BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK

Subject: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:38 PM

This wonderful bit of follow-up on the news courtesy of Durham Herald-Sun columnist Carl Daniels-Kinney:

Many of you are aware that about two weeks ago, the US Supreme Court ruled that the state of Missouri cannot discriminate against the Ku Klux Klan when it comes to groups that want to participate in the adopt-a-highway program. Of course, while the name of the Klan is aesthetically disgusting, most of would agree that this decision is a victory for free speech and equal protection under the law.

Well, the DOT in Missouri has gotten their revenge, and boy is it sweet. Sure, they can't remove the KKK's adopt-the-highway sign, but few would dispute the state's ability to name the highway itself.

The KKK is now cleaning up a stretch of the newly-christened Rosa Parks Freeway.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:40 PM

ROFL!!!! How very fitting!!! Some one sure has a wonderful sense of humour!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:43 PM

Heard a joke about this on Jon Boy & Billy. Seems didn't want the KKK doing adopt-a-highway since they were afraid they'd only pick up the white trash...

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:45 PM

Love it!

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,ceiliwidow
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:47 PM

That DOES sound like sweet revenge! To be honest though the Ku Klux Klan started out as a religious club in which members would meet to discuss the bible and help out the community. My husband's grandparents were actually members probably around the 1920s! Unfortunately those with hatred in their hearts began acting out and hiding behind this club's banner. It ruined the very good intentions that this group had in its early years.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:47 PM

This would make quite the song challenge.....

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:26 PM

I heard years ago that the Marlborough tobacco company has KKK connections and that its branding incorporates KKK insignia in some way. Anyone know if there's any truth in this?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:30 PM

Boy that sounds like certain "urban legend" material to me, Fionn. So I went to Urban Legend Central, aka www.snopes.com and found the following:

blicky.

It's an urban legend, all right.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:33 PM

Love it kat!

Fionn, I'd heard that too but it looks to be a myth - click here.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Sourdough
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:43 PM

I had never heard that the KKK started out as a religious club without racist overtones. Has anyone else heard of this? As I recall, the KKK has had several incarnations. The first was as a violent anti-Negro, anti-carpetbagger organization in he first decade after the Civil War. I believe it lapsed into somnolence for a while after a violent twenty or thirty years. Did someone dust off the name of the old violent organization and try to start it out as a religious club?

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Bert
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:44 PM

I did hear that in it's early days, it was also against Jews and Catholics.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:44 PM

Still is, ain't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,ceiliwidow
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:59 PM

You're right, Sourdough! At least I can't find anything on-line that backs up the religious club beginnings. My husband's grandmother was a member of several religious groups (REAL religious groups). Among her belongings my husband found a cloth badge he didn't recognize. He asked his grandmother what is was and she said, "Just the badge from some old club I used to belonged to." It wasn't until we were watching the movie "Mississippi Burning" that my husband saw that badge again being worn by Klansmen in the film. Well, there's another skeleton out of HIS family's closet!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 02:21 PM

Makes me want to visit Missouri for the pure pleasure of throwing trash on the highway and having the Klan pay to pick it up while honoring Rosa Parks at the same time. Wonderful story!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 02:28 PM

Ow! Ow!! Laffin so hard it hurts! Made Hardi quit fiddlin' I was laffin' so hard, he had to know why!

Now he's laffin too!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,ceiliwidow
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 02:35 PM

What a great idea! Mudcatters in Missouri please let us know if there is an increase in litter on that stretch of road. May as well keep them busy in a legal way...

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:04 PM

Heeheeheeheeeheee!!!!!!! Serves em right.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,Butch
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:19 PM

The Klan is not and was not a religious organization. It was started as a Confederate vets. organization after the Civil War. It became violent very early on. By the 1920's it was VERY popular, but it was still an anti black, anti Jew, anti Catholic, and anti immigration organization. Do not take this from me. The "holy" book of the KKK is in the Lib. of Congress. I believe it is call the Kolan , read it for yourself and see what they have always been about.

Having been a Missouri resident for the first 34 years of my life, I can tell you that the Klan is big there. I was a police officer in the late 1980's and earlly 1990's and the Klan was a pain in my butt. I am glad to see Missouri get back at the Klan in any way they can!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:19 PM

What would be the fine then for dumping shredded KKK literature on that stretch? I know, it's a BAD idea, but.... it has some attraction....

