BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:27 PM

Edain, those photos are outstanding...the composition, perspective, etc. Thanks for posting them.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 08:33 PM

Today has been better -- the wind came in from the west for a good while and brought cooling moisture, and this afternoon there was actually some normal blue in the sky.

However the area of Julian was still in desperate battle last I heard. That may have changed later today.

Agree re the photos, Edain.


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 08:55 PM

Californians may still build wooden houses, but they no longer have wooden roofing. You don't see wood shingles on new houses any more, although there are certain flame-retardant wood shingles that are still legal. All new or replacement roofs in California have to be flame-retardant. Frame houses hold up better in earthquakes. The main concern for fire danger has always been roofing, not walls.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 09:40 PM

the continuing news coverage is so very sad and scary. I'm glad that names I know are 'ok', but I hurt for all those who have lost everything.....and the firefighters who are working for MANY hours without rest are amazing! I think I'd rather deal with hurricanes, thanks...(wish we could send you a mini-hurricane with lots of water for 2-3 hours!)

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:14 PM

It is very sad to see. One young woman lost her mother who was trying to save their horses. My daughter just called to say a firefighter was lost according to the news she was watching. Did I hear right, they think one of these was arson?

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:21 PM

Yes, we think it's arson.

I know the fighter who got killed. Used to work with him.

Four folks who work for my department are deployed in San Berdoo now.

It won't be over for a long time.

D

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: NicoleC
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:21 PM

More than one, kat. One is definite, but an 'accident' from a fire a hunter set in the woods trying to signal a friend. Another is almost certainly arson. I suspect that when the ash settles we'll find out that most of them are -- any time there are big fires there always seem to be arsonists that suddenly pop up and set more.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:54 PM

Sick but true, Nicole. Dave, my condolences. There is no end to the tragedies these incredible fires have caused on the human scale.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:04 PM

That is so terrible. Dave, my condolences and may your other friends come through safely.

May Light, Love, and Lots of Rain come your way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:18 PM

This will give you an idea of what all areas are involved.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:20 PM

In SD County one of the three fires is now contained.

The two which are not however are galloping. The mountain town of Julian is doing a desperate Alamo-like stand to prevent encroachment on its central zone; the pines on its outskirts are going up like Roman candles.

To the north, the mountain called Palomar, where the Observatory is (and two friends of mine live with their horses), is under assault as we speak -- this is the mountain that looks down on the Pauma Valley near route 78. The Otay fire is the one that is under control.

As mentioned above, one firefighter has lost his life and three have been seriously injured in the Julian battle.

This has been three days of hell for those doing the fighting and those whose property has been lost and loved ones harmed.

There is no threat to the regions where Banjoest is nor the area where Edain is and where I am.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:02 AM

The forecast is calling for a 40% chance of showers on Friday. Keep your fingers crossed. Even if we get it, it won't be enough to put the fires out but it might give the firefighters a leg up on getting these guys under control.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:15 AM

Notice in the pictures that all the smoke is blowing towards the ocean. That is caused by the Santa Ana winds. The wind usually blows to the east away from the ocean in Califoria.

We're about 250 miles north and the wind changed direction here Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. On Tuesday we had all the windows open (off shore winds) but on Wednesday we needed heat in the house (on shore winds).

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:36 AM

I grew up in San Bernardino. Just found out from relatives (who are all safe for the time being) that the house my grandparents moved into in the 1950s when they moved from Brockport, NY, was destroyed by the fire. It was in Devore (which is north of San Bernardino on the way to the Cajon Pass).


As for woden houses - Joe's correct - it's the roofs that are the things that need to be protected. Flying embers ignight them and then the house goes. Non-flammible roofs almost totally elliminate the problem - the only ones that burn in forest fires are those that are in the direct path of a fire. And it doesn't matter what they're built of then - the fire will get inside and burn a concrete block house down from the inside out.

As for wooden houses in "hurricane alley" After 25 years of living in south and central Florida I can tell you that once again, it's the roofs that are the weak point. In a moderate hurricane, stick-built houses typically resist damage, especially if they're built with roofs that are strapped down to the concrete foundation. But if the roof rips off, the house is gone. Doesn't matter if the house is wood or CBS (concrete block structure). I can tell you from first hand experience in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992 that hundreds CBS houses were completely destroyed by the tornadoes that Andrew spawned.

stay safe all you Southern Californians . . .

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: open mike
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:43 AM

I am working at the local cdf fire station.
one of the two engines from here has been
sent down south. today we sent a fire fighter to
Julian to replace a fellow who was injured.
Blessings to the family and friends and co-
workers of the fellow who fell in the line
of duty. a paramedic, i hear. We had a 1,000
acre fire this morn at 2:30, and our engine
went to a 100 acre fire on sunday. we barely
have enough people to cover here in butte
county as many are in san diego and some
also were sent toredding area this week.
I hope every one stays safe. ok got to go..
Laurel

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 11:03 AM

Be safe, Laurel. Stay hydrated and keep that shake and bake where you can find it in a hurry.

