Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?

Subject: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 12:17 AM

Hi,

I've been looking at the series of sweetheart-murder ballads and have some questions. I'm focused on miller/nosebleed series and am trying to understand the Berkshire tragedy, a broadside that entered oral circulation. Who wrote it? From what printer did it come and when?

According to Cox and others the murder was committed by "John Mauge, a Miller, who was executed at Reading in Berkshire, on Saturday the 20th of last month, for the barbarous murder of Anne Knite, his sweet-heart." Was John Mauge a real person who killed Anne Knite in 1744?

If so how could the broadside be printed earlier?

I wrote this on my site in a few hours but stopped, realizing I needed to learn -- who done it???

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/6-bloody-miller-berkshire-tragedy-wexford-girl.aspx

Comments and posts are welcome!!!

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 12:47 AM

Hi,

According to the ballad the killer when suspicion fell on him after the sweetheart disappeared he attempted to put the authorities off the scent by placing an advertisement in "the post boy" offering a reward for the discovery of her body. Could there be and ad placed in the Post Boy in the early 1700s?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 12:55 AM

Hi,

Ebsworth gives a date of circa 1700. I found a version dated 1720. Any other early printings?

The location has been postulated to be outside Oxford at Wytham (Wytham Mill).

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 09:24 AM

The Ballad Index mentions a broadside of 1656 which would predate the 1700 date given above. I can't find it in the Bodleian online catalogue. The format of the song (seems to be based on a dance) and the supernatural nature of some of the versions make me think that this is based on something quite old.

Out of interest, I have noticed that most (all?) of the bow down versions of the song don't have the supernatural bit at the end but the "dreadful wind and rain" versions so, the exception being the version sung by Phyllis Marks of West Virginian which has both bow down and a singing violin.

Also out of interest, at a singing party at my house the other day, a friend from Virginia sang an Appalachian version of the Two Sisters whereupon my friend Charlie sang the Berkshire Tragedy, much to our vistor's delight.

None of which answers your whodunit query but I thought you might like to know.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 11:10 AM

Hi,

Please post the Charlie's text if you have it. I'm putting all the texts on my site!! I'll also post the broadside text from Boston dated 1829.

There is one version of the Two Sister's titled Berkshire Tragedy which has caused some confusion.

This is the source of Cox and others attribution of John Mauge being the killer:

----------------

Notices of Fugitive Tracts
By James Orchard Halliwell, 1851 p. 90

118. THE BERKSHIRE TRAGEDY, OR THE WHITTAM MILLER, who MosT BARBAROUSLY MURDER'D His SwBETHEART. 12mo, Edinburgh. Printed for John Keed, in the Swan-closs, 1744.

In verse, with a cut of the miller on the gallows. It concludes with "the last dying words and confession of John Mauge, a miller, who was executed at Reading, in Berkshire, on Saturday, the 20th of last month, for the barbarous murder of Anne Knite, his sweetheart."

---------------

Obviously the names may be spelled differently: Maunge; Mage; Maude etc or Knight; Kite etc.

I didn't see that early date- Ballad index has c. 1700 probably from Ebsworth (Roxburghe) who offers no proof.

Berkshire did follow William Grismond c. 1658 and Bloody Miller c.1683 both are murders of a pregnant sweetheart.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 11:51 AM

I have never recorded Charlie singing it as I assumed he got it from a literary source. His text is pretty much as here. The text is reproduced in full in the book "The Scouring of the White Horse" by Tom Hughes. Does that help?

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 04:36 PM

Sure, TY.

I have more detailed information which possibly could help.

Drummond's print for John Keed in the Edinburgh chapbook gives the murderer-- John Mauge, the murdered-sweetheart-- Anne Knite, and the date- since Saturday the 20th would be June in 1744, the printing should have been made in July, 1744.

It would seem unlikely that a printer would falsely give such detailed information without it being true. As far as I know- no one has found any corroborating information -- yet :)

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 05:41 PM

Hi,

Here's the Deming broadside of "Lexington Miller" - written from 'Berkshire Tragedy' published in Boston c. 1829. I have copy of it on my site.

The Lexington Miller

Come all you men and maidens dear, to you I will relate.
Pray lend an ear and you shall hear concerning my sad fate,
My parents brought me up with care, provided for me well,
And in the town of Lexington employ'd me in a mill.

'Twas there I 'spied a comely lass, she cast a winning eye,
I promis'd I would marry her if she would but comply:
I courted her about six months, which caused us pain and woe;
'Twas folly brought us into a snare, and it prov'd our overthrow.

Her mother came to me one day as you shall understand,
Begging that I would appoint a day, and marry her at hand;
It was about one month from Christmas, O, cursed be that day,
The devil put in to my heart to take her life away.

I was perplex'd on every side, no comfort could I find
Then for to take her life away, my wicked heart inclin'd;
I went unto her sister's house at eight o'clock at night,
And she, poor soul, little thought or knew I ow'd her any spite.

I said, come go along with me, out door a little way,
That you and I may both agree upon our wedding day,
Then hand in hand I led her on, down to some silent place;
I took a stake out of the fence, and struck her on the face.

