We're Toronto bound

Subject: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:31 AM

Well, in 2002 I set of for a family wedding in Virginia. Travelled with my partner(musical and otherwise) fiddler Kate Barfield, and had a brilliant fortnight around Virginia with excursions into W Virginia and Maryland. My first visit to America.(I live in England.I phrased that sentence advisedly). We had a lot of fun, played some gigs and parties,saw the siights, met some fine people, drunk some beer.
    Now, on October 21 another family wedding is going to take us to Toronto. So we thought we might take some time out, try to earn a bob or two with gigs and/or have some fun. Can anybody tell us nice/nasty things about the music scene or anything, in Toronto or further afield.
   I have studied Mudcat posts closely, and gather that Canada is always perceived in relation to the USA. It is larger, less murderous,pronounces zed wrongly(or rightly), is more boring(though this opinion seems to come from the USA mainly).I have also observed that all people in the USA pretend to be Irish, while everyone in Canada pretends to be Scottish. Is there any historical basis for this? I also understand that all Americans throw their tea into Boston harbour, whereas Canadians pour boiling water on it and drink it.
   Information, preferably of a useful kind(but that is not essential) would be very wlecome. Incidentally, we play fiddle and guitar, and have made lots of records etc which we can send to promoters as required.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:38 AM

*grin* interesting (but understandable) viewpoint! There a a number of 'catters in Toronto environs and likewise elsewhere in Ontario - so you should be able to get answers.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 10:11 AM

More boring???????!

Egad....

~b.w. from Toronto.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 10:14 AM

greg, I'm sure you'll be excited to know we grow the best wacky tobacky in the world right here in Ontario, and our beer makes American brew taste like dishwater. So if you're willing and able to disorient yourself accordingly, you're in for a REAL good time!   ;-)

Seriously though, here's a link for the Orillia Folk Society, and the folkie calendar for Simcoe County (just north of Toronto). I suggest you contact Jives for information about upcoming concerts, places to stay, maybe even booking a concert yourself if you like! It would be a pleasure to meet you, if you do decide to venture north of the Big Smoke (Toronto). And Toronto has a lively folk scene too ... I'm sure the Toronto Catters will be in touch.

Take care,

daylia

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 10:32 AM

Daylia said:
and our beer makes American brew taste like dishwater.

Daylia, we dont need any help on that, by and large!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 11:12 AM

Greg, I don't know if Toronnians pronounce Z correctly or not.

I DO believe that if you complained about something in British, a USian would likely either say 'Huh?' or 'Listen, pal. This is AMERICA, where we speak ENGLISH, so if ya wanna talk to people, ya gotta learn the language. Got it, buster?'

A Canadian is more likely to say 'I'm sorry' whether he understands you or not. (Please note that while a lot of jokes can be made about Canadian politeness, I admire politeness and empathy.)

They also use a lot of zees where we (US) use esses. They leave u's in words that we've removed them from, and they actually pronounce them.

Greg & Kate are very good (as is the Boat Band), and hopefully will get as many gigs as they want.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 11:32 AM

Thank you for all your replies, please keep them coming. I should really emphasise that while we are looking for the odd gig to help defray expenses(being humble musicians with no day jobs): we especially want to hear some local music and meet musicians socially. And we're willing to travel. Probably not enough time to go out to the west, but we could surely manage a bit of French fiddling and maritime exploration. We'd need advice on how long it takes to travel around those differeent parts.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 11:39 AM

Greg,
Have a butter tart while you're here. Oh, and some ketchup chips (crisps, to you). According to a TV program last week on "Talking Canadian", those are very Canadian snack foods that only we eat.

Other terms Canadians have: eavestrough, couch (sofa, replaced the term "chesterfield" sometime in the late 50s), in Thunder Bay only a stag & doe is called a "shag", a two-four is a case of beer, a "molson muscle" is a beer gut...

But we still need a word for those big brown chunks of ice in the middle of the road that have fallen off our cars.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 11:43 AM

A link to the program I mentioned above.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 11:55 AM

Cluin, those ice chunks are called "car boogers" here in the far north. Not too classy, but nobody up here cares.

Mike

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:04 PM

pothole droppings

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:09 PM

...our beer makes American brew taste like dishwater.

I got to admit it's true, but only if you're comparing mass market beers. I'll put some of our small-brewery specialty beers up against any on the planet.

Peter.

(Coming off a pleasant evening of music and Otter Creek Stovepipe Porter, out of Middlebury, VT.)

