Tech: Substitutions for Nero?

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: eddie1
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:32 AM

I use the free version of RealPlayer for burning CDs. I don't find it at all intrusive and it's pretty speedy.
BillD mentions Media Monkey which I also have for one feature. It allows you to print out a tracklist. As I make up two composite CDs for a 3-hour radio show each week I find this facility invaluable.

Eddie

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:44 AM

Windows, at least from WinXP on, claims to provide "drag and drop" CD burning, although I haven't given it much of a try.

While Nero has been a preferred program for audio (and perhaps now for video), as has been noted nearly every program you add to do one thing feels compelled to do everything, so more recent versions may compete with each other to index everything and report everything you do to "the web."

With older versions, I found Roxio much better than Nero for burning data files; but when I was forced to get a newer version for Vista it's been "Neroed" for multimedia and totally flunks out on data. One difficulty is that my new Roxio cannot be set back to less than 24X so you can't force a "slow burn" - which seems to be pretty much necessary for reliable data burns.

CD and DVD data file burning performance has been so poor with both Vistactimized Nero and Roxio that I've given up on optical disks and just use portable external hard drives for backups and archives.

(It was getting hard to find stuff quickly on those 800 archive CDs anyway.)

Obviously, for media stuff, you do need a good burner. I don't do much of that, but I'll watch to see who the winners are here. And I'd be particularly interested if someone finds a really good data file burner (which probably would be crap for media if it does what I need).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: GUEST,Gus
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:28 AM

DaveO: To put hard drive files onto a CD, you first have to convert the files and folders into a mass of 1's and 0's that will look like files and folders on a CD. That's an "image" of the CD.

Then you can burn that image to the CD, or you can save it on the hard drive as a "disk image file." That's the 'one big lump' you mentioned. If you burn an image file to a CD, Windows Explorer won't show you the image file on the CD as a single file; it'll show whatever files and folders were used to create the image file.

Some burning programs do it in two steps:
1. pick all the files you want to put on the CD and make a disk image file out of them; and
2. burn that image to the CD.
You can think of the disk image file as an intermediate stage.

Even programs that don't require the two-step process usually have it as an option. It may reduce the risk of errors to do it that way. If you do it all in a single step, that's called burning "on the fly."

Full Nero can do everything on the fly. But there are all sorts of partial Nero packages that are given out for free with burners. They try to make a nuisance of themselves so you'll want to buy the full package.

The free program I use, InfraRecorder, can copy files to a CD on the fly, but not to a DVD. I have to make a disk image file first, and then burn that to the DVD.

I've never been able to figure out how to get ImgBurn to do anything except burn an image file to a CD or DVD. I can't figure out how to get it to convert a set of hard drive files into a disk image file, or to do anything on the fly. After reading what everyone wrote here, I tried again, but it's over my head.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:25 PM

Now IF anyone should wish a genuine backup program, I can recommend Cobian

This is the sort of thing you'd use to do as John in Kansas suggests...to backup files or drives to an external hard drive....(or even a 2nd internal drive.)

Cobian is an incremental backup, with setting you control. This means it will make a copy of what you wish, then next time you run it, it will ADD whatever is new....ignoring what it already has. After a certain amount of time, you can start over (disks DO get full, and you may have deleted some of the original stuff)

Cobian is well respected and has been used for many years...by ME for about 3 years.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:29 PM

That link isn't working.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:55 PM

No? Strange...works for me.... just Google "Cobian"...it can be found several places.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:10 PM

Bill D -

I "segregate" the files I need to back up, on my own system drive in a folder C:\BUP\, on one permanently connected drive K:\, and (so far as I can get cooperation to do so) in a shared folder on each of the other computers on our LAN.

Each of the shared folders not directly connected to my machine is mapped as a drive on my local machine.

When I plug an external USB drive into my machine it appears as a new drive, perhaps M:\.

At a command prompt, M:\ switches me to the backup drive.

CD CBUP puts me in the folder M:\CBUP\ folder where I want to backup files from C:\BUP\

The simple command (including the location shown at the command prompt - M:\CBUP>):

M:\CBUP>XCOPY C:\BUP\*.* /s /d /c

does exactly what your backup program does.

