Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?

Subject: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 05:51 AM

I am a huge fan (coming up to 13 stone) of The Pogues. The influence of the Dubliners on them is clear as daylight. Therefore, because of that, I have tried to get into them. Get to the roots, as it were. I've played their Transatlantic anthology CD. I can't stand them. Their relentless chirpiness makes my want to take the disc out my player and hurl it out of the window. Their Oirishness makes them look like a bunch of plastic Paddies. Their excessive nationalism -forever harping on the beauty of their country, constant evoking of folk memories, immodest rattling on about the freindliness of their people-puts them beyond the pale of all decent folk fans.

Am I being unfair?

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 06:41 AM

YES

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 06:44 AM

Are you Canadian?

What vintage of Dubliners are you listening to, please?

What line ups are on offer

Just to try you put things into perspective

Dubliners not really been 'fully' accepted length and breadth of UK

but very acceptable to Irish people all over the World and God bless em they do alot for tourism!!

Ray

Ray

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 06:59 AM

We can't all like the same performers and we wouldn't be expected to.

What always amazes me, is when people say that somebody is crap, when in actual fact they are very good, but are not to that persons taste.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Brakn
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:00 AM

A GUEST calling something plastic?

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:02 AM

The Dubliners are simply the BEST EVER Irish band, they have always had great singers, the late Luke Kelly, Ronnie Drew, the late Ciaron Bourke, Sean Cannon, Jim McCann and Paddy Riley and two of Irelands finest instrumentalists, John Sheahan and Barney McKenna.
They always sing good songs both traditional and modern contemporary, and what great tunes, including the ones composed by John, if you prefer the Pogues shouting at you then get help.

eric

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:14 AM

I'm sorry. The Dubliners are folk music-lite. Folk music for people who cannot take folk music. They are to Ireland what the Corries are to Scotland or the Spinners are to England. And I never said they were crap - just that I canna stand them. Their nationalism nearly tips over into fascism.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:40 AM

Well, everybody is entitled to their opinion and tastes differ, but I would take the Dubliners over the Pogues any day. I do not care for the Pogues and would certainly think that if we are arguing about who is more "folky" then it's got to be the Dubliners. They may have done some "lite" pub stuff but I would harly classify them as "folk music lite". They recorded for many years and have a vast amount of material out there. The Transatlantic Recordings were live and it is a fact that "banter" which may go over well when you're seeing a live show often doesn't do so when when it's recorded and your hear it over and over again. Also, now jaded pub songs like "The Holy Ground" were much fresher and more acceptable years ago than they are now that they've been overdone ad nauseum. No, I wouldn't classify The Dubliners as "Plastic Paddies" by any means.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:54 AM

I enjoy a listen to the Dubliners now and then
I find that they are a hard band to play along to on account of they are such good players themselves.
I also like the pogues and a few of the IRA fund raisers too
I still love to hear my crappy old recording of Sam missiles in the sky(ghost riders in the sky)
Just because you dont agree with me re the dubliners is fine I aint so keen on the Chieftens Me thinks they try a little to hard and I prefer the down to earth good times that the Dubliner always sound as if they are having.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:48 AM

Always tremendous vocal and instrumental skills in the Dubliners, whom I have loved and revered since the 60s.

And many of todays folk artists should listen to their recordings to learn how to accompany a song without the instruments strangling it. I've never heard a Dubliners track where the accompaniment detracted from an understanding of the words: the current fashion seems to be to drown the vocals with buzz-saw fiddle, thrashing bass, and/or loud guitars and banjoes, so you're not sure if the words are in English, Xhosa or Kazakh - or whether it matters at all anyway.

As regards excessive nationalism, are you sure you're not thinking of the Wolfetones? Many (perhaps even most) Dubliners songs were Scottish or English, with a smattering from American, Australian and other sources. The fact that people all over the world now believe that these are Irish songs (Wild Rover, Black Velvet Band) just goes to show what a good job they did on them.

And for relentlessly chirpy, admittedly they didn't do a lot of navel-gazing, wrist-slitting, singer-songwriter pap, but listen to their versions of Raglan Road, Band Played Waltzing Matilda, Joe Hill, etc, etc, etc and tell me how chirpy is that.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: PeteBoom
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:55 AM

The role of the Dubliners and the Clancey Brothers and the Corries and others is notable - not so much for the music they performed (or did not perform) as for the awakening to the possibility of what *can* be performed. Yes, much of their early stuff was common music hall stuff - however - an awfull lot of people were introduced to it by them, with no memory at all of where it came from.

