BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue

Subject: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Mudshark1
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 06:38 PM

If you are like me,I hope to communicate with you.As musicians we are extremely sensitive and found my wife of three years not the same woman I married!I probably will be bailing out soon because I have tried everything to bring life into the marriage, I'm one who is extremely affectioate and loving where my wife could care less.The one thing we can't do is let the marriage affect our music. I am a music teacher who is dedicated to my profession . Also I am a performer as well.I am 49 years old,make decent buckaroos and really think I would need to meet someone who carries those same vibes artists carry. She hasn't got a clue.She even told me to split and that her girls have the edge over me.If anyone out there wants to talk to me or even vent feel free.. All The Best,Mudshark

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 07:36 PM

Just know you are not alone. It happenes to the worst of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Rory B
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 08:06 PM

oh gosh!

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 08:07 PM

If you're trolling for chicks, Mudshark, you might want to think about changing your screen name. Some ladies might find it a bit intimidating. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Rory B
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 08:08 PM

Double gosh!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Mid Life Crisis
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 09:02 PM

I can empathize.
I'm going through my own personal rut and have been dealing with it for about 5 years now. Male mid life crisis? I dunno. Maybe paritially. Seems like as soon as I turned 40 my body started sending me little signals of various things that no doubt will start to really plague me later on in life and one of which will ultimately kill me. The libido is shot. I see a nice looking woman and in one half of me brain I think, yeah I'd like to jump her bones, and with the other half think, why bother? too much hassle and then she'll want a relationship. I've been feeling like I'm dead inside for a long time. The only thing that keeps me going is playing music. I have many male friends of a similar age to me, who woke up one day and said life's too short, I'm miserable, my marriage sucks, and I'm tired of feeling dead inside. So they walked. They support their families and have new younger girlfriends. Their libidos are better than ever and they feel alive again on the inside and the outside and they don't regret the decision. I personally think it takes a very high degree of total selfishness (self preservation?) to walk (especially when there are children involved) and a lot of balls as well. But I can understand the reasons for doing it. In most of their cases the spark and the love was gone from the marriage. They were taken completely for granted, or made to feel inadequate, unloved, miserable and useless. I cannot bring myself to leave. I figure either way I'm fucked. If I stay in the marriage, I remain dead inside where my mood fluctuates between deep depression to a feeling of powerlessness. You reach a point where you become joyless and nothing gives you any satisfaction including personal achievements, your children, whatever. (Clinical depression symptoms?) And if I leave the marriage, I can never have a moments peace of mind in the solitude of a new apartment, because I'd be plagued with feelings of guilt for having walked out on my family. I'd be made to feel like an outcast by my inlaws, wife and children, and utterly humiliated. I don't wanna see a shrink because I like clinging to my own self pity. There's a certain morose comfort in it that I cannot describe that feels comfortable, familiar and reassuring in a very demented and dark way.

I think if you can walk Mudshark1 and do it with peace of mind, and still look after your obligations to your wife and family, and in the long run be happier and feel it was the right thing to do, more power to you. Me? I'm almost tempted to commit a crime that would give me a sentence of 10 years of solitary confinement just for the private space and being left the fuck alone and devoid of all responsiblity. But I won't because then I'd be even more depressed about causing harm to some innocent victim. This male mid life crisis thing just sucks. The only time I feel productive is when I change the strings on a guitar.

Thanks for allowing the rant. I've wanted to get this off my chest for a long time, and the cloak of anonymity afforded by not using my member name, has made it possible. For that I am grateful as there is no one I am comfortable discussing this with in my real 3D life. Hopefully this fog will eventually lift, and the sun will shine again.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: marty D
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 10:15 PM

I've been there as probably a lot of us have. For Gawd's sake don't stay in a bad marriage. We only live once, and if you stick it out another year, that's one less year you have to find that special someone who will really value you. Same for your partner. Whatever you do, don't use the kids as an excuse for staying either. It's not great for them, but they'll know quite a few other kids in the same boat. There's no shame in divorce anymore, because although we may not be smarter than our 'stick it out til the bitter end' parents, modern society has made us far more complex. To find a partner who plays your music is divine.

marty

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 11:02 PM

Guest MLC; methinks a lot of us here know all too well that of which you speak.

