Rapid playing: Loss of control?

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Musket
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:10 AM

The older I get, the more I feel slower is good.

Whether this is musical appreciation or acceptance of getting older, I don't really know...

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:28 AM

"You use dots in a session??"

No worse than using words for singing (I don't normally do either, but I know lots of people who do)

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 08:27 AM

'No worse than using words for singing'??

I use words for singing [& for speaking,reading & writing as well], as my NVC's not the best!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 08:47 AM

Sorry, John. I forgot that you started this thread, so I'd need to spell everything out. Come to think of it, I don't always use words for singing, especially when doing skat. I don't normally rely on the written or printed word, especially in folk contexts. Is that why you were querying "dots" too, because you were understanding something different from the standard in this context.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:43 PM

There are musicians who play both fast and gorgeously--Doc Watson, for example--and I wish I could play as fast and as gorgeously. I've tried for years and I'll never be that good. Rather than disparage people who can do what I can't I've accepted that I'll never be a great flatpicker. (My fingerpicking, however, is excellent.)

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM

"Not holding dotted notes long enough"

"You use dots in a session??"


It was a joke (surely!?!)

I still take exception to John's use of the term 'dancing' when he means 'Morris Dancing', as if that's all there was.
Like the cleric on radio the other week who used the term Christian when (from the context) she meant Anglican.

If my calculations are anywhere near right.
His link played at about 85 bpm.
This Irish jig is being danced at about 116
This square dance at 124
These two clips of Playford dancing are about 120, which is the speed most clubs dance at nowadays.
However, this display team dancing is dancing at over 180, probably more like the speed Cecil Sharp had in mind when he revived the dances. Too fast for my taste/ability, but has a bit of life in it.

The speed needed depends on what you are doing in the beat. A smooth walk needs fastish music. Running, skipping. leaping, need different speeds.

I can't begin to estimate the correct speed for a Tango, vienese Waltz, Ballroom waltz or any other form of dance, but I'm sure they all have a range that is comfortable to those who know.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:15 PM

Dottiness is essential to Scots music: where would our strathspeys be without 'em?

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:44 PM

Which is why so many Scottish musicians over the past 30 years or so sound Irish. 'Atholl Highlanders', for instance, needs to be played briskly with a dotted rhythm (ie as a pipe march rather than a jig) otherwise the musicians start falling asleep.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 03:31 AM

'I still take exception to John's use of the term 'dancing' when he means 'Morris Dancing', as if that's all there was.

Like the cleric on radio the other week who used the term Christian when (from the context) she meant Anglican.'

I take exception to both of these statements.

Unless you're telepathic, you can't possibly glean from any of my posts on this thread that my concept of dance is morris only.

Secondly, your reference from radio implies that you think that Anglicans are not xtians

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 05:09 AM

"your reference from radio implies that you think that Anglicans are not xtians "

I don't know what Mo's denominational background is, but I know exactly what she means, and it's not what you infer, John. I didn't here the radio item she refers to, but there is an assumption among certain Anglicans that if you're not doing it the way they do (whatever that might be) you don't really count. That is not an attitude confined to the Church of England, but in a country with an established church, it becomes more noticeable.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 05:29 AM

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy - PM
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 10:16 AM

Here's an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_XuvjlKGA of the proper sort of timing for dancing

You said "the proper timing..for dancing", and the track was ONE KIND OF dance. (And I posted tracks for other kinds of dance - folk dance even, that have a different 'proper speed')
She said there are a certain number of practising Christians in the town and also referred to Christians doing certain things that Anglicans do and nonconformists don't.

In both cases I objected to a legitimate PART being quoted as if it were THE WHOLE. I am not objecting to the part.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: treewind
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 05:44 AM

For what it's worth, I read that the same way as Dave McK. i.e. the implication seemed to be that if you aren't Anglican you're not a Christian.

Also I have read through the whole thread and I don't see why Mr. Happy has to be so dismissive about Alan Day's comment, which was a constructive suggestion to help players to slow down. What's wrong (or off topic) about that?

Lighten up chaps, it's the season of goodwill - joy, health, love and peace to you all!

(off to celebrate the solstice tonight in Geldeston with Old Glory Molly. We like our music slow too!)

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 07:09 AM

treewind,

I suggest you read the underlined part of the post again



For what it's worth, I read that the same way as Dave McK. i.e. the implication seemed to be that if you aren't Anglican you're not a Christian.

& then you may notice it wasn't Dave McK


*********

Mo,

My link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_XuvjlKGA definitely isn't Morris dancing!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: treewind
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

I meant exactly what I said.

Earlier you wrote:
"your reference from radio implies that you think that Anglicans are not xtians"

It does not.

The person on the radio was allegedly saying Christians when she meant Anglicans, implying that Anglicans are the only Christians.
Mo's point is that Anglicans are not the only xtians.
That doesn't mean at all the same thing as "Anglicans are not xtians".
I know Mo and she's not the sort of person who would make such a controversial statement!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 04:55 PM

"Atholl Highlanders', for instance, needs to be played briskly with a dotted rhythm (ie as a pipe march rather than a jig) otherwise the musicians start falling asleep." (Dave McKenzie above)
Not much risk of folk falling asleep while dancing: we play it to dotted rhythm as part of a Military Two-step Set: quite tricky to get a' they dots in at dance speed! Different can o' haggis when played wi' dots!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 07:09 AM

John said "Mo,

My link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_XuvjlKGA definitely isn't Morris dancing"

Sorry, just shows how little I know about Morris - it IS a Morris tune, and I know there are solo Morris jigs.
Looking at again and thinking of the clogging Jim used to do, yes that's another dance form where slower than 'club speed' is essential.

So I apologise.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

A beautiful piece of Irish dancing! Perfect timing and control.

Not quite sure how you define "a Morris Tune" as some of the tunes that are used for Morris dancing are used for other sorts of dancing or even pipe marches and songs: e.g. the tune I know as "Wha wadna fecht for Chairlie", and might be used in a Gay Gordons set or sung, is pretty much the same tune as I've often heard Morris teams use (tho' I think it goes by another name S of the Border). And there are many other examples of tunes that have crossed the Irish Sea and have different names either side of it, or the bigger "pond". Unless a tune was written specifically for a Morris team to dance to, it probably shouldn't be called "a Morris tune".

Apologies for thread drift!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 08:06 PM

Loss of control is one possibility---loss of audience is another.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Mar 25 - 09:40 PM

Rapid playing: total control!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pLtmUEBE_M

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Mar 25 - 02:38 PM

This is a nice example of playing sillybuggers with speed. Dance starts at 1:20.

Félöves

They spin round fast to the slow music and stand still stamping to the fast music. As I first met with it in Moldavia, it was smaller circles spinning way faster so you were fighting centrifugal force, and the tempo contrast was greater.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Mar 25 - 08:11 PM

The title means "belt dance" - the arms linked behind their backs act as a belt and they should be spinning so fast that you really have to hold on tight to stop the ring breaking open. But the rotation speed doesn't come from the music, you just take longer steps. The fast stamps in the non-rotating bit are rather like rapper.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Mar 25 - 11:38 AM

Rapid playing: total control!

no dancers fall over!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pLtmUEBE_M