BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 May 16 - 04:35 PM

"The ToI said the definitions had been dropped, but they are still there.
I was right."

Prove it. Second request today: show us the official, mainstream, current EU website that has the guidelines up there, stated to be official EU policy. Not just some antisemitism dot com website. Show us that it doesn't say that they don't count, and what's more, they never did. But let me save you the bother and put you out of your misery. You can't do it, Keith. You can make assertions that you can't qualify. You've been caught out, and this is all you can do. You think that denying it repeatedly will eventually make us too fed up to carry on, so your face will be saved. No such luck, Keith. You should know me by now. Your Wheatcroft moment was over two years ago and I am not going to let it go away. You're a laughing stock, Keith, and your problem is entirely of your own making.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 16 - 11:38 AM

Rag, it is not out of date.
As Steve pointed out, the EU organisations have evolved from EUMC to FRA to EPWG.
All have republished the criteria including in the last 3 years.

Steve, this is not "just some antisemitism dot com website."
This is the relevant EU website.
It is the site of the European Parliament Working Group On Anti Semitism.
It is their "WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM" and has been for eleven years.

It says "The purpose of this document is to provide a practical guide for identifying incidents, collecting data, and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism."
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

You, Richard and Rag claimed it had been dropped.
It clearly has not.
You tried to support your false claim with a Wiki page, and Rag and Richard with a 3 year old uncorroborated ToI report that it was being dropped, but it never was.

You called me "a joke on legs" for demonstrating the facts as they actually are.
I was right and you were all wrong.
What does that make you Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 16 - 02:48 PM

You are lying. You don't want to think the criteria have been dropped because you rather like them. So you make the seriously mistaken claim that they haven't been dropped. Well in a sense you're right. You can't drop something that was never adopted in the first place! 😂😂😂. You can't face the fact that you made a mistake so you're going to repeat the lie until kingdom come in the hope that it will eventually go away. I have challenged you to demonstrate that the criteria are current official EU policy. You can't, because they are not. Their appearance on some website or other is not evidence that they are official EU policy UNLESS THAT IS EXPRESSLY STATED, which it never is. I have challenged you to show that, despite all the reports, the criteria were never shelved (they were, by an official EU body as it happens, the FRA, in December 2013). I challenged you to demonstrate that the criteria were ever adopted at all as official EU policy. You can't, because they never were. We are not fools, Keith. Unlike you, we can check things out with our eyes open, not just looking for confirmation of our prejudices. You should be ashamed of yourself. And while I live and breathe and am allowed to post here, I'm not letting you get away with insulting us with your lies.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 16 - 03:06 PM

Their appearance on some website or other is not evidence that they are official EU policy

Yes it is.
Having been previously published by two previous EU bodies over the last eleven years, it is now published by "The EU Working Group On Anti Semitism."
An Eu body on an EU website.

Its stated purpose is "supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism."

Not theoretical. Not in any particular EU state or states.
There are no exclusions specified, so why do you claim it?

Answer, because you have been caught out, shown to be wrong and made to look silly.

And your silly attempts at ridicule have rebounded on your silly head because you were wrong and I was right.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 16 - 03:07 PM

Their appearance on some website or other is not evidence that they are official EU policy

Yes it is.
Having been previously published by two previous EU bodies over the last eleven years, it is now published by "The EU Working Group On Anti Semitism."
An Eu body on an EU website.

Its stated purpose is "supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism."

Not theoretical. Not in any particular EU state or states.
There are no exclusions specified, so why do you claim it?

Answer, because you have been caught out, shown to be wrong and made to look silly.

And your silly attempts at ridicule have rebounded on your silly head because you were wrong and I was right.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 16 - 04:20 PM

Bobad calls people Jew haters on this website. The posts are still there. Therefore being able to call people Jew haters is official Mudcat policy. Right, Keith? 😂

Now I asked you some questions. You haven't answered a single one. They're reiterated at 02.48 pm. It really should be very simple for you if you're so sure you're not lying. Fire away, Keith. Finish me off. Chapter and verse, please.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 May 16 - 05:44 AM

Therefore being able to call people Jew haters is official Mudcat policy. Right, Keith?

No Steve.
Anyone can post to Mudcat. It is an open forum.
You have to be accredited by EU to publish stuff on their pages.