Being in no position to credably advise, allow me to at least share this reflection;

I rather wish that you were not so reluctant to seek competent clinical evaluation and treatment; I'm no big fan of "Psychotherapy", and can't say that "Counselling" has done us much good... but there are a number of very effective medications out there that can (and for a lot of people do) make a really significant difference. And watch out for your health; depression can raise hell with the immune system, and disrupt sleep cycles to the point that functioning on the job is compromised. Depending on what you do, this can lead not only to unemployment but can be a major safety issue to self, co-workers, and sometimes even innocent bystanders.

It seems that your music is about the only thread, currently, that keeps you connected to life, such as it is. We can relate.

Should you ever get the feeling that you are the only poor shmuck who's ever been flushed down this hole, let me (and I think I'd be safe in assuming "us" here) assure you;

You ain't.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 11:29 PM

MLC, you asked: "clinical depression symptoms?" Absolutely, and good for you for recognizing it. As Uncle Jacques indicated above, much of this is due to plain old chemistry--changes in neurotransmitter levels in the brain--and can be helped with chemistry as well. If you don't want to see a psychiatrist or psychologist, then go to a COMPETENT family doctor or internist. Check with your county medical society or local hospital if you don't know one. But go.

Caution: if you find yourself having thoughts about ending your life, don't wait for a doctor's appointment, but look in the phone book NOW for the number of your local crisis line, and call. Now. Even if you think it's embarrassing or foolish. Or at least call a friend you trust. Depression can be a fatal disease, and it's treatable.

Don't even try to figure out what to do about your marriage until you get yourself back in working order. Even if you are absolutely certain you're not depressed, and you don't need to see a doctor...give yourself the benefit of the doubt and go anyway. People who are in the middle of a state like this don't always have the best judgement about their own situation. The fact that you posted this message is a good sign that you don't like where you are and want to make it better--stay with that.

This happens to lots of people, and there are many people out there who can help. Send me a personal message if you have more questions or just want to talk more.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 11:37 PM

There was once an old timey fiddler and his wife who, at age 98, went before the judge to get a divorce. The judge asked them why, at this late date, they were splitting up!? The couple told him, "Once we were very much in love. But those feelings left us long ago. We stayed together for the sake of the kids, but now that they're all dead..."

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Janie
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 12:16 AM

MLC,

I strongly second Mark's advice---all of it.

Please take care of yourself.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: DougR
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 12:21 AM

Anybody have, or know anyone who has, a perfect marriage?

I was married 49 years, and though I never knew anyone else I'd like to be married to, ours was not prefect.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Guest LostinAmerica
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 12:25 AM

Mudshark1 and GuestMLC, no you're not alone. I'm one of those guys keeping it together for the sake of my 7-year-old son. The wife and I stopped having sex shortly after our son's arrival. Things were wrong for a long time before that. My wife has for a long time shown nothing but contempt for me. I once summed up our problems as this: She likes nothing about me and the only thing I dislike about her is the fact that she doesn't like me. We both do well in all other aspects of our lives. We have friends (she has hers and I have mine), we are each well-liked at our jobs. We like each other's families. We just don't like each other. I once heard marriage called "the minimum of privacy and the maximum of loneliness." That pretty much sums it up. I'm glad I had some good relationships years ago. That way I know what can be. I don't drink to excess, don't do drugs, don't gamble, don't have affairs. My son is my foremost priority. Why did we marry? We each thought the other would "change." I can't bear to leave my son, and I can't stand to put him through the whole divorce/custody thing. I'm not looking for an answer. There is none. Just wanted to let you know there are others "out there."

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 10:34 AM

Ask yourself this question. What is the payoff here? What am I getting that I cant do without. There must be something.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Dharmabum
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 01:10 PM

Marriage is like a three ring circus,
You have your engagement ring,
You have your wedding ring,
And then you have your SUFFER RING!

Try to laugh once in a while. It helped me through a rough marriage & it's ultimate demise.

DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM

When my wife and I were married, at age thirty-three, she asked if I'd love her forever.

"Well, 'forever' is a long time, and personalities change. Tell you what: I'll put you on probation. You've got seventy years to prove yourself; if you're still okay at the end of that time, I'll keep you forever; if not, out you go!"

I have to say, she'd been doing so well for the last thirty-seven years that I recently canceled the probation and gave her that "forever" commitment. Big of me, eh?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Stev
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM

Try to maintain some perspective boys. Go help someone in need and don't forget to pray. This is what I've learned working 20 years in the ER. Keep pickin, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 12:04 AM

What boggles my mind is this....
If you have a bad marriage and you decide it is best not to leave, why don't you go for marriage counseling?
From my experience (it appears) that some men are reluctant to go for marriage counseling. Why? I don't get it. You decide to stay in a miserable marriage yet decide not to work on making it a better marriage. Doesn't make much sense to me. This is your life.

