Playing your own stuff at folk clubs

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Dg
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 01:42 PM

Thanks again for the advice everyone - especially liked the post by Shambles.

What this thread has made me realise is that I need to add a few more Trad tunes to the repetoire. I'm working on a couple at the moment!!

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

Shambles i agree with you, Liz t s iagree with you too. Nic Jones and The halliard did exactly that with Dorothy Drew and others.
   If I HAD A CHOICE OF CLUBS I would go to Sharps too ,good on you Sheila Finn.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 02:17 PM

there often appears to be a lot of jealousy involved towards new performers singing their own material

While I'm sure we have all heard words we would have like to have (or to have been able to have) written, I can't say I've ever been aware of anyone being jealous of a song that bores everyone else to death.

To my mind, an honest introspective navel-gazing self-penned effort is often more entertaining than a safe but uninspired rendition of a well-tried classic.

Not to mine, I and others can at least sing (if only to ourselves) to the well tried classic.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST,John of Elsie`s Band
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST,John of Elsie`s Band
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 02:31 PM

Right on Cap`n Birdseye. Downe was an excellent club run by Jeff Dale who, I understand , is still playing in Sevenoaks from time to time. Also "!Four Square Circle" were regularly booked there and they gave a great night with "trad." as well as their own material and everyone seemed to appreciate it.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Ernest
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 02:34 PM

Guest DG,

after what I have read from you here you seem to care for the audience (very important) and you are prepared to present a good mix of original and traditional or covered stuff.

I am sure you will be successful that way.

Good luck!

Ernest

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 05:51 PM

I don't write songs, but I do compose tunes. Before I started playing my own tunes, I tried to establish myself as a competent player of traditional tunes. I then started to slip one or two of my own in and I have been quite pleased with response. Quite a few people seemed to like the tunes I wrote, which encouraged me to keep going.

I still take the approach of mixing a few of my own tunes with mainly traditional material (using the term fairly loosely as a fair proportion of what I play has been written by people who are still alive or only fairly recently dead).

I reckon as you gain confidence and, if people like your material, you can gradually increase the proportion of your own material.

My 2p worth FWIW.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 12:10 AM

Take what you've got and do it--you'll know soon enough what the audience likes--then you have two choices, either do more of what they like, or ignore them and do whatever you feel like doing.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Genie
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 01:16 AM

My advice:

Never choose one of your own compositions just because you're close to the songwriter.

Unless the song needs an introduction that identifies the source, just sing the song and observe -- uncontaminated by TMI -- how the audience reacts.
(Often people will ask where the song comes from. If they don't, it's not always important to tell them.)

If you tell people in advance that you're doing one of your own songs, you won't get honest feedback untainted by the desire to be nice.

If YOU really like a song, go ahead and perform it -- even if you happend to write it.

Genie

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Genie
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 02:12 AM

The Shambles said: "The bottom line is that if you don't sing your own songs - no one else is going to - are they? So if you don't sing them - they will die before they are born."

Word to that.

Writing songs and not letting the audiences hear them is a bit like having kids and keeping them locked up in your house away from the world.

(Of course, if they've no idea how to behave in proper society, that might actually be the preferred course of action.)

;-D

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 03:37 AM

My two pennorth would be to go for it. I do trad,parody and original and I don't carry a strange shaped case.Just me and I'm still 'ere! Nil Carborundum Illegitimus.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 04:06 AM

I'd agree that it's best at first just to slip in a song of your own amongst the other material - which doesn't have to be traditional by the way, it could be from other contemporary songwriters you admire, possibly those who might have influenced your own writing. Of course it depends on the venue/club as to what would go down well - I echo the advice of others and if you can, go along first to observe whether the club has a bias towards trad or other material, and see what goes down well there (this may not always be possible, for example if you're visiting a different area for a short time and only have one chance!)

I also agree it's best not to mention that the song is your own, at first, until you've established yourself as a performer. That might prejudice people either way, for or against the song, before they've even heard it. Let the song speak for itself. If it's any good people will express an interest and probably ask who wrote it. If it's not so good or doesn't go down particularly well, maybe you could learn from that too!

If you are any good as a writer, over time people will get to know this and you will be able to start introducing new songs you've written without any need for undue modesty. Slowly but surely wins the race - don't try to 'break' yourself too quickly. But of course you might be an exceptional writer and if so you could probably get away with it!

