BS: New rules for the coming pandemic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

I have an appointment on Thursday at the surgery with the Practice Nurse to check my BP and have some blood tests.
They've got one of those daft touch-screen things where you check in. I shall feign idiocy and merely announce my arrival orally at the Receptionist's counter.
I'm not touching that thing - it's probably riddled with germs and they don't sanitise it after every patient do they?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:09 PM

Food distribution and keeping vital services running will be the main concern of government

You might have thought that, but this is the government that gave us Brexit you're talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

Steve, you are free from copyright breach on the song as a mnemonic hand-washing device; copyright expired in 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:34 PM

Phew, that's a relief, Maggie. I feel that you've just saved my life...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:48 PM

Well, Donuel, who knows whether H.sapiens managed to do away with the other species. And who knows whether those other species might not also have been vulnerable to Corona virus... As the virus apparently got to us from an animal source scarcely related to humans, I have a feeling that you are well wide of the mark, just as you are with your desire for a universal vaccine. One key to varying susceptibilities to pathogens is genetic variation, a characteristic with which humans are abundantly blessed. Thank God we're not all one clone, eh? I'd hate to think that I'd share any more of your characteristics than I absolutely had to...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:48 PM

what about "Germ Free Adolescents" by X-Ray Spex

that'll take about 3 minutes to sing..

as long as no copyright snitches are listening...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:18 PM

Just now, like within the last ten minutes, a regular Starbucks goer and a well known community member came up to me and said there were (large number over 1K) coronavirus deaths in WA state. I noted that he passed this off as a new fact. I asked him where he heard it at the same time as I did a search on the internet. He said he'd heard it on FOX (TV) news. I could not verify any of this and made sure he was aware. He was also conflating coronavirus with flu which people are doing because of the description of symptoms. But his blithe passing this off uncritically is a sign of the way things are going with people and the spread of factoids vis web. And he's not even Donuel. He asked me on a scale of 1 to 10 I how concerned was I. And I said for today I'm at 1. If I learn that anyone I know knows someone who's got the coronavirus (which is not the same thing as flu) I'll jump it to 2.5. If I hear that anyone in Alaska has been diagnosed, maybe a 2.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:32 PM

In UK news today, a passer-by found box loads of Syrian hamsters dumped over a hedge..

I wonder if the callous ex owner heard Syrian refugees might be corona carriers
and panicked...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:20 PM

Yesterday 37 infected, today as of 2pm 51 have tested positive out of 13,911

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:24 PM

Steve my species remark is just a passing thought in the WC scenario.
Yeah you'll say water closet and I say worst case. Absolutely no research went into my remark, but I'll bet a shilling others have.
You do have a searching mind, no doubt about that. How far down the rabbit hole we look is probably our main difference. You went places I didn't go and vice versa. You OK about the jokes? No harm intended.


In Washington State 8 deaths would statistically indicate ~1000 infections.
The viral bloom won't be worth chasing once it is everywhere

robo I knew you asked a casual rhetorical quetion :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:45 PM

No I'm not OK with your "jokes." And stick to astrophysics is my advice. And even then...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 06:54 PM

They were more rough than intended. I apologize for that.

What is Panic?

Panic is divesting
Panic is doing a bucket list
Panic is a Wall Street habit
Panic is an immobilizing depression...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:00 AM

A final cheerful thought before bedtime..

If as anticipated corona does cull a significant percentage
of our mudcat age demographic..

and our calendars become overbooked with funeral invites..

How sensible are funerals going to be
as very obvious potential situations for further disease spreading...???

Funerals over skype...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:12 AM

it would be absolute insanity to have a funeral for anyone known to have the virus. we really should know how and where cremation will take place and how bodies will be transported. as for ordinary funerals, probably no worse than going to other church services etc. people could be asked not to hug and kiss and to spread themselves apart. someone could be at door with lysol wipes for handles etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:08 AM

It never rains,but it pours.
Below was a concern even before the globalised virus hit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/policymakers-worry-china-drug-exports-088126
I wonder how long UK emergency stockpiles of essential pharmaceuticals will last?

I suspect the link below is a bit OTT but the questions raised are valid
I am not sure I believe the percentages quoted,it seems very high.
https://journal-neo.org/2020/02/25/globalization-and-our-precarious-medical-supply-chains/

It seems the holy grail of globalisation has a way of biting you on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:24 AM

The main thing in hand sanitizer is alcohol.

Such is the nature of the average ignoramus today. I went looking for hand sanitizer dispensers and found a 3 foam anti-bacterial bottles on the reduced shelf (my local small supermarket), bought two. Given the way the public react, why sell them cheap?