Now she upon her knees did fall, and most heartily did cry,
Saying, kind sir, don't murder me for I am not fit to die;
I would not harken unto her cries, but laid it on the more,
Till I had taken her life away, which I could not restore.

All in the blood of innocence, my trembling hand have dy'd,
All in the blood of her who should have been my lawful bride;
She gave a sigh and bitter groan, and cast a wishful look,
I took her by the hair of the head and flung her in the brook.

Now straight unto the Mill I went, like one that's in a maze,
And first I met was my servant boy, who deeply on me gaz'd;
How came that blood upon your hands, likewise on your clothes?
I instantly made reply, 'twas bleeding of the nose.

I called for a candle, the same was brought to me.
And when the candle I had light, an awful sight I see;
Now straightway unto bed I went, thinking relief to find,
It seemed as if the plagues of hell, were lodg'd within my mind.

Next day her body was search'd for, but it could not be found,
Then I was in my chamber seized, and in my chains were bound.
In two or three days after, this fair maid she was found,
Came floating by her mother's house, that was near Wentontown.

Her sister swore against me, she said she had no doubt,
'Twas I that took her life away, as 'twas I that led her out.
It's now my end comes hastening on, and death approaches nigh,
And by my own confession I am condemn'd to die.

Now fare you well to Lexington, where my first breath I drew,
I warn all men and maidens, to all their vows prove true.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 14 Oct 16 - 10:53 PM

Hi,

I've added a page and some woodcuts:
http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/6-bloody-miller-berkshire-tragedy-wexford-girl.aspx

Some Ballad Identifiers

1. The ballad story is told in the first person as a "dying confession" from a repentant murderer.
2. A miller or a miller's apprentice seduces a girl and she becomes pregnant.
3. When her father tries to persuade him to marry her, he lures her to a secluded place and murders her.
4. When accused of the murderer's blood runs from his nose, or he claims the blood on his clothes and hands is from a nosebleed.
5. He eventually confesses his crime and is hung.

I'll work on Mauge tomorrow :)

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 15 Oct 16 - 03:43 AM

AH, we're talking at cross purposes here about 2 different songs. What we know over here generally as the Berkshire Tragedy is a version of Child 10, the Two Sisters. Sorry to have added to the confusion.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 16 - 03:53 PM

Richie,
Do you have an ultimate source for the 1744 broadside, or do you have a copy of it?

First of all whilst the facts are very likely true, the fact that the broadside was printed in 1744 need not mean at all that the event occurred in 1744. Having said that it is still possible it did occur then. However, it could easily be based on an earlier printing or a newspaper report.

Also I've been having a closer look at the Pepys 'Bloody Miller' of c1683. It is quite likely that the slight similarities between the 2 ballads are purely co-incidental. In one we have a miller's servant, in the other a miller who himself has a servant. The promise of marriage, pregnancy and murder are common to many ballads. The description of the murders is different. In the first we're not told what he did with the body, in the second he threw her in the river. In the first the nose bleed is the superstition that it proves the murderer's guilt, but in the second is given as the excuse for having blood on his clothes when challenged.

I think the best you can say is that there are a few similarities in the plot. They certainly have no text in common and the likelihood is that one did not influence the other. Both are purported to be based on real events so that is really how we should deal with them until we find evidence to the contrary.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 16 - 04:00 PM

I think Halliwell's papers are either in the BL or National Library of Scotland. Is the tract online?

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 16 - 05:20 PM

Richie,
Thomas Pettitt has already done a detailed study of TBT and had seen several copies of the dated broadside, one printed for Keed in York.
You can access his paper titled Murdered Sweetheart Ballads: The Berkshire Tragedy, at Academia.edu, but I think you have to be a member which I am.

I've seen the reference in Halliwell's 'Fugitive Tracts' which is also online as you must know at Archive.org

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 04:46 PM

Hi Steve,

I do not have a copy of Drummond's 1844 print (for Keed). So please send me a copy. I did find the earlier Scottish version you mentioned and I sent you a link to it : "The tragical ballad of the miller of Whittingham Mill. Or, a warning to all young men and maidens." Glasgow, printed by J. & M. Robertson, 1800. Also in chapbook, "The History, Witty Questions and Answers, of that noted Philosopher, the Miller of Whittingham Mill, and Betty Puslem his wife." Published Edinburgh, 1793.

So now we have the murder location also as Wittenham (Ebsworth) and Whittingham. In the early broadsides the murderer's name is "John" and in the 1844 print it's "John Mauge" so that is consistant.

Tom Pettitt has emailed me back but has not responded to a couple questions but I think he will- I'll try and have him post here also. I have three of his articles on my site and have read another on google books. The first one "Murdered Sweetheart Ballads: The Berkshire Tragedy" has a fairly extensive list- but for example "The tragical ballad of the miller of Whittingham Mill" is missing and- i haven't done the US version yet but a bunch are missing so I'm sure there are a few dozen that will be added.

