06 AM

Little Hawk

>>The Brits also say "al-you-MI-ni-um" instead of "a-LU-min-um". Very odd.

Probably something to do with the spelling of the word aluminium or do you always not sound the letter 'I' ...

Giok

Unfortunately stadiums is perfectly good English! Dictionaries offer either stadia or stadiums as valid plurals. Words that come from Latin do not necessarily have plurals in the Latin form (eg viruses/statuses etc).

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:18 AM

Reading through the various posts makes me more certain that the Bill Bryson book would be of great interest to many posters. Bill is an American, but is very well known in the UK via his books and TV appearances ( he lives - or lived - in the UK). His book - "The Mother Tongue", spends a lot of time talking about - and explaining - the parallel development of English in the UK and the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:42 AM

Guest, Ken said..."What I find most amusing is when you translate a phrase verbatim from one language to another, the meaning is gibberish or insulting."

A buddy of mine from Port-aux-Basques, Newfoundland greets with this :
"Wot ye got in yer mout me ol cock?"

Thread drift... I once complimented an elderly Portland cement concrete finisher on his work on a large concrete pour. Beautiful work, all by eye. He replied with a heavy German accent, "Finish, ya. Carpenter. Electrician. Sheet metal. I jack off all trades."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: GUEST,Janine
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:02 PM

John, If you're really posh (or archaic)you pronounce hotel as 'otel and so say an 'otel. Like hour which confusingly doesn't distinguish it from our. Very silly. I'm not sure how you write it. However only the ignorant (or confused) would pronounce house as 'ouse, so it's a house.
Janine

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: HuwG
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:31 PM

British comedian Michael Bentine was once at a dinner with a French producer, who announced, "My wife has a lovely arse". As Bentine and the other brits choked, he continued, "Yes, a beautiful arse on the Riviera, with three bedrooms and a big garden."

Bentine related the incident to fellow-Goon Peter Sellars. And so Inspector Clouseau's immortal accent was born.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:10 PM

The use of "an" as the indefinite article before a noun starting with "H" is perfectly correct usage (if a trifle archaic).
Apparently the use dates back to a pronounciation change in English from the "French" silent H as in hour, honour, heir etc. to the harder aspirated "Germanic" H as in house, hotel and hair etc.
In short,'an' is technically acceptible (but not generally used) with all such nouns while 'a' is only acceptible for those with the 'hard' H. As yes, I do still use an hundred, an historian although strangely, a hotel.

Walrus.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:14 PM

Returning to the original subject of the thread, we've sorted 'maths' and 'math'.
Do Americans study MAFS*? (I presume there is a different name these days).

W


* In my younger day, MAFS was Mathematics And Formal Statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 03:22 AM

Don't ask me about Mathis, it could take until the 12th of never to answer that one
Ask me. Mathis der Maler (the painter), by Paul Hindemith. Sinfony 1934, opera 1938.

Merry Xmas to y'all!.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: Terry K
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:56 AM

If Maths really is plural, wouldn't you have to say Maths are plural?

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Math' or 'Maths'
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:04 AM

Maths.