Then looked for the alcohol gel versions and drew a blank but there were plenty of surgical spirit bottles, and there are spray bottles on sale elsewhere. Bought 2.

Mind you, the antibacterial handwash I found was the last one. It is easier and cleaner than a bar of soap, so even though it won't kill a virus, it will give it a hard time.

There is an analogy when explaining plane crashes that describes multiple layers of protection that have holes in them, and in normality the next layer protects. But when the holes line up you have a problem.
Looking for holes we have: austerity, with economies over-leveraged, low interest rates to tackle a depression (still), we have Trump/Boris, we have uncontrolled fires, we have floods. Now COVID-19 is finding the weaknesses.................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:00 AM

I wonder if my spray cans of alcohol based electrical contact cleaner like servisol
are any use...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:05 AM

"it would be absolute insanity to have a funeral for anyone known to have the virus."

So what do we do, leave them lying around...?

Actually, I'll have to look up how long a corpse can still be infectious. Viruses can propagate only inside living cells as far as I know. Of course, the dead body will harbour viruses on its surface for a little while, I suppose. I'm off to check this out...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:25 AM

...Well my initial look-up was on funerals.org. They should know, one suspects... Bacteria and viruses that cause disease (as opposed to decomposers, which are a smell threat rather than a health threat) generally can't survive more than a few hours in a dead body (HIV may be a rare exception). When I come to put on my biologist hat and think about it, I'd say that most pathogens can thrive only at or near body temperature, and death shuts off that avenue of opportunity for them. And as, at least in the west, there's generally an interval of several days or weeks between death and the funeral, a funeral of a corona virus victim, sad though it would be, need not accumulate any further concerns. In m'humble, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM

Then there's that question I always ask meself at every funeral: are the brass 'andles recycled? Hmm, hard surfaces... the crem attendants must have to wash their hands after unscrewing them...but not simultaneously singing Happy Birthday in the circs...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:35 AM

Catching a disease from the corpse is not the problem with funerals. Rather, gathering together with much weeping and wailing and the resulting consoling hugs is the cause for concern during an epidemic.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:51 AM

Hahahaa Steve! They could sing, 'Abide With Me' but their poor hands would end up with dermatitis after being washed...and washed...and washed... for the duration of all five dreary, slow verses.
At the Norfolk & Norwich hospital last year, they actually had to use a meat refrigeration lorry parked outside the mortuary door in which to store all the accumulated corpses during the flu epidemic. There was an outcry at the indignity of it, but as you say, one can't leave bodies just lying around rotting slowly away.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:53 AM

I've just found out that the brass 'andles (and even gold teeth and other bionic bits, but not pacemakers) go into the cremation chamber. It's an interesting subject but I'm just off to find something to cheer meself back up...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:05 AM

The death rate globally is 3.4
I believe without adequate testing of the rate of actual infection is far too low, causing an appearence of a high death rate.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:22 AM

Staggered funerals could be the answer. Two or three minute time slots could allocated for paying respects. As the immediate family have finished, the out-of-town aunties/uncles/cousins could each take it in turn, followed by friends, neighbours, colleagues, etc. Queuing could be reduced by allowing small groups, who are already in direct contact with each other, to visit together and by strict control of the appointment times.

Consoling hugs would be virtual, via social media

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:09 AM

I'm hoping in the years of recovery post corona,
that his pandemic finally puts an end to things I've never liked..

Primarily hand shakes, social kissing, and boring expensive social gatherings..

My life already functions comfortably enough on self isolation...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

I've mentioned this before, but some years ago our local crem. held open days for people to come and see exactly how the procedure was carried out. They told us that any valuable metal (gold fillings, hip replacements etc) got melted during cremation and the resulting lumps were sold off to add to their income.
The coffins were burned to ashes, which struck me at the time as an awful waste.
I've chosen a nearby 'Bluebell Wood', created especially for natural burials without a coffin, where silver birch trees and bluebells are planted among the dead, with no memorials or gravestones.
I don't know how this would serve with Corona virus victims though.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM

I've read recently that one step further than woodland burials,
a new eco friendly trend trying to be established,
is processing human corpses for compost...

I'm quite interested...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:37 AM

we really should know how and where cremation will take place and how bodies will be transported

Easy! HERE YOU GO

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:57 AM

Pwaaaaahaaaahaaagh Mossback! Brilliant! I actually love the song from Spamalot, same scene but made into a musical:

"I am not yet dead, I can dance and I can sing.
I am not yet dead, I can do the Highland Fling.
I am not yet dead, no need to go to bed,
No need to call the doctor cos I'm NOT YET DEAD!"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 10:52 AM

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM

Just got home from the Dr's [routine appt]...

As you enter there is a big board notice stating if you have traveled abroad
or have symptoms

DON'T COME IN...