Anyone else know about a "murther" at Wittenham or Whittingham/ Or know of a mill there circa 1700?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 05:15 PM

Hi,

Correction- that was 1744 print. Halliwell's "Tracts" is also online at google books.

Pettitt has some nice charts at the end of this 2015 article: https://www.academia.edu/16917625/Memory_Print_and_Performance_The_Cruel_Miller_Revisited_

I'm probably going to have to rejoin Ancestry to figure out if John Mauge or Anne Knite are real people. The problem is Mauge could be Mogg or Mange or anything close. Knite could be Knight but she should be easier to find. It doesn't seem possible someone would invent these names.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 05:47 PM

Hi,

This is 47 quatrains and apparently the longest print version:


"The tragical ballad of the miller of Whittingham Mill. Or, a warning to all young men and maidens," Glasgow, printed by J. & M. Robertson, 1800. Also printed in this chapbook: " The History, Witty Questions and Answers, of that noted Philosopher, the Miller of Whittingham Mill, and Betty Puslem his wife." Published Edinburgh, 1793.


The Miller of Whittingham Mill

1 YOUNG men and maidens all give ear,
to what I now relate;
0 mark you well and you shall hear
of my unhappy fate.

2 My tender parents brought me up,
provided for me well;
And in the town of Whittingham,
did place me in a mill.

3 By chance I met an Oxford lass,
I cast a wanton eye;
And promis'd I would marry her,
if she with me would lie.

4 But to the world I do declare,
with sorrow, grief, and woe,
This folly brought us in a snare,
and wrought our overthrow.

5 This damsel came to me and said,
by you I am with child;
I hope dear John you'll many me,
for you have me defil'd.

6 Soon after that her mother came,
as you shall understand.
And often times persuaded me,
to marry out of hand.

7 And thus perplexed ev'ry day
I could no comfort find;
To make away this creature then,
my wicked heart inclin'd.

8 About a mouth since Christmas last,
0 cursed be that day!
The devil then did me persuade,
to take her life away.

9 I call'd her from her sister's house,
ar eight o'clock at night ;
Poor creature fire did little dread,
I bore her any spite.

10 I told her if she'd walk with me,
in the fields a little way,
We both together would agree;
and fix our wedding day.

11 Thus I deluded her along,
unto a private place;
Then pull'd a stick out from the hedge,
and struck her on the face.

12 Then she fell on her bended knees,
and did for mercy cry, ---
For Heaven's sake don't murder me,
I am not fit to die.

13 Yet I on her no pity had,
but wounded her full sore,
Until I that life took away,
which I could ne'er restore

14 With many grievous shriek and groan,
she did resign her breath,
And in this way most barbarous,
I put my love to death.

15 And then I took her by the hair,
to cover the foul sin,
I dragg'd her to a river side
her body threw therein.

16 Thus in the blood of innocence,
my hands were deeply dy'd,
And stained with her purple gore,
who should have been my bride.

17 Then home into my mill I run,
but lorely was amazed,
My man he thought I'd mischief done,
and straugly on me gaz'd.

18 0 what's the matter then he cry'd,
you look as pale as death,
What makes you shake and tremble so,
as tho' you'd lost your breath.

19 How came you by that blood upon,
your trembling hands and clothes,
I quickly then reply'd to him,
by bleeding at my nose.

20 I wislifully upon him looked,
but very little said
And snatch'd the candle from his hand,
and went unto my bed.

21 Where I lay trembling all the night,
For I could take no rest,-—
Thought perfect flames of hell did flash
Within my guilty breast.

22 Next day, the damsel being miss'd,
And no where to be found,
Then I was apprehended soon,
And to th' assizes bound.

23 Her sister did against me swear,
She reason had no doubt,
that I had made away with her,
Because I called her out,

24 But Satan still did me persuade,
I stifly should deny;
Quoth he, there is no witness can
Against thee testify.

25 But when her mother she did cry,
I cunningly did say,
On purpore for to frighten me,
She'd sent the child away.

26 I published in the news-paper.
My wretchedness to blind,
Two guineas any one should have,
That could this damsel find.

27 But heaven had a watchful eye.
And brought it so about,
That tho' I stifly did deny,
This murder should come out.

28 The very day before the assize,
Her body it was found,
Floating before her brother's door,
At Hillsferry town.

29 A second time then I was seiz'd,
To Oxford brought with speed;
And there examined again.
About this bloody deed.

30 The Corner and jury both
Together did agree
That this damsel was murdered,
And made away by me.

31 The Justice then perceiv'd my guilt,
No longer would take bail;
But the next morning I was brought
Away to Ridding jail.

32 When I was brought before the judge,
My man did testify,
That blood upon my hands and deaths
He did that night espy.

33 The justice told the jury then,
The circumstance was plain ;
Look on the pris'ner at the bar,
He has this creature slain.

34 About the murder at the first,
The jury did divide;
But when they brought the verdict in
All of them guilty cry'd

35   The jailor took and bound me strait,
As soon as I was cast;
He carry'd me to prison strong,
And there did lay me fast.