The "WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM" is published on the site of the "European Parliament Working Group On Anti Semitism."

It says "The purpose of this document is to provide a practical guide for identifying incidents, collecting data, and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism."
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

There is no suggestion that it is not in force or not recognised by anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 May 16 - 06:02 AM

Duh !!

" There is no suggestion that it is not in force or not recognised by anyone"

Except that is EXACTLY what was reported in the Times of Israel in December 2013.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 16 - 06:08 AM

"WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM"
"Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."
Therefore, it is Antisemitic to accuse people who criticise Israel of Antisemitism - which is what Israel does and what you have done., making you and Israel..........!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 16 - 07:07 AM

Concerning a letter from the Simon Wiesenthal Center to Baroness Ashton. Paris, 6 November 2013. Taken from wiesenthal.com

In a letter to European Union Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Baroness Catherine Ashton of Upholland (pictured), the Simon Wiesenthal Centre's
Director for International Relations, Dr. Shim On Samuels, expressed shock, "To read on 'Electronic Intifada' website that the European Union's Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) – now renamed the Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) – 2004 'Working Definition of Anti-Semitism' has been removed from the Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) website."

The letter noted, "The BBC Trust, in addressing a complaint, had upheld the definition, in characterizing as anti-Semitic, a broadcaster's critique of comments on Israel made by a Member of the UK Parliament. The Trust has now, apparently, reversed its ruling following the Definition's removal, claiming:

'A press officer at the FRA has explained that this was a discussion paper and was never adopted by the EU as a working definition, although it has been on the FRA website until recently when it was removed during a clear-out of non-official documents. The link to the FRA site provided by the complainant in his appeal no longer works.'"

Samuels argued that:


— the EUMC carried the name 'European Union' in its title and all its published decisions are therefore official documents of the EU

— the FRA, as the successor to the EUMC, carries responsibility for the documents of its predecessor as part of its DNA"



The Centre therefore called on EU Baroness Ashton to:


— launch an investigation into the disappearance of the Working Definition and the coincidental change in the FRA website address

— return this important document to the current FRA website

— ensure that the appropriate EU bodies endorse the Working Definition in its entirety

Well, Keith, you can search the FRA website until you're blue in the face (the FRA, Keith - remember? - the official EU organisation that succeeded the body that drew up the document in the first place?) and you will not find the document. It was never restored, in spite of the pleas from the SWC. It's gone for good, Keith. It is the "official policy" of pro-Israel setups only. Denying as you do that it was discarded is a blatant lie. If it was never adopted as EU policy, and was cast aside by its own authors, you'd better look slightly differently at the places where you still find it. People like you who desperately want to cling to it. People who don't do enough googling and hope we won't notice. Of course you can find antisemitism-fighting websites that use it. They would, wouldn't they, knowing that it has a whiff, no matter how bogus, of EU officialdom about it. They can cite its source without telling us the inconvenient truth that its source discarded it years ago. Well, unless the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the Times Of Israel and Wikipedia are all deluded, of course. That is what's going on here, Keith. We know how much you love a document that prevents valid criticism of the Israeli regime. The trouble is, you love it so much that it's blinded you to the truth. Your behaviour in this thread, as with the Wheatcroft matter, has been shameful.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 May 16 - 10:12 AM

Rag,
Except that is EXACTLY what was reported in the Times of Israel in December 2013.

It said the definitions were "dropped" but as you have seen, they are not dropped.
They are still there on the EU website as they have been for eleven years!

Steve,
the official EU organisation that succeeded the body that drew up the document in the first place?) and you will not find the document. It was never restored, in spite of the pleas from the SWC. It's gone for good, Keith

But it is not "gone for good" Steve!
As I keep telling you, the "WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM" is now published on the pages of the "European Parliament Working Group On Anti Semitism."
Why would it need to be on the FRA site as well?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 May 16 - 10:47 AM

Whatever Keith

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 May 16 - 11:15 AM

Keith - If I was you I'd stop wasting time and energy fretting about all this arcane definitions bollox
and just accept the pragmatic use of the umbrella term 'racism';
and apply a bit of common sense if you think you know some jews who are genuinely being picked on and bullied...... 😣

Life can actually be a lot simpler and saner than you are making it for your self................

