recorder music

Subject: recorder music
From:
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 12:26 AM

i am looking for music for the recorder or any sites that pertain to the rcorder.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Kernow John
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 01:20 PM

Try Nicholas S. Landers page at
http://www.iinet.net.au/~nickl/recorder.html
He seems to have something about everything relating to recorders.
My wife plays a metal recorder which gives a sound something like a flute.
Regards Baz

Subject: RE: recorder music
From:
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 07:04 PM

Baz: I am interested in that metal recorder. I have never seen one. Who makes it? Is it shaped like the usual recorder?

Murray

Subject: RE: recorder music
From:
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 10:17 PM

Hello!

An extensive collection of recorder music is available at the following web site:

http://www.recordermail.demon.co.uk/catalogue.html

There you'll find a lot of music for one, two and more recorders available for purchase.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: hank
Date: 18 Jan 99 - 10:04 AM

Hmmm... I got my old second grade recorder sitting on my desk.

I'm still somewhat bitter about that deal. We were promissed in second grade (when we were guliable) that we would spend a lot of time on the recorder, so it was a good idea for those who weren't from very poor famialies to buy thier own rather then using a school recorder. I once knew how to play mary ahd a little lamb, and started hot croos buns. Then the class switched to something else, and never came back.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Kernow John
Date: 18 Jan 99 - 06:26 PM

Murray

The metal recorder is made by a company called Kobliczek and is called a Silberton.
It is a parallel bore silver plated brass 2 piece tube (tuneable), quite heavy to hold.
The end double holes are set in the tube at an angle with a rt.hand thumb rest half way down.
The mouthpiece is hard to describe but it basically consists of a wooden plug in the cutaway tube
and a curved section of wood that fits in front of the fipple and is adjustable to change the tone.

My wife had been thinking of trying to get one for some time but the shop she deals with had given up hope of being able to get one. Then just prior to her birthday last year I phoned the shop on the off chance and the guy said 2 have just come into the country do you want one of them? As it turned out the other one had been damaged coming through customs.

The shop catalogue describes them as brilliant recorders for buskers and folk groups. He only sells recorders and doesn't usually lavish praise easily.

Hope this saga has been of use.

Regards Baz.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From:
Date: 19 Jan 99 - 06:21 PM

I have a white Bakelite recorder from about the forties or fifties. (Bakelite, for those who don't know, was what was used before plastic became common -- its the stuff the plugs are made out of on old lamps.) I must get it out and attempt to learn to play it. Can you play jigs and such on them?

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: alison
Date: 19 Jan 99 - 06:46 PM

Hi Tim,

Yes you can. (Hornpipes sound great too.)I find them slightly difficult now after having played the whistle for so long.... You have to concentrate on half covering that little hole at the back for the top octave and the fingering for the top notes is a bit weird...... you just blow harder on the whistle..... I'm getting lazy in my old age.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: recorder music
From:
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 02:18 AM

Jaques. You can do with a recorder whatever you can with any whistle plus more. Of course it doesn't sound like a whistle; but play it man!

Thanks BAZ. I don't know if the info is usefull; but it is very interesting. I was sort-of wondering how heavy it was and how they managed to shape the fipple. You answered those questions.

By the way, I have a nice tenor recorder called a "Koch". It was made by a man named Koch in (near) the White Mountains in N.H. It is made of a very dark wood called cocobolla (sp?) from Brazil. The interesting thing is it is designed after the Pretorius recorder rather than the Baroque one. This gives it a darker, more hollow tone. It is also shorter than Baroque tenors and so doesn't need a mechanical lever to get the bottom hole(s). I just fished it out of a trunk where it has been for ten years as a result of this thread.

Murray

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Animaterra
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 11:15 AM

I have a Koch, too! I'd love to find out if he's still making recorders, because years ago I sat on the bottom section and cracked it. The recorder is a great, versatile intrument, and although it can't carry sound like a whistle, it's good for certain effects.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 09:15 PM

" It is made of a very dark wood called cocobolla (sp?) from Brazil. "

Be VERY careful..Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa)(mostly fron Mexico & central America) is a member of the Rosewood family, and can cause severe allergic reactions in some people..wetting it with saliva might make the irritant leach out..I know someone who made a Rosewood flute and developed blisters on his mouth. I cannot work with Cocobolo, though I can with some of the other Rosewoods. About 30% of woodworkers suffer severe reactions to the dust, though the dry, worked wood is generally safe enough!

