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Classical Guitar Players (Folk)

GUEST,TJ in San Diego 30 Jun 08 - 02:02 PM
Don Firth 30 Jun 08 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 30 Jun 08 - 03:53 PM
PoppaGator 30 Jun 08 - 04:04 PM
M.Ted 30 Jun 08 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 30 Jun 08 - 04:52 PM
PoppaGator 30 Jun 08 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 30 Jun 08 - 05:18 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 Jun 08 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 30 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM
Don Firth 30 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Jun 08 - 07:19 PM
PoppaGator 01 Jul 08 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 01 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM
Don Firth 01 Jul 08 - 04:49 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jul 08 - 06:35 PM
PoppaGator 02 Jul 08 - 04:40 PM
Don Firth 02 Jul 08 - 08:29 PM
Piers Plowman 03 Jul 08 - 02:57 AM
Don Firth 03 Jul 08 - 04:31 PM
bankley 03 Jul 08 - 04:57 PM
Piers Plowman 04 Jul 08 - 02:41 AM
Don Firth 04 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM
Stringsinger 05 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM
Uncle Phil 05 Jul 08 - 05:10 PM
Piers Plowman 06 Jul 08 - 02:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:02 PM

In the early sixties, one of the hottest acts around was the dynamic duo of Bud & Travis. Bud Dashiell and Travis Edmonson both played classical guitars. I have heard that Travis played a Goya, but have not confirmed it. They were active in the thick of the folk craze of the time, but were very versatile and not always "folk."

Their repertoire ranged from folk to show tunes to ballads (many composed by Travis). Their greatest legacy may be the introduction of the music of northern Mexico, such as the "bolero" form (Rayito de Luna and others) to American audiences. Their Latin Album, the last they made together, is a celebration of Latin American music, with beautiful guitar work and elegant harmonies. When you heard them, you would not believe it was two "gringos" performing. They were that good.

Travis is still with us, in Phoenix, Arizona, though he is unable to play due to physical disabilities. Bud died of a brain tumor some years ago, in Los Angeles, where he taught guitar. Their albums have been re-released by Travis on CD. The collection includes much previously unreleased material. I'm not selling for him - I just bought several to replace old vinyl LP's that were going south.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:10 PM

I've noticed that when I google "classic guitar" or "classical guitar," in addition to what I'm looking for, I get a number of hits having to do with such things as "the 'classic' Fender Stratocaster" and such. This is a very broad usage of the word "classic," and it seems that a few people, including "GUEST" just above, have made this assumption about what constitutes a "classic" guitar.

A classic guitar, in the way the word "classic" is usually meant in this context, is an acoustic flat-top guitar with a flat fingerboard 2 inches wide at the nut, a slotted headstock, and which is strung with nylon strings. Like almost any musical instrument, one can play all kinds of music on a classic guitar, but its primary usage is for playing classical music (works of such composers as Bach, Tarrega, Sor, Carulli, lute transcriptions, etc.). It is an excellent instrument for song accompaniment, and as indicated in this thread, many singers of folk songs prefer to use a classic guitar.

A typical classic guitar.

I realize, of course, that I am fighting a losing battle against the tendency to fuzz out the commonly agreed upon (dictionary) definitions of various words to make them mean anything one wants them to mean.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:53 PM

When those of us of a certain age hear "Classical" or "Concert Classical" guitars, we expect the discussion to be about instruments such as Don Firth describes, above, better than I could. The work of master luthiers creates the very best of these, evoking thoughts of violin makers like Stradivarius.   

Whether the discussion is about classic instruments or classic cars, however, I suppose the usage is now in the hands of those younger folks who see my old 1970 Chevy as "Vintage Classic." Anything may be of a certain vintage and, owing to model changes, etc., no longer available new. That doesn't make it a classic, any more than merely being older makes an item somehow better; i.e., collectible. If that were the case, some of us would be "going platinum" by now. The very word "classic" is so overused and misused that it is not surprising that a fairly recent issue of a Fender or Gibson electric makes someone's "classic" list.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:04 PM

I generally think of the nylon-string 12-fret wide-fingerboard guitar as "classical" as opposed to "classic," which often means nothing more than "historically notable."