Little Neo who is puzzled

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 12:17 AM

Yes Little Neophyte ... you are quite correct in your observations ... there are some men who would risk losing all that they have rather than go to counselling ... they would rather make the same mistakes with someone new, rather than do the nessessary work to save a marriage. Please note ... I said "some" men ... and 'some' women too, I might add.

LL

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:49 PM

Why? because it is easier to lay blame than to work on the problem. I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to fix a marriage that just wasn't meant to be.

Some years ago, a game warden found a car off the road, down over a steep bank. Inside was a skeleton, and without opening the door, he knew it was a man. Poor bastard just would not ask directions.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,yeah, me too
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 07:27 PM

25 year marriage.
Took me almost 20 of 'em to figure out she was (probably clinically) frigid. Like some women must assume, she thought I'd be satisfied with her willingness to "service me". Yeah, that's enjoyable. You lay there and take it babe, while I do the most embarrassing act a human can do (at least when you're the only one lost in the rapture of it).

All the unspoken agreements arrived at to keep peace. They finally stack one on top of the other until they finally break the plane of rational behavior and neither of you even notices anymore.

And yes, I'll continue to live with it and wait for a miracle.

I don't want a counsellor---I want an arbitrator.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,LostinAmerica
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 08:06 PM

tried for years to get her to a marriage counselor...she always said she didn't want some "stranger" to know our business...now, like guestY,M,T, I don't want a counselor 'cause I don't want to fix it...just want to hang on 'til I can get out without losing my son...

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 08:48 PM

Well.......I must admit I sure rather be single than in a relationship wishing I was.

Miss Bonnie who does understand. I really do feel for you guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Tom French
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 10:21 PM

My former wife walked at 45. To a certain degree, she was pissed that I was happy. It was tough on me, but it taught me an important point. Being happy is something you have within you. It doesn't depend on a spouse. Whatever you are you take with you into the next relationship or non-relationship. I overcame much for 23 years, but I learned that you really can't help them with love or anything else that they might need. If they can't find it themselves, no one is going to fulfill them. If you're happy, you really have the strength to do what is best for the family; maybe you'll hit 23 years too. I recall Stan Rogers song "45 Years"; that person made it 23 years too. Used to sing it to try and understand what was happening to me. Since the divorce I have even become good friends with my x for the sake of our two kids and also because I really don't have enough of what it takes to hold a grudge and ruin myself with grudging. I am very happily remarried, but then I never stopped being happy, once I made it through the break-up. My x continues about the same, still looking for happiness. If you have kids, you'll find that they are more important than yourself. I really think both spouses, if they are still sane should knock themselves out to keep the family together; it is worth any amount of effort.
Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: LR Mole
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 01:59 PM

I think, myself, that EVERYBODY'S more important than I am. I just try to stay out of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:12 PM

Pobrecito, Mole.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:12 PM

Mole, get a copy of the Anneagram and look up number 9.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 01:36 PM

I have been married five times, and I have learned that marriage is a great institution, for some people. Doesn't usually work out for musicians, though. for one thing, music takes a lot of the energy and attention that most people put in a relationship, and musicians and performers need more attention than one person can give, any way. When it comes down to it, the musician puts the music first-which is bad on the relationship, and if they can't put the music first, they get bitter, which is worse on the relationship.

Another thing is that with a piece of music, you can always work problems out, but with relationships, you don't have that kind of control, and with music, once it is worked out, it is always good--

To a degree, I feel bad about the bad marriages--because at the beginning of each one, I am sure that I put a lot of energy into the relationship that I put into the music toward the end. I am sure that, at the end, each one felt like I was not the person that they married. On the other hand, people, women especially, project a lot of stuff onto performers-when the person is turns out to be just a person, they are disappointed-

Some people are best when they are alone--the thing is that you don't learn that about yourself til twenty or so years after the time you are old enough to get married--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,CarolC (unable to set my cookie)
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 06:06 PM

On the other hand, people, women especially, project a lot of stuff onto performers-when the person is turns out to be just a person, they are disappointed

--GUEST,Fiver

Men do it as often as women. It's something that a lot of people of both genders do, and not just to performers. A lot of people look to others to provide something that is missing within themselves. Sometimes they project their needs onto larger-than-life figures, and sometimes they project them onto people they meet in their daily lives.