36 With fetters strong then I was bound.
And shin-bolted was I ;
Yet I the murder would nor own
But did it still deny.

37 My father then on me prevails,
My kindred then likewise.
To own the murder, which I did
To them with wat'ry eyes.

38 My father then he did me blame,
Saying my son, O! why
hast thou thus brought thyself to shame
And all thy family?

39 Father, I own the the crime I did,
I guilty am indeed
This cruel act I must confess,
Does make my heart to bleed.

40 The worst of deaths I do deserve,
My crime it is so base;
For I no mercy show'd to her,—-
Most wretched is my case.

41 Young men be warned by my fall,
All filthy lusts defy;
By giving way to wickedness,
Alas ! this day[1] I die ;


42 The ruin of innocence let ne'er,
like mine your study be;
But when that Satan tempts you fore,
from his suggestions flie.

43 Likewise young women all take care,
how you your charms do yield,
By doing so too soon you lose,
your virtue and your shield.

44 When men do tempt you to this guilt,
remember with a sigh,
That horrid and most barbarous crime,
for which I now must die.

45 Lord grant me grace while here I stay,
that I may now repent,
Before I from this wicked world,
most shamefully am sent.

46 Me pardon for the bloody deed,
for which I'm doom'd to death,
And let my tears flow fast therefore,
e'er I resign my breath,

47 O wash my crimson sins away,
which have been manifold.
Have mercy upon me I pray,
and so receive my soul.

FINIS

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 08:49 PM

Hi,

There are 6 mistakes in the above, sorry, and rather than re-post it please see it on my site corrected: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/the-miller-of-whittingham-mill--edin-1793-chapbk.aspx

The Miller of Whittingham Mill has 47 stanzas, 3 more than most standard long broadsides. It is missing stanza 2, and has a different last line of 8. Additionally, it adds 4 unique stanzas near the end:

42 The ruin of innocence let ne'er,
like mine your study be;
But when that Satan tempts you fore,
from his suggestions flie.

43 Likewise young women all take care,
how you your charms do yield,
By doing so too soon you lose,
your virtue and your shield.

44 When men do tempt you to this guilt,
remember with a sigh,
That horrid and most barbarous crime,
for which I now must die.

46 Me pardon for the bloody deed,
for which I'm doom'd to death,
And let my tears flow fast therefore,
e'er I resign my breath.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Oct 16 - 01:22 PM

Hi Richie,
Surely looking for Whittingham/Wittenham is a red herring/waste of effort. The girl is still from Oxford and the place would presumably be near Oxford and has already been identified.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 17 Oct 16 - 03:41 PM

Hi,

Tom Pettitt is in California and said he will contact me when he gets back later this week.

I'm going to try Ancestry.com in a couple days-- I know David Atkinson and Pettitt tried to find the murder without any luck.

If you have a copy of the 1744 broadside please send it to me.

TY

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Oct 16 - 04:55 PM

Richie
I haven't got a copy. I only have the description by Halliwell, but I doubt that it would be any different to the Sympson copy anyway.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 18 Oct 16 - 02:26 PM

Hi,

The Scottish versions are titled "Butcher Boy." Here's one from
The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection - Volume 2, p. 45; No. 200 by Gavin Greig, ‎James Bruce Duncan, ‎Patrick N. Shuldham-Shaw Emily B Lyle; Peter A Hall; Aberdeen U.P., 1983


D. The Butcher Boy- sung by Sam Davidson 1863–1951 of Auchedly, Tarves Aberdeen; the owner of North Seat Farm and well known singer who learned ballads from his farm hands. Collected Gavin Greig.

1. My parents educated me,
Good learning gave to me
They bound me to a master,
A butcher's boy to be.

2 I fell in love with a nice young girl,
Wi' a dark and a rolling eye;
I promised for to marry her
If one night with me she would lie.

3 I've courted this girl for six long months,
For six long months and mair,
Till I became ashamed of myself
To marry such a pretty young girl.

4 The girl being with child to me,
Full sore on me did cry,
"O Billy dear, do marry me,
Or for Your sake I'll die."

5 He's went up to her old mother's house,
'Twixt the hours of eight and nine,
And asked her if she would take a walk
Down by yon running stream.

6. They've walked up and they've walked down
They've walked all around,
Till from his breast he drew a knife,
And stabbed her to the ground.

7 Down on her bended knees she fell,
"Ochon alas," cried she;
"O Billy dear, don't murder me
And leave me here to die."

8 He's ta'en her by the yellow hair,
And dragged her all along,
Till they've come to yon running stream,
Where he's thrown her body in.

9 He's went up to his old mother's house
'Twixt the hours of twelve and one:
But little did this poor woman know
What her only son had done.

10 The question that she put to him,
"What stains your hands and clothes:
The answer that he gave to her
Was, "A bleeding at the nose."

11. He asked her for a handkerchief,
For to roll around his head.
He asked her for a candle,
To let him see to bed,

12. No peace, no rest could that young man find,
No peace, no rest had he,
The flames of hell like a burning torch,
Ascended on his mind.