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 16 - 11:39 AM

"If I was you I'd stop wasting time and energy fretting about all this arcane definitions bollox"
When he has nothing else, no alternative - so take your pick
"Whatever" is as good a reply as any.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 May 16 - 11:54 AM

Pfr, I am just responding to Steve and Rag.
They raised the issue.
I was trying to discuss Labour's current problems.

Why did you single me out?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 May 16 - 11:57 AM

BBC 2 hours ago,

"A senior Labour activist who was suspended from the party over alleged anti-Semitic comments on Facebook has been reinstated.
Jackie Walker's suspension was lifted following an investigation, the party said.
The Kent activist and vice chair of the Momentum movement wrote about "the African holocaust" and Jews as "chief financiers of the slave trade". "

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 May 16 - 12:10 PM

Keith - why do you single yourself out...??? 🙄


You are the only one here we see teetering so far out on a precarious limb....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 16 - 12:31 PM

We have not raised an "issue." We have raised a factual point that is totally verifiable for all the world to see but which you can't bring yourself to accept. You have turned that simple and straightforward thing into an issue, not us!

"Why would it need to be on the FRA website as well?"

What a stupid thing to say. It WAS on the FRA website. Until 2013. Read my Wiesenthal piece. The Beeb invoked it. Then they went into reverse BECAUSE THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE FRA HAD REMOVED IT AND DISCARDED IT. The FRA did not remove it and discard it because it went up on somebody else's website. They removed it and discarded it because it was never an official EU document. They were having a clear-out. It's all there, from the horse's mouth, in that post. They could have referred the BBC to your other website, but they didn't. Why not? Because it was not an official document that they were able to refer the BBC to, and it never was, that's why not! Jesus, this is fun! If I ever decide to buy you something for your birthday I'll get you a framed copy. The frame will be rather ornate, consisting of lots of little pink elephants all holding each others' tails, all the way round the frame. Oh yes, I can see it now... 😂😂😂

I actually believe that I'm beginning to feel sorry for you....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 16 - 07:13 AM

Keith has done what Keith always does, uses partial quotes out of context, to blacken the name of Jackie Walker. Personally I think she was foolish to apply "holocaust" to any other event than The Holocaust. I hope she had her wrist slapped for that. She has a long history of fighting racism and is vehemently opposed to Israeli aggression towards Palestinians. Her point about perpetrators and victims was right on the money. Both she and her partner are of Jewish descent. Was she right about Jews and the slave trade? Either she was or she wasn't. I wouldn't have put things that way myself. Jews were involved in the slave trade. Not all Jews, and not all slave traders were Jews. Either we are allowed to talk about it or we are not. If we are, then Jews is the word we have to use. Taken in context, her remarks were, arguably, ill-advised. But they were not antisemitic, because she was not attacking Jews because they are Jews. Politicians need to have regard fo the potential outcome of their remarks. At present, Labour is under the spotlight apropos of alleged antisemitism. The real antisemites in our right-wing parties, in Israel and in the major religions must be laughing their socks off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 16 - 07:33 AM

Israeli aggression towards Palestinians

Actually it's "Palestinian" aggression towards Jews that the Israelis are defending themselves against. But you know that and, as usual, are perpetuating lies to demonize a country and it's people, as those of your ilk are wont to do.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 May 16 - 08:27 AM

"Actually it's "Palestinian" aggression towards Jews that the Israelis are defending themselves against"
Only if you ignore the massacres,, the land seizures, the attempts to create an apartheid State..... and all the other crimes that the U.S. has used its vetoes to protect them from standing trial for.   
The Palestinians are defending themselves froin 'The Israelis' not the Jews and only an Antisemite would suggest otherwise (according to the definition)
It is little wonder that some of Israel's opponent describe blame "the Jews" - that is who the Israelis blame for their crimes.
You won't respond to this (either of you) but it's fact nonetheless.
Silence is a plea of "guilty as charged" as far as I'm concerned.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 16 - 08:40 AM

Colonel Richard Kemp speaks truth to those who would demonize, slander and distort the truth about Israel in order to bring about her isolation and destroy her:

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 16 - 09:03 AM

A perfect example of how the press dupes the gullible into demonizing Israel - and the haters just lap it up and spew it out:

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 16 - 09:11 AM

Ah yes, Richard Kemp, Israel sycophant and well-known nut job. Hear what this fair- minded bloke says about women? Kemp is against women serving in the army's Infantry arm, stating that that they lack "ferocity, aggression and killer instinct." Well there's a man whose judgement we can trust! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 May 16 - 09:40 AM

This is Keith's thread about the UK Labour Party,.. not.. and repeat... not.. about Israel,
as he rightfully reminds us from time to time whenever he starts getting a bit uncomfortable.....


