Tech: PCv/s MAC

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Stu
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:58 AM

"As Macs become more popular, the quality will erode"

And the evidence for this is?

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:07 AM

"As Macs become more popular, the quality will erode"

As the sales for Macs continue to spiral upwards ... and all indications are there that they will ... the demand for these platforms will put considerable pressure on production .... either the cost will have to go up, which would put a kibosh on market growth or Apple will start eroding some of the quality aspects of the product to meet the demand of sales and keep the profit levels as high as they can. I doubt very much they can continue to keep the quality level as it is and satisfy the growing market share.

Regarding 'track records' .. An object will continue to move at a constant velocity, unless a net force acts on it.

biLL

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:13 AM

The expression "economy of scale" seems to contradict the notion that increased volume requires lower quality and increased cost. I think this apparent phenomenon is a matter of quality standards adhered to by the organization.

And, as an aside, neither Steve Jobs nor any of his employees are moving objects, subjects to the rules of NEwtonian mechanics. They never could have accomplished what they have, were they such.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:55 AM

Regarding "quality standards adhered to by the organization." ... organization including the share holders who weigh a lot of influence regardless of the employees's vision .... we see evidence in todays world were the market demand is diminishing quality in a lot of goods we buy ... quality has been sacrificed for profits.

Newtonian mechanics can be applied to Apple (than again, the shareholders) ... it happened with IBM's PC's. Once they were high quality products ... eventually (as the market demand put pressure on production) they became more of a "pain in the butt" due to defincencies in quality ... eventually it was easier for IBM to sell that division off to Lenovo than try to regroup and bring the quality back to it's previous level and meet the market demand. Another good example is Volvo .... they certainly aren't of the same quality as they used to be.

biLL

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 12:14 PM

Doesn't the fact that Mac users love their computers, and everyone else says, "It gets the job done" tell you something?

The latest thing I love about my Mac (OS 10.4) is Dashboard, which allows me to put any of about 2500 "Widgets" on my desktop--I've currently got weather, my date book, Starry Night(which shows me that Jupiter is about 20 degrees above the horizon,about 2 minutes shy of due north, with Mercury about 5 minutes East of due north), and a bar that shows me the status of everything in my system. (I am going to add a radio widget so I can listen to my Pandora channels)

Since you have a lot of funny videos, Kendall, you might be interested to know that I have just downloaded a bunch of video clips from my camera, which I am about to upload to my video iPod--I have also got "Yellow Submarine" on the iPod, which I ripped from a DVD with software that is part of the Utilities bundle, and converted to a smallish MP4 file(the clips from my camera were already Mp4s)--all drag and drop--and all easier to do than to explain.

Sorry if this sounds like a sleazy product endorsement-I don't generally do this sort of thing, but I felt like it needed to be said, to give some idea of what the Mac experience really is--

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 12:17 PM

Entropy -- and opportunities to emulate it -- abound in this wicked world. Creative energy and ethics, however, can still offset it. No one is obliged to organize along entropic lines. Jobs certainly does not.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 12:24 PM

Number 6, you're grabbing at straws--you didn't buy the Mac, and now you've got a bad case of buyer's remorse. You could have even had a second chance, if you'd just given your new PC to your son--to quote the old song, "How Long, How Long....?";-)

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 12:51 PM

"Doesn't the fact that Mac users love their computers, and everyone else says, "It gets the job done" tell you something?

Yeah .... fanatical cultists vs rationally minded people !

*joking*


Mr. Ted ... in some ways you are correct ......... naw, I made the right decision, you Mac peeple got it all wrong!

biLL

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:58 PM

I've used Wintel boxes and Macs.

I've never fallen in love with an operating system or a package, though I have fond memories of Windows NT.

I'm a bottom line sort of techie.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:06 PM

I think there are, perhaps, two different ways of approaching a job of work. Creative souls take delight in tools that let them create the effects they intend, and those who are less creative but more oriented around efficiency just like a tool to get the job done. Either type will do better in the long run with Mac's general higher degree of reliability, but the sheer beauty of the interface design and many of the design features will be lost on the less inspired types.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:21 PM

Geeeesh Amos !

Then there are those who really couldn't give a rat's ass about the interface design of their platform, but just take the pleasure ongetting their inspiration from a concept to an object of completion.

