BS: Assange release

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 01:06 PM

The Scots ‘Not Proven’ verdict seems to have fallen very much out of use nowadays, and there appears to be a move afoot to take it out of legal use…

Scottish consultation on the ‘Not Proven’ verdict option.

It would save confusion IMHO.

My own view of Assange’s Wikileaks activity is that, amongst other things, he shone a light on evidence that it’s not just ‘the other side’ who fight dirty. I see that as a good thing. I’m going from memory here, and it’s been a long time so, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 02:00 PM

Y’know whose life was wrecked by WikiLeaks? That of Private Bradley Manning, as she then was.

Now, Manning may well have been the world’s worst soldier, poor thing, but she would never have come to such harm if she had, like Daniel Ellsberg, approached a real journalist employed by a real news organisation with principled management and based in a country with real press freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 02:34 PM

She never would have come to such harm if she had not leaked any documents to anyone. Yes, I accept she was naive but her actions were her own choice. She, like Assange, did wrong and has paid the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 02:44 PM

Just be sure to lock up your daughters, Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 03:02 PM

Like I said earlier, gillymor, he was never tried, let alone found guilty, of any sex offences. That type of comment just adds to the trial by social media I have been railing against.

Now how about sticking to the proven facts of his leaks rather than speculation about his alleged sex offences.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 03:05 PM

No idea why you're defending that scum, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 03:16 PM

I'm not defending him, gillymor. Just pointing out the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 05:42 PM

If we took a poll sure we would all have different opinions, but I did not express an opinion on his guilt or innocence regarding the rape and sexual assault charges.

I stated the facts that:

* he had been charged
* he was granted bail
* he skipped bail
* the Swedish court decided after many unsuccessful years of pursuing him that the court case would not proceed
* evidence for the Prosecution and the Defence would therefore not be presented
* he therefore would keep the tag of "presumed innocent" only because the trial did not proceed

If I were to express an opinion about his Wikileaks activities it would be this:

I personally am of the opinion that those activities were not altruistic but that his prime motivations were to benefit himself, possibly mainly to attain fame and/or fortune.

I will also offer my opinion that the lawyer who has now borne his children will possibly not still be in a relationship with him in the foreseeable future because she has now served his purposes.

When he was holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy I was reminded of one of the later episodes of the Brit TV show called Spooks (aka MI5) where a man had chosen to take refuge in an embassy but the clever spooks managed to get him out. It was just a matter of time for Assange to wear out his welcome at the Ecuadorian embassy.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: JennieG
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 06:28 PM

I suppose it's just a matter of time until the book comes out. Next it will be the film....then the musical of the film.....then the stage show of the musical of the film.....and so on, ad nauseum.

I can hardly wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 06:56 PM

We're already halfway there, JennieG. Every time I look at the news, or turn on the TV there it is. Even a headline about people watching a footy match on a big public TV screen was really about Assange arriving in Canberra.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 07:59 PM

Dave the Gnome: If Pte Manning had approached a journalist from, say, the New York Times, and if that journalist had convinced his editors to accept her materials, the paper would have shielded her identity.

That journalist might also have had the experience to warn her of the minefield she was walking into. Manning was a badly disturbed and uniquely vulnerable person, and a genuine, established news organization would have had resources to protect her.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jun 24 - 08:11 PM

Charmion, I agree with everything you have said on this thread.

It's my opinion that Assange threw Pte Manning under the bus.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 05:13 AM

Sorry Helen but your exact words were

The only reason the rape charges were dropped was because Assange was avoiding facing all of the different allegations against him by hiding away in the Ecuadorian embassy, i.e. being a whimpering little mouse and not a real man who faces the consequences of his actions

Which looks remarkably like you expressing "an opinion on his guilt or innocence regarding the rape and sexual assault charges." I did question your phrasing at the time but you chose not to answer. If you are now saying that you believe he deserved a fair trial, fine. Otherwise it seems like you are aligned with the lynch mob who are condemning him without the benefit of a hearing.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 07:04 AM

Facts are that he fought extradition to Sweden to tooth and nail he never had his day in court and, sadly, his accusers never had theirs. Given his unethical and criminal tactics as a so-called journalist I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him so I hope people are aware of these unresolved rape charges so no one else is harmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 07:13 AM

I left out a comma in that last post but never used the words guilty or innocent. Better safe than sorry around creeps like him.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 10:32 AM

The person who IS best informed and who has studied evidence is the DPP. LYNCH MOBS and trial by media, BELONGS to the days when women were persecuted as witches

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 11:08 AM

"Lynch Mob" implies that I want some harm to befall this creature. Not so, nor do I want his rights infringed upon. I just want women to be aware of these unresolved rape allegations so they can make an informed decision about how they might want to interact with him.
Now it seems like we've beaten this one to near death so, gilly out.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 11:25 AM

I'm pretty sure that everyone who has not been living in a cave for the last few years is well aware of the controversies surrounding Assange. Our opinions of him are irrelevant. In the eyes of the law only the facts matter and I believe all his games are over. For now!

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 01:05 PM

More information than you are likely to want on the protracted legal wranglings surrounding the Swedish investigation and extradition request.

From Wikipedia

Assange v Swedish Prosecution Authority

Subject: RE: BS: Assange release
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 02:36 PM

I don't think of Assange as a hero in any sense of the word, but from the previous link to Wikipedia, it's clear that he can be thought of in that way if you like Ayn Rand.

---

That's a good stopping point. We don't need another long-running argument thread. ---mudelf