The first couple of waves of traditional musicians and folk musicians from Scotland, Ireland, England, Wales, Cornwall, riding the waves of the American folk-revival by revisiting their own folk and traditional music, set the stage for the mixed trad-folk, who in turn set the stage for the celtic-rock and other forms. I've no idea what's next, but I'm willing to give it a chance...

The list of performers and bands I find myself influenced by is legion. In early Dubliners, I hear a bunch of guys having a beer and a song or two. Whistlebinkies I hear shades of some of the hardcore traditional players fixed on a destination and they are there, thank you very much. Early Chieftains show a mastery of traditional forms, and if you compare what they did early on to what some of their later stuff (like, the Year of the French and later) you can see where they would find the strict tradition limiting to their goal, not defining it. Tannies and Batties and others show the same progression - solid roots with developmental changes influenced by the change in lineup and the avoidance of becoming trapped by other people's expectations.

Tradition is only a generation or two deep. What is traditional now was not traditional 50 years ago - for many, it was revolutionary.

The fact that the Dubliners, no matter the lineup, have hung reasonably close to their original direction and genre is a measure of the importance of the group. They are always new to someone who knows nothing about the roots of the music. While much of what they do is not my personal preference, I recognize it for what it is and tip my cap to them - all of them.

Hmmmmm.... Longest post I've had here in a couple of years.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:56 AM

Snuffy, I was thrashing about trying to figure out how to respond when you captured it exactly. Thanks.

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:59 AM

Snuffy, I am sure you have got it right, I also think that yer man is confusing the Wolfe Tones with the Dubliners.
He`s writing rubbish regarding the Dubliners nationalism, and well, I suppose he can be giving a fools pardon for comparing them with the Pogues.
I have just been listening to Luke Kelly singing Bunclody, sheer class,you would have to be possessed of cloth ears to compare Luke with Shane MacGowan.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: vectis
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:05 AM

You can keep the pogues. After the Woolftones the Dubs are for me followed by The Bards and Barnbrack.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: JohnB
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:08 AM

Time does not lie, for something, someone, a song, a tune a group to be remembered for forty+ years means something. It means it is good. Traditional music, it's still around because it is good.
How many anal singer songwriters will be remembered?
I guess the Pogues may have a small chance, The Dubliners are proof positive.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:12 AM

Problem is with 'Transatlantic anthology' CDs is that they are trying to be everything to everyone! Whoever compiled the track listing is assuming that their tastes are the ones that most people will like. Quite often they are right. The problem is that the majority are going to say it is OK. A small minority will love it and an equal number of people will hate it. When you play the averages game it is what you get.

Trying to decide if you like a band by listening to a compilation is often a mistake. Looking at this particular one I would agree that some of the tracks are what I would class as the worst of Irish. Mind you, some of them are not even Irish:-)

Try listening to some of the earlier albums in full and then decide - You may still not like them but I think you will be quite amazed at how un-commercial some of their stuff is.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,Nfkfiddler
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:36 AM

And, if you've had the good fortune to meet John and/or Barney you'll have found two of the nicest people you could want to meet.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Phil
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:42 AM

John and Barney, Luke, Jim, Ronnie. Have had the pleasure of these guys company on many occasions, never had any edge on them, just straight forward regular guys who made fantastic music for any type of listener......After playing the Fiesta Club in Sheffield for a week, many ,many years ago, the Dubs played one night at the Crucible Theatre [ snooker is on now], When the gang were all on stage Luke addressed the crowd in his usual way, " Last week at the Fiesta it was commercialism, tonight it will be art " What followed next I will never forget, nearly 3, yes 3 hours of Spine tingling music, fast, slow, Jolly, sad, the entire repertoire, they had to be almost pulled off the stage by the Club Management. .........The night will live with me always..... IMHO...... Simply The Best

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Ernest
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:00 PM

Guest Penguinegg: I don`t think taste has anything to do with fairness. I like the albums of both bands, Dubliners and Pogues. Having heard both plus Shane McGowan & the Popes live I think the Dubliner are by far the better musicians.
Pogues live compared to their studio material: the wonders of recording technology...

Maybe you heard the wrong album of the Dubliners. Since there are so many Dubliners compilations, this happens easy. Try "30 years a-greying" and you can hear how versatile the Dubliner are...

And I think the Dubliners and the Pogues/McGowan get along with each other very well...

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:06 PM

Snuffy and Big Phil, agree wholeheartedly.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:15 PM

Try and catch a listen to Ronnie Drew reciting Shane MacGowan's 'The Dunes.' You'll find it on Jah Wobble's CD 'The Celtic Poets.'