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 09:27 PM

note from a guitar makers page:

"4."Words of warning"- A friend gave me two 3-M masks to wear to avoid wood dust and finishing fumes,but I really needed a space suit.Alot of times my eyes were so swollen that I said "Iam flagged!" and put the project aside till I recovered.Remember how I said in building of first guitar that I was allergic to Indian rosewood.That was nothing compared to cocobolo! Cocobolo rosewood dust has the power to potentially kill me! See this site for more about allergic reactions to woods.- TOXIC WOODS SUCH AS COCOBOLO

http://www.city-net.com/albertfp/toxic.htm

Subject: RE: recorder music
From:
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 10:02 PM

Animaterra: I told a friend about Koch's place and he went to visit it--hoping to become his assistant or apprentice and learn the craft. (This was mid-70s). He was told by Mrs. Koch that Mr. Koch had suffered a heart attack and was thinking of retiring.

That doesn't mean he didn't come back again later, of course, but it was a one-man operation and he would be pretty old by now.

Bill: Thanks for the warning. What a pity. It is such a beatutful wood. I have never had a reaction to it; but I haven't played it in over fifteen years, and I know one can develop allergies later in life. I will watch out for any signs of irritated lips.

Apropos of nothing. I seem to be allergic to the plastic that they use in making harmonicas! I can play a marine band to my heart's content; but if I play a Special 20 or something like that, my lips and toung start to burn.

Murray

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 10:39 PM

Well Bill I was just about to pass on the same info. I have used Cocobolo for exposed end frames on several of my hammered dulcimers and they have always gotten the most attention. It is far denser than other members of the rosewood family and even without it's toxicity problems, it is very difficult to work with...and at the price of cocobolo...whooboy. It is also unlike any other rosewood in that the uneven, knotty pattern is the most prized. And I am unaware of any finish (save oil) that will adhere to it well...and it doesn't want or need oil!

I have made several sets of double sided hammers and the weight and density give a striking sound on the one side. The padded (muted) side is truly chime like. I've never let any of the hammers out because of the toxic possibilities. Not to be to be too morbid, but if a baby got hold of one ... I'm not up to it. My sister tried a set and her hands broke out and swelled considerably. I've always taken precautions, but I have never had any reaction to working with it or to the hammers. But it does surprise me that a recorder would be made from it. I'm sure they are lovely though. catspaw

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Siobhan
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 12:09 AM

This thread has inspired me to dig out an old recorder I have had for 20 years. Never did play it, though. I can start now and drive my husband even crazier than I already do!

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 06:47 PM

Animaterra - try a sopranino recorder - cuts through anything! I usually play metal flute, whistle when it gets noisier and sopranino when I REALLY want to be heard!

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: GUEST,Hi
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 08:28 PM

Hi, Im Ava i am 10 years old and i really enjoy the recorders can you teach me or what websites can i go on to help me???

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 08:57 PM

Ava - just about all the recorder information there is on the web is listed on Nicholas Lander's site. It will take you a VERY long time to cover it all (I haven't, and I've been playing the recorder for thirty years).

Do you have a teacher?

What sort of music are you playing at the moment?

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 12:47 AM

Wow, the last time anyone posted to this thread before Ava, she was just about being born...

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: treewind
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 05:29 AM

Dolmetsch

Apart from recorders, they are an amazing source of manuscript paper as free downloadable ready-to-print PDF files in many combinations of stave groupings and clefs.

Anahata

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: romany man
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:01 PM

ah but what if you dont read dots like me, i want to learn the recorder but hell like everything else if you dont read dot you are stuffed.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:30 PM

You can always learn it from reading the fingering diagrams - those have dots too but they are just patterns showing which fingerholes to cover to get which note. Your ear will tell you the rest.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:41 PM

http://www.musick8kids.com/html/recorder_training.tpl

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 04:33 PM

ah but what if you dont read dots like me, i want to learn the recorder but hell like everything else if you dont read dot you are stuffed.

Jacob van Eyck was a blind recorder player in 17th century Holland. Not being able to read music didn't stop him writing quite a lot of it.

I learn tunes both by ear and off sheet music. It doesn't take long to learn to read it and it's a useful thing to know.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:20 PM

The recorder is a great instrument for playing traditional music. I generally prefer a descant recorder to a whistle, though I can play both.

However, if you want to explore the recorder repertoire, you really do need to learn to read music. I learnt to read music alongside learning to play the recorder. Most recorder tutors teach the elements of music notation at the same time as teaching the basic fingerings.

The best thing however, is to get a teacher and, if possible one who really understands the recorder. The recorder is not a flute or clarinet or whatever, even though it was referred to as "flute" at one time.

You may find that the musical director of the local branch of Society of Recorder Players gives lessons.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: romany man
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 04:22 AM

ok ok i will dust them off i got three of the devils waiting to test my patience one more try.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Tootler
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:13 AM

I would just add that plastic recorders made Aulos, Dolmetsch or Yamaha are all excellent instruments with good tone and intonation and very reasonably priced. Overall excellent value for money.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:29 AM

I agree about the Aulos recorders. They are definitely a good value for the price. I don't know about the other brands, because I haven't played them.