It starts out with the person in question being put up on a pedestal, which can be kind of nice in the beginning. But it's hard to be human up on a pedestal. And when one's humanity shows, one gets knocked down off of the pedestal, which isn't much fun, and leads to a lot of bad feelings on both sides.

I guess the answer, and not an easy thing to do, is what was expressed by Tom French up above. Peope have to be able to find happiness within themselves. If we look to others to provide us with our happiness, we will ultimately be disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 08:39 PM

Playing music makes me happy, it always has--I like good food, too, and have a passing fondness for a bit of the bubbly from time to time--I enjoy them company of people who are enjoying themselves, but so many people are so obsessed with their own "issues" these days, that opportunities are few--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,CarolC (without cookie)
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:11 PM

I forgot to mention the flip side of the equation in my last post...

It's really easy for some of us to fall into the trap of needing to be the source of someone else's happiness. Which may make us feel good for a while, but it's a hell of a responsibility, and it creates unrealistic expectations that eventually cause a lot of bad feelings for both people.

It's a complicated little dance sometimes, this business of being human.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: DougR
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:13 PM

GUEST, yeah, me to" "While I do the most embarrassing act a human can do." And that would be?

I can't imagine what kind of act of love one person might do to another that would be embarrassing.

I still believe that anyone that expects to have a perfect marriage, or a perfect relationship is going to be disappointed. It takes two to tango, and the one that is unhappy should ask him/herself, is it conceivable that I, myself, am not the perfect partner, and I might be the key to making this relationship work? Sign me old fashioned, I guess, but when one enters a serious relationship, one has to assume certain obligations, and one of them is committing to preserving the relationship. If you are satisfied that you have done everything YOU can do to make it work, and it still doesn't, then get out of it.

One never realizes until it is gone, I think, how much is lost when even a relatively good relationship is over. My thinking anyway.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:39 PM

Carol C you are wise beyond your years. Doug, for once I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,CarolC (no cookies)
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:52 PM

Either that, or I've been around the block a few times. (*BG*)

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:36 AM

I think CarolC must be fairly special, since she managed to get Kendall and DougR to agree on something--and she can play the accordion, too--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: DougR
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 01:40 PM

I'm in shock! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 08:01 PM

I'm on life support! Seriously, Doug and I have agreed on other things, he said Dick Armey is an ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 08:04 PM

I've been down the road a few times too Carol C, and, I would not hesitate to go again. I'd rather feel pain than to feel nothing at all. Old Maine proverb, "You have to get out on the limb, that's where the fruit is."

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 07:25 AM

Have an affair, have several affairs But make sure the person you have the affair with is well and truly tied to their SO and understands your reasons This way you can enjoy yourself without risk and without hurting your partner Its worked for me for 16 years, my husband doesn't know. Music is a great way to hide an affair as you tend to go out a lot and there are no questions asked. Just be careful to choose the right people and I believe it helps you to tolerate family problems and the mundane chores of family life. Most important of all it makes you a happier person to live with

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 09:10 AM

Guest Guest, Thank God I'm not married to you! How do you sleep nights?

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 09:37 AM

From the outside looking in...

I was once a young man's supervisor. He sat with me in the office one day and poured his heart out. Seemed he'd had one of those one-night affairs while his wife had been out of town, and he felt horrible about it. He asked what he should do. He talked, cried, talked some more, and finally answered his own question. He could not NOT tell her, To hell with the possibility she might throw him out of the house - he couldn't stand the thought of a lie remaining between them. She got very, VERY pissed off, but they were still together 15 years later, and still in love.

They had known each other since childhood, and were best friends before they were married. I think the pedestal, the blindness of being in love, gets in the way, and if you don't start out as friends, or find a way to become friends after the honeymoon phase wears off, you're in trouble. I think sometimes people come out of that phase, and find they don't like the person they married very much.

I never found a guy I could love both romantically and as a friend - it's always been one or the other. I don't think it's a very easy thing to do, but the combination is what makes marriages that last, and are happy. There are two whole and separate people, who trust one another and choose to share their lives. Wish we could all find that sort of love.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: balladeer
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 10:08 AM

Wow! So much sorrow on this thread. The hardest thing about being married,I find,is to avoid blaming my partner for the things that make me unhappy. He lives here, it must be his fault. If I lived alone, I would be forced to first look inside myself for the roots of my turmoil and despair, but because he stands so close to me, it is just so much easier to shine the spotlight on his inadequacies rather than my own. God bless, everyone! Balladeer

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 10:53 AM

A marriage is a lot like playing music--it forces you to confront your weakesses and limitations on a moment to moment basis--if you confront your own weakness and deal with them, you can make it work, but only if your partner is doing the same thing--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: DougR
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM

I genuinely fear for my mental health. I agree, AGAIN, with Kendall.

