King Arthur needs your help

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:20 AM

Another angle to remember is that by some legends Arthur is the once and FUTURE king. Perhaps when he comes back he'll develop a taste for DEVO. :)

Seriously, the thing I most remember about welsh audio video presentations, (of which I saw 2 in my travels) was the sense that they were of the past and the future and the quiet romantic threat that Snowdonia would rise again. You can take the reasonable approach that more modern music is equally valid as it simply prepares for Arthur's return.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Pied Piper
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 07:33 AM

Rex quondam rexque futurus.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 09:50 AM

lox, the one who posed the question, seems to have gone away, perhaps to locate some Renaissance dance music. I still think my idea about tunes composed on the black notes of the piano was the best one.

Peter & Amos, I enjoyed your posts.

Art, how did you get that italicized print in your post?

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 03:58 PM

for italics do theis in front

and this after

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 03:59 PM

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:00 PM

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:01 PM

Leenia, it's the same as the line breaks except you use i inside the greater than/less than brackets.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:05 PM

sorry----it won't print the symbols in the post without causing the effects...

Check out the threads on HTML and how to encode for the various print options.

Art

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:38 PM

For italics, precede the text with [i] (using the angle brackets over the comma and period instand of square brackets), and follow the italic text with [/i], the same substitution being made, to turn off the italics.

By the way, if you want BOLD PRINT, use the letter B in place of the letter I.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 07:24 PM

Play anything but the so-called Renaissance Music being put out by Ritchie Blackmore, formerly of Deep Purple. In fact, since nobody knows what real Arthurian music would have sounded like, just play Deep Purple! With a few judicious lyric changes "Smoke on the Water" would work really well for an Arthurian theme park!

Bruce
(Who once managed to sleep through an entire Deep Purple concert)

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 08:41 AM

ANd this thread started from a serious, reasonable question. Peter T, I'm still giggling and I haven't even had my morning coffee.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 09:00 AM

What good does it do to pose a seriuos, reasonable question if you don't listen to the answers? (Thanks for the tips on using italics, all.)

Late last night I went to the piano and used the black keys to improvise a lovely Arthurian air. We know it was lovely because my husband said it was great. Coming next, a rousing march...

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 07:30 AM

If you want a modern song referring to King Arthur and the legend that he still sleeps and will return one day, try Pete Coe's song "The Wizard of Alderly Edge". After all it would provide a transition from the present to the past. The only trouble is of course that Alderly Edge is in Cheshire !

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 09:55 AM

When did the hammered dulcimer reach the British Iles? It is supposed to be several thousand years old.

Subject: Lyr Add: MERLIN'S SONG (from Graham & Eileen Pratt
From: Hecate
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:14 AM

Authenticity issues aside, there's a very cool song that Graham and Eileen Pratt do: MERLIN'S SONG. It's on the album "Lark in the Clear Air."

Born to an age of reason
Mystery is my name
Mine is the song of seasons
Mine is the ancient dream.
Some men have called me holy,
Others the devils son
I do as much as has always been done.

Magic is all too simple
Mystery all too plain
I have the power of magic
Like clouds have the power of rain
Read me the spell of knowing
Sing me the charm of sleep
Open your eyes and you'll learn where to seek.

Soldiers seek my fortune,
Princes seek my fame,
Wise men seek my friendship
Foolish men seek my name.
Princes have seen my glory,
Harlots will see my fall
I see the end and beginning of all.

Soldiers all wrapped up in armour
Die by the dagger's thrust,
Harlots all wrapped up in envy
Perish for none to trust.
Clothed as I am in magic,
Magic must be my fate,
Silently by my own magic, betrayed.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:46 AM

One could worse than seeking the soundtrack to one of my all time most beloved pieces of British sreenplay & performance in film: the film expansion of the play "A Man for All Seasons". ( Amazingly not *yet* available on DVD, but with the publication of the series of "Elizabeth R" and "Six Wives of ol Hereri the 8th I yam, I yam", there's hope for this beauty )

The soundtrack is very much an integral *presence* ,however "Renaissance-tinged" , and evokes more of the spirit than the Wagner chosen in John Boorman's "Excalibur".

I mean you're makin' a historic documentary. It's a theme park , right,right,?...meaning it's still showbiz. However y'all can acheive showbiz with style and grace as the soundtrack to "A Man for All Seasons" proves.

Meanwhile nearby us in Maryland they are now holding one of the largest Renaissance Festivals in the U.S. all through the Autumn season and the music is played live & on site . I'm looking forward to the Scottish theme weekend which , last time I attended , atleast 3 pipers and 2 drummers playing folk drums dressed in rather tribal kilts and skins playing traditional pieces that , when the echo throughout the hollow , sounds absolutely haunting and beautiful.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 02:12 PM

An instrument occurs on an ancient mesopotamian stone carving which has been interpreted as a hammered dulcimer by some scholars. However that may be, the European hammered dulcimer seems to be an independent invention, developed from the psaltery.