13. It was in thee month of sweet July,
When the roses were in full bloom,
It's a' for the murdering of sweet Mary Ann
On the gallows ye must hang.

This obviously isn't the ballad "Butcher Boy" only the trade has been changed from miller to butcher. the same occurs in the Scottish travellers Stewart/Robertson/Higgins. The murdered is Willie instead of John and the victim is Mary or Mary Ann.

How old are these versions? Obviously Sam's ballad dates back to 1880s, not sure of the provenance. Any info is welcome,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 16 - 06:32 PM

Peter Buchan was a broadside printer in Peterhead and later Aberdeen.
All of these altered versions come from that area.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 02:59 PM

Hi Steve,

I need some evidence the Peter Buchan printed a version, otherwise it's an interesting theory.

The "Butcher Boy" (similar to Cruel Miller only a butcher boy instead of a miller) is sung by many of the Aberdeenshire travellers including Stanley Robertson, her aunt Jeannie Robertson, Jean Stewart and her daughter Elizabeth (text in Mudcat) -- then Lizzie Higgins - her grandmother etc.

I have 19 versions, there are two that are probably cover songs.

Any other versions?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 09:09 AM

It would be wonderful to have some evidence of what Peter printed, but strangely very little seems to have survived.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 21 Oct 16 - 01:13 AM

Hi,

Here's the first published version from Greig's series of local newspaper articles (no. 137) in Folk-Song of the North-East, dated about August 1910. He comments:

"The folk-singer is fond of tragedy. Ballads of Murder and Execution, in particular, are pretty numerous, although it must be allowed that, as far as our North-Eastern minstrelsy is concerned, they are mainly importations. They have likely enough been introduced through broadsides. 'The Butcher Boy' is well known in our part of the country, judging from the records which we
have got of both words and tune."                     
                              
No informant is named and the second stanza, last line (see below) has been sanitizes from, "If she would with me lie." The stanza where she becomes pregnant has also been sanitized (see stanza 3 below):

4 The girl being with child to me,
Full sore on me did cry,
"O Billy dear, do marry me,
Or for Your sake I'll die[43]."

Otherwise Grieg's published text below represents a standard version of Butcher Boy although it may be a compilation:

   THE BUTCHER BOY.

My parents gave me good learning,
Good learning they gave unto me,
They sent me to a butcher's shop,
A butcher's boy to be.
            
I fell in love with a nice young girl,   
She'd a dark and rolling eye;                  
I promised for to marry her            
In the month of sweet July.   
                  
This fair maid being beguiled by me,
Upon me she did cry,-
O Willie dear, you'll marry me,   
Or else for you I'll die.

I went unto her mother's house,
'Twixt the hours of eight and nine,
And asked if she would take a walk                  
Down by yon running stream.
         
They've walkèd up, and they've walkèd down,
And they've walkèd all along,
Till from his breast he drew a knife,
And stabbed her to the bone.      

She fell upon her bended knees,            
And for mercy she did cry,­   
O Willie dear, don't murder me,
And leave me here to die.

He's ta'en her by the lily white hand,
And dragged her all along,
Until be came to yon running stream,
And he plunged her body in.
                                                   
He went into his mother's house,
"Twixt the hours of twelve and one;
But little did his poor mother think
What her only son had done.
                                                   
The question she did put to him,­
Why blood did stain his clothes?
But the only answer he gave to her,­
'Twas a bleeding at the nose.
                                                   
He asked her for a handkerchief
To roll around his head;
He asked her for a candle
To let him see to bed.
                                                   
No rest nor peace could this young man get,
No rest nor peace could he find;
For he saw the burning flames of hell
Approaching in his mind.
                                                   
The young man's crime it being found out,
The gallows was his doom,                        
For the murdering of sweet Mary Ann,
The flower that was in bloom.   

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 21 Oct 16 - 01:19 AM

BTW thanks to Steve for sending it,

Any other versions?

These are the ones I have on my site:

Butcher's Boy- Kate Mitchell (Aber) c1910 Greig A
Butcher's Boy- A. Fowlie (N.Deer) c1908 Greig B
Butcher's Boy- Cruickshank (N.Deer) c1908 Greig C
Butcher Boy- Sam Davidson (Aber) c1907 Greig D
Butcher's Boy- Annie Shirer (Aber) c1908 Greig E
Butcher Boy- unknown (Aber) c1909 Greig F
Butcher's Boy- Mrs. Willox (Aber) c1908 Greig G
Butcher Boy- Adam Christie (Kinc) 1963 Henderson
Butcher Boy- Jean Stewart (Aber) 1960 Goldstein
Butcher Boy- Jean Robertson (Aber) 1931 Henderson
Butcher's Boy- Will Mathieson(Aber) 1952 Henderson
Butcher Boy- Lizzie Higgins (Aber) 1970 Munro
Butcher Boy- John Argo (Aber) 1952 Henderson
Butcher Boy- Jimmy MacBeath (Ban) 1952 Henderson
Butcher's Boy- Elizabeth Stewart (Aber) c1955
Butcher's Boy- Andrew Robbie (Aber) 1960 Goldstein
Butcher Boy- Stanley Robertson (Aber) 1974 Cooke
Butcher Boy- Enoch Kent (Glas) 1962 REC
Butcher Boy- Charles Fiddes Reid (Aber)1915 Porter
The Butcher Boy- Unknown (Aber) 1910 Greig FSNE