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:38 PM

The Klan was known to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, in 19th century England: read "The Five Orange Pips." I remember reading that the name "Ku Klux" was chosen to imitate the sound of a rifle being cocked, which, if it's true, should say something about the orientation of the group from the beginning.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,ceiliwidow
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:41 PM

One of the on-line search sites shows the name to be derived from the Greek word "kuklos" meaning circle or wheel.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:53 PM

Well, it came full turn for the ********s, didn't it !!??

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: chip a
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:54 PM

Hooray for Missouri & Hooray all over again for Rosa Parks. The biggest heros are usually little people.

Chip

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:02 PM

Love it kat. Thanks.

The Klan was never anything religious except in the minds of the members, and in that sense they have a dogma, an entire catechism of sorts, and are quite similar to any other church. The interpretation of the bible and what it means is so bizarre that it can only make sense as religion if you step back and say, "Okay, here's what they believe, now how can I fit the bible into it?"

Started just after the CW, its first real leader was Nathan Bedford Forrest, a confederate general and cavalry officer of great renown. It has been most active and popular whenever racial and ethnic changes have begun to occur.....and not just in the south! The small towns in the midwest were hotbeds of Klan activity and some still are. And remember, the focus in the 20's was more toward the Jewish than the blacks, because they were the threat economically. There were many klaverns then with huge memberships and it was then that the idea was pawned off that it was no more than a social club.

Hit the library folks, there is some great stuff in print. Much of what you find on the web is written by current neo-nazi/white supremacists and is couched in a form of bigotspeak that requires some interpretation, to say the least.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:16 PM

There are a lot of "churches" which are just like the KKK inasmuch as their chief activities/beliefs are political rather than religious. The white separatist movement usually cloaks itself in an aura of religiosity -- most of the main groups are self-styled "churches."

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:23 PM

There was some justification for a secret vigilante organization like the Klan in the early years following the Civil War, when Union troops still occupied the Southern States, Carpet-bagging political con-artists dominated all local government and law enforcement, and corruption and theft were common behavior by those in power. My grandfather said that they were active in civil emergencies like fires and floods, in helping to clothe and feed the poor, and in making sure that land and business owners weren't dispossessed.

When the Reconstruction ended in the late 1870's though, and the justification for its existence was removed, the organization had grown widespread and powerful, and began to focus its efforts primarily on the racist doctrines that had always been a part of it.It's opposition to the influx of immigrants at the turn of the century, and its opposition to Socialist movements in the 20s and 30s gave the Klan additional surges back into popularity, and the continuing life of this organization lies not in its philosophy of hate, but in its ability to appeal to the angry and disaffected. Witness its rebirth during the Civil Rights movement of the 60s and again among the American farmers who have been losing their land in the 80s and 90s.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:42 PM

As stated, the kkk was first organized in Pulaski TN. right after the war by N.B. Forest for the sole purpose of "keeping the niggers in their place. It was nothing more than a group of terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:44 PM

You are right about it not being only in the South, Spaw. I remember seeing a newspaper article and photograph of a huge cross burning on the lawn of the local college, courtesy of the local klan in the 1950's, here in Wyoming.

Some people are just ignorant. A father of a good friend of my daughter's told her the other day that it just wasn't right for whites to mix with "niggers." Then he remembered her nephews who are mixed race, apologised all over the place. This is a man who really has a good heart, but has spent his entire life in Wyoming. She's talking to him, sharing pictures, and information, so I am hopeful he will learn to understand and feel differently about it. There is a lot of fear of the unknown and falling back on "that's just the way it's always been."

Great info, phoaks,

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:02 PM

While Forrest was the first Grand Wizard, he did not organize the Klan. It is also my understanding that he disbanded the Klan in 1869. (I will have to look that up.) While he may have "officially" disbanded it, I have no doubt that some activities continued.

Forrest accepted the position of Grand Wizard after Robert E. Lee turned it down on account of old age and poor health.