(Just as the music of Bach et al is called "classical music," not "classic music.")

Of course, not everyone else makes the same fine distinctions that I do, so confusion is inevitable.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:50 PM

In case you numbskulls didn't get it--Don's point about the misconstruction of terms is really played out in this thread--

The title is an oxymoron: Classical guitar player (Folk), because it is an article of faith here that classical music and folk music are as antithetical as music forms can be--

And the question is preciously close to a tautology, since the answer to:"Are there any professional guitarists out there who use a Classical style instrument?"
is that all professional classical guitarists, by definition, play classical -style instruments-

I am not being nitpicky, because, bottom line, anyone who decides to import and classical guitars and doesn't know that classical guitarists play classical guitars, and folk music is not classical music is likely to lose his shirt, and most of the rest of his clothing--not to worry, though guest,Tony, the unsold guitars can be used to good effect in the manner of fig leaves--


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:52 PM

PoppaGator:

As someone who loves language and often cringes at its misuse by people who should know better, I second your comments. In truth, both words, classic and classical, are too frequently misapplied and overused.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:06 PM

How 'bout this as a more correct thread title

"Folk-Musician Players of Classical Guitars"

?

Even though there has been a lot of discussion about correct and incorrect usage, and possible confusion, I think that just about everyone ~ except the GUEST who refreshed this old thread for us by talking about his Fender amplifier ~ has understood what we're trying to discuss.

My own first guitar, purchased in 1963 when I was under the spell of the "Folk Scare," was a nylon-string classical-type instrument. And I was hardly alone; plenty of folkies, new and old, have always played these instruments.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:18 PM

Surely, one can play any style of music on a classical guitar. There is at least one well-known Irish player who plays terrific celtic rhythm guitar using a classical guitar. The violin was surely developed to play classical music and, had other types of violins been subsequentialy been developed, might very well have been referred to as "classical violin". The classical guitar is, of course, used to play a lot of ethnic Latin-American music, and a number of modern flamenco guitarists use classical guitars in preference to flamenco guitars(which have a different construction).


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:09 PM

Not really - if you use you thumb on your fretting hand, its quite diffiult on a classical model. I play a nylon strung guitar sometimes. i got the one that Katie Melua uses. Forgotten the name of it, it was about £250
I'm not sure if it counts as classical, as it has a cutaway and an electro pickup system.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM

When I say "any kind of music", I mean that the classical guitar - which in the UK was/is also called the Spanish guitar - can be used to play a wide range of music; just like "the piano" which was designed to play classical music.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM

Exactly so, tunesmith. A quick survey of the field shows the classical guitar being used for all kinds of music in addition to classical. It's as versatile as the piano.

When I first started playing the "classic" guitar (circa 1955), people with more that just a passing acquaintance with guitars knew what you meant by "classic guitar." Technique books for the instrument (e.g., Classic Guitar Technique Vol. I, Vol. II, etc., by Aaron Shearer, and numerous others with such titles as How to Play the Classic Guitar) used that designation. Despite this widespread usage, I believe PoppaGator's post of 30 Jun 08 - 04:04 p.m. speaks to the point if on wishes to avoid confusion. "Classic" does seem to be a fairly broad term in its application. This is why, within recent years, I have taken to using the term "classical" when referring to the acoustic, wide-necked, nylon-strung guitar. But that still doesn't always solve the problem.

As to the matter of the wide neck making fretting strings with the left thumb difficult, this is a whole different discussion, and it doesn't remove the classic(al) guitar from being perfectly usable as a folk instrument.

Use of the left thumb to fret bass strings is not an ordained part of what might be called "folk technique." There are all kinds of "folk techniques." I have been playing folk song accompaniments on a classical guitar since the aforementioned 1955 and I've never had an occasion when I needed to use my left thumb to fret a string. But since I use the thumb, index, middle, and ring fingers of my right hand, I rarely play full 6-string chords. In the meantime, my left-hand fingers have room to operate without tripping over each other.