I've been working on the headnotes: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/6-bloody-miller-berkshire-tragedy-wexford-girl.aspx

Some nice woodcuts on there now,

Comments welcome,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 21 Oct 16 - 04:06 PM

"Butcher Boy- Jean Robertson (Aber) 1931 Henderson"

If that's Jeannie Robertson and Hamish Henderson, the 1931 date must be wrong, as Hamish was only born in 1919. It could be 1951. If the date is right it's probably a different Jean Robertson and certainly a different Henderson.

On the main theme of this thread: a ballad maker might well blend an account of a recent murder with some of the story of an earlier one and some fictional embellishment. Thus the 1744 ballad could have been partly based on the 1656 one and the Butcher Boy ballad could have been partly based on the Wytham miller one. So not one original murderer but two or three of them.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Reinhard
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 06:51 AM

The year 1931 seems to be a typo. Richie's website says in Note Ee:
"The Butcher Boy" sung by Jeannie Robertson recorded by Hamish Henderson in 1953. Jeannie Robertson learned this from a woman friend around 25 years previously.

That recording is on the tape SA1953.247 at Tobar an Dulchais.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 10:45 AM

Hi,

Thanks for your replies. The date Jeannie learned the ballad should be 1928 not 1931- ty I'll correct it - that is not the date it was recorded.

I have a question: Why did he wrap a handkerchief around his head in the Butcher Boy versions? He did not suffer an injury and used the nose bleed as an alibi. Just wondering?

Here's a link to listen to Jeanie's excellent version:
http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/play/25352;jsessionid=188816C257A0E249BBC41B53806EFCD5

I can't make out the third line of stanza 7. Anyone?

7. But He took her by her lily-white hand,
And he dragged her to the brim,
And with a knife he . . . ,
And he pushed her body in.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 03:27 PM

Richie
It looks like this stanza has been affected by the many 'Distressed Maid/Lily-white Hand' versions Roud 564.

Again the candle bed stanza has also been affected by 'Rosemary lane' Roud 269. This is where the wrapping the handkerchief comes from.

I'd better add (IMHO)

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 06:35 PM

the third line...

MainlyNorfolk has it as

But he took her by the lily-white hand
And he dragged her to the brim,
And with a mighty boundward push
He pushed her body in.

Jeannie Robertson sings The Butcher Boy
https://mainlynorfolk.info/lloyd/songs/theoxfordtragedy.html

-

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 03:26 PM

Hi,

TY Freddy for the text of her 3rd line that sounds right.

Steve, TY for those possible sources. The handkerchief is important because it is not found in print- so any version with "handkerchief" is most likely traditional. Handkerchief is found in the Scottish versions and in the US versions as well, which means that the Scottish versions may be considerably older than late 1800s.

Does anyone know or have an idea why Wexford Town suddenly appeared in the Cruel Miller versions since it was not in the Berkshire Tragedy?

Since there are very few Irish versions I know of three, is this just a random name or does it refer to Wexford, Ireland?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 04:31 PM

To Irish emigrants in America, a step from 'Oxford' to 'Wexford' isn't very far, especially when sung.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 05:24 PM

Hi,

The oldest Irish version comes from the US as sung by Irish emigrants around 1900, then there are two Irish versions circa 1950s-1970s in UK. The one by Mary Doran (?) -believe it's Oxford Girl (?) I don't have. I have Jim Carroll's version.

So I only know of three Irish versions- Anyone know of more? Apparently there are no Irish broadsides. So Wexford comes from the Cruel Miller broadsides but not from Berkshire. It doesn't seem to be from an Irish source.

If the Scottish handkerchief versions came to the US then they might be circa 1800 which means they could be from a missing Scottish broadside printed around the time of the Cruel Miller. They must be older than the late 1800s. What do you think?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 05:30 PM

Need to add that none of the "handkerchief" versions were printed (as broadsides/chapbooks). Also that the Scottish versions are very consistent-- only 2 of the 20 versions I have are slightly different- one is the Willox version published by Greig in a 1911 newspaper article.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 11:05 PM

Hi,

A recording of Phoebe Smith is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovi8Is675R4

I've got some of it. Can someone fill in the blanks?

Oxford Girl- Sung by Phoebe Smith

I fell in love with a Oxford girl
She had dark and a rolling eyes,
I felt to ashamed to marry her
A-bein' too young a man.

I went alone to her sister's house
About eight o'clock that night,
Asking her if she'd take a walk
Through the fields and meadows gay.

And the answer what she gave to me,
That lay so far away
I caught a-hold of her lily white hand
And I kissed those sweet [ ]

And I had no thoughts of murdering her,
[ ]far away.