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 01:57 PM

Differences between Canadian and American audiences:

It is not easy to get Canadians to sing along, though if you shame them into it, they will readily clap along. There are exceptions of course... east coasters in particular like to have a good time. Also all Canadians seem have a particular affinity for fiddle jigs & reels. It's one of the few instances where they will let themselves "go" in public (other than at a rave or hockey game). In concerts they almost seem to consider it impolite to join in.

Americans, on the other hand, will quite readily sing along, yell along, clap along, stopm along. etc. with little or no prompting
(this is true both in bar and concert settings). It really gets you pumped up to play and sing.

Canadians are in general lousy tippers. Americans tip well and often; it almost seems a matter of pride with them. Of course, your average bar staff in the States is less well paid than in Canada. Canada has a higher minimum wage for them.

In an American bar/pub, things will get quite loud, whereas Canadian places are quieter. I'm not talking about the music being played; I am talking about the patrons. Best friends will usually stand inches apart and yell into each others faces at the top of their lungs for hours. In a similar situation in a Canadian bar, it means a punch will be thrown before you can count to 10.

It kind of pains me to say it, but in a lot of ways, I prefer American audiences; more participation, more tips (better pay for the gigs too, usually), more reasonable requests and enthusiasm/gratitude for your doing them... I've also never had to fend off a dangerous drunk in the States (they seem to take less offence to being kidded).

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 02:10 PM

I think youse all are talkin about Toronto the Good..if you want to have fun in the unboring Canada come east, the further east the better, especially Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. And the beer here is some good boy.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM

Okay, let's all insult Ontario and those of us who live there. Continue....

~b.w.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 03:08 PM

Not Ontario, just Toronto. :)=

Greg, distances are large here. It's like a two-day drive to Halifax from Toronto. Four or five days to the west coast. If you want to get a taste of down east (where your kind of music resides), when you're making your travel arrangements you might look into flying from ye Auld Countrie to Halifax or St John's (Newfoundland, not to be confused with Saint John, New Brunswick), spending a couple days, then on to Toronto.

For one thing, the Celtic Colours festival in Cape Breton will be winding down just before your specified date there. Look it up, it's a big deal.

For the main clearinghouse of Canadian folk music info, see http://www.northernjourney.com/

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST,Guest (CET)
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM

Those brown chunks of frozen stuff are slurds (lots of 'em in Brandon, Manitoba, where I find myself now.)

Greg: If you think your travels might take you to the Ottawa area, send me a PM. Perhaps a party could be arranged.

Edmund

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:37 PM

Let's make that a blue clickie, W-O....
http://www.northernjourney.com.

There's also Maplepost...
~b.w.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From:
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:52 PM

Greg, I don't know about the beer. (Don't touch the stuff [and YES, I am a Caper!]).

Cluin makes some good points. Eastern audiences (in particular Nova Scotians and Newfoundlanders have no problems joining in on songs.
Not sure about tips, but depending on service, I average 20% to 75% or higher.
Maritime venues are better for performers than Ontario from what I've heard. Performers get paid by the venue here. I've been told that in Ontario it is much like the states where the performers are much like buskers and pass the hat after a performance.

Willie-O is quite right about the Celtic Colours event. You'd get to see some of the best musicians of the "Celtic variety for 10 days all across the island. Incredible jams in the late evening through the early morning (11PM through 8AM). IT runs just prior to the 21st. This year, the celebrations run between October 8 and the 16th. Check it out at Celtic Colours Website. Not much specifics on this years performers yet, but that will show up in a few months.

Come on DOWN to the Maritimes.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 05:02 PM

"I've been told that in Ontario it is much like the states where the performers are much like buskers and pass the hat after a performance....."

Only when they're busking.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 03:57 AM

Thank you all very very much. This is very interesting, especially the Cape Breton dates which give me some ideas. I will start making contact with people.
Keep it coming.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 09:08 AM

I've just been looking in the atlas. Toronto to Nova Scotia/Cape Breton looks a bit further than we might care to be driving, but it would obiously be more interesting than the plane. So, which is the best driving route...it's not obvious from my map which would be the quickest/most interesting/prettiest (i iamgine these criteria would produce different routes). Any advice?