If Israel is so great, why is it such an apparently thuggish trouble maker, and why is it constantly stealing from and getting in fights with it's neighbours,
perpetually manipulating the truth and blaming everyone else for all the problems...???

If Israel was a family on a provincial UK Council Estate
the police would be regularly getting called out to have a word with them,
and the Housing Agency might be sending them warning letters about improving their behaviour or risk serious consequences...


My mrs works with such dysfunctional anti-social families and knows how utterly soul destroying her working week can be... 😫

She especially feels the despairing futility and helplessness of the children of these families.....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 16 - 01:25 PM

Vice President of the NUS, Richard Brooks, confirmed that the organisation subscribes to EUMC's (European Union Monitoring Centre) definition of anti-Semitism, which specifically says "making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media" is anti-Semitic.

The Tab

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Partym
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 16 - 04:54 PM

Do keep up, Bobad old bean. There has been no EUMC for nine years. And the guidelines were scrapped three years ago. You're already a troll, an extremely dishonest person and a laughing stock. Try not to make it worse for yourself. Read the thread. As for the NUS, they are just as much all over the place as they were when I was a member forty years ago. By the way, tell us what the NUS president thinks as well as the vice-president. We do like balance, you know. 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 16 - 06:41 PM

This is what the left has been reduced to -- choosing a leader whose antisemitism is covered only by the thinnest veil ever invented.

Last month, amid ongoing anti-Semitism row in British party, Israel's opposition head wrote a letter urging its leaders to visit Holocaust memorial; Corbyn has not replied

TOI

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 May 16 - 07:14 PM

Yeah.. The fantastical 'let's pretend we're real influential grown ups' world of student Union politics..!!!

This is getting so desperate Bob & Keith will soon be quoting the stance of Primary school Children's Councils on anti-semitism..... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 16 - 07:15 PM

Well, anonymous Guest-troll aka "bobad," I'm a person of the left and I've been to several Holocaust memorials. I shed tears in the Holocaust museum in Prague as I
read as many of the 80,000 names on the walls as I could. We weren't allowed to take pictures but I do have photos of the Jewish cemetery close by. I could send you some. I suppose it's antisemitic to decline an invite to a Holocaust memorial. Is that what you're saying? Yes or no will do!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 May 16 - 07:23 PM

So Corbyn is a very wicked devil of a man now because he hasn't yet replied to an invite...!!!??..


f@ck me that's pathetically desperate...!!!!!


Yeah.. he's up to his neck in elections and fending off malicious attacks, let alone all the usual day to day business of running the opposition party..

.. yet he'a swine now for not dropping everything to fly half way round the world just to attend a symbolic PR photo opportunity...???? 😣

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: DMcG
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:43 AM

It' is also worth remembering that while there were about 6million Jews killed in the Holocaust, there were about 5 million non-Jews. My sister lives near Bergen-Belson and I have spent many hours there reflecting on what happened. But it saddens me that you have to leave the site and walk off down a path into a separate area to find the memorial to all the Soviet prisoners killed there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 16 - 04:09 AM

"!A perfect example of how the press dupes the gullible!"
Quite agree Bobad; that's truely appalling.
How dare the Independent forget to mention that there are between 500 and 700 Palestinian children in military custody at the present time.
That's the press for you!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 04:32 AM

If some people at or near the top of FRA sought to suppress the definitions of anti-semitism, perhaps because of some personal agenda, they did not succeed.

As soon as they took it it down, the European Parliament Working Group on Anti-Semitism put it back on the EU site. It is more their remit anyway.

So in the eleven years since the definitions were formulated, for how many days have they been absent from EU pages?