Ronnie's voice and Shane's words are poetry as raw and beautiful as you could imagine. An unexpected showcase to them both. I love them both for different reasons and suspect in years to come Ronnie's voice and Shane's words will both live on.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Tim
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:43 PM

There a band called the Hellfire Club, comprising Ronnie Drew, Eamonnon Campbell of the Dubliners and Philip Chevron, Terry Woods of the Pogues. With the latter two in their lineup, nobody should question the musical standard of the Pogues. Woods was a member of Sweeney's Men and a founder member of Steeleye Span, not bad going. Chevron was a founder and leading light in the Radiators from Space, Ireland's first and best punk band, later he wrote "Thousands are Sailing" and "Faithful Departed", which is coming up on Christy Moore's latest release, not bad going either.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:48 PM

I've always thought of the Dubliners as a bit pop, or easy listening, though they also do some good songs in amongst the more banal of their offerings. I'm sure as some have said that they are all nice blokes, but I have to agree with Penguin Egg.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 02:55 PM

Not me ... Admittedly, I haven't listened to everything the Dubliners have recorded; maybe I haven't listened to that much of their complete body of work, but I can't believe that Penguin Egg is talking about the same band with which I'm somewhat familiar. Maybe Penguin Egg is a much harder case than me, but where he apparently hears "relentless chirpiness", I hear some guys who've been through some hard living having a good time on a Saturday night.

This has to be the first time I've heard the Dubliners accused of being pop or easy listening. Someone help me out here - what gives?

And how anyone can like the Pogues and not like the Dubliners is beyond me - the Dubliners were clearly a major influence, which is presumably why the two outfits did some recording together.

Boys, it's a strange world, ain't it?

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Den
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:19 PM

Ronnie Drew chirpy????? C'mere to me bouy.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:29 PM

I'm afraid I don't understand some of the comments either, maybe it's an age thing. I was their first road manager in the mid sixties and spent some hilarious nights in the hotel after the show(s). There were only ourselves, i.e. the Dubliners and me and each one of the lads would take turns to go out of the room and come back in as another member of the group! That's where the famous 'octopus' routine began, Ciaron blowing the tin whistle, John fingering it while Ciaron strummed the guitar and Ronnie put the chords to it ... you get the picture. All this was for their own pleasure as their was no audience if you don't count me. They had a vast repertoir of songs from all over the world and their instrumentation was tremendous .. John' fiddle playing, Barney and Luke on Banjos, Ciaron in tin whistle and Ronnie ... well Ronnie is utterly unique. As to the suggestion of nationalism/fascism, Luke was a card carrying communist and nothing resembling either factions would be tolerated. A great bunch of musicians and fellows, I am proud to have known them. I looked after Ciaron after he had his operation and was constantly amazed at his sense of humour. At one stage, just after the operation, we visited him in hospital. Luke asked him 'How's the headache?'. 'She's walking in the garden,'he replied!

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: skarpi
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:44 PM

Amen eric, John as fiddle player and composer, flower of normandy,
marino at casino , what a great tunes.
The other ones Barney on the banjo, Ronnie his own solo cd ´s
are great I wish I can see them in Ireland in the autumn.

All thebest Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: The Badger
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:50 PM

Dear Penguin Egg, you say you are a fan of the Pogues - therefore all they do is great by you. Very pop!
No band or musician or composer should be worshipped for themselves. Listen to the music,songs - some you will like some you will not. Enjoy those you like - miss out those you don't - but hatch into a real penguin and realise that no band/person can continously be perfect. Many thousands of people find great enjoyment in the music of the Dubliners, perhaps the fault is in you - go back to your world of pop music, where you will be told what you should enjoy, until you learn discernment.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 01:07 AM

Jim - Thanks for the anecdotes - always good to hear from people who were there!

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:34 AM

Good story Jim, here's another one, on my way to see the Dubliners at Halifax Civic Theatre, I guess sometime in the 1970s my girlfriend and I called for a pint at a well known town centre pub and bumped into the music correspondent of our local paper John Mitchel and sat talking to him, a few minutes later in walked Luke Kelly, Luke knew John and came over to talk, John asked Luke how he found this particular pub and Luke replied
that he got in a taxi at Halifax railway station and told the driver to take him to the pub where all the people who are not quite right go.

A beautiful man, much missed, eric

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:45 AM

Another story. I flew up to Scotland with them to do a concert for the Upper Clyde sit in (1971?). The 'plane started to roll a bit due to turbulence and Ronnie, who was sitting beside me, got up to sit beside Barney. 'Why are you doing that?' I asked him. 'Because Barney's the only one of us who knows the Act of Contrition!' he said.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 05:29 AM

I recall being at Cambridge FF in 69 , I think , and Nigel Denver was
'doing his thing' outside the beer tent , to an audience of seventy or eighty folk , when the Dubs arrived (back from a session in a pub , I believe) .Ronnie shouted to Nigel "Give us a thrash at that guitar!" , and then they did about a half hour of GREAT songs .
Good lads all !!