The /s tells it to copy everything in subfolders in the source.

The /d tells it to copy only things that are newer on the source than in the existing target folder.

The /c tells it to "continue on error" so that if it hits one of those rare "copy protected" files it skips that one and continues copying. (Most external drives have a "System Volume Information" folder that can't be copied easily, and the /c lets the process skip over those, and one of my "other users" has one !$@#! mpc file that's DRM protected so once a backup copy has been made it blocks any further copying.

Windows, at least since XP and probably Win2K, also has a command prompt thing called "ROBOCOPY" (for Robust Copy) that's apparently even more "powerful" than XCOPY but it requires "scripting" for some things that XCOPY can do with switches, and the script format/requirements are only vaguely described in documentation that I've found thus far. I haven't had a spare empty backup hard drive to test it on, so I haven't played with it.

The "backup" in Vista Business, Premium, and Multimedia versions includes a "synchronize" that offers the ability to automatically keep two drives "identical." (It's not in Home versions.) This lets you automatically remove files from the backup if they've been deleted on the source; but it opens the possibility that a file accidentally deleted (or corrupted) on one drive will be deleted from both. Microsoft's only instructions on backup - and especially on sync - are limited to "I am the Lord thy Microsoft. Trust me." and I'm not quite that true a believer, especially since the two separate prior cases where Microsoft backups were true "backups to WOM."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:14 PM

It came up this time. Maybe they were offline momentarily.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:44 PM

John... I realize that there are several ways to do many of these things...(Dick Greenhaus regularly informs me how easy it is to do stuff in DOS *grin*)....but my head simply resists adding the command line formulas to my already crowded GM¹ drive. For better or worse, I am a GUI weakling. I also do not take to music theory or auto repair (beyond changing the oil) [though I can get in and drive almost anything.] {but ask me about woodworking!}


1)Grey Matter

It's amazing how different our various minds work...and how fortunate it is that there DO exist ways to cope that admit these variations. It is always relevant for you to post & clarify not only the alternatives, but clear explanations of WHY it works. (Several years of info on how fonts & the myriads of characters operate have helped me personally a lot!)


I have just recently added flash drives to my 2 Iomega external HDs to move, save and run various files. I am going to read about ROBOCOPY and see if it is something I can follow...

Thanks for all the effort!

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:40 PM

The "help" on Robocopy informs that for some things a "script" is needed, and apparently the script consists of a text file with instructions in it for what the Robocopy routine should do.

It appears to be quite powerful, and would be of great utility to an IT manager who needs to run the same changes to a number of devices, but the requirements for what goes into a script (and what doesn't) are sufficiently vague that I've been reluctant to make much of a try at using it - especially on a backup drive that already has a couple of million files on it. And some things that you can do with the older XCOPY with a couple of switches "/x" appear to require you to write a script in ROBOCOPY(?).

At a command prompt: "ROBOCOPY /?" (without the quotes) will get you the basic "definition." There isn't a lot more in Microsoft's help files or Knowledge Base that I've found.

If you run the similar: "XCOPY /?" the description will tell you that you should use ROBOCOPY instead, but the "setup" to run XCOPY, with the few useful switches, is quick and does what's generally needed for a "cumulative backup" where you don't need to remove files from the backup that have disappeared in the source.

I find it easy enough to just type the XCOPY command^*, but if you wanted it's quite easy to make a text file containing the "XCOPY F:\*.* /s /d /c" and save as a text file - something like FBACKUP.txt - in the target folder. Change the .txt to .bat, and when you double click the FBACKUP.bat (In Windows Explorer) it will open the command prompt window, run the command, and then (usually) close the command prompt window, and with only a little luck you'll be all backed up (maybe not even painted into a corner).

I'd recommend, for simplicity, a separate .bat in each target folder with the proper source inside and with a filename that suggests what it's going to copy, although you could put all of them in one place, if you put the full path for both source and target in them. You could also combine several source/target pairs into a single .bat; but sometimes not all the sources are hooked up when I want to back up just one or two.