Keith has done what Keith always does, uses partial quotes out of context, to blacken the name of Jackie Walker.

Another false accusation Steve.
I just pasted the first 3 sentences of the BBC report.

"A senior Labour activist who was suspended from the party over alleged anti-Semitic comments on Facebook has been reinstated.
Jackie Walker's suspension was lifted following an investigation, the party said.
The Kent activist and vice chair of the Momentum movement wrote about "the African holocaust" and Jews as "chief financiers of the slave trade". "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-36405130

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 05:39 AM

First two sentences of Indy report,

"A senior Momentum organiser has been readmitted to the Labour party following her suspension earlier this month for saying Jewish people were the "chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade".

In a Facebook post about the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Jackie Walker, the vice-chair of the left-wing Labour Party-linked movement, wrote: "I'm sure you know, millions more Africans were killed in the African Holocaust and their oppression continues today on a global scale in a way it doesn't for Jews...and many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade which is of course why there were so many early synagogues in the Caribbean. "

Final two sentences,
"Jonathan Sacerdoti, of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, said: "If the Labour Party has truly readmitted a member who publicly subscribes to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories of Jews financing and causing the slave trade, their ongoing inquiry into anti-Semitism can barely be taken seriously."

He added that for the Labour Party to readmit people who spread "malicious myths" about Jews "tells us that anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is becoming institutional"."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-semitism-row-momentum-organiser-jackie-walker-readmitted-to-labour-party-following-racism-a7053966.html

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 06:44 AM

The BBC report included the transcript from Facebook, which contained her whole sentence. There was no bold emphasis of any words. Here's what she actually wrote:

..and many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade which is of course why there were so many early synagogues in the Caribbean.

Until I dragged that out of you by challenging your partial quoting, here's what you said she said, and you put it in quotes:
.
...wrote about "the African holocaust" and Jews as "chief financiers of the slave trade". "

The BBC was honest and neutral enough to follow its journalistic introduction with the full transcript. You were not. In spite of the fact that you left out the bit about sugar, and in spite of the fact that she didn't just say "Jews," and in spite of the fact that there was no bold emphasis in her remarks, you chose to convey to us with speech marks that you were quoting verbatim. You provided no link for us to check your quote. But I don't trust you, so I went to the trouble. It's quite clear that you were determined to tar Ms Walker with the antisemite brush.

"If some people at or near the top of FRA sought to suppress the definitions of anti-semitism, perhaps because of some personal agenda, they did not succeed."

A ridiculous accusation and a totally unjustified smear. If you have any evidence whatsoever for this, let's be having it. Are there no lengths you'll go to to save your miserable skin?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 May 16 - 06:57 AM

Doubt it Steve, I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 07:55 AM

JEWS !!!!!....

Off you go then bob 'n' keith...

There's a big bold statement for you to do your best to insinuate antisemitic intent... 🙄


Here's a helpful hint... I will definitely vote Labour.....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:00 AM

It was not partial quoting Steve.
It was the first three sentences of the BBC report.
I highlighted the bit that was the most blatantly anti-semitic slur, that the Jews were responsible for the slave trade by being its "chief financiers."

I only suggested a possible motive for individuals within FRA seeking to suppress the definitions.
Neither of us can say if it was a personal agenda or what that might be.
The fact remains that it is still on the EU site on the more relevant pages of the EPWG.

It has not been "dropped" just moved.
You were all wrong about that.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:16 AM

"It was the first three sentences of the BBC report."
""Jonathan Sacerdoti, of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, said: "If the Labour Party has truly readmitted a member ....!

Some of the facts Keith conveniently ignored in his selection of evidence for Antisemitism in the Lablor Party - the main one being that the evidnce is coming directly from pro-Israel activists.

But Sacerdoti is exactly the opposite of a disinterested 'expert' voice on the ongoing violence. Just two years ago he was Director of Public Affairs for the Zionist Federation, perhaps the loudest and most shrill pro-Israel lobby group in the UK.

The day after Israel killed nine activists on the Mavi Marmara flotilla, he appeared defending that attack on Al Jazeera and on Sky News. In August 2011 he spoke at a pro-Israel rally in Trafalgar Square organised by the British Israel Coalition and supported by the Israeli government-linked StandWithUs.