Others' mileage may vary.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 07:19 PM

The term "Spanish guitar" is a bit confusing here, since it is also used to refer to flamenco guitars, which have a different construction and sound from "classical" guitars.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:10 PM

Anyone who has made a serious study of classical guitar technique is likely to have become adept enough at barre-chording not to use that good old "hooking the thumb over" left-hand technique.

You get the strongest left-finger pressure and the longest reach by keeping your thumb positioned pretty much at the center of the neck. This is not particularly intuitive, but if you study and practice and drill as a classical guitar student/player, this left-hand positioning should become second nature, and you'd never want to grab the neck with your fist is such a way that your thumb would ever get anywhere near a place where it could fret a sring.

There are a few riffs in a few pieces in the folk/blues/ragtime repertoire that require the use of the left thumb on the fingerboard if you're trying to play exactly like the originator, e.g., Rev. Gary Davis, Blind Blake, etc. But of course, not everyone desires to play those songs, or at least not in precisely that style. A skilled practitioner of classical technique can play a whole lot of very tricky stuff, and could probably come up with an alternative way to play most of Blake's and Davis's most difficult passages, or at least closely approximate them.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM

When playing the "A" section(the main theme) of Davy Graham's "Angi", I don't use the left hand thumb to play the 6th string 1st fret - as would Davy(I think) or Bert Jansch. This is undoutedly because I use a classical guitar with a widish neck. However, using this technique does open up moves that a "thumb over" player might not get in to.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:49 PM

Actually, there isn't a great deal of difference between classical and flamenco guitars. Over the years I've had—ye gods!—a total of seven classic guitars and three flamenco guitars. And three travel guitars.

[It isn't that I'm hard on guitars;   part of it is that I kept "trading up." Another part is that I usually kept two guitars at any given time:   one "party guitar" to use when I didn't know how safe it might be (possibility of theft, someone tripping and spilling a beer through the soundhole, etc.) and a very good guitar to use for concerts and such.]

A flamenco guitar is basically a classic guitar with a few small differences. Both use a fan-bracing system under the soundboard, but on a flamenco guitar, the bracing may be a bit lighter. And the back and sides are made of cypress rather that rosewood or other dark, hard woods. The nut and bridge are set up so the strings are a bit closer to the fingerboard. A slight "fret-buzz" is characteristic of the flamenco sound, and this also facilitates fast scale work. Other that that, the details of construction are identical.

Initially, the flamenco guitar was a classic guitar that was inexpensive enough for a gypsy guitarist to afford, and Spanish cypress is a lot cheaper than rosewood. Also, boring six holes in the headstock and sticking straight pegs into them was a lot cheaper than geared tuning machines. It turned out that cypress, compared to rosewood, produced a punchier sound, capable of cutting through the sounds of the singers and dancers somewhat better than the fuller, richer sound reflected by hard woods like rosewood, and this became a characteristic of the flamenco sound.

As I said, I've had three flamenco guiters. The first one was a Domingo Esteso (Sobrino de Domingo Esteso) sold to me in 1957 by a classmate at the University of Washington School of Music who had just returned from Madrid, had another flamenco guitar, and felt he didn't need two guitars. Sold it to me for $100 – Hosanna!! It had an incredible sound, but it was awfully bass-heavy. It also had push-pegs.

I've heard people say that a flamenco guitar has to have push-pegs to be a "real" flamenco guitar. Some maintain that the metal in geared tuning machines changes the sound. Well, two things about that:   I've played flamenco guitars with both tuning systems and I can detect no difference in the quality and characteristics of the sound. And—anyone who has had to wrestle with those bloody push-pegs in an effort to get the guitar in tune, and prefers them to tuning machines, has got to have a screw loose in addition to being a raving masochist!