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Den
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 09:53 AM

Some great stories here. On their 25th anniversary show which was televised live on the Gaye Byrne show there were also some great stories and guests, anyone see it? At one point Gaye asked them, "what's with the beards?" Ronnie says, "when I joined the band I had a beard and Barney grew a beard and I think Ciaran was born with a beard."

Another funny story concerned themselves and the Furey's which Finbar recounted with an amazing Ronnie impression. He said that they were all travelling to a concert in Germany, the Furey's, the Dubliners and Stockton's Wing. Anyway they all met up in the bar and missed the first two flights from over gargling. When they eventually got on board the plane and were in the air they encountered some turbulence. Finbar said he was glad to be sitting by Ronnie because he would have a soft landing. Anyway everyone was freaking out because of the bumpy ride and Luke turned to them and said, "listen lads when its your time its your time and there's nothing you can do about it." This seemed to settle everyone until Barney enquired, "but what if its the pilot's time?" Great stuff from legends of their time. If you ever get a chance to pick this show up on video or DVD its worth every penny. IMO.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:44 AM

Just two quick comments.

Jim McLean and others, I am very grateful for this glimpse into the lads, and into Irish sensibilities. I have laughed and chuckled my way through all of this. Please do not stop.

Second, this thread is what Mudcat has always been about. It could have gone nasty and instead, due to the good intent of the posters, it has entered that wonderful zone the Mudcat has always been known for. I wish those that are populating those other threads would take a look and learn.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Phil
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 12:14 PM

Well then, here is another tale, when the Dubs were doing the club circuits in the late 70's they did a full week at the Fiesta club in Sheffield, my wife and I had got to know them by this time, so we duly presented our selves back stage after the show...Barney asked how many times we would be seeing them that week, we ARE fans, we said, every night and Saturday as well. Barney went into deep,deep thought, every night you come, says he, tell the doorman you are my cousin, and to come to the dressing room and fetch me...Next evening got to the door, says I to the guy stood there, please will wou contact Barney and tell him his cousin is here, five minutes later, here comes Barney, with an Ey up cousin in a broad yorkshire accent, tinged with Irish. He did this for the rest of the week and Saturday night as well, a full week of seeing the Dubs for nowt, what a guy, what a banjo player, like I said, no edge, just one of the lads

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 01:24 PM

Some interesting comments and lots of anecdotes, which is the last thing I was expecting. Guest Badger, The Pogues were not pop - they were folk rock, like a punk Fairport Convention. I don't hate the Dubliners, just don't rate them that high, but their influence on the Pogues is obvious, as I said in my opening post.

I'm always happy to be proven wrong. Can someone recommend a Dubliners' CD that will change my mind.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Den
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 01:57 PM

Can I take it Penguin that you are a youngish person, say under the age of 35. Do you think that it is possible that you just don't understand the Dubliners? They are an institution. An album I'd recommend is "More of the Hard Stuff." The Pogues without Shane MacGowan were a pop band. And even though the influence of the Dubs on the Pogues was heavy they were never going to sound remotely alike.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Effsee
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 02:11 PM

Penguin, perhaps you have a wrong impression from the CD you have listened to. Those recordings from the '60s were very much "of their time". You had to be there to understand the initial impact! I remember an album from the early '70s, "Revolution" if memory serves, which was anything but "Lite" another "At Home" had good stuff on it as well. The availability of these may well be impossible. There was an album "15 years on", A double CD "25 years Celebration", "The Dubliner's Dublin" is also a superb album of purely Dublin songs. They've been going for over 40 years so I wouldn't be surprised if there was land mark album for 40 up.Happy hunting and good luck to you.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 02:38 PM

John Revie used to tell a great story, which he reckoned he witnessed, where some young Irish upstart walked up to Barney and announced himself as a far superior banjo player. Barney simply held out his hand and said "Hello,Champ"

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 02:45 PM

Sorry, I was theabove guest minus cookie

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:11 PM

I never play my Dubliners' LPs anymore, for my taste has changed, but even two decades back I didn't play them often but I saw them each time I could. The Dubliners are a band that is far better to listen to at a life concert than on a recording.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:21 PM

I'm not sure how many Dubliners LPs have been re-issued on CD, but I've had pretty good luck tracking down the original vinyl on ebay. I don't have a problem with compilation CDs, but the LPs usually are very well put together, with a lot of thought given to the flow from track to track. If the LPs were reissued on vinyl with original track listings and liner notes, I would probably buy them new.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:13 PM

Hi Penguin,

I'd suggest you avoid compilation CDs of any stripe. They usually are meant to appeal to the broadest bunch of people. That usually means nothing offensive to anyone and favorites everyone has heard to death.