I pulled a large stake from the hedge
And then I knocked her down.
And the blood from that poor innocent girl,
Come trinkling from her brow.

Then I took hold of her curly, curly locks
And I dragged through the field
Until I came a deep riverside
I flung that damsel in.

Look how she goes, look how she goes
A-flaoting on the tide (?)
Instead of bein' in a watery grave
She ought to have been my bride

I went alone to my own folks(?) house
About ten o'clock that night,
Asking him for a candle
To light me up to bed.

He asked me and he questioned me,
"What had stained my hands and clothes?"
And the answer I gave back to him,
"I've been bleeding from the nose."

It was about three weeks afterwards
When the pretty fair maid were found,
Come floating down by her own mother's door
[ ]along the town.

TY Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 12:11 AM

Hi,

I listened to it again - at least it's close:

Oxford Girl- Sung by Phoebe Smith of at Woodbridge, Suffolk; recorded by Peter Kennedy, 8 July, 1956.

I fell in love with a[n] Oxford girl,
She had dark and a rolling eyes,
I felt to ashamed to marry her
A-bein' too young a maid.

I went along to her sister's house
About eight o'clock that night,
Asking her if she'd take a walk,
Through the fields and meadows gay.

And the answer what she gave to me,
That lay so far away.

I caught a-hold of her lily white hand
And I kissed those cheek and chin
And I had no thoughts of murdering her,
Nor in no evil way.

I pulled a large stake from the hedge
And then I knocked her down.
And the blood from that poor innocent girl,
Come trink'ling from her brow.

I catched a-hold of her curly, curly locks
And I dragged her through the fields
Until I came a deep riverside
And there I flung her in.

Look out she goes, look out she floats
She's a-floating on the tide
Instead of bein' in a watery grave
She ought to have been my bride

I went along to my own folks house
About ten o'clock that night,
Asking him for a candle
To light me up to bed.

He asked me and he questioned me,
"What had stained my hands and clothes?"
And the answer I gave to him,
"I've been bleeding from the nose."

It was about three weeks afterwards
When the pretty fair maid were found,
Come floating down by her own mother's door,
On, near of Oxford town.

Corrections please,

TY

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 12:32 AM

I have yet another version, The Miller's Boy, by Paul Clayton on Bloody Ballads. It has the prettiest melody for such bloodthirsty lyrics... I love it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 03:02 AM

I've been cheating and typed the verses from the Topic CD's booklet:

Phoebe Smith: The Oxford Girl
Recorded by Peter Kennedy, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 8 July 1956.

I fell in love with a Oxford girl,
She had dark and a-rolling eyes,
And I feeled too shamed to marry her,
Her being too young a maid.

I went along to her sister's house
About eight o'clock that night,
Asking her if she'd take a walk
Through the fields and meadows gay.
And the answer what she gave to me,
That laid so far away.

I caught fast hold of her lily-white hand
And I kissed those cheek and chin,
And I had no thoughts of murdering her
And hid no evil ways.

I pulled the hedgestick all from the hedge
And I gently knocked her down,
And the blood from that poor innocent girl
Come trinkling on the ground.

I caught fast hold of her curly, curly locks
And I dragged her through the field,
Until I came to a deep river side
I gently flung'ed her in.

Look how she go, look how she flows.
She's a-floating by the tide,
And, instead of her having a watery grave,
She ought to've been my bride.

I went alone to my uncle's house
About ten o'clock that night,
Asking him for a candle
To light me up to bed.

He answered me and close-questioned me,
What had stained my hands in blood?
And the answer I gave to him,
"I've been bleeding from the nose."

It was about three weeks afterwards
When that pretty fair maid were found,
Come floating down by her own mother's door,
One near called Oxford town.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 03:28 AM

Richie,
All of these versions are more 'Lily-white Hand/Distressed Maid' than Cruel Miller. Very obvious hybrids.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 03:18 PM

Lyrics to my version posted in this thread, which relates.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 11:12 PM

Hi,

Thanks Reinhard.

Steve, can you post a complete text of one of the 'Lily-white Hand/Distressed Maid' songs and give a couple titles.

TY Mrrzy what is the source of Paul Clayton's text?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 11:33 PM

Hi,

Steve-- is this your Distressed Maid article? (Dungheep): http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/dung19.htm

There's also a similarity with Oxford City / Worcester City / Newport Street / The Cup of Poison /Jealousy [Roud 218]

The question is : Is Cruel Miller older and parts of the Distressed Maid based on Cruel Miller/

What do you think?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 11:48 PM

I don't have the record, I just have always sung the song, sorry!

Interesting other thread, too.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Oct 16 - 09:06 AM

Hi Richie,
Yes, I am Dungbeetle. It's all a reaction to Child's abhorrence of street lit. I was a teacher when I started writing these articles and I thought it prudent to use a pseudonym as some of the earlier articles were somewhat explicit.

If you've looked at the article I assume you have access to plenty of Distressed Maid versions.