A couple of months ago I bought a recorder and became addicted. I've got a soprano (treble), an alto (descant), and a sopranino and I am sorely tempted to buy a tenor. Then I could be a whole recorder ensemble all by myself, if I could just fit them all into my mouth.

It's only taken a couple of weeks to learn the fingerings pretty well and I can sightread on both the C and F instruments without too much hesitation, although I haven't got stuck in learning the alternative fingerings and trills yet.

I've bought some recorder music, but have just mostly been playing from my various song books. I find that they mostly go too low for the soprano, but I can play most things on the alto.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM

Nice to see recorders get some praise for a change. I know they've had some flak in some on-line communities which I think is pretty bizarre, to be honest.

Piers Plowman wrote: A couple of months ago I bought a recorder and became addicted. I've got a soprano (treble), an alto (descant), and a sopranino and I am sorely tempted to buy a tenor. Then I could be a whole recorder ensemble all by myself, if I could just fit them all into my mouth.

A few years ago I saw jazzer Julian Argüelles make a pretty good attempt at doing that! Actually, just a couple (descants I think) but he was simply amazing.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Marje
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 11:55 AM

Romany man, one way to learn to read the dots might be to start with tunes you already know. If there's something you can already play and you can get the dots for it (in the same key! -get someone to check this out for you if you're not sure) it could be a way to learn to match the notes you see with the notes you're playing.

It's not rocket science, it's fairly straightforward and I think a lot of people imagine it to be more difficult than it is. For a melody instrument like recorder you only need to be able to read single notes (no chords to worry about), and only the treble clef, which keeps it simple. It's not like you're learning to read a score for the church organ - give it a go!

Marje

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:18 PM

Just for info, the musical alphabet consists of only the first seven letters, but it starts on C rather than A. So it goes:

C D E F G A B - then back to C, in a repeating loop

If you're going up the scale/staff it goes in the above order.

If you're going down the scale/staff it goes backwards, i.e. B A G F E D C


On that chart in the link I gave above, the # (sharp) sign next to to the F (F#) means it's halfway between the notes F and G: a little higher than F but a little lower than G.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:33 PM

The sizes of recorder I use most are in G (alto and sopranino). The reason is that I play a lot of Scottish tunes, which often use the pipe scale (nine notes G A B C# d e f# g a). If you play those on a G recorder your fingers will often be in the same places as they would be on a pipe chanter, so they feel more natural. Good G recorders are not cheap, but there are altos and sopraninos from Susato that work okay so long as you don't want to use the very highest notes much - they're good and loud in the range where it counts for Scottish tunes.

For a ten-year-old, an alto might be manageable, depends on how big Ava's hands are. It's worth getting used to switching sizes as early as possible, as recorder players do a lot of it.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 07:13 AM

This is one of the classic pieces for two recorders in one mouth:

Maki Ishii, Black Intention

though I prefer the second half, which is just one recorder played with some unusual techniques.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 04:55 PM

Jack's info on recorders in G, while spot on, could mislead novices. The "usual" keys for Baroque recorders as used widely in schools, and the consorts that they produce are (in descending order);
sopranino F
descant      C (also called soprano, in some countries)
treble         F (also called alto, ditto)
tenor          C
bass          F
great bass C


Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Tootler
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:21 PM

Below the Great Bass is

Contra Bass in F

There are others below that, but they are rare as yet, though there do seem to be one or two playing a C sub contrabass in the Society of Recorder Players.

I play an F contra bass. Wonderful instrument with a fabulous tone.

Rowan is right. The various C and F instruments are what are nearly always played, certainly among amateurs. Professionals (usually Conservatoire trained) do play instruments pitched in other keys, the most common being the Voice Flute which is a Tenor in D, a tone above the C tenor. It is quite widely used for playing Baroque flute music as the Baroque one key flute was also pitched in D.

Jack Campin is fairly unusual as an amateur playing a G alto and I can appreciate his reason for doing so, though he does seem to have a liking for unusual wind instruments. :-)

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:43 PM

Thanks for that, Tootler; I was losing confidence about my recollection of Contra Basses; I stick to free reeds. Daughter #2 is the (Year 10) recorder player in my family and is aiming for A.Mus.A. later in the year. The New England (Oz version) appears to be the 'recorder-playing capital of Oz' judging by the number of players and the standard of their playing. The local recorder society has a couple of Great Basses but I don't think they yet have a Contra Bass. I'm lucky enough to have the concertina version of each.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 06:09 PM

The Sub-Contrabass

You have to wonder if he got that extra-height part of the ceiling built specially.

I've tried an F subbass once - nice tone but not something you can really play tunes on, when every note needs an entire lungful of air. My C greatbass is not too hard to play normal melodies on.

