Do you tell someone to shut up?

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: sarah the queen
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 08:51 AM

WHAT IN TARNATION IS THIS CRAP? WHAT ARE ALL YA'LL DUMB BUTS GRIPING ABOUT? THIS IS A GAY WEBSITE!!! SHUTUP!!!

!@#$%$%^&&%#@!!@#@$%$$#

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 09:13 AM

Rick,

I wish I was joking. My concern is that if nobody says anything to him that he will continue to come back. I don't think it's my place to say anything, but I will if I have to. I should prepare myself by finding information on another Sunday night jam in the area that may be more along his musical style. Oh yeah, and tell him to leave the drum machine at home.

Sarah, welcome, I often feel the same way myself, but stick around, it is often very interesting, informative and amusing, and I believe for the most part heterosexual (not that there's anything wrong with the other).

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Grubby
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 10:25 PM

It's never ceases to amaze me in sessions when a stranger comes up and asks if he/she can have a go on your bodhran.They never seem to ask if they can have a go on your fiddle or flute etc. I suspect they thing the bodhran is pretty simple to play and they will master it straight away.There are people that play the bodhran and bodhran beaters a big bloody difference. I learnt a valuable lesson some time back, I use to make bodhrans and sell them locally. The next thing I knew our local session was chock full of new bodhran players all playing bodhrans made by me and all going for the world record of beating the goatskin at their first attempt. Well as you can imagine this didn't go down to well with the other session players so we needed to do a bit of bodhran culling to return things to a more managable situation.As a result of all this my little bodhran making busines was shelved. I still get requests from people to make them a bodhran, but I am not game to do it the nerve has gone. I've been through one epidemic not going through another. But a good bodhran player is great for a session and a good player knows when to shut up. As with all aspects of life there are time when we have to be told things.So I suggest he is told in the correct way and he will learn from it.We don't want you to go away we just don't want you to play :) Spot on with your quote Mikal "The best players are hardly there, just a heartbeat in the background most of the time."

Grubby

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM

The fella with a drum machine? In principle that's easy enough - remind him it's a live music session. If he turns it on stop playing, and get a drink.

With someone playing a real instrument it's a bit different. The people I play with have no problem telling me if I'm playing too loud or too fast, and I do the same for them. But then we know each other.

I know that when I'm in a strange session I try to move in tactfully, and I think it's fair enough to expect that other people should do the same. But being brash is the way some people deal with being shy, and you've got to let strangers feel they are welcome. And often the worst offenders aren't drunks who can't play,it's people who can play very well, but haven't learnt to listen to other people yet.

As for bodhrans not fitting in other types of music and so forth - I can't go with the idea that you look at an instrument, and decide that it doesn't fit in. As someone just said, where'd Irish music be if it kept out bouzoukis and banjos? I think bluegrass might be greatly improved sometimes by the occasional bodhran or bouzouki or pipes. (Well it sounds prettty good when Irish sessions start playing American tunes. And "Turkey in the Straw" is in Captain O'Neill's BOOK).

It's how you play it that matters. The drum we call the bodhran is the simplest and most widely spread one there is - North Africa, Native American, India... It can be played in all kinds of ways. Some of them people are only starting to learn. But the critial thing is that it goes under the music, not on top of it, and follows the rhthym, rather than leading it.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Herge
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 08:19 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm not anti bodhran but I do think people think its the easiest instrument to learn and also cheep to buy. It seems to those interested the easiest way of entering the close knit world of the 'session' without spending over 3 years learning an instrument and getting up to session speed. I have also seen it used as a stepping stone to other instruments - once the player gets into the scene, picks up the tunes in his/her head and then goes on to play them on whistle or other instrument. I dont think I will say anything and just be gratefull that the next generation is taking an interest in the music. Hopefully he will settle down as he begins to understand the secret, complex and unwritten rules of the 'session' Herge

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Peg
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM

hey Grubby! Would you consider making a boudhran for an experienced (trained even!) boudhran player? I am in the market for a new one... i can get references for you if you need to know my level of courtesy, sense of rhythm, etc.

email me back if you want... [e-mail]

peg

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 04:48 PM

Liz the Squeak,

I just went to an 'Oscar Brand' house concert. There was a small baby there which started to make a little fuss.
As the father was about to take him outside Oscar says "Don't take the baby out just because it's crying. I've raised four of them and every time I sang, they all cried, - IN HARMONY"

Bert.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowanybetter
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 06:16 PM

I was blessed with a teacher who crammed etiquitte down my throat, and further blessed with friends who let me know with different degrees (or absences) of tact. It sometimes hurt my feelings (even drummers have feelings), but I'm a much better player for it. You might want to suggest to the drummer in question, if he has the table-leg looking warclub tipper that comes with most tourist bodhrans that he get a lighter stick. It will also help his overall development. (If he actually wants to develop!)I gave one kid a month's worth of free lessons on the condition that he not bring his drum to our session until he learned to play it. He eventually realized that he wasn't going to master it overnight and gave up, but the end result was the same for us. I also have no problem with alluding to the one bodhran at a time rule of thumb and sometimes throw out the hint that two fiddles are called "harmony" whereas two bodhrans are "an infernal racket". It is also important to not throw stones from a glass house. If you're a box player who can play quietly but doesn't, your opinion isn't going to carry a whole lot of weight! Finally, suggest some good CDs to listen to to learn how a bodhran is supposed to sound. A few good examples; Arcady, Dedannan, Nomos (Frank tears his drum up but at an appropriate level), Dervish (very subtle), Colm Murphy's compilation_An Bodhran_. The last is a CD specifically intended to showcase Colm's bodhran playing and even at that is not dominating the melody players. We're a hated breed thus have a responsibility to not make the bodhran hater in question right. Slan, Rich

