English Folk Music- A suspect medium?

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 08:35 AM

GUEST,DaveMc wrote: "My point is that Folk Music is certainly not discriminated against on grounds of it being too left wing. That may have happened in the dim and distant past but not for the last 20 years".

Maybe the issue here - as with a lot of things - is in definitions. 'Left wing' is often used as a fairly relative term and 'left vs right' is a fairly meaningless and antiquated way of looking at politics. A single axis approach really doesn't serve any political thinking too well.

The Political Compass site has a good/interesting page on UK political parties as they were in 2008 relative to where they were in previous years here.

A point lost on the BBC is that their take on cultural liberalism, which is presumably meant to be 'inclusive', can also be very excluding.

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: Santa
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 09:12 AM

I met folk music in primary school, but not in secondary. I got involved in clubs etc through the influence of protest songs, as heard on mainstream radio. Clubs rose in response to mass interest in this music. As the Vietnam War ended, there seemed rather less point to protest songs, so they died out. Then followed the mainstream success of folkrock, but as far as mainstream was concerned it was a fashion that flared (pun intentional) and died. With the dying of the Cold War, political songs became even more unfashionable. The clubs declined but went on, and as we can see today the audience reduced to a hard core of the older generation that is what remained from more popular days.

Was English folk music, in the traditional form, ever more than a thin stream in this more eclectic mix? Other strands came and went, so that at times a more generic "pop/folk music" was more common and popular, at times it was back to the ghetto. The leftwing involvement in "folk" was more prominent in the 50/60/70s, and no doubt lead to some disfavour from the establishment: but this must be seen alongside a general growth in anti-establishment feeling in the media and population. Folk music did not fade in popularity because it was seen as anti-establishment. It boomed and faded as various of the its strands came into and went out of fashion. One of which has to be its simple, acoustic roots in an amplified, sophisticated age. Perhaps the new singer-songwriters will successfully bring in the electronic age, or perhaps a new "punk folk" will emerge as society looks to a simpler approach to life. Wait and see, or get out and help, according to taste.

The more traditional songs are never going to be more than a minority interest, because the traditions are dead, or at least moribund, kept alive by enthusiasts as an amusement rather than by community involvement. Was this ever different? Did the Elizabethan English sing Chaucerian songs? Or the peasantry of Plantagenet times sing how times were so much better under Anglo-Saxon rule? Is the archetypal English folk song "When this old hat was new?" Ah, things were so much better when Ewan ran things....

Or not.

Which has drifted a bit, but "the establishment" is not going to approve of anti-establishment actions, be they only songs, and it is hardly intelligent to assume it ever will. Unless of course they are profitable....... As long as folk music is associated with political activism, there will be a cloud hanging over it in many minds - not just those within "the establishment" and their cronies. I think there is much more to English folk music than the political activism, but it is never going to be popular and accepted (whatever that exactly means) until it deals with popular issues in a popular manner. At the moment, this does not include leftwing diatribes, morris dancing, or bewailing your sad lovelife behind an acoustic guitar. English folk music has gone from a curiosity to a popular movement to an object of public ridicule.

Those of us who do appreciate it will just have to carry on enjoying ourselves, to those performers prepared to dedicate their lives to such.

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 10:43 AM

I think there is much more to English folk music than the political activism

Of course. The tunes might provide an easy way to look at this. I mostly play Irish but the sae would apply with English music. If you are in the middle of a tune session and it's going well, quite possibly the only place your head is is in some sort of common effort of playing for the music. I don't dance but look round group of people just dancing and spot happy faces. Our collections of traditional music can take us in completely different directions to I suppose cares of the world.

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 12:24 PM

Santa wrote: "I think there is much more to English folk music than the political activism, but it is never going to be popular and accepted (whatever that exactly means) until it deals with popular issues in a popular manner. At the moment, this does not include leftwing diatribes, morris dancing, or bewailing your sad lovelife behind an acoustic guitar. English folk music has gone from a curiosity to a popular movement to an object of public ridicule".

But what do people actually want out of any kind of music in the first place these days? If you look around at music that is commercially popular - not necessarily a guarantee of quality but some kind of indicator about what people are interested in - you'll see that most people aren't really interested in things that make them think too much. I don't think people, generally, actually want to deal with popular issues, at least not on any kind regular basis.

I think most people now see music as purely a backdrop for getting wasted and escaping from real-life rather than as a lens or a mirror for it. 'Boy meets girl' still tends to be lyric du jour, whether it's the handsome shepherd who espies a bonny maid or a ho who likes the way I roll (or something).

I think any kind of music - perhaps barring some forms of rap - that deals with issues or politics is always going to be a niche market.

It's also a bit odd to see a phrase like "your sad lovelife behind an acoustic guitar" given the massive success over people like James Blunt and David Gray over the last couple of years. I think generally people in general don't have that much of a beef with 'acoustica' - and, if anything, I think the majority of people actually define that as being 'folk' anyway. Maybe not Mikey Mudcat's view, but perhaps Joe Public's view.

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

you'll see that most people aren't really interested in things that make them think too much

But you could suggest the same about some things I go to that are folk music. I don't see much in the way of words to contemplate in this for example. I Instead, I can just get lost in it.

I'd still think than many of the public would think a few fiddlers, flutes, etc. a bit odd. I could suggest that fashion suggests it must be so.

Subject: RE: English Folk Music- A suspect medium?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 04:40 PM

"your sad lovelife behind an acoustic guitar"
here is a favorite failed lovelife of mine.