D

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:44 PM

It's a bit drizzly today across LA and quite cool. I guess the planes are grounded but at least the guys on the ground should be getting some good conditions today!

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: GUEST,Dave Swan
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 05:14 PM

I just had an update from friends on the fireline. Their engine company was the one next to Steve Rucker when he was overrun. My friend Shane and his crew were subjected to the same wind change as Rucker and were in a bad way. They had fire all around and were well and truly screwed. As they made preparations to kiss their asses goodbye, a helicopter appeared and dropped its load directly on them. They were knocked to the ground, nearly knocked out, but wet enough to survive.

It's frustrating as hell not to be there to help out. I'm still 300 miles away covering my district. I hope to get on a relief crew and get sent down there soon. They'll need help for a long time.

D

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 06:11 PM

Dave:

You know you have a home base if you need one.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:08 PM

Thanks, pal. If I get down there, I'll throw myself on the mercy of your shower and fridge.

See you soon up here if not there huh?

D

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:24 PM

It just sounds hair-raising. Ipm prayin' for rain in all the right places. (we've got a few flooded fields we've had so much. What irony.)
Take care all ye west coast folks.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:31 PM

Roger that.

At present we have a 100-mile long ridge line where two fires are about 40% contained. The current prognostication is that the winds will swing more from the West and steer the fires away from Julian and Pine Valley.

The areas that have now been extinguished are devastated, homes lying in ash and gutted cars bearing gruesome mute witness. Insurance assessors are moving in emergency vans and issuing first-response checks...we heard one interview with a couple who had been within 57 payments of owning the home that was just reduced to rubble, and under insured on it. It has been a week of tears in San Diego County, and I am glad it is drawing to a close.


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:41 PM

On the news tonight: several of the firefighters at Julian watched their own homes go up in flames while they tried to save someone else's. Some have worked 30 hours straight. Amazing commitment and courage.

2600 homes have burned. It is hard to imagine.

Dave - stay safe. I am about to get Spaw on your case. You are spoiling the reputation of the Layabouts At Large.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 12:52 AM

I second that, Dave, be careful! I am really glad that helicopter showered your friends.

I don't understand it because I saw the satellite photos which showed the winds blowing the smoke out to sea, but on some level it was blowing it this way. We've had smoke all day, obscuring the mountains around our valley. The news said it was from the CA fires!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: NicoleC
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 01:50 AM

Ditto on that offer, Dave, if you happen to be a bit further north where I might be closer than Amos. Although I would hope that accomodations are provided for the firefighters that are coming from other areas!

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Escamillo
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 02:20 AM

I'm concerned about Californian Mudcatters, families and friends. Stay safe, please.

Un abrazo
Andrés, in Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 04:48 AM

Like the other 'Catters, I was saddened to hear of the death of a firefighter. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in the middle of this. The worst we got even in this drought year was a few heathland fires. Idiot arsonists rarely seem to get caught up in the consequences of their actions. Best wishes to all affected.

RtS
(WE've just had our first real rain for weeks)

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: open mike
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:07 PM

Well, after 100 hours of filling in at the fire station,
the snow here today lowered the fire danger and we were
sent home. (though the traffic accident danger level is
high now due to slippery roads)

We were on a strike team assignment a few years back
at a 60,000 acre fire the "Cottonwood" when we read
the instructions on the fire shelters and in spanish
it said Sacudides meaning to shake it out....we promptly
named our groupo the Sacudides Hot Shots...in jest.

Sunday, our engine responded to a 100 acre fire which was
started by a stupid cigarette smoker. one home was destroyed
and many others threatened...i think these costs should be
figured in when determining how much damage the tobacco
companies do!! the millions of dollars which must be spent each
year to suppress road side fires due to cigarettes being
throw out windows must be a huge amount!! I do not know of
and figures on this, but i see it happen very often!!

thanks for the good advice dave, and i hope you stay safe
and succeed in nay efforts you may engage in.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM

Here's to you both, Dave and Open Mike -- stay well, safe and brave.

Gracias, Andres--que lo vaya bien!!

The worst is over and the reconstruction is underway.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:44 PM

Best of luck to you all. I hope our fire season is over here, but we're looking at a warm winter and dry spring, so next year might be worse than last. We're getting a lot of California's smoke, so it all isn't going out to sea.

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 09:19 AM

Hey! It rained!! It rained in the night!! Yaaaaay!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Mudcatters okay with fires?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 01:51 PM

Here in Northern California, we had our first storm of the season Thursday and Friday. It closed Interstate 80 all day, and I had to do some back-roads maneuvering yesterday to get around the detour. As Open Mike says, the storm should reduce our fire danger up here. I'm glad we took one last hike in the High Sierra last weekend, before it all got covered with snow. The snow got down to 3,000 feet. We're at 2,300, so all we got was much-needed rain.
It clouded out our chance of seeing Northern Lights, though - darn!
-Joe Offer-