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: *daylia*
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 09:33 AM

greg, if you want to experience French culture en route to the Maritimes, I suggest you take the 401 East out of Toronto. It will take you through Oshawa and Cornwall and on into Quebec. If you like big bilingual multi-cultural cities, you'll want to spend a day or two in Montreal, I bet. Just drive with a LOT of caution there, as Montreal drivers are very much like European ones   ;-)

Then, follow the St Lawrence River up to Quebec City (stay on the north side of the river), and spend a day there if you can. It's the oldest, most "European-flavoured" city in Canada imo -- lots of good eats, bistros, French Canadian folk-music. And the Plains of Abraham are there as well, where Wolff defeated Montcalm and claimed Quebec for the British centuries ago. (if you're into that kind of thing at all, you won't want to miss out on this pivotal moment in Canadian history).

When I drove out east, I crossed the St Lawrence at Quebec City and continued eastwards through New Brunswick, and then on to Nova Scotia. It's a beautiful drive, and if you do travel across New Brunswick I suggest stopping at the Reversing Falls in St. John (the provincial capital), on the Bay of Fundy. They have the highest tides in the world there, so high that on the Full Moons the water actually reverses direction and flows UP the falls. It's quite the unusual phenomena! But you do have to time yourself to be there on the Full Moon ....

Good luck planning your visit!

daylia

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From:
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 04:27 PM

Well, it is a fair distance from Cape Breton, but roughly 3 days taking it easy, or 2 days should get you to Toronto. That would get you there in time.

Black Walnut, That's what I was told happens from performers from here trying to get to perform in the bars in the Toronto area and Texas and a few other places in the US. These are guys who perform here now or were travelling through the area from places in the states.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:32 PM

Well, I've never heard of it happening, George, and it's not the norm.

Driving from the Maritimes to Ontario is a big deal. It takes a long time if you want to enjoy to trip - that is, if you want to stop and admire the scenery, or drop into a Tim's.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Micca
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:05 AM

Greg, if you have a Cider drinker among the line up , In Toronto the pubs had some good bottled Cider made from single varieties of apple like Grannie Smiths and one or 2 others,, they serve them in a pint mug, 2 bottles, lots of ice, and on a hot summers evning it is the Canines Testicles, but can get you pished fairly quick as it goes down real easy

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 11:24 AM

On the other hand, there's lots of musical happenings happening just west of Toronto (45 min. to 3 hours worth of driving). I have a personal website that makes an attempt at keeping track of some of it. Try ww.jeremiah.ca

There's also an excellent one-day folk festival, called "Octoberfolk", In Brantford, Ontario (about 2 hours or less from TO) that would be well worth your time. Saturday October 2 is the date.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 01:48 PM

Jeremiah McCaw: thanks a lot, the stuff on your site is very interesting.
I think from what has been said, that driving from toronto to cape breton(or vice versa, or both) will be too much for the time available, but we certainly ought to true to visit both. And some Quebec time as well. We'd better start looking at planes.
    Mind you you, a bit of gentle boating would be fun, even if we didnt get anywhere very much.There seem to be quite a few lakes and rivers that I've heard of(and a lot that I haven't). anybody got a boat on the St lawrence?

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST,honestfrankie
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:59 PM

Hello Greg,

    There are several house concert locales in the general Toronto area for income and/or meeting players etc. I may be hosting the odd one at my place in the Niagara Falls area about an hour from TO. If something like that sounds like what you're after let me know. Maybe you could send a CD. If you're interested I'll send you my address etc.                                                Frankie

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 03:56 AM

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 08:08 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: black walnut
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 09:58 AM

Re: Toronto Friday night song circle....PM me when you're in town for up-to-date information if you'd like to join us.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Lil Dog Turpy
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:01 PM

I'd have to say Montreal is a great place to stop in. It's about 7 hours drive on the 401 from Toronto. There is a session here almost every day of the week. The ones I visit regularly are O'Reagans pub on Bishop, just south of Ste Catherines on Wednesday nights (beginners and social playing) and MacKibbins on Cresent, just north of Ste Catherines on Sunday nights (more irreverant material but excellent banjo and singing). I believe Hurley's pub and MacKibbins have Saturday sessions (I've not been but I gather more traditional whistle - fiddle music). If you need accomodation I'd be happy to put you up so long as you can cope with three dogs and a cat :-) Drop me a line.

Robin

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Marion
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:17 PM

Hi Greg, sorry I missed this thread first time around. I think that I will probably be living in Toronto in October, and I'd love to meet you.