The plastic Susato G altos are not that expensive - currently $69. I tried to get Kelischek to make them out of tartan plastic and market them as "The Scottish Recorder" but he didn't get it.

The really exotic size in my armoury is a "sopralto" in A with German fingering. No maker's name on it but I think it's from the 1930s. Hindemith's "Plöner Musiktag" trio was written for it (along with soprano and tenor recorders in D, which are still made, at a price). I last used it for playing a Carolan tune in G - I was fingering it as if I was playing it in B flat on a descant, which gave a softer effect because more notes in the scale were crossfingered.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 06:35 PM

You can make truly huge flutes more easily out of metal:

The Subcontrabass Flute

It would be tempting to rent one just to freak out an uptight "wooden flutes are the only way" Irish session. It can play fast enough - The Kid On The Mountain would turn into The Kid Down The Mineshaft.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:48 AM

My wife plays traditional Englsih/British tunes on recorders one a descant and also a tenor

It was seeing the band HORSES BRAWL, who play an unusual and rather brilliant blend of early music and English traditional tunes

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:38 AM

The LISTEN link on the Horses Brawl site doesn't work.

Meanwhile...

David Bellugi playing klezmer on a Renaissance alto recorder

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 10:56 AM

How nice it is to hear from other recorder players. I have instruments from sopranino to bass.

Click here to see how big a recorder can get:

really big motha

(I don't have one that big.)

The Flanders Recorder Quartet is noted for its collection of really big recorders like this. One day I heard them do a concert of classical music. For the encore, they played "Moonlight Serenade" on the huge instruments. It was great.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 11:51 AM

Nice - the humungous B flat subcontrabass Loeki Stardust have is far bigger, but I couldn't find a video of them making real music with it.

Tootler: you've got one of those F subcontras. Where are you? If we're ever likely to be in the same place at the same time I could bring my greatbass.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: mattkeen
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 05:23 AM

Quoting Jack Campin
"The LISTEN link on the Horses Brawl site doesn't work."


Yes it does Jack

And there are 2
One on the front page bottom left that plays a Radio 3 session and one on the recordings page.

Perhaps its your browser?

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 06:38 AM

I tried the Radio 3 one - nothing. This was on the latest Firefox so there shouldn't have been a problem. My guess was that the BBC had deleted the programme from their archive.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: mattkeen
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:26 AM

Thats really weird Jack

I am on Firefox too and have just liestened to both

Have a look at their myspace site then?

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 09:20 AM

I do NOT read Murdochspace. Ever.

The samples in their "recordings" page work fine once I enable Flash, though. Nice, albeit the message it leaves with its choice of repertoire is that the recorder is really meant for those Latin types.

This Dutch group is maybe a bit closer to mainstream English style:

Folkcorn
more Folkcorn

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:15 PM

Thanks for those links, Jack. I enjoyed them.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM

Tootler: you've got one of those F subcontras. Where are you? If we're ever likely to be in the same place at the same time I could bring my greatbass.

[pedant mode]
Strictly speaking an F Contrabass. The Subcontra is lower though I believe the Germans call the F Contra a Sub bass.
[/pedant mode]

Mine is a square one by Paetzold. You can see one here

Mine is the larger one on the right. The smaller one is their great bass. They look odd but they make a great sound. They have the full 2 octave range of a recorder with a strong first octave which is what you need with an instrument like that. It is possible to play tunes on them though it is not something you would do everyday. I have taken it to sessions on occasions and basically play oompahs on it.

There is an mp3 of mine here. I'm playing a couple of Northumbrian tunes, Derwentwater's Farewell and Johnny Armstrong.

I live about 200 miles south of you, Jack, in Middlesbrough.

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:46 PM

I have middling-sized computer speakers and that mp3 made them rattle like they were about to fall apart!

Some time ago I picked up a bunch of 8-foot-pitch organ pipes out of a skip, thinking I might turn them into Paetzold-type recorders by adding toneholes. I soon realized it wasn't that easy - an organ pipe is voiced to play at only the pitch of the full-length pipe, and it also needs far more air than any human-blown instrument. All I can produce is short sharp honks. They might work as drones if I can make a small blower - computer fans?

Subject: RE: recorder music
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 07:45 AM

You might do better to make a portative organ, Jack! They have a bellows with a chunk of granite on it. You lift up the bellows and let go and the weight causes the bellows to fall the air being directed through the pipes by a keyboard. The resistance in the system ensures the bellows falls at a reasonable rate. Periodically you lift the bellows up again. It means that the bellows hand is not fully occupied with the bellows and so can play the keyboard, unlike the Indian Harmonium. To buy one is serious money as you can see here.

Mind you 8ft pitch organ pipes would not exactly make a portative organ :-)