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 09:35 PM

Peace on earth to men of good will. I liked the statement about Graciusness and generousity Yay WyoWoman!!!!.. Hard to pull off but very much worth the effort.! All the best, Guy

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: alison
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 04:33 AM

When I teach bodhran workshops I always include a section on etiquette... but the same goes for any instrument or voice... if you can't hear whoever is singing / playing lead- then you are too loud.

a towel works well to dampen the noise..... also leather ended tippers are great for playing quietly..... as I have said before a friend of mine made herself one using a piece of dowling. she cut the fingers off a pair of womens leather gloves, stuffed them with kapok and superglued them to the ends of the stick.... voila!

people do think the bodhran is an easy instrument to play - it is certainly easy to get a noise out of...... but "playing" takes practice....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 05:01 AM

I know I'm always plugging this record but the CD "Flatfish" by Flook! (Flook! Can you give me a free ticket to your next concert in the Surreal Kingdom for all these plugs...!)contains some of the very finest bodhran playing (John Joe Kelly) that I've ever heard, ranging from the ultra subtle to super dynamic but always highly tasteful. Also shows how a bodhran and guitar (Ed Boyd) can work together brilliantly as a powerhouse rhythm unit. I'd also fully endorse bodhranplayers list of fine players a couple of posts back.

mcmoo(whoownsabodhranlikeeverybodyelsebutrarelyadmitstoit)

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: AndyG
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 06:40 AM

I totally endorse mcmoo's comments about Joe Kelly. My jaw hit the floor when I first saw/heard him. His playing is incredibly innovative and fluent in any style. Absolute magic to listen to (and watch).

I get to see them again on March 7th, Yay!

AndyG
who plays bodhran whilst suffering all the faults of a p'd up and p'd off player

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 06:00 PM

I went away from this thread last night and practiced drumming on my Chinese steamer (it has Stomp type possibilities, but I can't find a decent tipper in my kitchen yet). Apart from the obvious advice not to, where would I find a source on how to play bodhran? I've had this thing about drumming since being kicked out of the percussion band at age eight. (There was a graphic score, and we had to play a rhythm like drum, tambourine, tambourine, cymbal, three times then drum, tamb, tamb, triangle. I couldn't make the drum rhythm and got demoted to triangle. I was drumming to a different march.) Most of the time, it lies quiescent, but it's back. Tell me not to do it!

Penny

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Thomas Covenant
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 11:24 PM

I am minded here of the immortal Séamus Ennis who once opined that the only true way to play a bodhrán is with a penknife

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: alison
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:48 AM

Penny.. send me your email... and I'll give you the sheet I use to teach beginners, (it has some info for what else to get to help you go on from the basics)

slainte

alison [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: AndyG
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 10:14 AM

Penny,

Two useful web sites:
Roundstone Musical Instruments Ltd.
The Bodhrán Page

Both carry basic tutorials.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 11:24 AM

A number of points : firstly, a drum is a drum and can be used for many types of music - it depends on how it's played. For example, I used to use one very effectively for Kentucky Running Set with more syncopation than would be appropriate for Irish. Secondly, drummers are musicians - just look at Evelyn Glennie, and Easy Club's Jim Sutherland who played cittern as well as bodhran and wrote some great tunes. Personally, I would never join in with a musician on stage unless specifically invited to so. I'm even reluctant to join in with chorus songs until the singer has indicated that they want people to participate.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:17 PM

You mentioned two drummers that are musicians , some are no, I suggest that drummers be familiar with the tune not just play rhythym patterns, and ask first and then play quietly, it is after all an accompanying instrument, and we can all play the tunes, without a drummer, drummers are not a necessity, a good one can lift the music an insensitve can feck it up

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM

The difference between a bendir and a bodhran is that the bendir player knows what they're doing.

I have heard John-Joe Kelly live a couple of times. Insufferable self-centred anti-musical showoff. I've avoided anything where he's on the bill ever since.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:22 PM

YES - Always


To the these ditties are always appropriate:
   with raised elbows to the offender.

Thank God she finally shut up,
She’s always fucking bitchin,
So drink your beer, get out of here,
And get back in the kitchen.

Or a current one I keep and recorded and always waiting on que.


You talk too much
You worry me to death
You talk too much
You even worry my pet

Sincerly,
Gargoyle

An elbow point always keeps it friendly.
You just talk
Talk too much

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:27 PM

Completely agree, Jack. I react to him, and a few others like him, exactly as you do. It's very clever to be able to make the thing sound like water glugging out of a bottle, but the fatal sin of every bodhran specialist I've ever heard is to make themselves the point of the music. Which they are not. A bodhran owner is trying to add something to an Irish tune that is already there in the tune and which doesn't need adding to.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:54 PM

Why don't people ever refresh 11 year dead NICE threads? (Shutting up.)

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 08:40 PM

Good for you, Jeri.

Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 11:30 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSALQn0u9z4