In 1961, with the aid of a friend who made regular yearly trips to Spain, I acquired an Arcangel Fernandez flamenco guitar—with geared tuning machines—and this guitar is the flagship of my fleet of guitars. In addition to being an outrageous instrument, it has appreciated over the years to where it has been appraised as being worth some 150 times what I paid for it. Mine looks like this:   CLICKY #1.   Except that mine has a clear plastic tape-plate (golpeador) rather than the white plastic. Also, the one in the picture is #153 (note the label inside the sound hole). Mine is #135.

Shortly thereafter, as a second guitar, I got a "Casa Fernandez" flamenco guitar, made by one of Arcangel Fernandez' apprentices and approved by him for sale under his "Casa" label. It, too, was a fine sounding and playing instrument, although not the equal of the Arcangel. Here is a photo of my actual Casa Fernandez:    CLICKY #2.

[Regarding this photo:    While googling for information on the Seattle World's Fair in 1962, particularly the Sunday afternoon folk concerts at the U. N. Pavilion during the fair, I stumbled into that photo in the U. of W. Library's photo archives. There were photographers all over the place, and we just got to ignoring them, so I was unaware that this was being taken while we were tuning up and getting ready to go on. That's me, seated, showing my recently acquired Casa Fernandez to Judy Flenniken, a young lady with a very big singing voice, who was looking for a better guitar and wanted to know where she could get one like mine (she and I did several concerts together the following year). I don't recognize the banjo player, but the young woman in the background warming up her fingers is Nancy Quensé, still very active around here these days.]

Flamenco guitars, as noted, come equipped with golpeador, or tap-plates to protect the soundboard from the percussive tapping (golpé) that flamenco guitarists do. Also, flamenco guitarists almost always use a çejilla (say-HEE-ya), same function as a capo, generally somewhere between the second and seventh frets. This is not necessarily to change keys, it is to change the tone of the guitar and to move the action up to where the frets are closer together to facilitate rapid scalework in the falsettas (scale runs, general improvisation). Within recent years, some flamenco guitarists prefer the somewhat deeper, richer sound produced by darker woods like rosewood. These guitars are referred to as "flamenco negro" as opposed to "flamenco blanca" (like the ones I have owned). Other than the lower action and the tap-plates, I don't see that there is any difference between a "flamenco negro" guitar and a classic guitar.

I had a chance to take about five months' lessons from a genuine flamenco guitarist in 1962 (Antonio Zori, who accompanied the dance troupe at the Spanish Village at the Seattle World's Fair), and got to the point where I could add a few flamenco solos along with the classic guitar solos I would sometimes insert into a coffeehouse set. I got pretty good at it, but of course something like this was far, far beyond me!   CLICKY #3.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:35 PM

yeh I love flamenco - well to be honest all Spanish music is pretty good. all that stuff from the basque country as well.

the guitars are shit hot over there . made from cypess wood - which is incredibly light - almost as though they were built out of balsa wood, and the sound literally explodes underneath you hands when you roll your fingers over the strings.

a mate of mine is a jazz guitarist. he has a girlfriend in Barcelona and he was saying all Spanish people have a real rspect for the guitar. After all its Spain's gift to the world. they feel they have an investment in every halfway decent guitarist that ever lived.

I don't know if he's right, but I got an incredible reception just doing simple Rambling Jack Elliot type fingerpicking when I played a folk club in majorca one time.

I don't agree with you guys about the thumb. Over the years its become part of what I do. Still no need to get verbissen.

best wishes to all

big al


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:40 PM

Hey, I play with my left thumb wrapped around the neck all the time; "works for me," as they say.

I was just pointing out that, for someone toroughly educated on the classical guitar, the left thumb simply never gets anywhere near that position, but stays down at or near the center, or thickest part, of the neck.