Marion

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 07:16 AM

Where are you now, marion? Still peripatetic? Any information on other places in Canada (I'm going to rove around a bit)?. Do keep in touch if your settle in Toronto.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 10:19 AM

REFRESH
Well, we've settled on the dates, flying to Toronto on Oct 12 and back to Blighty on Oct 24. May slip to Cape Breton and/or Prince Edward Island for a few days in the middle of that period. So anybody got any bright ideas for fun activities for a guitar/fiddle duo, lots of songs, looking to give and receive entertainment.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: TS
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 11:05 AM

Greg...great time of yr to discover the Maritimes...Fall is in full bloom...lovely reds, yellows, and golds on all the trees...bring your long underwear though..might be a touch chilly in the nights. I think Rollo Bay, PEI will still be having their weekly Ceilidhs every Thursday evening into Oct...might end in the early fall though. I also think you'll be in the Region in time for Celtic Colours in Cape Breton...some great music guarantee!...enjoy your trip!..enjoy the Keith's Beer and in NS pick up a bottle of Glen Breton..the only single malt distilled in Canada!....Slainte!

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 12:56 PM

Yes ... except don't touch the Keith's beers. They are crap.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 01:05 PM

I can vouch for greg & Kate as good house guests ....and musicians who know more styles & songs than you can shake a stick at. They will even cook breakfast....(I think it was to be sure it was done right...but...*grin*)

(Durn, greg...Oct 12 is getting SO near the Getaway in MD...wish you had more time!)

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 08:14 PM

Thank you for those kind words, Bill. But I'm sure we'll have no breakfast problems in Canada, they stayed loyal to the Empire didnt they? I'm sure they'll understand a nice cup of tea, bacon,egg, fried bread, fried egg, black pudding, white pudding, beans,mushrooms, devilled kidneys, pork sausages, toast, rose's Lime Marmelade, decent coffee, the Guardian and the Sun. And a little tot of some obscure and illegal local hooch. And then we're ready for a snooze, a stroll by the sea down to the bar for the afternoon session.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: semi-submersible
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 02:06 PM

You might have trouble finding your puddings & kidneys. Rose's lime cordial I've often seen, but lime marmalade'll take some searching too. We stay loyal to the rest, though. (Sometimes mushrooms, etc are scrambled in the eggs.)

As to "z"s, the letter was called "zed" here in Canada until Sesame Street brainwashed our youth into rhyming it with "vee." Many of those tots are the Kindergarten teachers of today. :b

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From:
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 04:50 PM

Hey, Greg, have you looked at the artists coming to Celtic Colours? Oct 9 to the 18th. On one stage, Bards & Ballads, they will have Dougie MacLean, David Francey, James Keelaghan, and Rita MacNeil.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 05:53 PM

Are you going, George?

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 07:50 PM

Noting this thread with interest, since Sheryl and I will likely be in Toronto the weekend of the 8th-10th ourselves. That Friday song circle sounds potentially interesting.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From:
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 08:43 PM

I'm ALWAYS at the Celtic Colours Festival. Even if I have NO money, I'll probably be there. Have a look at the discussion group at Celtic Colours Forum

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM

I tried to communicate with the Celtic Colours Forum but I'm too stupid to make it work.I'll try again some time. I couldnt fugure out how to join up.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: hesperis
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:40 AM

Toronto in itself would be fun enough for the trip, most likely. You'll either have to fly out to the maritimes or make that a separate trip sometime, unless you want to cram so much in that you won't even have time to enjoy it all.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 06:23 PM

we will go to the Maritimes if we get a gig to pay for the airfare from Toronto,otherwise we'll stay around Ontario/Quebec.We have great hopes for Celtic Colours. We are the main people who specialise in Cumbrian tunes, and Cumbria means "land of the Celts". Of course, it may be that Celtic means Irish or Scottish to these guys, but we will see.

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 12:27 PM

Refreshing
It's getting near
Still looking for gigs/fun. We arrive a fortnight todaY( October 12). We have cancelled the maritimes excursion, no decent gig turned up, and anyway 12 days is not enough to meet folks in Ontario and go to enjoy Prince Edward Island or Cape Breton. We'll save that one for next time. So anything on the Toronto/Ottowa axis, we're up for.
Looks like we'll be doing a radio show in Toronto on Thurs October 14, and a spot at the Flying Cloud Club on Sunday 17. Any other ideas welcome, especially anything interesting near Portland, Ontario, where we are going to see Kate's Auntie June

Subject: RE: We're Toronto bound
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 01:18 PM

There's a folk/blues club about 1 mile from downtown called Hugh's Room. Great place with great talent. The web address is http://www.hughsroom.com/. They have some fine entertainment while you are there.