The Klan we know today was revived sometime in the 1920s. During that time its largest membership was in - get ready - INDIANA. Not a Confederate state, last time I checked. Several years ago one of the TV networks did an intriguing movie about Douglas Stephens, Klan Wizard and Indiana resident. Not a very nice man.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:10 PM

Try this: Klan history

It was David Stephenson, not Douglas Stephens. But I was close!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:26 PM

Thanks for nailing that urban legend Alex. Amazing how these stories take root.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:45 PM

Trying to paint( or whitewash?) the Klan in the immediate post-bellum period as a kindly community service group, sort of a proto-Rotary, is the most comical thing I've heard in a long time. Maybe we DO need a national history curriculum after all.

Thread Creep Alert! Lets not forget the flag that the Klan proudly marches under, folks- yup, the Stars and Bars. MS is proud of its Klan heritage too, it seems? Guess Phil Ochs was right.

best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:55 PM

HAAAA HAAAAA!!

Divine Retribution...... Please God let them progress to the Malcolm X roads!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 06:11 PM

My point, Greg, was that the Ku Klux Klan has never relied on race-hate alone for its existence, but has been an opportunistic organization from the onset. My point is also that those who are, indeed, students of American History in general, and the history of the Reconstruction years in particular, will be aware that injustices perpetrated in the Army-occupied South of that period provided fertile ground for the development of groups such as the Klan.

It is also a fairly primitive and obvious tactic to attribute ignorance to those with whom you disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 06:47 PM

It is also a fairly primitive and obvious tactic to attribute ignorance to those with whom you disagree

Um, ya mean, like you're patronizingly doing here? :those who are, indeed, students of American History in general, and the history of the Reconstruction years in particular, will be aware...

That out of the way,I'll agree that the Klan did not SOLELY rely on race hatred, intimidation, murder, lynching, &c &c., but that the exercise of these and the intimidation of Blacks (a.k.a. 'carpetbaggers')in government certainly were the primary reasons for its existence.

There's also a large difference between stating that the military occupation of the south created conditions conducive to the creation of virulently racist anti-Black organizations (what military occupation doesn't involve "injustices") and using Reconstruction to justify, mitigate or condone these groups and the horrors they perpretrated, and CONTINUE to perpetrate.

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Peg
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 08:32 PM

EXCELLENT! Thanks for letting us know, kat...

BTW there is an amazing documentary film about the white supremacy movement in America entitled "Blood in the Face." It won several awards (including Oscar for best documentary) and must be seen to be believed...

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 08:48 PM

As one who enjoyed the opportunity to arrest, and later help convict, the former Grand Dragon of the Pennsylvannia chapter KKK (Roy Frankhouser of Reading PA, for a conspiracy with another great American, Lyndon LaRouche) I'm often amazed at how the Reconstruction era birth of the Klan gets demonized as a result of the violent bigotry it exhibited in later years.

I was further amazed at the bloviation of the encyclopedia article linked earlier. At the end of the Civil War, one of the acts passed by Congress, which has not even been mentioned by anyone, was the Act of Reconciliation. It required an oath be taken in support of the United States government, before any male, black or white, could vote. It further stated that no person serving in the Confederate armed forces could take the oath for ten years after the surrender. Its practical effect was to give the vote to only black males and any Northerner who could get South in time to take the oath and vote. The result was that for the ten years the Act was in effect, every State in the South had almost their entire political hirearchy filled with black Governors, Senators, Congressmen, Sheriffs, aldermen. etc. (You will often note, but never look up, the statement "First black _______ since the Reconstruction"... it saves really messy explainations).

Next, began a chapter that has not been mentioned in any history book for many years. There was an outbreak of rape by Federal troops against Southern women, that spread rapidly and was fed by the belief that the women deserved it for previouly owning slaves. There were several problems with this thought, in that most of the women raped were not of the slave owning class, and the rapes were primarily done by black troops.

The Southerners reacted by forming the Klan, and began shooting Federal troops in the act of rape. The Federal Provost Marshall response, seeing active rebellion in the offing, and realizing that even though they had won the war, armed guerillas could inflict serious damage on a peace-time Federal occupation force that was already being challenged by the Native Americans out West, began to investigate the behavior of it's own troops, shooting 11 black and 8 white troops for rape in 1869 alone. It was at this point that Forrest disbanded the Klan, as the executions made an impression on the Federal troops, and the rapes subsided.

Unfortunately the damage had been done. The black politicians, being lured by the wealth and corruption of absolute political power, were unprepared for the onslaught brought by the secession of the strictures of the Act of Reconciliation ten years later in 1876, and no Southern white man was bound to forget.