In my case I've been inspired to take a foto of a 'something' ... I then download that 'something' from my camera to my computer 'platform' .. I then work on that 'something' via a foto tool application on that 'platform' to an object recognizble by me from that original moment of inspiration. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass on what the hell is in that platform, I just give a rat's ass on that platform's capability to deliver. A jpg is a jpg to either a Mac or a PC

In short, my PC does the job. That's all I care about in a computer.

biLL

:)

biLL

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:41 PM

Just as an aside: I downloaded my first attempt at LINUX recently...a 'live CD' version of Knoppix. It fits on one 700 MB CD and works fine..I just need to get used to the file structure. I might be doing a partitioned dual-boot drive one of these days.

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:33 PM

On the point that an elegant user interface isn't always important, I'll point out that there are even a lot of people around who disdain a GUI, and look askance at anyone who can't do everything with command-lines--here's a random quote that I found when I googled "I hate GUI's":

" ...ultimately what's wrong with a GUI: A GUI will only let you do what the GUI's programmer envisioned you needing to do, and programmers frequently have no idea what administrators need.

That's why command-lines are better: They're infinitely more flexible. I would even go so far as to say any command-line, even Cmd.exe, is better than a GUI when it comes to hardcore administration."

To each his own... but I still love my Mac.

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM

It all depends on whether or not you want to do what the computer lets you do.

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:24 PM

What makes a good UI is that it makes it easy to do most of what YOU want to do. The Mac does this. In addition, if ever want to wander into the deep complexities of grepping or some such, I have a superb command line interface at the click of a button. Much friendlier than the Run==>Command++>etc. interface that won't let you copy, back-scroll, paste, etc.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:28 PM

I think you have given me enough info, so I'm outta here. Thanks to you all.

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:30 PM

Do you have bash or similar, Amos?

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:37 PM

Not to worry. Have just answered my own question: http://developer.apple.com/internet/opensource/opensourcescripting.html

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:55 PM

I have the whole range of UNIX commands if I need them; but that is rare. I can do shell scripts and so on. I don't spend much time in the low-level command structure these days.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:44 PM

Thanks for your advice Mted and Amos.. but regarding the Mac crashing problem.. This isnt just the latest mac we have, weve had 3 generations.
over the past 10 years. They all crashed frequently - far far more than our pcs..
I Know its more elegant but weve just had bad luck with them..
Petr

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: elfcape
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:38 PM

Have you got enough RAM? It still matters, but even then I've never known a Mac to crash. Maybe an application gets confused because you tell it to do something and don't give it a chance to do it before you tell it to do the next thing. Safari once in a while for me becomes unresponsive and I had my TiBook get very cranky this week because I added a new FireWire external drive and it was still formatted for PC.

Generally when my Mac slows down under X.4.9 I just quit all applications and restart and that restores things to normal.

There are also things like unresponsive web servers that make one think the Mac has the problem, but normally Safari or Mail will ping a site for at least a minute before you get the error message about the site's server being unresponsive.

Sending large files to some desktop printers is not a particularly speedy process.

I do have an impatient friend who, when something doesn't happen immediately, clicks on menus and buttons and the desktop, sort of like drumming her fingers on the desk, and then the poor Mac tries to remember all those little commands and that really slows things down.

Have you talked with people about what you were doing when the Mac appeared to crash?

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 06:04 PM

Yes, they have been known crash, freeze, and hang--more often than anyone wants to let on, but probably a lot less often than PCs doing the same things. In OS X, though, a program can hang, and you can step out of it to the desktop, where you can force quit the program and restart it without having to restart the computer. That works very well when the browser hangs, which a fairly common problem. Other problems,can come from running more applications than you have RAM for---t)his could be a problem for people with older computers who have upgraded to a new OS without adding RAM), and also from running an application that was developed for either a later or much earlier OS. I shamelfully admit to freezing up repeatedly when running a particular application in OS 8.6, only to discover that it was developed for 9.22--the tech support folks were amazed that it ran at all....

Nobodies perfect....

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:39 PM

honestly I'm not the one using it so I can't say. But over the years we've had 3 different people doing pre-press in our shop so I don't think they were all the same impatient type.

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:03 PM

If you were doing prepress the chances are very good you skimped on the RAM needed to handle the very data-intense graphics files, or had a bad RAM chip.

OR, you filled the hard drive up over 85%.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: PCv/s MAC
From: redsnapper
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:06 PM

I've been responsible for a network of PCs at work, both using Microsoft and Unix servers (with virtual Windows machines), but always had a Mac at home. Most of what I would say has already been said. I am typing this on my work's laptop PC which is a functional and workmanlike device and which I also use at home.

But to enjoy using a computer I would always use a Mac.

RS