My intro to the Dubs was in 1971 with "More of the Hard Stuff" as it was released her in the states. This was amazing stuff form me. I was used to The Clancy's, four voices and a guitar and a banjo. Now here was a band with 900 instruments and Luke Kelly and Ronnie Drew. Is there a voice anywhere like Ronnie Drew? I had never heard banjo like Barney McKenna before. And after reading some liner notes of The Corries I learned that Barney was a banjo legend in 1964 already.

I've learned over time that how ground breaking a band is usually depends on time and place. Who was better? The Clancys or the Rovers? The Dubs or The Planxty, The Fureys or The Pogues? Does it matter? It's like the fastest gun, some one is always faster. I'll bet I liked everyone of theose bands for the same reasons someone else doesn't. But their influence on modern and popular Irish Music is undeniable. Many people would never have discovered Irish music without them.

Me personally, outside of the song writing I am continually puzzled by The Pogues. I swear that most United Statesians think Irish music is great musical virtuosity and utterly incomprehensable singing.

Oh well.

Nice to meet you, stick around.

Don

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: skarpi
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:40 PM

Where can I get a dubliner concert program for the year 2006 ?

all the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: skarpi
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:59 PM

found it
all the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 06:19 PM

Wolfgang, I agree about live performances usually being better than recorded ones and Nigel Denver is a particular example. I have written a few LPs for Nigel (as well as songs for the Dubliners) but Nigel live is very hard ro beat. Last year Nigel, myself and Pat Cooksey had a great time in Rothenburg ob der Tauber, in Pfingsten, and a marvellous time was had by all. (and we're doing it again this year).

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: The Badger
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 08:13 PM

GUEST Penguin egg, the Pogues were packaged and sold as pop - very successfully - not punk Fairport -what a ridiculous idea, it will be clasical Sex Pistols next.

Non Guest Badger

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Big Tim
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:27 AM

Re the "incomprehensible singing" of Shane MacGowan, for me the answer is that I'm smitten by the overall sound and therefore motivated to find the lyrics, which is easy. After you get them, you wonder why you didn't do so in the first place. "Bottle of Smoke" is a classic example. Re the age thing Jim, my mother loved the Pogues until the day she died, aged 82!

However, the first 3 albums were brilliant but the last was in 1988. They've done little of import since and have been living on past glories for too long.

(I love the Dubs too, got practically everything they have ever recorded).

(I wonder if the Pogues took their name from the "Pogue Mahone" line in "Monto" as sung by the Dubs)?

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:51 AM

Here's another ' Barney ism ' someone, Fin Furey I think, was getting a lift from Barney and told for f****s sake slow down, to which Barney replied " if you think this is bad driving, you should be with me when I'm on my own "

eric

Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal?
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 05:00 AM

I've always liked the Dubliners since their 1960s heyday. If I hear those original Transatlantic tracks, they can transport me to the back room in O'Donoghue's like no other band can. They exude Irishness, or Dublin-ness (or maybe Guin-ness?) anyway, and the combination of Luke Kelly's soaring tenor and Ronnie Drew's unique gritty vocals with Barney and John's instrumental artistry is unbeatable for its day.

But you probably had to be there at the time. Many tracks they recorded then have become hackneyed and I can understand someone new to them perhaps wondering what the fuss was about. Their influence on the British and Irish folk scene is undeniable, and the Pogues are just one example (I happen to like them too btw). As for the nationalistic issue, things were different back then before Bloody Sunday, and it was OK to sing Off to Dublin in the Green, A Nation Once Again, etc. in English folk clubs, where everyone would join in. The anti-English stance was rather tongue in cheek and perceived more in historical perspective at that time, referring back more to the Easter Rising rather than more recent events. (However I don't want to get into a debate about the Troubles, please, as I don't claim to be an expert - this is just my perspective as a lover of Irish folk music since the 1960s.)

As others have said, some of the many cheap compilation CDs available have been poorly put together from live sets, with introductions chopped out, set sequences altered and poorly considered choices. Over the years they've recorded a vast amount of material and apart from the aforementioned cheap compilations, most if not all of the albums are worth a listen - I can almost guarantee there will be something you'll like on any of them (I say almost because there's always the exception that proves the rule).

Sorry if I'm repeating things others have already said above, but I just wanted to add my 2p's worth.