D. W. Griffith attempted to portray this period as the "Birth of a Nation" in the first full length motion picture and has been castigated as a "Racist" ever since, yet, as one who knows, it's hard to protect the truth and freedoms we enjoy today, if we only know history that's convenient.

This is all open knowledge, and can readily be accessed on the net. I'm sure one can find the racial make up of the post-Civil War Congress and State legislatures, the Army records of executions, and the wording of the Act of Reconciliation, but apparently not in Encarta.

(Incidently, Roy got out of prison after five years, and recently was named in a Federal enjoinment, requiring him to provide a written apology to some black folks he had maligned in a series of public pronouncements).

The Klan has moved into several areas of Constitutionally protected activities;

Religion- with the rise of the Christian Identity Movement, which believes that the Lost Tribe of Israel, was really a group of Anglo-Saxons who made it to America before the Asian "Indians" crossed the Bering Strait (a view which got a helluva boost recently, with the discovery of the Kennibuck Man skeleton and the Farmville, VA sites, pointing to the existence of a an earlier European "Native American" civilization 5 thousand years before the Asians crossed).

Free Speech- Newspapers and the Web, which thankfully due to education required to read, or access the net, has not resulted in any great increase of Klan membership. (I am further amazed at how Klan membership is vastly overreported by anti-Klan groups seeking donations and visability. My own investigation, covering several years, demonstrated that most of the Klan groups were made up of the same essential membership but with a different uniform and leader. The Morris Dees outfit was reporting on the Klan in PA that had some ten groups with some two hundred members. In fact, it was some ten idiots, each with their own klan, and the other nine idiots belonging to it.

Freedom of Assembly- political and group activities which, until they show signs of breaking a law, allow them to form militia groups, and run through the woods, shooting blanks at imaginary black rapists...

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 09:26 PM

Okay, when we've got to the lunatic fringe fantasy stuff and history written to order and while-you-wait, lauding "Birth of a Nation" as fact and the Klan as a patriotic response to wholesale rape of southern women by Federal Troops, and citing the source to substantiate this utter nonsense as "the web", no point in hanging around this thread any longer seeking rational discussion.

One of the great American Freedoms of long standing is the freedom to cherish your delusions.

'Bye y'all- Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:01 PM

I'm not familiar with the rape report that Claymore has sited and, although it might have indeed been the nominal call-to-arms to justify Klan activity, I feel the actual motivations for Klan organization run deeper.

The Freedmen's Bureau, established in 1865 to affirm the economic and political rights of blacks, was a humanitarian ideal realized, that became tainted through its accumulation of power. It did in fact accomplish much good, including gaining voting rights for blacks, and offering them educational opportunities that had never existed. Thousands of blacks, as well as poor whites, were given food and housing by this agency. The main source of its corruption came in the areas of economic redistribution of industry and land. It was relegated to the Bureau to annex and give over to former slaves some 800,000 acres of farm land, and to redistribute plantations and businesses in like manner, in an attempt to make reparations to blacks. Land was also promised to state residents determined to be loyal to the union, including recent arrivals. This process was highly resented by the white property-owners, who saw the Bureau as ceding land to northern speculators as well as the blacks.

Contrary to what Greg stated, the individuals known as "carpetbaggers" were nearly all white. Many were Freedmen Bureaucrats who not only assisted in what Southerners saw as theft of their property, but in the appointment or election of blacks and union-loyal whites to all government posts, through what amounted to pure bribery and manipulation of the vote. These carpetbagging governments were often dishonest and graft-ridden profit centers for their northern bosses.

I am not in any way attempting to defend the Klan. It has become a wretched organization dedicated to hate and fear. I am, however, attempting to examine the multitude of reasons which gave birth to it, and to declare that there were distinct reasons for its creation apart from the lynching and terrorization of blacks, and that it may indeed have begun as some sort of attempt at self-defense by a defeated people.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:14 PM

EVERYBODY SING!!!