I believe I misspoke (mis-typed?) yesterday when I observed that "You get the strongest left-finger pressure and the longest reach by keeping your thumb positioned pretty much at the center of the neck." The classical left-hand-position does allow for maximum fingerboard coverage (i.e., allows for the greatest "stretches"), but it makes holding down the strings with sufficient pressure more difficult, not easier, than the ham-fisted folk/pop/amateur/self-taught grip.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 08:29 PM

PoppaGator, one of the little tricks of getting sufficient pressure in full barre chords is to use a touch of "leverage." Instead of keeping the thumb and first finger directly opposite each other, if you have the thumb more opposite the second finger, it tends to roll the first finger slightly onto its side and gives you a sort of "scissors" effect. Give it a try; see if it works for you.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 02:57 AM

I play a classical guitar for everything because that's the only guitar I have available at present. I own a solid-body electric guitar, which I don't have where I'm currently living and I originally learned on a steel-string.

A classical guitar just isn't that loud and I wouldn't make any special efforts to play loud if amplification isn't available. My inclination would be to use a guitar that's suited for the room. It's great if people have extraordinary skills, like filling a large concert hall with the sound of a classical guitar with no amplification, but I don't think I would try to practice this --- even if I had any idea how it was possible.

I sometimes play my guitar with a flat pick, just because I like the technique and I hope I may be able to buy other instruments in the future. I tried picking on my electric guitar using fingerpicks, but I found that the strings were uncomfortably close together for this purpose, and the sound was too muddy (it's a solid-body).

I've been thinking of buying fingerpicks and especially a thumb pick. I'm very used to picking with my fingers and thumb, but I'd like to practice for the case that I buy a steel-string (which I'd like to do) and I also think it might be more comfortable to pick with the thumb using a thumb pick. I don't know, I just want to test this.

I never fret strings with my thumb, even on the narrower neck of an electric guitar. I have medium-size hands, so it's not very practical on a classical guitar. I just don't like it and don't find it to be a useful technique for me. I only have done it when music specifically requires it. However, in the one case I recall (Dave van Ronk's piece in Happy Traum's _Fingerpicking Styles for Guitar_), I found it wasn't necessary and I could finger that passage or those passages another way.

I really like the increased room to manouever for the right hand, and one soon gets used to the slightly increased difficulty of fretting. Like all instruments, a classical guitar has its limitations. If I could only have one guitar to play (the situation at present), it would be a classical guitar. I play classical (in the wider sense) music, folk music, jazz and various kinds of popular music on mine.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:31 PM

The matter of volume may depend on the particular classic guitar. A halfway decent classic may not sound as loud as, say, a Martin D-model up close, but believe it or not, a classic has more carrying power than a steel string guitar. I've heard Segovia, Christopher Parkening, Pepe Romero, and others play in fairly sizeable theaters with no amplification whatsoever, and their guitars could be heard loud and clear everywhere in the theater.

I've never had any problems that way with my classics, even when I've used one of my "second" guitars. And I just use my fingernails. If you're not getting much volume, you might want to check your right hand position. And use rest-strokes whenever you can.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: bankley
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:57 PM

nothing too exotic, but I have a 70's Fender nylon string and also a Washburn...which has more bottom end.... Paid $150 for each at different times... also have an old Harmony which came with steel strings and a warped neck.. the label inside says "Do Not Use Steel Strings"...now it makes a great slide...it cost $10.. aim a Royers Ribbon mic at any of them and they're great in studio...

Roger Miller played nylon string...


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:41 AM

Don Firth wrote:
"[...] I've heard Segovia, Christopher Parkening, Pepe Romero, and others play in fairly sizeable theaters with no amplification whatsoever, and their guitars could be heard loud and clear everywhere in the theater."

I think it probably has a lot to do with the rooms. In a theater or auditorium with good acoustics, it's remarkable how what is spoken, sung or played on stage can be heard in the furthest corners. A lot of places now have more-or-less discrete amplification, too.

Don Firth wrote:
"I've never had any problems that way with my classics, even when I've used one of my "second" guitars. And I just use my fingernails. If you're not getting much volume, you might want to check your right hand position. And use rest-strokes whenever you can."

I didn't quite follow the discussion about whether it should be "classic" or "classical". I prefer the term "classical", with no wish to offend anyone. The word "classic" has become so overused, from "classic Coke" to "classic rock", etc., ad nauseum, that I try to avoid it. I will still say "classic cars", though.