GUEST GUEST, at some point I have to believe that your extramarital relationship is going to affect your married life. It's amazing after fourteen years that it hasn't already. A one-night stand like the one Jeri describes is one thing, but a fourteen year relationship with the same person is another. Just having to "cover up" the other relationship is a terrible burden, I would think. And it is difficult for me to believe that your spouse doesn't know, or suspect something by now.

I think before one takes Guest Guest's advice he or she should ask themselves, 'If I lose my marriage over this other relationship, will it be worth it?' Another question: 'How would I feel if I found out that my spouse is having an affair with someone?'

Sorry if I sound preachy, but I'm one who really believes in trying to make a marriage work, and I think it takes two to do that. If it simply can't work ...get out of it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 11:47 AM

I missed your post before, GUEST GUEST, but I wonder if you ever thought about why your husband isn't responding to the fact that you have been carrying on for all these years? Don't kid yourself, on some level, he does know--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM

Don't get me wrong guys. I am best of friends with my husband. It's just the mundane domestic side that gets you down. He's not interested much in me as a woman and never really has been. We got hitched because we have a great friendship..... so maybe he does have an idea but chooses not to worry about it. It's not affecting our friendship and it is wonderful to have someone to be romantic with. Every time we meet it is like starting over. My lover is in a similar situation. Neither of us would wish to leave our homes and realise that if we did we would probably just end up in another stagnant marriage. An affair isn't a marriage substitute it's an addition!

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Trevor
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:32 AM

I've always thought that one tolerates a situation because it isn't intolerable. When it is, you do something about it. So one needs to figure out where, on the continuum of ecstacy - total, complete and absolute misery one is situated 'cos that can at least tell you how prepared one should be for the inevitable aggro that comes with the ending of a relationship, no matter how horrible it has become.

The other thing that has become apparent to me (two divorces and a couple of, what I considered to be important, relationships) is that if a relationship is based on need, rather than want, ('how am I going to survive without a partner/my kids around me/security' and so on) then it is flawed. Get away from being reliant on other people for your happiness and explore your own resources - that means that you can take full responsibility for your own misery and stick with it if you like the attention it brings. Or, of course, make some happiness for yourself.

Amazing what you resources you'll find if you start having a real good look inside yourself - and you'll realise what a waste of breath your excuses to yourself have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:45 AM

Wise words, Trevor my friend- you just summed up my life in two and a half paragraphs...

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM

Don't understand why you would stay married to someone who isn't interested in you as a woman, when you obviously need someone to be interested in you as a woman. As to being the best of friends, friends don't need to keep secrets from one another. As it stands, you don't know how your husband feels about this, and don't seem to care--you get what you want--You said that you " would probably just end up in another stagnant marriage." There is only one person to blame if that happens, and that is yourself--Why are you married, why did you marry, why even think about marriage, if you are unwilling to make and keep the committments?

I have been around the block a few times, and seen a few like you on the trip--sooner or later, the reckoning comes, and it generally is pretty unpleasant--

Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
From: Mudshark1
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 05:36 PM

Hey,Guest mlc and Lost in America, Thanks for your thoughts. I bet there are many out there that don'y have the balls to admit what we all are saying.We all got tricked by false promises by our spouses. It isn,t right because I know I'm real and giving. I would die for the right woman who could just be who they say they are and don't lie about it years later with kids as their sheild. As for all the woman out there who think I am women surfing...your full of it big time! You missed the whole point and are shallow as to not understand what I was talking about.We have heavy crosses to bear with our wives who took advantage of us and the courts are to fault by not listening and giving us justice that we deserve in the divorce courts.If we hung on to our marriage for our kids we made a huge sacrifice.Most of the bad marriages have women hanging on to the sheild of guilt that they have bringing the kids into the picture.I hope you guys find happiness somehow through your music. But you deserve a woman who can work with you instead of against you. You desrve better and don't blame you if you find it.We are getting too old for this crap.Keep in touch guys. And by the way, my nickname was mudshark from the Frank Zappa days.I'm not trying to intimidate anyone.Please don'nt get on my name I get on yoursif you like!Lighten up for God Sakes