The gregorian psalm-tones seem to be stable as far back as we have notation for them. So projecting them back into the period of the British v. English wars is reasonable.

A lyre was recovered from the English burial at Sutton Hoo. This is not too long after sub-Roman period in Britain. Placing a Saxon lyre in the hands of a barbarian character of the Arthurian age is also reasonable. Since lyres were known in the Mediterranean world also, it would be a plausible act of historical reenactment to place a Greek-style lyre in the hands of a British character.

Instruments documented in the Roman world several centuries before the target period are discussed here. Documenting them for sub-Roman Britain may not be possible; but the other side of the same coin is that it is hard to deny the possibility.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 02:48 PM

Thanx all -

Leeneia - Unfortunately I do not own a piano and am therefore unable to play the black keys on it. If I had one I am sure it would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

Alas, I must take the hard road and make what use I can of the accumulated knowledge the rest of you have made available to me.

I had no idea that Peter T was so familiar with the subtleties of medieval broadcasting. I see the beginnings of a spoof swashbuckler in the making. I hope I get the chance to read it someday.

Mention of deep purple had the unfortunate effect of reminding me of Rick Wakemans extravaganza "arthur on ice" (Involving too much acid, a synthesizer, and some iceskaters dresed up as horses ... very spinal tap - only real ...)

Micca - you are a genius - I like the simplicity of your theory, and it helps to pinpoint the actual period in which Arthur is likely to have lived. So - when did the bronze age end in Britain? Are we talking about BC or AD?

Sigurd - You have broadened the scope of this search by identifying the multitude of possible representations of arthur available to us.

Walrus - thanx for the links

Alanabit + Peg - I fear that you will get your way. It is probable that the hollywood interpretation will endure, as sickening a prospect as it might be.

Uncle DaveO - Roman influence - superb ... Add a little of pied pipers advice and suddenly you have something to research

GUEST - Good info about the lyre

In the meantime, keep the sugestions coming, they are all useful and valuable.

As for where and when the theme park will be opened - Sorry I haven't got the faintest idea.

Cheers folks - keep it comin'

(I haven't been to the mudcat for a while, but I used to "come-a-lot" (sound of retching from collapsed pipes)

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 02:58 PM

Bloody internet!

That was me taking my whole life to "submit message" - I love my server.

Anyway - thanks again.

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Julia
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 04:12 PM

How about those big honkey horn things the Celts used in battle- they look like dragon periscopes and can wake the dead. I think they are called something like "carnyx" Definitely Harps whistles and drums

Re: Contemporary Arthur stuff, check out Anne Lister, an English songwriter- great songs. I'm sure she has a website

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Julia
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 04:14 PM

How about those big honkey horn things the Celts used in battle- they look like dragon periscopes and can wake the dead. I think they are called something like "carnyx" (Maybe they'll awaken Arthur himself....?!) Definitely Harps whistles and drums

Re: Contemporary Arthur stuff, check out Anne Lister, an English songwriter- great songs. I'm sure she has a website

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:56 PM

Each time they have a tourney
I get so blown away
'Cuz I am so afraid
Pendragon will win the day!
...Each night I ponder, and wonder on this:
Why must I beeeee a youth in the lists?

Shaking my bones?
Breaking my lance?
When all I really wanna do
Is take you to the dance?
Wohhohhwoh.....

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: Helen
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 03:17 AM

What leeneia is suggesting is that you use the pentatonic scale, which is based on 5 notes in the scale and not the more usual 8 notes. The nice thing about pentatonic scales is that every note harmonises with every other note in the scale which makes improvising and chord playing easy. But, there are huge numbers of tunes built around this scale.

There have been a number of Mudcat threads about tunes written in this scale.

You don't need a piano to do it. For example, in the Key of C major, the 5 pentatonic notes are: C, D, E, G, A. The notes in the key of Am pentatonic are: A,C,D,E,G. The notes are the same but the starting note (the tonic) is C in the C major scale and A in the A minor scale. (A minor being the relative minor scale to C.) You can transpose these major and minor scales to any other key.

I just did a Google search and this is one of many sites which showed up. That site refers to the Blues Pentatonic scale as well. http://www.zartmo.com/guitarlibrary/am_pentscale42.html

Another -related - idea is to try composing tunes in different modes. There have also been a few Mudcat discussions on modes/modal music.

Try doing a Forum search from the main Mudcat Forum page for each of the following terms: pentatonic, modes, modal

Helen

Subject: RE: King Arthur needs your help
From: hesperis
Date: 31 May 03 - 05:51 PM

PeterT and Amos, I curtsey to your wit, kind sirs!

Deep Purple as Arthurian - "Swoooooooooooord in the waaaaaaaaaaater! Lady of the Lake..."
(A very, uh, cerebral rendition of the tune...)

Anyway, I would definitely be interested in composing for this project once we have some further information on preferred instruments. Some of my work will be up at http://worlds.serpentgoddess.org