Off the top of my head I would say the crossovers are pretty certainly hybrids rather than one evolving into or being influenced by the other. There is nothing to stop a hybrid being a hybrid in print before entering oral tradition. The ballad makers in England occasionally stuck bits of ballads together. The Scottish big ballad editors certainly did it so the tradition no doubt continued in America. It certainly happened in oral tradition on both sides of the pond as we have seen in other instances. Over here travellers are particularly fond of stringing bits of different ballads together.

I would need to have a close look over my study of 'Distressed Maid' to remind myself of the relationships. I do remember this one is also quite old and has been rewritten several times.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 25 Oct 16 - 05:52 PM

Hi,

I knew that was you but I didn't know it was only you (that you wrote all the "Dungbeetle" articles)- very good articles.

As you said-- Smith's version is a hybrid- at least in two places. It borrows from the "Distressed Maid ballads." However one of the places, "I caught fast hold of her lily-white hand/ And I kissed those cheek and chin," is unique to her. The other place, "Look how she go, look how she flows/She's a-floating by the tide," is found in other miller's Apprentice versions.

The burning question is: Why has no English traditional version been collected, been in print or written about (in Notes and Queries etc.) before 1880 (if you can accept Baring-Gould's re-write as traditional --after that it's 1904)?

Richie

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 25 Oct 16 - 09:14 PM

Hi,

I've tried to transcribe this version and can't make out the city [footnote 1] or the next to last line [footnote 2]. There might be a few errors.

Anyone hear it? Here's a link: http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/play/93277;jsessionid=B12F5C417433CA281CFD69A1EA2A0812

The Wexford Girl- sung by Ethel Findlater of Birsay and Harray, Orkney. Recorded by Elizabeth Neilsen, also Alan Bruford. Ethel Findlater learned this song from her mother many years before.

1. Twas in the town of Leebough[1]
Where I was bred and born
And in the town of Wexford
I owned a foundry mill.

2. I courted there a Wexford girl
With a dark and rolling eye,
I asked that girl to marry me
And with me I [she] could lie.

3. I went unto her mother's house
Bein' eight o'clock at night,
I asked my love to take a walk,
A wedding day I'll find.

4. We walked along quite easily
Till we came to meadow's ground,
I pulled a stake from off the fence
And I boldly knocked her down.

5. She fell upon her bended
For mercy she did cry,
"Oh Willie my dear don't kill me here,
For I'm not prepared to die."

6. I heeded not a word she said,
But hit her all the more,
And all about and all around
Lay in the bloody gore.

7. I took her by the yellow knot
And dragged her on the ground.
And through her in the river
That flows through Wexford town.

8. I was taken upon suspicion
And march-ed into jail,
With no one to pity me,
And no one to go my bail.

9. I went into my mother's house
Bein' twelve o'clock at night,
My mother who was sitting up,
Brought in a candle light.

10. "Oh Willie my son what hast thy done,
Such blood on yer hands and clothes."
The answer I thought best to give,
"Was a bleeding at the nose."

11. I asked her for a candle,
To light me off to bed.
I asked her handkerchief
To tie about my head,

12. I tumbled and I tossed about,
No comfort could I find,
The flames of hell surround me,
And she lay close behind.

13. O ye young men O fear my fate,
A warning take by me,
And do not treat the girl you like,
With any cruelty.

14 For if you do you're sure to rue,
Until the day you dee
And when they come for me at last[2],
And hang from the gallows tree.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Richie
Date: 26 Oct 16 - 10:20 AM

Hi,

Findlater's version, learned circa 1914 from her mother is unique and not based on Scottish tradition. It is closer to US versions than the Scotch. Her daughter sings with her on the recording- link above.

The closest I could get to the town name in the first stanza Maryborough but it sounds more like Mayborough,

Anyone?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Oct 16 - 02:40 PM

Nearest I can get is 'Marybone' i.e., Marylebone, pronounced Marlebone. It could of course be Marlborough that was intended, not a million miles from Oxford.

Your burning question I'm not sure I understand. The answer is simple.
Very little material was collected/published in England prior to 1900. Baring Gould only collected in one small area in Devon/Cornwall.
Kidson collected only in Yorkshire and S Scotland and most of that was from friends and correspondents. Likewise Lucy Broadwood was much dependent on friends and correspondents. Not a lot of sweeping fieldwork and many of the songs did not appear until collecting started in earnest after 1900. Very little survives in manuscript form. Very few people were interested until Sharp started publicising.

Regarding the Orkney version, whilst many of the Wexford Girl variants were collected in places of Scottish settlement, Eastern Canada and NE United States, I don't think that's the connection here. Simple logic would suggest the Orkney version came back from the Eastern Seaboard. Orkney men were great sailors and many went to the fishing off Newfoundland and of course went whaling to Baffin Bay.

Subject: RE: Origins: Berkshire Tragedy: Who done it?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Oct 16 - 03:31 PM

I forgot to mention, but I'm sure you're aware anyway, their tune is very much a Dives and Lazarus variant. People here would know it more by such names as Star of the County Down or, Tramps and Hawkers in its major form.