I don't have any trouble with my volume, but then I only play for myself. With amplification, it wouldn't be a problem. My guitar isn't that great, and I've wanted a better one for a long time, but it doesn't seem to be quieter than average. Thank you for the suggestions, anyway.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM

Yeah, I agree about "classic" and "classical." I had always used the term "classic guitar" because that's what I had always heard it referred to, and, as I mention above, the way the technique manuals for the instrument referred to it. But the word "classic" has become so widely and indiscriminately used that it seems to have lost its meaning. So "classical" guitar. . . .

Hmm. I wonder how long that will last.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM

The interaction between folk music and so-called classical music is not distant but is often perceived as such. Many composers of so-called "classical" music derived their inspiration from folk themes. Even Segovia's method of "classical guitar" evolved from techniques used in Spanish guitar playing based on folk learning. Flamenco being an example.

There are certain forms of Hispanic folk music which call for the style of so-called classical guitar playing on nylon or formerly gut-strung instruments.

It has become out of fashion for folkies to use classical guitar today since the elements of African-American blues and rock call for the stretching of strings or out door playing using finger picks. Also, the influence of jazz guitar has had an effect on contemporary steel-strung styles.

Here are some fairly well-known folk-type players that use nylon Classical guitar.

Theodore Bikel,
Richard Dyer-Bennet
Will Holt
John Stauber
More later.


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 05:10 PM

Bankley, Roger Miller did play a classical, a Gibson when I saw him. Glenn Yarbrough played a classical with the Limeliters alongside Alex Hassilev's 5 string banjo.

You can play a classical quietly, but I don't think of them as quiet instruments. I used an unamplified classical for years for a regular gig playing for folk mass at 8:00 and regular mass at 11:00, fingers only a 8:00 and with a flatpick if the organ was being played at 11:00. Never had a problem with volume. Some of it probably had to do with the acoustics of the room, but it sure seemed like the classical had a lot of carrying power on its own. Just seemed to fill up the whole space.
- Phil


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Subject: RE: Classical Guitar Players (Folk)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 02:12 PM

Don Firth wrote:
"Yeah, I agree about "classic" and "classical." I had always used the term "classic guitar" because that's what I had always heard it referred to, and, as I mention above, the way the technique manuals for the instrument referred to it. But the word "classic" has become so widely and indiscriminately used that it seems to have lost its meaning. So "classical" guitar. . . ."

That's odd; I've never heard the term "classic guitar" used in that sense, however I might just not have been paying attention. I do sometimes play "classical" music on the guitar, although, with some exceptions, I tend to prefer music from other eras to music from the classical period in the strict sense, i.e., approx. Haydn to Beethoven. I have quite a bit of music, rather heavy on the Renaissance and Baroque eras, but have bought very little instructional material for classical guitar. I have one volume of the Schaller-Scheit series, which explains about playing from a figured bass, which is _very_ interesting.

Stringsinger wrote:
"The interaction between folk music and so-called classical music is not distant but is often perceived as such. Many composers of so-called "classical" music derived their inspiration from folk themes."

Yes, that was quite popular at one time, or actually, at a couple of times, and some of this music is among my favorite music. I love the folksong arrangements of Benjamin Britten. I also like Kathleen Ferrier very much. I think it's a shame that this way of singing folksongs seems to have gone completely out of fashion. I was very pleased to see all the postings about Richard Dyer-Bennet. My parents have a record of his, and I listened to it occasionally. I would be very interested in hearing him again. Not that their way of singing folksongs was the same, but there were certain similarities.

I'm not knocking anyone's way of singing folksongs, but it seems to me that on the one hand there's a great deal of sameness in the way folk music is performed and on the other hand a great lack of knowledge among the listening public about what folk music really is --- not that anyone can really give a definitive answer to this question. As for some of the music that's being marketed as "World Music" --- don't get me started.


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Mudcat time: 31 October 7:47 PM EDT

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