On 6 July 2010 he met Israeli President Shimon Peres and uploaded an entire album on to Flickr documenting the occasion. He captioned a photo of him shaking hands with Peres,'Jonathan Sacerdoti, of Her Majesty's Secret Service'.

Sacerdoti has worked with Brenner to make a 'Buy Israeli Goods Day' video intended to counter the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement's call not to buy goods made in Israel or by companies complicit in the occupation. He was also elected to the Board of Deputies of British Jews' International Division, a committed pro-Israel body. In May 2010 Sacerdoti reportedly spoke publicly about 'ways to use Facebook, Twitter and other online resources to advocate for Israel' at a Zionist Federation Israel advocacy event called 'Talk for Israel'.
It is clear that Sacerdoti is a committed pro-Israel activist. But viewers were given a distorted impression about his background by BBC news.
Who is Jonathan Sacradoti

A pretty obvious propaganda plot, I'd say.
BBC fesses up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:23 AM

But you thought you'd go ahead with the smear anyway. Don't say things you can't back up. You won't get away with it here. You have tried to get us to pass a judgement on Ms Walker that the Labour Party doesn't agree with. You did it by using the eye-catching BBC top line only and failed to move down to the relevant details, unlike the BBC report. Why did you do that? Because the relevant details, contained in the whole of her comment, severely water down the criticism, and, naturally, that doesn't suit your case. You'd rather like the Labour Party to be riddled with antisemites, wouldn't you? Well tough luck. It isn't. She did not say, as yiu claim, that "the Jews were responsible for the slave trade." Do you think we can't read?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:39 AM

Sadiq Khan said Corbyn was ignoring Labour antisemitism.

And, "The (Labour Party)NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. Anti-Semitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:48 AM

Hands up in the air anyone who wants to join in creating such an oppressive climate of fear within the UK Labour Party
that not a single member or voter will ever dare utter another sentence including the words Israel, Jew, or any variant thereof, ever, ever, again... 🤐

.. except for the nice Labour Party supporters already on our side who absolutely adore Israel...

Three cheers for Israel... hip hip... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:50 AM

This is not about Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 09:59 AM

Keith - that's priceless... I wish I could see your face while you're typing some of this... 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 16 - 10:02 AM

"This is not about Israel."
All of a sudden
Your quoting pro-Israeli spokesmen like Sacradoti makes it about Israel.
If the pro-Israeli propaganda machine has infiltrated institutions such as the BBC it is exactlyt about Israel - and the fact that you have refused to BBC confessions of pro-Israeli bias is indicative that you know it is about Israel
"Thread drift" is an old standby of your and it has never worked
Israel is now in the hands of an extreme right wing regime the like of which has not been seen since the end of WW2 - that is now being said by leading Israelis who are or have been part of that regime.
As a claimed supporter of the Jewish people, does that not worry you?
I don't really expect a response to this, but your silence is enough.
You have no interest in the Jewish people - your concern is for your right-wing friends in Israel.
Your running-mate, Bobad's loyalties are the same.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 10:44 AM

Bobad digs up mad Richard Kemp and Keith digs up arch-Zionist Sacerdoti. With friends like those...😂

I suggest a good read of this link provided by Keith.

"The (Labour Party)NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. Anti-Semitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

The report goes into detail about Labour's concerns over antisemitism and details current actions on the matter. I actually think that, compared to other major organisations, including the other political parties and big religions, what Labour is doing to combat antisemitism is a shining example to the rest of them. You wouldn't glean that from Keith's single negative soundbite quote from the report, above, would you? There's a rancid stink of hypocrisy around here.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 01:47 PM

Your quoting pro-Israeli spokesmen like Sacradoti makes it about Israel.

It was the Indy that quoted him, but talking about anti-semitism.
What does it matter what his views on Israel are if that was not even being discussed?
It is about anti-semitism not Israel!

what Labour is doing to combat antisemitism is a shining example to the rest of them.

It has done nothing much so far, but if other parties do have any instances of anti-semitism they will know how not to deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 01:57 PM

Keith - oh.. I really gotta see the expression on your face while you're typing all that...

.. Which one of us would crack up giggling first...!!!??? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:12 PM

This really is not anything to do with Israel.
It is about Labour's problem with anti-semitism.