Yeah.. I'm sure we can trust folks in our town
to be intelligent, responsible, and considerate enough to comply...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:09 AM

Bacteria and viruses that cause disease (as opposed to decomposers, which are a smell threat rather than a health threat) generally can't survive more than a few hours in a dead body (HIV may be a rare exception)

The really significant exception is anthrax, where the spores can survive for decades.

It also doesn't help if your funeral customs involve the whole family chopping Grandma up to eat her brains.

Kuru

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:38 AM

Funerals:
The real danger is for hospital workers & undertakers. Mind you formaldehyde is not exactly benign itself, but it would kill off most pathogens in the deceased.

Crematory workers would be safe, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:45 AM

I'll ask again..

how effective is alcohol based electrical contact cleaner
as a hand wash and surface sanitiser...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:10 PM

If the alcohol (propanol?) is not too diluted and is used in sufficient quantities, it should work well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:16 PM

The safety data sheet for WD-40 electrical contact cleaner spray says, amongst other things, that it is extremely flammable and a skin irritant. Thorough washing with soap and water is recommended.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:19 PM

The WD40 version contains less than 20% propanol, so I'm not so sure that it's suitable.

You can't buy anti-bac wipes or Dettox (and similar) sprays round here today.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:25 PM

"Rubbing alcohol". I use it for art stuff. It also works great to remove Sharpie writing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:32 PM

Back when I had an old house and was trying to get a few more years out of the asphalt shingled roof I used a lot of black mammy on it and I was like a magnet for that stuff. After a lot of trial and error I found WD-40 to be the most effective hand cleaner to use after the tarring and, no lie, it left your hands feeling silky smooth. I can't attest to it's effectiveness as a germicide though.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:41 PM

maybe the excise duty on vodka will be dropped for the duration. Smirnoff is 50%alcohol. However 70% ethanol is reckoned to be best. Any higher percentage may evaporate before it can permeate through the cell wall and terminate the little beastie.
Many hand sanitizers contain up to 60%-95% ethanol or isopropyl alcohol

As of 4 March, a total of 16,659 people have been tested in the UK, of which 16,574 were confirmed negative. 85 were confirmed as positive.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:45 PM

d-5, s-1 autopost 3-4-20:

I hope everyone is happy and healthy on this great Spring day.
Its all sunshine warm with blooming cheery cherry trees and daffodils.

Love always,
Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

Just to clarify, the WD40 I referred to isn't the usual lubricant version but a special version for cleaning electrical contacts. Yep, propanol = rubbing alcohol. It does kill germs. I used it a lot for cleaning and sterilising harmonica parts from harps obtained from other people. The contact cleaner isn't pure propanol. It's got other stuff in it that might not be so desirable for killing germs on surfaces or skin.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

sorry the mood setting was set waay to high for the auto post 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:37 PM

Wife says all the anti bacteria soap has sold out in tesco...

I used to buy Tandy spray cans of contact cleaner.
One with added lube, the other without, so mostly alcohol..
I should have an old litre can of ethanol [or similar] somewhere in the house..

I now have cans of servisol super 10, but can't see contents listed on spray cans..


So basically, if we need to clean Dr's clinics and shop touch pads etc,
all we need is an aerosol of alcohol contact cleaner.. and a lighter...

Spectacular pocket sized flame thrower...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:41 PM

I panic bought half a dozen eggs this afternoon, even though I still had two left in a box. Call me Mr Selfish, but I'll not be deprived of my omelette...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:37 PM

"The World Health Organization announced Tuesday the global mortality rate from coronavirus was 3.4%. The death rate so far — which includes more than 3,000 deaths — is many times higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, which is 0.1%. WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that is at least partly because COVID-19 is a new disease, and no one has built up an immunity to it."

It could also be said that those that have the virus and show a mild reaction to it will not show on any statistics. This would skew the mortality rate and make it appear much higher than it is.

Time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:19 PM

According to its safety data sheet, Servisol Super10 doesn't seem to be alcohol based. Its application is as a lubricant and is a mixture of petroleum distillates. Repeated exposure may cause skin dryness or cracking.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:27 PM

Jack Campin said, "It also doesn't help if your funeral customs involve the whole family chopping Grandma up to eat her brains".

I was watching a recent episode of Trust Me I'm A Doctor and one of the doctors was test driving a powdered meal replacement/shake. In one scene there was an image of a few brands of shakes and one brand was Soylent.

If anyone is old enough to remember the film called Soylent Green then you would know why I was taken aback. Is this brand name a joke or do they not know what the ingredient supposedly was in Soylent Green?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:53 PM

Yorkshire ramps up the Covid-19 Threat Level...