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Grab
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 07:49 AM

Shambles and Genie dead right. If you've written it, sing it. Just make sure you think it's up to the same standard as everything else you're singing - don't give a song special privileges just bcos you (or a friend) wrote it. And if it has all the impact of a week-old haddock when you perform it, maybe it's not quite as good as you thought it was. ;-)

My way of protecting the public from any rubbish I produce is that I leave it a few weeks and then come back to it when the immediate attachment to the song has faded. I wrote one a few months back (based on the Lancashire myth of Peg o'Nell) - it seemed to write itself, and I was really impressed that I could do that. Then I looked at it the other day, and realised why it seemed to write itself - the fact that was a derivative load of balls was why! Hey ho, rewrite time.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Tootler
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 12:13 PM

If YOU really like a song, go ahead and perform it -- even if you happend to write it.

There's the rub. You might like it, but will others? On the other hand there may be a song which you did not think one of your best but which goes down really well. There's always an element of uncertainty.

One of my tunes that has had the most positive feedback was not one of my personal favourites when I wrote it. Although it seems to move along quite nicely, I thought I had made it a little too repetitive, but others seem to like it.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 12:35 PM

Tootler - the assumption is that you are playing your own tunes in a conventional performance setting, rather than in a session - is that the case?

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 03:18 PM

Shambles, while I agee with some of your comments on this, I don't see much jealousy in this thread. Care to point a few names out? You arent usually one to spare peoples blushes...

Dg, unlike many on here, am not a songwriter or a musician, nor am I much cop as a singer! If I was anything, when I was going to Clubs, sessions & Festivals frequently, I was a Professional Audience Member....*G*

That said, I would be more certain in my own mind of GIVING an honest opinion if I heard the song before knowing it was original. Folkies being folkies, politeness seems to abound, other than among those who need to be often brutally honest, like Club & Festival organisers.

Unless somebody performing was REALLY crap, I cant see many people being partiularly negative..... & that would be doing the 'less-than-competent' performer a disservice really.

It sounds like none of the above applies to yourself though, so think what an impression you will make if one of your own works goes down really well, then the audence find they have just raved over the 1st Club performance of an original work, by its creator....

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: JamesHenry
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 04:13 PM

Dg, will you just go and sing your songs.

After four days debate I'm dying to hear how they went.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 08:52 PM

Shambles, while I agee with some of your comments on this, I don't see much jealousy in this thread. Care to point a few names out? You arent usually one to spare peoples blushes...

I think the whole 'girls singing their diaries' put-down is now a sad cliche which has an appeal based entirely on jealousy and is made by people who should really know better.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 09:29 PM

I think the whole 'girls singing their diaries' put-down is now a sad cliche

Possibly the "now" is relevant in my case. I've hardly been to a folk club in the past 5 or more years.

which has an appeal based entirely on jealousy

No, based entirely on past experience which includes watching the reactions of others.

I try not to do jealousy but if I'm going to have feelings on the "wish I could do that" side, it is invariably brought on by a musician who is so much better than me, but given there are so many of them, I don't worry about it for too long...

I'm pretty "tune orientated" (and sometimes don't even bother listening to words) and while there are some words written that I'd like to think I might have been capable of writing, I can't say I've ever had any wish to be a songwriter, let alone get jealous over someone being or trying to be something I've no desire to be.

Even if I did want to be a song writer, I can assure you I'd wanting to be writing stuff that is well received...

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Scoville
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 09:47 PM

I've slipped in a couple of TUNES I made up, after I'd tested them on unsuspecting music buddies and gotten approval, but never sung anything I wrote. I don't write many songs with words. My best one is much too long for most performances (eleven verses); it's a good song and doesn't sound conspicuously "wrote", nor is it personal, but most audiences just don't want to sit through something like that.

I'm perfectly aware that I don't have any talent for "singing my diary" so I, personally, would never subject an audience to something like that (I'd probably never even write something like that--I tend to write ballads that have nothing to do with my personal life), but if you're good at it, what the heck.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 09:57 PM

Scoville, ..."I don't write many songs with words"...umm, just what other kind of songs are there?

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 10:25 PM

4 : a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds (as of a bird, insect, or whale)
5 a : a melody for a lyric poem or ballad b : a poem easily set to music

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: JamesHenry
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 02:32 PM

I've never seen a whale performing one of its own songs in a folk club GUEST. Although on second thoughts.......

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 02:51 PM

Whaat about the famous and very wonderful NE singer Benny"the Whale" Graham?

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: JamesHenry
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:03 PM

Last I heard greg, Benny was due to have his hat surgically removed.

Great singer.

Subject: RE: Playing your own stuff at folk clubs
From: Grab
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:55 PM

I think the whole 'girls singing their diaries' put-down is now a sad cliche which has an appeal based entirely on jealousy and is made by people who should really know better.

Still enough of them around to make you realise why the cliche started in the first place. More often guys than girls though.