SAIL AWAY
(Randy Newman)

In America you'll get food to eat
Won't have to run through the jungle
And scuff up your feet
You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day
It's great to be an American

Ain't no lions or tigers-ain't no mamba snake
Just the sweet watermelon and the buckwheat cake
Ev'rybody is as happy as a man can be
Climb aboard, little wog, sail away with me

Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay

In America every man is free
To take care of his home and his family
You'll be as happy as a monkey in a monkey tree
You're all gonna be an American

Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: GUEST, Gobstruck
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:33 PM

OK, listen up:
The South, which STARTED the war by an unprovoked attack on a United States Government Military Installation LOST THE FECKING WAR! GET OVER IT!! STOP THE WHINING AND RATIONALIZATION ABOUT THE "GLORY" OF THE 'LOST CAUSE'
How were United States troops supposed to deal with people who had been shooting at them for four years, and continued to shoot at them after the surrender? Kiss and make up?
You people are unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Troll
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:40 PM

Greg, Instead of debunking Claymores post as "utter nonsense", why not do a little research yourself and prove the truth or falsity of his statements with references. I think that would make your point much better than flaming.
If you have definite documentation to show that his statements are false, why not share it? If you don't, then fairness would dictate that you clearly state that you are expressing your opinion and nothing more.
You are right about one thing though; we do cherish our delusions.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:00 PM

Rednecks

(Randy Newman)

We talk real funny down here
We drink too much n we laugh too loud
We too dumb to make it in no Northern Town
And we keepin' the nigras down

(chorus)We're Rednecks, We're Rednecks
We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're Rednecks, we're rednecks
And we're keepin' the nigras down

We got no-neck oilmen from Texas
Good ol' boys from Tennessee
College men from LSU
Went in dumb, come out dumb too
Hustlin' round Atlanta in their Alligator shoes
Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
And keepin' the nigras down

Now your Northern nigra's a Negro
You see he's got his dignity
Down here we're too iggorant to realize
The North has set the nigra free
Free to be kept in a cage in the Roxbury in Boston
Free to be kept in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
Free to be kept in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
Free to be kept in a cage in the South side of Chicago (and the West side)
They gatherin' em up from miles around
Keepin the nigras down

We're Rednecks, We're Rednecks
We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're Rednecks, we're rednecks
And we're keepin' the nigras down

I'd be careful about throwing that first stone

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Banjer
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 06:03 AM

My only wish is that before people make false satetments they would research what they speak of! It irks me that when the Confederate Battle Flag is used as an example it is improperly named. ie:

Lets not forget the flag that the Klan proudly marches under, folks- yup, the Stars and Bars.

The Stars and Bars is the name given to the First National Flag of the Confederate States of America. It had three horizontal bars, red at top and bottom with a white one at the middle. In the left upper corner is a blue field containing seven white stars, denoting the original seven states to secede from the Union. If you are going to attack my heritage, please first get your facts straight! Thank You!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:13 PM

Gobstruck Guest, you might check to see what Abraham Lincoln said regarding how the South, after capitulation, should be viewed and treated.

'Carpetbaggers', nowadays, could be called 'briefcase toters'. Carpet bags were actually carpet-sided (for durability) bags first primarily carried by 'drummers' (no relation to music- so what's changed? *G*) for their wares and then by the speculators as well as other 'visitors' from the north.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Kim C
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:31 PM

Didn't Lincoln say something about "malice toward none" at that little cornfield called Gettysburg?

Yes we lost. Yes we surrendered. But after surrendering and once again becoming United States citizens, a lot of people were denied their inalienable rights as United States citizens.

It's my personal opinion that Andrew Johnson was the lynchpin in the Reconstruction business. He was in the tough position of being a Southerner himself - he couldn't appear to be soft on the rebels, so he was mighty tough on them.

If Lincoln had lived I think things would have gone differently. But it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback, isn't it?

And don't call me "you people." Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:39 PM

And don't call me "you people." Thank you.

Being a Southerner, she would prefer "y'all." :-)

(Just kidding Kim! Don't shoot!)

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Kim C
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:42 PM

Actually, I would prefer "y'all"! (heeheehee)

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: Amergin
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:43 PM

Kim, what I was taught in my history classes was that Johnson wanted to be lenient on the former confederacy....

It was that he had no power/influence in the government. The Republican majority would pass some vengeance law and he would veto it.....then they would just override his veto. Which needs a 2/3 majority and therefore alot of trouble....They eventually got tired of this game and tried to impeach him to get him out of the way.....

Subject: RE: BS: Some Sweet Justice Against the KKK
From: paddymac
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 12:48 PM

An interesting thesis topic for a persistent student might be to investigate possible linkages and commonalities between the KKK and the Orange Order.