^* I back up about 8 different drives/folders, each to a separate folder on the backup drive, usually at least once a week, and alternate at least two backup drives, so it gets easier to remember the keystrokes. My fingers do most of it by muscle memory - - usually.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:00 PM

I 'know', as in see posts from, a guy on the freeware newsgroup, who had recommended xcopy...and maybe 'xxcopy' or some such, for years. It all seems opaque to me, but my wife used DOS professionally for years, and I'm sure she could figure it out.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:55 PM

Bill D -

There are only a few DOSSY commands (technically, they're not really DOS anymore) that I still use fairly frequently, and some old-timers might get in trouble trying to use old ones that have been removed or changed. There also have been lots of add-on programs "back when more people used DOS" that are "DOS-like" but that did other things for people too lazy to learn the proper use of the usual ones.

There are a few things that are very easy to do with the command prompt that are really clumsy to achieve directly in the Windows "graphic interface," and with Vista there are more things that can only be done with the command prompt.

A bit of familiarity is highly recommended, but if you're uncomfortable with using them there's the old standard advice - - "don't bother."

Of course having a family member who is proficient enough to be helpful, and not using the available resource perhaps speaks to a failure of communication on which I will not comment lest I interfere in the fragile stability of someone's interpersonal relationships ....

(Sorry - couldn't resist. And members of a "healthy family" do not necessarily share all the interests of all the other members; and some subjects are best not discussed with dear ones - but of course you two do talk to each other?)

(I'd put a "wink" emoticon here, but you probably use some strange font that would make it look like someone being strangled.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:10 PM

everything looks great in Palatino Linotype!

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:10 PM

[sigh]

There are times when I wish it was possible to see and/or use the old DOS commands (without jumping through a lot of hoops to get there). Though sometimes opaque if you were learning a new function, they were usually pretty straightforward and very tidy.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:48 PM

Stilly -

If you're really interested you might try:

Command-line reference A-Z at the Microsoft Tech Net.

This "index" is returned in Vista Help as being "specific for WinXP" but is pretty much applicable from Win2K thru at least Server 2003 and Vista.

It includes lots of stuff that's a bit beyond "DOS commands" you're likely to need, but one can browse for hours ... or days ... or weeks.

In most cases, if you know the command name you can type it into a Command Line window on your own machine, followed by "/?" and you'll get the same info as given at the link. The problem is knowing which command to type in.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:05 PM

In my Vista Business, Help on the Start menu, search for "command line" brings up some results that include a "Command Line Help for IT Pros," leading to the link in the previous post, along with several other things that range from helpful to inscrutible. There's another link, similar to the one in the post above, for Command Line Help for Server 2003 that might be interesting for some of our people who really are "IT Pros." The link goes to somewhere in the middle, but the left sidebar allows some navigation.

Some stuff at Tech Net is blocked for copy/save, but I think the pages linked offer a "printable" and if not you can usually highlight, Copy, and then paste some notes to Word or Notepad.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 11:31 PM

Poking around looking for Bill's recommendation for "Super" (link is above) so thought I'd bring this back up to the top. There are some useful links in here.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Girl Friday
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 06:32 PM

Seems nobody has mentioned MAGIX. We used to use Nero, but it wouldn't work with newer compuiter. Now using MAGIX 2004. So far, all we have copied has been on audiotape. Vinyl to follow.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 03:43 PM

Is this a free download or a program you purchased, or is it one that comes as both?

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 07:44 PM

A search shows MAGIX as a music editing program. Sometimes these will also do burning, but this would hardly be a substitute for Nero.

MAGIX seems to be shareware, as it gets a few hits on Torrent downloads.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 01:55 AM

Without reading every post, has anyone mentioned
CDBurnerXP yet? I've used it for several years now, and though it's slower than Nero as I remember it (last used with Windows 98), it is free and reliable.

Subject: RE: Tech: Substitutions for Nero?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:24 AM

I have a Blu Ray burner drive on my computer but realized recently that it won't play blu ray movies. I'm looking for a player (I probably need to start by looking in the box, there might have been some software on a disc). Anyone using a PC blu ray player (I use Win7 Ultimate) or a ripper (DVDFab, etc.)?

SRS